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[soul]

I don't know why you folks continue to argue with someone who is quite obviously completely indoctrinated and will not budge from his beliefs no matter what evidence is thrown in his face. Let it go; words aren't going to change anything.

The people involved in this conflict would much rather destroy each other than reach an agreement, and I can't see this changing unless they have a mutual enemy to overcome.

You do not believe nothing I post here, that's the problem. There is even evidence that the "peace" activists had guns on board. The officers inspecting the ship found shells that do not match those of the soldiers. The activists just thrown the guns out of the ship...

just now an I.D.F. officer was interviewed on "Reshet Bet" in Israel. For some reason I'm certain this won't get posted on the CNN website....

 

[flsh]

I am not that religious myself, but I still think that a country without a way and a belief is a country that will eventually fall. If you do not believe what you have should be yours, why would you fight for it? It is a sad thing that people within Israel are losing their path and some, the left parties and their voters, even support Palestinians instead of their own brothers, and the extreme ones even discredit the I.D.F, without even understanding that without it they wouldn't be here...

I guess they are lucky they are living in a democracy because in any other Muslim country they would be branded as traitors and hanged.

Religion is not the only reason to believe what is mine should be mine. You are far more religious than you claim if you honestly believe Israel is ours because god said so.
Those leftists you claim discredit the IDF, are simply people who don't want to be associated with a country that is killing innocent lives and runs a blockade on people that should honestly be our allies. If you ask me, despite your time in service, your political view is far more dangerous to the future of Israel than what leftists say and do. People in Israel who are militant and extreme are the reason we have such idiots in power right now. You honestly believe this blockade is good? Starving innocent Palestinians and ruining their quality of life is not the way to go. Helping them and showing them we can be good friends is the proper way to advance peace talks in this region. But the majority doesn't want that.

 

[Rapstah]

You do not believe nothing I post here, that's the problem. There is even evidence that the "peace" activists had guns on board. The officers inspecting the ship found shells that do not match those of the soldiers. The activists just thrown the guns out of the ship...

just now an I.D.F. officer was interviewed on "Reshet Bet" in Israel. For some reason I'm certain this won't get posted on the CNN website....

You don't see the problem with your sources?

 

[dave is ok]

God gave me this video game forum, guys. Please leave it or I will be forced to resort to violence.

 

[Hellcrow]

I am not that religious myself, but I still think that a country without a way and a belief is a country that will eventually fall. If you do not believe what you have should be yours, why would you fight for it? It is a sad thing that people within Israel are losing their path and some, the left parties and their voters, even support Palestinians instead of their own brothers, and the extreme ones even discredit the I.D.F, without even understanding that without it they wouldn't be here...

I guess they are lucky they are living in a democracy because in any other Muslim country they would be branded as traitors and hanged.

This and your tag quote does not commute. You are basically backing into extreme nationalism, an ideologi which should have died after WW2.

 

[Solideliquid]

For those of you trying to trash soul for his "god" post, I invite you to simply read over the pledge of allegiance.

 

[soul]

Religion is not the only reason to believe what is mine should be mine. You are far more religious than you claim if you honestly believe Israel is ours because god said so.
Those leftists you claim discredit the IDF, are simply people who don't want to be associated with a country that is killing innocent lives and runs a blockade on people that should honestly be our allies. If you ask me, despite your time in service, your political view is far more dangerous to the future of Israel than what leftists say and do. People in Israel who are militant and extreme are the reason we have such idiots in power right now. You honestly believe this blockade is good? Starving innocent Palestinians and ruining their quality of life is not the way to go. Helping them and showing them we can be good friends is the proper way to advance peace talks in this region. But the majority doesn't want that.

We walked down that path before when Sharon was P.M. What did they do with the territory we gave them? used it to build a Hamas base at the old University building, and positioning their rockets there so they reach even further. Funny thing is these fools are trying to hit the power plant that is near by all the time without realizing this is the same plant that is supplying their own electricity :lol

 

[mAcOdIn]

For those of you trying to trash soul for his "god" post, I invite you to simply read over the pledge of allegiance.

That was added in the 50s, it wasn't in the original, besides, just because something Is written it doesn't mean we believe it.

 

[empty vessel]

I don't know why you folks continue to argue with someone who is quite obviously completely indoctrinated and will not budge from his beliefs no matter what evidence is thrown in his face. Let it go; words aren't going to change anything.

The people involved in this conflict would much rather destroy each other than reach an agreement, and I can't see this changing unless they have a mutual enemy to overcome.

