Support NeoGAF

[Psykoboy2]

My respect to them for doing this.

In the overall sense of things, however, I wonder how this affects the Child's Play charity drive. Will people/companies regard that as something different? Does support of that include the support of PA?

Probably not, I would guess, since all proceeds go to the charity, itself, but it still has ties to PA.

 

[Cyrix]

Stepped up in what way?

How about a public statement on PA's front page about how Mikes views are not the views of PA as an entity or anyone who works there but himself.

Or something along those lines.

 

[aeolist]

I'm not defending anything Mike said on Twitter or elsewhere, but I have a feeling this is a pretty disingenuous framing of that situation. What's the context for those statements?

it was literally just someone asking him on twitter how it feels to support rape culture, and mike responding with "pretty good"

i'm sure he was trying to be funny or something? but it was still hilariously shitty

 

[Fehyd]

"Any titillation gets called out as sexist or misogynistic, and involve any antagonist race aside from Anglo-Saxon and you’re called a racist. It’s gone too far and when will it all end?"

I seriously cannot believe this is a for real, approved panel for PAX Australia. What the fuck?

Remember all the backlash about killing modern-day central american pirates in Uncharted: Drakes Fortune because they were brown?

The backlash over killing africans in Africa in Resident Evil 5? I believe N'gai wrote an article calling the game racist.

Its really not that far off the mark.

 

[AppleSmack]

I find it funny they realize they won't be missed and are doing this anyway. It is quite stupid to damage your business for things nobody will remember a week from now.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Just so nobody continues to confuse the two:

Mike, the jerky guy in this situation, is the tall, lanky, lispy one who draws all the comics.

Jerry is the shorter, bald guy who writes most of their front page posts. Jerry is generally a pretty cool dude IMO. Mike is always having conflicts.

 

[dave is ok]

it was literally just someone asking him on twitter how it feels to support rape culture, and mike responding with "pretty good"

i'm sure he was trying to be funny or something? but it was still hilariously shitty

The comic wasn't supporting rape culture at all - which is probably why he said it.

For them to even mention the dickwolves thing as a negative towards PA is kind of a mark against Fullbright in my opinion. The people freaking out about that strip are the only ones who should be mentioned in a negative light. It was a joke, it passed the funny test - and it wasn't even about rape so much as it was about quest design in MMOs.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

How about a public statement on PA's front page about how Mikes views are not the views of PA as an entity or anyone who works there but himself.

Or something along those lines.

Problem is, since he's one half of the head of the institution that statement still won't carry much weight. He and Jerry benefit the most of anything that happens at the company.

 

[Sqorgar]

gaming might be better in general but i still have the obligation to demand more, because while things have gotten better for LGBT rights we're still not good enough.

I think you have an obligation to realize that gaming, as a whole, is trying and progressing on this front. I think that the general acknowledgement of Gabe's comments as inappropriate and offensive is all you really need without praising people who back out of PAX and expecting more extreme behavior from others.

Gabe was wrong and the industry has acknowledged that. Any further action just serves to punish Gabe for being wrong rather than working towards an more inclusive future. Seeking to hurt those you disagree with is not the way to make these issues more palatable to the masses.

i think it's totally appropriate to boycott PAX because gabe would benefit from it directly, the same way i thought boycotting shadow complex as a result of OSC's homophobia was good, or the way i think people should boycott dragoncon since a proven pedophile makes money from it

Again, this is about punishment, not justice. People are so incensed at Orson Scott Card's comments that they want to punish anyone willing to do business with him. That not about gay marriage. That's petty and superficial. Card is wrong and offensively so, but hiring a writer who is good at writing doesn't make the creators of Shadow Complex into similar monsters.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I understand some of the criticisms about PA, but others just fell into stupid internet rage. If you have a problem with a panel, just don't go. If you feel their arguments are moronic without even attending it, then you're just falling into some censoring stance.

 

[pa22word]

The backlash over killing africans in Africa in Resident Evil 5? I believe N'gai wrote an article calling the game racist.

Na, pretty sure he just said that the trailer for the game at E3 2k....7(?) contained what might be construed traditionally as racist imagery. Pretty sure he went out of his way to say that the game probably wasn't racist, and that the imagery was most likely used unintentionally.

 

[aeolist]

Remember all the backlash about killing modern-day central american pirates in Uncharted: Drakes Fortune because they were brown?

The backlash over killing africans in Africa in Resident Evil 5? I believe N'gai wrote an article calling the game racist.

Its really not that far off the mark.

you can't pretend that making an action game centered around a huge burly white dude mowing down hordes of black people, including sections with the enemies dressed as stereotypical tribesmen in grass skirts with spears and shields and one with a bunch of them dragging off a screaming white woman, isn't full of racist imagery

that it was set in africa only adds colonialism to the stack of issues it deals with horribly

 

[AlexMogil]

How can I support this company

 

[CoachKevin]

They don't have a pre order page for the game do they?

