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[Chinner]

It just has different strengths than the first. If ME2 came before ME1 then everyone would bitch about the steep decline in the quality of the combat, the cookie-cutter side missions, or the less interesting squadmates who are all missing dedicated loyalty missions.

Yeah, your perception of the criticism of ME2 isn't accurate. I really don't know who is faulting ME2 because of the lack of RPG elements. Guess I'll have to make the same post again explaining the flaws of ME2, again!

I think we can all agree that ME1 is a flawed classic. It tried to do a lot of ambitious things, but in some areas it fell short. Everyone knew that if Bioware fixed these issues, then they'd be onto a real winner. However, instead of fixing these issues Bioware either radically scaled back or removed features.

So heres a few examples:

The inventory was pretty rotten in ME1, and was was one of the things most criticized. It was clear what Bioware had to fix, but instead Bioware removed this entirely and scaled back the number of available weapons and upgrades. Pretty unnecessary.

Story. I'm not going to get into technical details, but for a series that is heavily story focused ME2 really didn't contribute anything to the series (because it didn't have a story). Yes I know character stories and everything blah blah blah. One of the bigger flaws.

The side quest missions in ME2 are radically scaled back. In ME1, what they tried to achieve was a lot more ambitious with a better sense of exploration, variety and story arcs. Yeah, there were problems with repetition and the mako, but it was clear what needed fixing. In ME2, you scan a planet and get a 15 minute linear side question were you just shoot stuff. Okay, so the environments are unique but there's really no reason for me to care. It's a really safe idea and they achieved the execution of it, but at the end theres really no point and it's not enjoyable.

Combat. Alright, the mechanics and gunplay of ME2 is much improved, and if you a soldier class then its a clear improvement. However the changes to biotic/tech powers are really stale, and I'd actually argue that they're less enjoyable to play in ME2 than they are in ME1. If I remember correctly, the shield/armour mechanics further gimps them.

I'm trying not to go into too much detail cause I don't want to scare people off, but the bottom line is that ME2 is a really safe and unimaginative sequel.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

IMO the only real game that could be "generation defining" this year was probably Minecraft. And maybe RDR because an excellent Western game is so rare. But mostly Minecraft.
The scope of what its trying to do, of what its succeeding at doing, is so much larger then anything else. If there is any justice in the world that game will be the start of a paradigm shift.

Am I missing something here. All I see when I look at Minecraft are huge LEGO undertakings. Structures, that don't do anything. Why it its scope more grand than Gary's Mod or LBP 1/2?

 

[Lostconfused]

I'm trying not to go into too much detail cause I don't want to scare people off, but the bottom line is that ME2 is a really safe and unimaginative sequel.

Just take it to the story discussion thread, or maybe talk about how kind of generic the ME3 trailer is. You'll feel better.

 

[Virro]

I'm using the term "generation defining" as something completely subjective. As in games I personally will remember long after the generation is over. Most of the games I consider generation defining wouldn't even get a second look from many people. Metal Gear Solid 4, Flower, Little King's Story, Persona 4 (if that counts)

FFXIII is a bit trickier to explain due to an irrational hatred of FFXII. After so many different entries, everyone has their own definition of what the series should be like. Before XII, there wasn't one game in the series that I felt strayed too far for me to say "this isn't Final Fantasy". My expectations of the series had been shattered. Then XIII came along which restored some of the presentation, story, and battle system I expected from the series. It wasn't perfect by any means, but I can comfortably say "this is what I would consider Final Fantasy".

I don't want to cause a huge debate about FF (which will inevitably turn into list wars) so I'll just leave it at that.

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation.

I'm a little skewed on FF since I quit after VIII (never finished IX) and XIII was the first one I had played since then. And I think your short list resonates with more people than you'd guess.

 

[Fredescu]

Just take it to the story discussion thread

The sooner every thread becomes ME1 vs ME2 the better.

 

[Lostconfused]

The sooner every thread becomes ME1 vs ME2 the better.