But that's a false equivalence, the making of which, by the way, is very much part of the problem. It is not at all true that Palestinians have the blameworthiness or responsibility that Israel and the US have for the conflict. The U.S. and Israel have it fully within their power to peacefully resolve the conflict and to do so at any time of their choosing. They willingly choose not to, in order to advance nativist, territorial and geostrategic goals. Indeed, even calling it a "conflict" at all is seriously misleading when the power imbalance is so lopsided. What we have is an apartheid state, in which one powerful class has completely subjugated another, weaker class.

When you shrug your shoulders and split the difference like you have done, distributing blame equally without regard to its appropriateness, your words then serve to alleviate the pressure on Israel and the US to end their subjugation of Palestinians. And since the US and Israel are the only parties that have the power to resolve the conflict, you prolong it. Maximal pressure must be applied to the only parties that have it within their power to resolve the problem, and giving them an "out" by assigning equal blame to a party that lacks any power whatsoever is completely unhelpful.

 

[besada]

For those of you trying to trash soul for his "god" post, I invite you to simply read over the pledge of allegiance.

That might be an interesting thought experiment if there were anyone in the thread affirmatively asserting that the U.S. is "under God" and therefore allowed special protections. While that sentiment is fairly common on the right, it's hardly a universal American idea.

Soul isn't sitting at home repeating a loyalty oath pushed on him by his government, he's voluntarily selling their ideas on a public forum and is entirely responsible for his own statements.

 

[happyfunball]

For those of you trying to trash soul for his "god" post, I invite you to simply read over the pledge of allegiance.

Yes, something which was added after the fact by religious groups in the 1950's but not there prior. Nice try though.

 

[Prine]

To the people telling israeli soldiers make that much civil casualties. This picture is sadly part of that.

Hey, 2/3 of casualties during Israel last siege were women and children (according to UN). They dropped bombs on shelters and schools.

 

[gumshoe]

:lol my voice has no meaning here when people are siding to attack one's belief, anyway I think I just justified my own post. I will never leave Israel for this is home. Call me whatever you want, a fanatic nut etc etc, but we are growing up on the belief that God has promised this land to us, it is our country, not the Palestinians, their "home" is Jordan for most Palestinians are living there, if they want to "go back home" they can leave to there. If not, they can live alongside us, they only need to lay down their arms and their, and our life will be so much better here in the troubled Middle East.

By the way, I am guessing all the lefties in that justify the flotilla will be coming next time? I hope at least one comes so he can say what he has experienced first hand.

and something funny as well

wow... you have got to be kidding me!!! So much BS in this post.. it is unreal.

Their home is Jordan??? Seriously? Now you are telling people where their homeland is? You do realize that up until 2 years before Jewish forces decided to take over palestine, Jordan and Palestine were basically one land, right?? Palestinians (muslims, christians, and jews) were living in both areas , and the reason why a lot more Palestinians live in Jordan now is because they were either kicked out of their houses by Israeli forces or they fled in fear for their lives.

So you want to kick them out of the entire area to Jordan??

 

[soul]

wow... you have got to be kidding me!!! So much BS in this post.. it is unreal.

Their home is Jordan??? Seriously? Now you are telling people where their homeland is? You do realize that up until 2 years before Jewish forces decided to take over palestine, Jordan and Palestine were basically one land, right?? Palestinians (muslims, christians, and jews) were living in both areas , and the reason why a lot more Palestinians live in Jordan now is because they were either kicked out of their houses by Israeli forces or they fled in fear for their lives.

You are just spreading ignorant filth.

Do you know what a Palestinian is? There is no such thing, it is not a real nation, those are people gathered together from parts of the Muslim world that somehow ended up in Gaza. In reality they have no "real home", they were kicked out from everywhere, last iirc from Egypt or Syria. Most of the Palestinians are living in Jordan, it is a fact.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Do you know what a Palestinian is? There is no such thing, it is not a nation, those are people gathered together from parts of the Muslim world. In reality they have no "real home", they were kicked out of everywhere from everywhere, last iirc from Egypt or Syria.

Sounds familiar....

 

[Hellcrow]

Do you know what a Palestinian is? There is no such thing, it is not a real nation, those are people gathered together from parts of the Muslim world that somehow ended up in Gaza. In reality they have no "real home", they were kicked out from everywhere, last iirc from Egypt or Syria.

Like jews before Israel?

 

[Prine]

Sounds familiar....

