Castor Krieg
Banned
S-E must have pretty low standards then.
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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
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S-E must have pretty low standards then.
Judging by the caliber of games they make these days...
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
Has Keighly said anything about this yet? If he hasn't his silence speaks volumes to how worthless he really is.
funkystudent
Member
In the bigger picture Keighly getting a marketing deal with Doritos is probably the least fucked up thing in all of this.
Sure its kind of sleezy looking but its no worse then any other TV personality getting a ad deal with Windows phone or coke or something.
I dont know what he can add to the discussion.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
I'm not referring to the picture of just Halo, Dew, and Doritos, how about the topic as a whole? If he's an influential person in the industry why isn't he being vocal on how to work towards change? He doesn't do these things because he'd rather not put himself out there, continue outputting vanilla material, and continue receiving his inflated pay checks and maintain the status quo. Seriously, he's the definition of the root of the problem here, and I wish more people would see that and address it.
Castor Krieg
Banned
No, he was always surprisingly open about his relationship with the publishers. Yes, he is a corporate tool, but he doesn't pretend otherwise. He will use his best judgement here and there to try and bring gaming news to the masses e.g. hosting VGAs. His "Last Hours of..." show he is a very competent writer, probably one of the better ones in the industry. But instead of whining about every little shit he just does his job and gets a fat paycheck for that. Sounds good to me.
Geoff never pretended to be some kind of a saint. I regard him as a talented PR person and that's the end of it, I would be surprised if anyone went to him for some criticism.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
This logic is mind boggling to me. People complain that videogames don't see credibility in the mainstream as a main form of entertainment. The people who report on this industry are the ones who have the ability to make the industry be taken seriously. But when these journalists are corporate pawns who feed at free gifts, sexy woman, and anything else thrown at them the industry does not move forward. It stays stagnant and is continually mocked by other entertainment industries.
Geoff Keighly is far and away the most visible gaming representative in terms of journalism and knowledge. When CNN wants to run a piece about hot new games for the holiday, who can they call to give input to the millions of people who are never exposed to video games? Fucking Geoff Keighly. When the asshole who sees the most visible facetime to the masses, non-gamers, and others outside of the industry, is what you call "a talented PR" how in the world is that a good thing or progressive step for video games as a whole?
He should be leading the pack to break this reviewer/PR buddy system as he's a major gateway to getting things moving for this industry and exposure to the mainstream. But like I said, why jump in the mud and get your clothes dirty, when its these same companies that pay for the washing machine that cleans his clothes in the first place?
Castor Krieg
Banned
It IS main form of entertainment as evidenced by massive revenues videogames are bringing. The market is already larger than the movie market.
Do I care for "credibility"? No I don't. It is entertainment, pure and simple. I do not care about moral stance on some issues of Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, Morgan Freeman, etc. They are just acting in the movies I watch.
Since I have a pretty good ability to distinguish good games I am fine with that, I do not rely on official reviews in the slightest.
Remember gaming media, etc. is very largely still hobby-driven. You graduate as a journalist, you want to work for Financial Times, not IGN. By definition the balance of power is skewed towards the publishers, as they are simply not many talented journalists to make the media viable.
Yes, Geoff Keighley didn´t pretend to be some kind of a saint. He pretends to be a journalist while being a Halo PR spokesperson.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
And this thread is about gaming credibility, so... Your point is moot. Thanks for the contribution.
ShockingAlberto
Member
The problem, as I see it, is not that Keighley pretends to be a journalist. He does not call himself one and would, if anything, identify as an entertainer or host. The problem is that he lets people think he is a journalist. He will gladly hold an event where you can ask Keighley his thoughts on the video game industry as he sits next to Doritos and Mountain Dew. Why would you ask a show host about the industry? You wouldn't, you'd ask the journalist who did the final hours of Portal 2.
But in that grey capacity, he sits there surrounded with advertising material for a big holiday game.
If the defense of Keighley is that he is not explicitly doing anything wrong, I would hope people saying that seriously re-examine that argument.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
He's not doing anything wrong because he's a presenter and not a reviewer? Presenters still have an opinion, a voice, and a face within the industry. If Microsoft is paying him assloads of money to help promote Halo 4 and then hosts the VGA where Halo 4 wins game of the year, you don't see anything wrong with that? If he goes on CNN and recommends parents buy Halo for their kids for Christmas, still nothing wrong with that? I seriously don't know how someone can say he's not doing something explicitly wrong.