 

[freddy]

Just so nobody continues to confuse the two:

Mike, the jerky guy in this situation, is the tall, lanky, lispy one who draws all the comics.

Don't forget he was bullied a child. He mentions it a lot after he says ignorant shit.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Don't forget he was bullied a child. He mentions it a lot after he says ignorant shit.

Yes. It's his equivalent of the 'race card'. He's leans on it excessively.

 

[Kifimbo]

I find it funny they realize they won't be missed and are doing this anyway. It is quite stupid to damage your business for things nobody will remember a week from now.

They are doing it for themselves. Read the whole thing...

But this is not something that we’re doing for practical reasons.

We are a four-person team. Two of us are women and one of us is gay. Gone Home deals in part with LGBT issues. This stuff is important to us, on a lot of different levels. And Penny Arcade is not an entity that we feel welcomed by or comfortable operating alongside.

 

[doublenagger]

"Any titillation gets called out as sexist or misogynistic, and involve any antagonist race aside from Anglo-Saxon and you’re called a racist. It’s gone too far and when will it all end?"

I seriously cannot believe this is a for real, approved panel for PAX Australia. What the fuck?

Makes you feel uneasy or something? Why can't we let those people talk?

 

[Venfayth]

Makes you feel uneasy or something? Why can't we let those people talk?

Because PAX isn't a democracy and I don't see a reason to allow bigots the chance to parade their ignorance.

 

[Hero]

Good on Fullbright. PA has gone down the shitter in the past few years. I remember supporting them back when they had a Paypal button on the website and I kind of regret doing it in hindsight.

Their forum admin backed out on a promise he made for Child's Play until forum members started calling them on it.

Other forum members egged on a female forum member to meet up with a guy on Craigslist or some such alternative to explore sex that included cutting. She came back and said he cut her genitals and she might need to go to the hospital. Everyone that egged her on was just like, "Oh I'm sorry that sucks you should go to the hospital".

They have sections where you can talk about the daily strips but infract anyone with a negative opinion.

PA is pretty fucking awful. Community wise, at least.

With that said, I still think dickwolves wasn't that bad. The butt of the joke were the assholes who minimize rape/couldn't care less, not the actual victim. But if the PA guys were smart enough to explain that instead of getting offended that someone got the wrong idea, it would have ended better, so that's their own fault as well. But even then, they probably shouldn't have used that type of situation to get their point across anyway.

Good for Fullbright. Good to see people taking action instead of simply talking.

What the hell?

 

[anatomyhorror]

Everyone is way to sensitive now a days. People need to nut up.

 

[doublenagger]

bigots the chance to parade their ignorance.

But do you have proof for those accusations?

Seems like reactionary posts are norm these days.

 

[out0v0rder]

yes, make the gamers suffer. that will work.

 

[golem]

The latest incident just exacerbates the unease I feel about PA after the whole Kickstarter fiasco. They wont be getting my support anymore.

 

[Sqorgar]

Because PAX isn't a democracy and I don't see a reason to allow bigots the chance to parade their ignorance.

Could it be that the description was overly sensational in order to draw an audience into what would otherwise be a level headed and enlightening discussion?

 

[Metrotab]

Because PAX isn't a democracy and I don't see a reason to allow bigots the chance to parade their ignorance.

This is the kind of reaction people mean when they talk about "PC censorship". The correct way to deal with opposing viewpoints is to dismantle them afterwards, not silence them beforehand.

 

[aeolist]

I think you have an obligation to realize that gaming, as a whole, is trying and progressing on this front. I think that the general acknowledgement of Gabe's comments as inappropriate and offensive is all you really need without praising people who back out of PAX and expecting more extreme behavior from others.

Gabe was wrong and the industry has acknowledged that. Any further action just serves to punish Gabe for being wrong rather than working towards an more inclusive future. Seeking to hurt those you disagree with is not the way to make these issues more palatable to the masses.


Again, this is about punishment, not justice. People are so incensed at Orson Scott Card's comments that they want to punish anyone willing to do business with him. That not about gay marriage. That's petty and superficial. Card is wrong and offensively so, but hiring a writer who is good at writing doesn't make the creators of Shadow Complex into similar monsters.

it makes them slightly shittier people for doing business with someone who publicly and vocally holds those views

i really can't understand why you think there's something wrong with refusing to do business with someone who says or does things you find uncomfortable and offensive to your beliefs. that's just insane to me.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

What the hell?

Yup.

 

[Venfayth]

This is the kind of reaction people mean when they talk about "PC censorship". The correct way to deal with opposing viewpoints is to dismantle them afterwards, not silence them beforehand.

As long as the content isn't actually bigoted, then I agree.

 

[GotchaForce]

Everyone is way to sensitive now a days. People need to nut up.