He keeps falling into his own trap.

 

[soul]

Like jews before Israel?

Read the tagged post, Jews had always intended to return to Israel, it is home according to the belief, all the people who did Aliyah to the country knew where they are going and why.

Palestinians don't. Jerusalem is not even mentioned in the Quran - not even once!

 

[mAcOdIn]

Read the tagged post, Jews had always intended to return to Israel, it is home according to the belief, all the people who did Aliyah to the country knew where they are going and why.

Palestinians don't. Jerusalem is not even mentioned in the Quran - not even once!

Is this about Islam or Palestine?

 

[Clipjoint]

Ok it's confirmed, soul is a joke poster. There's no way anyone can be that deluded.

 

[soul]

Is this about Islam or Palestine?

The Palestinians are Muslim so I'm referring to their belief.

 

[phalestine]

The Palestinians are Muslim so I'm referring to their belief.

Maybe you should go into the West Bank and say that.

 

[Hellcrow]

Read the tagged post, Jews had always intended to return to Israel, it is home according to the belief, all the people who did Aliyah to the country knew where they are going and why.

Palestinians don't. Jerusalem is not even mentioned in the Quran - not even once!

Ok, you must be a troll.

Ignore this one.

 

[Rapstah]

The Palestinians are Muslim so I'm referring to their belief.

Wikipedia quote:

By religious affiliation, most Palestinians are Muslim, particularly of the Sunni branch of Islam, and there is a significant Palestinian Christian minority of various Christian denominations. As the commonly applied "Palestinian Arab" ethnonym implies, the current traditional vernacular of Palestinians, irrespective of religion, is the Palestinian dialect of Arabic. For those who are Arab citizens of Israel, many are now also bilingual in Modern Hebrew. Recent genetic evidence has demonstrated that Palestinians as an ethnic group are closely related to Jews and represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times,"[15][16] largely predating the Arabian Muslim conquest that resulted in their acculturation, established Arabic as the predominant vernacular, and over time also Islamized many of them from various prior faiths.

 

[Clipjoint]

What's ironic is that people like soul are far more an existential threat to Israel than Iran or Hamas or the Palestinians ever can be.

 

[soul]

Maybe you should go into the west bank and say that.

It's funny that Muslims can walk around in Israel freely and are using the democracy to claim whatever it is they want, for example that I.D.F. are "murderers" , but if a Jew goes into an Arab-Israeli town 90% of the time he is almost kidnapped, gets his car stolen, people are throwing rocks at him, etc.

 

[flsh]

We walked down that path before when Sharon was P.M. What did they do with the territory we gave them? used it to build a Hamas base at the old University building, and positioning their rockets there so they reach even further. Funny thing is these fools are trying to hit the power plant that is near by all the time without realizing this is the same plant that is supplying their own electricity :lol

You simplify the situation way too much. Enough material was given in this thread already for me to bother posting links. What happened during the Sharon area has more to do with how corrupted the Fatah was. And that same power plant that gives them electricity, btw, is the one we use to give them power after destroying the one in Gaza. We don't do this as charity, we do it because we were scum and hurt their infrastructure. You can't spin everything they do as bad and everything we do as good. It can be done both ways and it's a joke. Both sides seem to want nothing more than to ruing the lives of innocent Palestinians, at least thats what you will understand after reading arguments about this region.

 

[gumshoe]

Do you know what a Palestinian is? There is no such thing, it is not a real nation, those are people gathered together from parts of the Muslim world that somehow ended up in Gaza. In reality they have no "real home", they were kicked out from everywhere, last iirc from Egypt or Syria.

So now there is no such thing as a Palestinian? That is just insulting. I am a Palestinian. My mom and dad are Palestinian, my grandparents and great grandparents are Palestinian. Don't go around telling me that I have no home!!! My mother's family had to leave their homes during the 1967 War. They had to walk from city to city and my. My grandparents and relatives are still living in Palestine all over the area.

You don't need an official name or borders to know where you are from and what land you should call home.

Just stop your ignorance!!! It is sickening.

what if I went around and said this?? how would you feel about that?:

Do you know what an Israeli is? There is no such thing, it is not a real nation, those are people gathered together from parts of Europe that somehow ended up in Gaza. In reality they have no "real home", they were kicked out from everywhere, last iirc from Poland, Germany, Sweden, etc..