Actually, he does. And he acts like one when it suits him, e.g grilling Reggie at E3 this year.
https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley
The problem with reading reviews for me is that they give too much away about the game itself. Sounds backwards I know, but I enjoy discovering things in games for myself, not just storyline style spoilers, but the technical nuances of the game itself.
If I read all about the game mechanics beforehand it takes some of the fun out of it, it changes my experience from, "Wow, I wasn't expecting that, love it!" to "That review was right, that is quite cool". I guess it's like the difference between discovering an album you love by chance and having it recommended to you by a friend who tells you which tracks are best and why at the same time.
With scores I could skip to the end and get an indication of how enjoyable the game is without finding out exactly why it's fun beforehand, meaning I can keep myself in the dark about the game without risking buying a turd. Also, it prevents any pre-conceived notions on what is and isn't fun in the game.
Even truncated 0-10 scales give a better indication than "Buy/Don't buy" when it comes to choosing one game over another (again if you don't read the actual review and decide for yourself) when you can't afford them both. Admittedly this isn't really as much of an issue for me anymore as I only buy sub £15 now, which to be honest is best as it means I can ignore reviews entirely and just go off general [GAF?] feelings as to whether I'll enjoy it.
Basically I'm just trying to stick up for review scores a little as I always see them get a kicking in threads like this. It's not the scores that are inherently wrong, it's the methods they are arrived at that need changing.
Puppet Shadow
Member
I always saw Geoff Keighley as the Ryan Seacrest of video games, except that from time to time Geoff actually puts out decent content instead of just reporting on it. Hell, if anything my opinion of him went up, as he was smart enough to not comment on any of this at all, something a few others in the industry should have done.
So, I have no problem with him pimping for Microsoft (or anyone else), that's the role he's managed to create for himself in the gaming industry. Come to think of it, he's the only one in this role that I can think of.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
But WHY? Why does Geoff constantly gets this pass as if he's an exception. He identifies as a gaming journalist, he has influence on the gaming press, he is a part of the gaming press, and he critiques not only games, but also companies, industry people, developers, business strategies, and more and then passes those opinions on to us as readers/viewers. Being in the pocket of one of these companies directly influences his opinion and thus makes his opinion biased and invalid. If anything the fact that he is open about this makes it all that much more absurd that people are okay with what he does. What the fuck?
Puppet Shadow
Member
That is a fair question. For some reason I just see him as more of a spokesman, and I take anything he says with a grain of salt as I know he's a paid to say it. Hell, he's the king of Announcement of an announcement. I don't give anyone else a pass because I can't think of anyone else that does what he does. Weird thing is, the guy is a talented writer at times, which is I guess what helped him land this role.
This is sort of unrelated, but this situation reminds me being amazed more than once that instead of CNN or The Washington Post uncovering details of a breaking story, lately it seems to be TMZ. How the hell did that happen?
Eh, I do understand your frustration though.
Unlike the horrible Kotaku interview which makes her look like a fucking martyr in a industry of male dominance.
eudaemonic
Member
I'd really like to see these "mockings" that don't come from inside the gaming industry - and I'm not talking about news stories who like using games as a scapegoat.
Outside industries are only jelly about the money we make; they could give two shits about endorsement deals or Geoff Keighley or even if there was a sex scandal. They might peek up their heads more if we start talking about unions and other broader topics that could have a rippling effect.
chalkitdown1
Member
No stopping this train.
http://www.x360magazine.com/reviews/hitman-absolution-review/
Guy gets called out on his bullshit review.
The comments lol
Then heads to twitter for a circle-jerk with his buddies.
http://www.x360magazine.com/reviews/hitman-absolution-review/
Guy gets called out on his bullshit review.
The comments lol
Then heads to twitter for a circle-jerk with his buddies.
Interficium
Banned
Brilliant. I'm going to try and work "Doritoed" into my everyday vernacular.