Well you can just watch this and have a chuckel.

Spoiler

Been there done that, I know

 

[tiff]

However the changes to biotic/tech powers are really stale, and I'd actually argue that they're less enjoyable to play in ME2 than they are in ME1. If I remember correctly, the shield/armour mechanics further gimps them.

What exactly makes them worse? Because I tried to play a biotic in 1 and it was absolutely awful.

 

[The Technomancer]

Am I missing something here. All I see when I look at Minecraft are huge LEGO undertakings. Structures, that don't do anything. Why it its scope more grand than Gary's Mod or LBP 1/2?

Most sandbox games give you a few square miles to work in. Minecraft gives you eight times the surface area of the earth. The terrain generation algorithm creates varied terrain with some truly breathtaking sights and the winding caverns are fraught with danger and discovery. And discovery matters because you aren't uncovering the carefully designed creations of some developer that a million other gamers experience. Every sight is unique to your experience.
Its also one of the purest survival horror experiences, because monsters, especially early on, can fuck you over in a few terrifying moments. Every resource you use you earn with your raw hands, knocking down trees to make your first tools, carving out your own mine-shafts to get at the iron buried in the earth, smelting the sand on the beach in a crude oven to make panes of glass.

The entire world is so...so...incredibly tactile, your level of interaction with it so fundamental. When night falls the skeletons come out, firing arrows at your terrified fleeing form. You slam the door to your first shelter behind you, staring around at the stone walls that you built, using stone that you carved from the nearby mountainside, huddling inside waiting for morning as you craft your first tentative sword to try and beat back the hoards. And when you complete your first project, your first castle or cliffside home or serious mineshaft, standing back and going "yeah...I made that"...there's really nothing like it.

The entire game is basically three emotions: awe, terror, and accomplishment.

 

[RedRedSuit]

I don't know what the "MGS4 Situation" is, but if you think we'll have to wait two years for ME2 backlash, I don't know which NeoGAF you've been reading.

The "MGS4 situation" is where this happens:

- Heavily hyped game X comes out and scores highly and sells well.
- Most of those that love the series containing X love the game X and say so.
- Game X wins GAF GOTY due to the multitude of people that loved game X.
- Those that loved game X move onto other games and stop talking about it.
- Those that dislike the series or even just the game continue yelling about it for the next few years, while those that like it have moved on.
- Eventually, the false impression forms that game X was somehow a general disappointment and didn't deserve its extremely positive reception.

It's just another example of

and individuals' desire to impose their opinions onto the so-called GAF Hive Mind after the fact.

If ME2 wins GOTY this year, and it receives "backlash" a year or two later, it will be no different. A well-liked game that's still being bitched about years later by those who didn't enjoy it as much as the others.

EDIT/P.S. This phenomenon is more likely to happen with a game in a more complex genre; something heavily story-driven or RPG-like; as well as exclusives, which always inspire extra special love and hate. It's hard to be overly negative about a game that, while not too ambitious, is masterfully made, like an Uncharted 2. A game like Mass Effect 2 or MGS4 is bound to bring out really brutal hate; the latter due to the series' controversial way of storytelling and the former due to the million different ways to make an RPG.

 

[AniHawk]

actually I think me2 might wind up being more of a "mgs3" situation, where it got a lot of second and third place mentions versus games that got more first place mentions, and that's what sets it over the top.

 

[ultron87]

Well you can just watch this and have a chuckel.

Wow, that is uncanny. :lol

 

[Guevara]

actually I think me2 might wind up being more of a "mgs3" situation, where it got a lot of second and third place mentions versus games that got more first place mentions, and that's what sets it over the top.

My personal theory is that Red Dead was hamstrung by people who feel burned by GTA4 and didn't want to give it a chance. I know I was extremely hesitant to buy it after that boondoggle.

EDIT: RDR was my pick for GOTY.