 

[phalestine]

It's funny that Muslims can walk around in Israel freely and are using the democracy to claim whatever it is they want, for example that I.D.F. are "murderers" , but if a Jew goes into an Arab-Israeli town 90% of the time he is almost kidnapped, gets his car stolen, people are throwing rocks at him, etc.

It's funny how a Palestinian isn't allowed to even enter a settlement in the West Bank, you know the land that is supposed to be for the Palestinians. And stop referring to Palestinians as Muslims, there is a significant number of Christian Palestinians.

 

[soul]

Wikipedia quote:

By religious affiliation, most Palestinians are Muslim, particularly of the Sunni branch of Islam, and there is a significant Palestinian Christian minority of various Christian denominations. As the commonly applied "Palestinian Arab" ethnonym implies, the current traditional vernacular of Palestinians, irrespective of religion, is the Palestinian dialect of Arabic. For those who are Arab citizens of Israel, many are now also bilingual in Modern Hebrew. Recent genetic evidence has demonstrated that Palestinians as an ethnic group are closely related to Jews and represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times,"[15][16] largely predating the Arabian Muslim conquest that resulted in their acculturation, established Arabic as the predominant vernacular, and over time also Islamized many of them from various prior faiths.

The Christians are mostly located at Bet Lehem and do not cause riots as their fellow Palestinian Muslims, which is why their areas are quite and prosperous.

 

[jett]

Disgusting string of posts by soul.

 

[phalestine]

The Christians are mostly located at Bet Lehem and do not cause riots as their fellow Palestinian Muslims, which is why their areas are quite and prosperous.

Bet Leham is quite and prosperous? Where have you been living, oh wait...

 

[mAcOdIn]

The Palestinians are Muslim so I'm referring to their belief.

What does that have to do with a land claim? So land is to be divvied up by religious claim now? Atheists are fucked. You guys also were not first, it'd be the Canaanites. If you believe the fact you conquered them gives you rights to the land then you should've honored that mentality when you lost the land.

 

[soul]

So now there is no such thing as a Palestinian? That is just insulting. I am a Palestinian. My mom and dad are Palestinian, my grandparents and great grandparents are Palestinian. Don't go around telling me that I have no home!!! My mother's family had to leave their homes during the 1967 War. They had to walk from city to city and my. My grandparents and relatives are still living in Palestine all over the area.

You don't need an official name or borders to know where you are from and what land you should call home.

Just stop your ignorance!!! It is sickening.

what if I went around and said this?? how would you feel about that?:

We have a home, promised to us by God, located at the land of Israel.

Ask your mother's family why they left at '67, and why did Israel used a pre-emptive attack to defend it's borders. All the countries were about to attack. Come back and post again.

It's funny how a Palestinian isn't allowed to even enter a settlement in the West Bank, you know the land that is supposed to be for the Palestinians. And stop referring to Palestinians as Muslims, there is a significant number of Christian Palestinians.

Why should they? to cause another suicide bombing?

No, that land is not Palestinian, that land is no one's land, currently under Israeli control, at '67 it was under Jordanian control. Why is it yours? who said so, you?

 

[fortified_concept]

Do you know what a Palestinian is? There is no such thing, it is not a real nation, those are people gathered together from parts of the Muslim world that somehow ended up in Gaza. In reality they have no "real home", they were kicked out from everywhere, last iirc from Egypt or Syria. Most of the Palestinians are living in Jordan, it is a fact.

My God, you're a complete idiot. The irony, oh god the irony :lol

 

[victreeb3l]

We have a home, promised to us by God, located at the land of Israel.

I believe in XYZ and he promised the land was mine too. Get out of my land.

 

[phalestine]

We have a home, promised to us by God, located at the land of Israel.

Ask your mother's family why they left at '67, and why did Israel used a pre-emptive attack to defend it's borders. All the countries were about to attack. Come back and post again.



Why should they? to cause another suicide bombing?

No, that land is not Palestinian, that land is no one's land, currently under Israeli control, at '67 it was under Jordanian control. Why is it yours? who said so, you?

Well then to continue with your logic and generalization. Why would a Israeli want to go to a Arab-Israeli Town? to bomb more children?


And I find it more credible to have a physical being say something rather than a "supernatural creator"

 

[soul]

Bet Leham is quite and prosperous? Where have you been living, oh wait...

Yes it is, in spite of what you say. I've been there quite a few times.

 

[soul]

Well then to continue with your logic and generalization. Why would a Israeli want to go to a Arab-Israeli Town? to bomb more children?