The line about seeing the whole game reeks of 'objective opinion' bullshit, other than that their reaction just strikes me as very thin skinned and defensive for no reason. It's a joke, relax.
Reflexively running to Twitter to cry on your follower's shoulder makes everyone seem a lot dumber than they are. People use it like they're whispering to their friends in class, not realizing that they're actually screaming it into the room.
Reflexively running to Twitter to cry on your follower's shoulder makes everyone seem a lot dumber than they are. People use it like they're whispering to their friends in class, not realizing that they're actually screaming it into the room.
Not everyone in the news is a critic though. Kieghley is a reporter, but not necessarily a critic.
Tagline of his site:
Did you even watch the interview? He was doing a commercial speech while pretending to be in his job as a game journalist. If he would have done a Halo commercial, okay, wrong but okay. But he was using a interview as a commercial plattform. Geoff Keighley crossed a line he didn´t have to.
No stopping this train.
http://www.x360magazine.com/reviews/hitman-absolution-review/
Guy gets called out on his bullshit review.
The comments lol
Then heads to twitter for a circle-jerk with his buddies.
I love the defense he gave later in the comments:
200 kills. Hell yeah. Another part of the problem. But this is another story.
That's like telling someone to play Crackdown, but don't pass judgement until you've collected every one of the agility orbs. Every. Single. One.
The only reason any game could ever have a justified 10/10 score is if every single review site gave it 90+%. If there's even a small handful that are able to find enough wrong with it to give it a ~70% rating then there's no way that 10/10 can be warranted because clearly, you haven't looked at it objectively enough.
The only reason any game could ever have a justified 10/10 score is if every single review site gave it 90+%. If there's even a small handful that are able to find enough wrong with it to give it a ~70% rating then there's no way that 10/10 can be warranted because clearly, you haven't looked at it objectively enough.
funkystudent
Member
Not only UK
Related:
Ubisoft is offering Video game journalists money for making Just Dance videos. They have to make clear that they are enjoying it while wearing a pink wig.
Not only UK
Related:
Ubisoft is offering Video game journalists money for making Just Dance videos. They have to make clear that they are enjoying it while wearing a pink wig.
Will be interesting to see who bites.
His defense of the review that was posted earlier sounds like it came straight from a press release:
Link?
Leaking here something, give me some time.
Other tidbits, quite hilarious:
Dan Howdle really shouldn´t try to sound like with not intellect at all.
Also nice:
Funny defense-athon on twitter:
Do they even realize?
Xisiqomelir
Member
I entirely agree, save the minor caveats that I would substitute "completely and wonderfully" for "a bit", and "delightful" for "unfortunate.
IdreamofHIME
Member
I don't see Keighley as a journo, he's the host of a poorly constructed TV show and interview program on the internet. He doesn't even review games. His twitter is 99% hyping up games or teasing secrets, he never critiques or looks in depth at the industry. Hell, he's in charge of an awards ceremony that spends more time hyping upcoming games than it does rewarding the achievements of the one's already out.
He might call himself a journalust, but you know the saying about the Cat having kittens in the oven.
As for Wainwright, i'm glad she got the boot...I don't wish her in any malice though. I hope she quickly finds some work at Tesco or something.
He might call himself a journalust, but you know the saying about the Cat having kittens in the oven.
As for Wainwright, i'm glad she got the boot...I don't wish her in any malice though. I hope she quickly finds some work at Tesco or something.
80 hours... so they'd had the review copy for a week and played it ten hours a day for eight days in a row (at least)? Something doesn't add up there.
I'd love to know when review copies got sent out. Because there's no way anyone's put 80 hours into a game over one or even two weeks and still had time to put together a magazine and review other games.
ClosingADoor
Member
For print, don't know. Online got it around the 5th here, some earlier.
They will get it first with a debug copy so they could have had enough time.
drkOne
Member
I was kinda the same way, surely Square doesn't trust Hitman's quality if they need to pull this of.
But I did end up getting on PC and I really liked the Prologue.
This post was brought to you by McDonalds.
I'm also not happy Wainwright got fired, might as well keep the shitty journalists somewhere I never visited. Next thing we know Eurogamer will hire her, and then it's all fucked.