 

[K.Jack]

What exactly makes them worse? Because I tried to play a biotic in 1 and it was absolutely awful.

Impossible. Biotic was absurdly powerful in ME1, to the point of broken.

I don't know what you did wrong.

 

[kamspy]

So ME2 won?

Worse GAF GOTY I can think of. /kicks rock

 

[REV 09]

My personal theory is that Red Dead was hamstrung by people who feel burned by GTA4 and didn't want to give it a chance. I know I was extremely hesitant to buy it after that boondoggle.

Red Dead is a phenomenal game with a few big flaws. The biggest offense to RDR is the pacing. The second main problem are the lackluster controls. The mp sucks too, but it's just mp. RDR is masterful in other areas though and is certainly one of the best games of the year. GTA4 was just a bad game imo; I honestly can't think of a good thing to say about it.

 

[REV 09]

So ME2 won?

Worse GAF GOTY I can think of. /kicks rock

Not officially. Either it or RDR.

 

[AniHawk]

GTA IV made me physically ill.

okay so it might've been a coincidence, but my crops also died around the same time.

 

[Chittagong]

I'll be really disappointed if ME2 wins GOTY. Yes it was on my list too, and the gameplay was amazing, but the story was a huge step backwards. So shallow and poorly paced compared to ME1. Game was still fun, but just not as emotionally engaging.

RDR I could live with based on what I've heard and read from everywhere. It seems much more significant.

 

[user_nat]

IF ME2 does win, it'll be the first time that me and GAF have agreed on a GoTY.

So it probably won't win.

 

[EatChildren]

I dont think ME2 is deserving of GOTY, but I dont really mind if it gets it, as butthurt GAF will be glorious to watch.

 

[Papercuts]

I'll be really disappointed if ME2 wins GOTY. Yes it was on my list too, and the gameplay was amazing, but the story was a huge step backwards. So shallow and poorly paced compared to ME1. Game was still fun, but just not as emotionally engaging.

RDR I could live with based on what I've heard and read from everywhere. It seems much more significant.

RDR has major pacing issues as well.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I dont think ME2 is deserving of GOTY, but I dont really mind if it gets it, as butthurt GAF will be glorious to watch.

Pretty much.

 

[tiff]

Impossible. Biotic was absurdly powerful in ME1, to the point of broken.

I don't know what you did wrong.

I dunno, it's been a few years so maybe I'm remembering the wrong class. It was something other than soldier. Maybe the soldier/tech hybrid.

All I know is, after a few hours I never wanted to play the game again.

I'll be really disappointed if ME2 wins GOTY. Yes it was on my list too, and the gameplay was amazing, but the story was a huge step backwards. So shallow and poorly paced compared to ME1. Game was still fun, but just not as emotionally engaging.

RDR I could live with based on what I've heard and read from everywhere. It seems much more significant.

I don't know what you mean by significant, but I definitely enjoyed ME2 more between the two.

 

[Lostconfused]

IF ME2 does win, it'll be the first time that me and GAF have agreed on a GoTY.

So it probably won't win.

If it doesn't win it would probably be the first time I ever agreed with a GAF goty. And since I have evidence that the universe is more likely to screw me over, ME2 is totally going to win.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Lots of ME2 talk, kind of coincidental that I just started this game today. So far its playing about the same ME1, I hate the supid mining system though.

 

[DuckRacer]

The inventory was pretty rotten in ME1, and was was one of the things most criticized. It was clear what Bioware had to fix, but instead Bioware removed this entirely and scaled back the number of available weapons and upgrades. Pretty unnecessary.

They technically lowered the amount of total weapons but they replaced the dozens of clones with guns that actually have real differences. As for ammo types, they kept the types that had real impact on the gameplay and the shield/armor/biotic system, and ditched the ones that ultimately had no practical use (like explosive and the various varieties of poison ammo).

Story. I'm not going to get into technical details, but for a series that is heavily story focused ME2 really didn't contribute anything to the series (because it didn't have a story). Yes I know character stories and everything blah blah blah. One of the bigger flaws.