And I find it more credible to have a physical being say something rather than a "supernatural creator"

We don't bomb Israeli towns......nice logic...

 

[gumshoe]

We have a home, promised to us by God, located at the land of Israel.

Ask your mother's family why they left at '67, and why did Israel used a pre-emptive attack to defend it's borders. All the countries were about to attack. Come back and post again.



Why should they? to cause another suicide bombing?

No, that land is not Palestinian, that land is no one's land, currently under Israeli control, at '67 it was under Jordanian control. Why is it yours? who said so, you?

I am going to play along with your "God gave it to me" argument. Doesn't the torah state that jews shouldn't try to take over the holy land by force, otherwise jews will never find peace in that area?? Doesn't it state that jews should wait until the messiah comes, then he will establish the divine kingdom??

 

[phalestine]

Yes it is, in spite of what you say. I've been there quite a few times.

Then why is the tourism and infrastructure damaged? you've been there right? What are the holes in the buildings?

also during the 2nd intifada http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1916580.stm

"Palestinian civilians in Bethlehem have to contend with an Israeli curfew "

so by quite you meant they arent allowed to leave their homes? gotcha

im done with you, you are obviously living in your own world and only want to believe what favors you.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

For those of you trying to trash soul for his "god" post, I invite you to simply read over the pledge of allegiance.

There's quite a huge difference between "one nation under god" and "one nation ordained and chosen specifically by god and death to anyone who dares say otherwise"

 

[dave is ok]

Did God happen to give the Jews a Deed for all the land in that area? It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that without paperwork - anyone can claim anything is theirs and was given to them by God. So if you just present a signed Deed from God to the Jews, you can have the land.

 

[fortified_concept]

Did God happen to give the Jews a Deed for all the land in that area? It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that without paperwork - anyone can claim anything is theirs and was given to them by God. So if you just present a signed Deed from God to the Jews, you can have the land.

Pffft. All the paperwork you need is in the Bible.

 

[phalestine]

Times like these is where I miss Edward Said most

 

[soul]

I am going to play along with your "God gave it to me" argument. Doesn't the torah state that jews shouldn't try to take over the holy land by force, otherwise jews will never find peace in that area?? Doesn't it state that jews should wait until the messiah comes, then he will establish the divine kingdom??

The Torah states that "Haba Leorgeha Hashkem Leorgo"; If you know someone is coming to kill you, wake up early kill him before. The Palestinians are, in fact, coming to kill us. Although we are only retaliating in the last few years, we did use pre-emptive attacks throughout history, for example the '67 war. The People in Gaza have elected a terrorist organization whose sole purpose is to kill all Jews and take control of the entire Israeli state.

About the Messiah, no. According to the Torah the Messiah will appear when all Jews will finally believe in god and pray. He will come and rule the land, making the entire world a better, more righteous place. Something like that I'm not quite certain what it says exactly, as I said I'm not exactly religious.

 

[Clipjoint]

Well, you know your bible is full of lies anyways. Like the whole "exodus" thing, where there is no evidence any such an event ever took place. And the whole existence of a god thing as well. Some ghost in the sky promising land to people that they can claim 3000 years from now :lol

 

[soul]

Something new, not exactly helping anyone but just shows what being a "peace activist" is all about nowadays:

http://news.walla.co.il/?w=//1682918

Turn up the volume. The captain of the flotilla replied to the Israeli Navy "Go back to Auschwitz", and later on "Don't forget 9/11 guys".

 

[fortified_concept]

The Torah states that "Haba Leorgeha Hashkem Leorgo"; If you know someone is coming to kill you, wake up early kill him before. The Palestinians are, in fact, coming to kill us. Although we are only retaliating in the last few years, we did use pre-emptive attacks throughout history, for example the '67 war. The People in Gaza have elected a terrorist organization whose sole purpose is to kill all Jews and take control of the entire Israeli state.

About the Messiah, no. According to the Torah the Messiah will appear when all Jews will finally believe in god and pray. He will come and rule the land, making the entire world a better, more righteous place. Something like that I'm not quite certain what it says exactly, as I said I'm not exactly religious.

I guess then after the ethnic cleansing is complete you have to start religious cleansing to get rid off all the atheists.

 

[Rur0ni]

Well, you know your bible is full of lies anyways. Like the whole "exodus" thing, where there is no evidence any such an event ever took place. And the whole existence of a god thing as well. Some ghost in the sky promising land to people that they can claim 3000 years from now :lol

Sad thing at the moment is that promise was enforced and continues to be.