To me "doritoed" just sounds like an alternative spelling of "moneyhat" which I think is missing the larger point of a large portion of this thread.
To be clear, I'm talking about the part where the issue is games journalists being too friendly with games PR and the psychological affect it has to be treated out by them all the time.
To be clear, I'm talking about the part where the issue is games journalists being too friendly with games PR and the psychological affect it has to be treated out by them all the time.
Doritoed is still funny though. You can crack a quick joke now and then without necessarily having to discuss the entire state of "games journalism" every time.
NekoFever
Member
It's a review. It's not objective whichever way you slice it, unless all you're doing is listing the features, which would essentially be PR.
ClosingADoor
Member
Yes, could have gotten it as early as half october. But for print you also have earlier deadlines, so 80 hours might still be a bit of an exaggeration. But well, I think Hitman is a great game anyway and deserves praise. Maybe not a 9+ but worth getting anyway.
I just hope not all gaming media will now start feeling attacked so early. It was just a comment. If your review is good, you don't need to explain yourself anymore about a score.
Don't agree with that - people's opinions differ, it doesn't make them wrong. The Twitter stuff is silly though.
I haven't seen this posted anywhere, but it's related.
Rab Florence is currently developing a comedy show based around videogames to start sometime in December (which will be very interesting as comedy is his regular 'day job' so to speak), called This Fucking Amusement Arcade.
He's started a blog for the show, which he's using as his mouthpiece for games blogging as well. So if you liked Lost Humanity before he had to leave EG, then this effectively seems to be its replacement.
http://effingarcade.tumblr.com/
Rab Florence is currently developing a comedy show based around videogames to start sometime in December (which will be very interesting as comedy is his regular 'day job' so to speak), called This Fucking Amusement Arcade.
He's started a blog for the show, which he's using as his mouthpiece for games blogging as well. So if you liked Lost Humanity before he had to leave EG, then this effectively seems to be its replacement.
http://effingarcade.tumblr.com/
Fair point on the opinion thing. But I feel that with that review in particular, it's like watching a movie and rating it 10/10 on IMDB as soon as you leave the cinema without actually thinking about it. You're still post-coital and enamoured with it, but you haven't had time to actually analyse your experience... you're still pretty much in the moment (except obviously with games, the "moment" lasts far longer). It's like he's written everything good that's happened in the game and left the other clipboard with his criticisms on the bus.
I wouldn't have a problem with a 10/10 review if it actually nailed down what was enjoyed about it without being so fucking hyperbolic. But every 10/10 review of a AAA title just comes off that way and there's not one word of the author being analytical of the entire product.
I'm actually going to give myself a rule now: If I skim through a review and there is one hint of hyperbole, regardless of it's final score (but more thoroughly searched for if the game gets 10/10) then I'm throwing the article and the author into the virtual wastepaper basket. I don't need shit like this in my reviews:
Makes me want to fucking throw up it's so saccharine. It's almost more believable if you read it in the tone of Homer Simpson's sarcastic voice.
Fuck it. Read the whole review in that tone.
I wouldn't have a problem with a 10/10 review if it actually nailed down what was enjoyed about it without being so fucking hyperbolic. But every 10/10 review of a AAA title just comes off that way and there's not one word of the author being analytical of the entire product.
I'm actually going to give myself a rule now: If I skim through a review and there is one hint of hyperbole, regardless of it's final score (but more thoroughly searched for if the game gets 10/10) then I'm throwing the article and the author into the virtual wastepaper basket. I don't need shit like this in my reviews:
Makes me want to fucking throw up it's so saccharine. It's almost more believable if you read it in the tone of Homer Simpson's sarcastic voice.
Fuck it. Read the whole review in that tone.
Yes! Thanks for the link. He announced on twitter a few weeks ago he had got a group together to do another games show next year. If it starts in December, even better
I look forward to a mauling of the games press in the first episode.
Yes! Thanks for the link. He announced on twitter a few weeks ago he had got a group together to do another games show next year. If it starts in December, even better
I look forward to a mauling of the games press in the first episode.
I doubt you're going to get that, it sounds as if it's a sitcomish thing about gamers and the blog there seems to be Rab playing a slight exaggeration of a character called Rab Florence.
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