I agree that ME2's overarching story is weak and a disappointment. That said it's not sensible to discount the character stories, considering several of them go beyond "well hey shep help me get past this personal issue" and will probably impact ME3. (If they don't, and/or they ditch most of the ME2 crew, BioWare :lol)

The side quest missions in ME2 are radically scaled back. In ME1, what they tried to achieve was a lot more ambitious with a better sense of exploration, variety and story arcs. Yeah, there were problems with repetition and the mako, but it was clear what needed fixing. In ME2, you scan a planet and get a 15 minute linear side question were you just shoot stuff. Okay, so the environments are unique but there's really no reason for me to care. It's a really safe idea and they achieved the execution of it, but at the end theres really no point and it's not enjoyable.

Missed the sense of exploration and interconnectedness too, hopefully Overlord is an indication of ME3's sidequest design. However I think you're really overstating ME1's sidequests – virtually everything devolved into shooting, whereas there's a couple ME2 sidequests that actually involve only exploration. Saying there's no point to them is applying a broad brush and the same point could easily be made against ME1's sidequests. What's the point in saving some doctor aboard some copy/pasted ship? What's the point in apprehending/killing some religious fanatic inside some copy/pasted base? Etc. Thematically ME2 doesn't go deeper, but to its credit the level and visual design fit the story of each sidequest. Land on a planet and the geth are screwing with the weather system? The environment looks unlike anything you've encountered in the series before, and the level design itself is designed accordingly. Core gameplay improvements inadvertently help the sidequests too, whereas in ME1, since everything involved shooting, you had to deal with its terrible mechanics to get anything done.

I realize ME2 is flawed, and its place in the series depends on how ME3 turns out, but all the improvements it brought really shouldn't be discounted.

 

[Codeblue]

I would think that no one would remember or care who won GoTY 2010 two years from now.

Is anyone still arguing about 2008's winner?

 

[Kevtones]

I almost think GOTY voting should happen in April.

 

[Virro]

I almost think GOTY voting should happen in April.

...so it could be "Game of the Fiscal Year"?

 

[Jive Turkey]

...so it could be "Game of the Fiscal Year"?

You can still do January-December just vote in April after the hype has died down and people actually get a chance to play the holiday releases. It'll never happen but it isn't a bad idea.

 

[Always-honest]

winner in OP?

 

[BowieZ]

You can still do January-December just vote in April after the hype has died down and people actually get a chance to play the holiday releases. It'll never happen but it isn't a bad idea.

Maybe we could do a two-pronged voting process like the Academy Awards. By early January vote for nominees, then in February (or March, or whatever) vote for the winner. For example:

GAME OF THE YEAR 2010

Bayonetta
Halo: Reach
Mass Effect 2
Red Dead Redemption
Super Mario Galaxy 2

Technically speaking, we could still do something like this for this year.

Other awards could be BEST DEVELOPER, BEST ORIGINAL SCORE, BEST WRITING, etc

 

[Prophet Steve]

Maybe we could do a two-pronged voting process like the Academy Awards. By early January vote for nominees, then in February (or March, or whatever) vote for the winner. For example:

GAME OF THE YEAR 2010

Bayonetta
Halo: Reach
Mass Effect 2
Red Dead Redemption
Super Mario Galaxy 2

Technically speaking, we could still do something like this for this year.

Other awards could be BEST DEVELOPER, BEST ORIGINAL SCORE, BEST WRITING, etc

The rage for games that are not included in nominees will be glorious.
ME2 butt-hurt present!

 

[Regulus Tera]

You can still do January-December just vote in April after the hype has died down and people actually get a chance to play the holiday releases. It'll never happen but it isn't a bad idea.

Imo it would be better to vote for the Game of the Year when the following year is ending. Like, you would vote for Game of the Year 2011 in December 2012.

 

[RedRedSuit]

Is anyone still arguing about 2008's winner?