I'm sure Gaynor should've told his team that, would've convinced them.

*sarcasm*

 

[Snowden's Secret]

Because PAX isn't a democracy and I don't see a reason to allow bigots the chance to parade their ignorance.

Who gets to decide who is a bigot and who should be allowed to speak their minds?

This is a dangerous road, and why the KKK and Westboro are allowed to speak publicly despite being despicable.

 

[Divvy]

Again, this is about punishment, not justice. People are so incensed at Orson Scott Card's comments that they want to punish anyone willing to do business with him. That not about gay marriage. That's petty and superficial. Card is wrong and offensively so, but hiring a writer who is good at writing doesn't make the creators of Shadow Complex into similar monsters.

That is a distortion of what actually happened. OSC is a very important funder of organizations that fight against gay rights. People like me chose not to give money to the game because we didn't want our money going to that cause. If he was just a dick that said stupid shit, it would not be the same scenario at all.

 

[Green Wiggly]

This is probably entirely legitimate sentiment, but it's also brilliant marketing, because they just picked up a sale from me.

Me too, and I hadn't heard of Fullbright or Gone Home before this.

 

[michaelius]

10/10 in creating pseudo controversy to promote game noone would otherwise care about

 

[TommyT]

Everyone is way to sensitive now a days. People need to nut up.

A rather apropos username for this debacle.

 

[Exr]

Because PAX isn't a democracy and I don't see a reason to allow bigots the chance to parade their ignorance.

How much do you know about this panel aside from its arguably sensationalist description?

 

[thumb]

Who gets to decide who is a bigot and who should be allowed to speak their minds?

This is a dangerous road, and why the KKK and Westboro are allowed to speak publicly despite being despicable.

Right, but they are not automatically granted space and time at private events. People who run private events are free to structure them as they wish.

 

[Coxswain]

But do you have proof for those accusations?

Seems like reactionary posts are norm these days.

The (unedited) description of the panel itself is the proof, unless that part was an outright 180-degree-turn lie.

 

[raphanum]

it makes them slightly shittier people for doing business with someone who publicly and vocally holds those views

i really can't understand why you think there's something wrong with refusing to do business with someone who says or does things you find uncomfortable and offensive to your beliefs. that's just insane to me.

You have to realise that life, the reality of society and it's idiosyncrasies are lost on the gaming community.

 

[Fistwell]

INTERNET DRAMA FUCK YES!

(Nice that they also call them out on kickstarter abuse.)

 

[JerryThePredator]

Well, PA had a good run.

 

[Metrotab]

As long as the content isn't actually bigoted, then I agree.

'Bigoted content' is meaningless. There is no authority to decide which content deserves that label and which doesn't.

 

[opticalmace]

10/10 in creating pseudo controversy to promote game noone would otherwise care about

Why is it pseudo controversy?

 

[doublenagger]

The (unedited) description of the panel itself is the proof, unless that part was an outright 180-degree-turn lie.

For me that's not enough to say if they're bigots.

 

[faceless007]

The comic wasn't supporting rape culture at all - which is probably why he said it.

For them to even mention the dickwolves thing as a negative towards PA is kind of a mark against Fullbright in my opinion. The people freaking out about that strip are the only ones who should be mentioned in a negative light. It was a joke, it passed the funny test - and it wasn't even about rape so much as it was about quest design in MMOs.

IIRC, the blowup about the dickwolves comic wasn't actually about the comic, there were only a couple bloggers who wrote some mild criticisms of the comic, bloggers you wouldn't expect PA or any of their fanbase to pay attention to anyway. The blowup happened when the PA fanbase got word of those blogs and began inundating them (and other feminist blogs) with vile, misogynistic comments, while the PA guys just stood by and claimed to have nothing to do with them. Naturally, this escalated to a larger flamewar that they, rather than try to defuse in any way, just kept adding fuel to with trollish tweets directed at feminists and even rape victims, because that's how they react to even mild criticism.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Because PAX isn't a democracy and I don't see a reason to allow bigots the chance to parade their ignorance.

If you cannot have a discussion about whether a cultural movement has gone to far, then the movement has transitioned from something that was once needed, to an agenda driven propaganda campaign.

 

[Coxswain]

For me that's not enough to say if they're bigots.

It's enough to say that the content of the discussion would have been bigoted.

 

[Etnos]

I've never understood the popularity of Penny Arcade, Whatever they've done have never click with me, perhaps their comedy is to American for me.. I guess

But jeez reading some of those tweets, it seems like that guy either to full of itself or he is just kind of an ass.

 

[doublenagger]

It's enough to say that the content of the discussion would have been bigoted.

Not enough proof for me. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[JDSN]

I respect them for making that choice, PA has gone to the deep end and becoming everything they mocked a decade ago. The amount of casual deliberate bigotry that should be given a pass in public discource is zero.