Yes.

...but generally it's just people who are still hurt that a lot of people like this one game they themselves did not enjoy. Everyone else has more or less moved on.

 

[weekend_warrior]

I can't be bothered to read this whole thread, should I just assume MAG won GOTY? Great.

 

[Kurtofan]

Lots of ME2 talk, kind of coincidental that I just started this game today. So far its playing about the same ME1, I hate the supid mining system though.

You don't have to mine every planets you know.
I never got the mining complaints, as I only mined four-five planets in ME2.You don't need much more.

 

[Trent Strong]

If RDR wins, I will lose all faith in humanity and become a hermit and go live in a cave doing nothing but living on rat meat and rain water for the rest of my life.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I can't be bothered to read this whole thread, should I just assume MAG won GOTY? Great.

Sin and Punishment 2 won after a huge upset in the last ten pages!!!!!

 

[RedRedSuit]

You don't have to mine every planets you know.
I never got the mining complaints, as I only mined four-five planets in ME2.You don't need much more.

You needed to mine a whole hell of a lot more planets if you wanted to upgrade all your shit. At least an order of magnitude more.

Even if you didn't *have* to do it, such an obviously boring and mechanical and utterly unrewarding activity should have never been in the game. It's just dumb. No one likes it. No one has ever liked it. No one could ever like it. It's right up there with getting called by your friends every 2 minutes in GTA IV.

I say this as a huge fan of Mass Effect 2.

 

[BowieZ]

If RDR wins, I will lose all faith in humanity and become a hermit and go live in a cave doing nothing but living on rat meat and rain water for the rest of my life.

You better copyright that before Rockstar gets a hold of the concept.

Sin and Punishment 2 won after a huge upset in the last ten pages!!!!!

The last 1000 posts? WOW

Spoiler

 

[adversesolutions]

Sin and Punishment 2 won after a huge upset in the last ten pages!!!!!

<3<3<3<3

 

[ShockingAlberto]

You can still do January-December just vote in April after the hype has died down and people actually get a chance to play the holiday releases. It'll never happen but it isn't a bad idea.

The problem with this logic is that the top contenders for GOTY, just going by observation, seem to be games released in January, May, and June. It's not like there hasn't been a long digestion period here.

 

[Dabanton]

If RDR wins, I will lose all faith in humanity and become a hermit and go live in a cave doing nothing but living on rat meat and rain water for the rest of my life.

With that kind of result i hope it does.

 

[Trent Strong]

With that kind of result i hope it does.

 

[Haunted]

winner in OP?

Winner can be found here.

Spoiler

There'll be a new thread, as usual.

 

[Jive Turkey]

The problem with this logic is that the top contenders for GOTY, just going by observation, seem to be games released in January, May, and June. It's not like there hasn't been a long digestion period here.

This year. The past couple of years have had quite a few late entries. Just looking at last year's list over half (11) of the top 20 overall were released within the last three months of 2009.

 

[Amir0x]

I hope Mass Effect 2 wins over Red Dead. Red Dead was one of those games that really did not click with me at all.

 

[tiff]

Maybe we could do a two-pronged voting process like the Academy Awards. By early January vote for nominees, then in February (or March, or whatever) vote for the winner. For example:

GAME OF THE YEAR 2010

Bayonetta
Halo: Reach
Mass Effect 2
Red Dead Redemption
Super Mario Galaxy 2

Technically speaking, we could still do something like this for this year.

Other awards could be BEST DEVELOPER, BEST ORIGINAL SCORE, BEST WRITING, etc

So people who wouldn't vote for any of those are still boned.

The problem with this logic is that the top contenders for GOTY, just going by observation, seem to be games released in January, May, and June. It's not like there hasn't been a long digestion period here.

I think we should be worried about more than just the most popular games when we do this. And it's not as if everyone plays every game the day they come out.

 

[EatChildren]

Surprise Winner: Heavy Rain.