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[Mohonky]

Why should the Jews be denied a homeland for themselves and no others if they desire it?

Thats like asking why you wouldnt just up and move if the international community just straight up decided that where you lived now belongs to someone else and that someone else took it upon themselves to just keep expanding the area they believe is owed to them outward and everytime you complain about it they respond with a military while you're stood there with nothing but a few rocks.

Noone is denying Hamas and militants arent exactly in the wrong also, they are recognised as a terrorist organisation for a reason and I can hardly see how they will ever achieve peace; the place is ready to erupt at the best of times. This however was completely unnecessary.

The decision by Trump to push the embassy into Jerusalem and recognise it as the capitol of Isreal was always going to end with violence. Trumps administration basicly said 'well fuck you I'll do it anyway' when everyone else said this was a bad idea. Netanyahu and the rest of the Israeli government are loving it, they're basically waving their dicks at the Palestinians and daring them to do something about it, then when the inevitable happens, they are responding in a way they know will incite everyone but who is going to stop them? Everyone's just going to give them a strongly worded 'we disagree with what you're doing' and thats it.

 

[bucyou]

The decision by Trump to push the embassy into Jerusalem and recognise it as the capitol of Isreal was always going to end with violence. Trumps administration basicly said 'well fuck you I'll do it anyway' when everyone else said this was a bad idea. Netanyahu and the rest of the Israeli government are loving it, they're basically waving their dicks at the Palestinians and daring them to do something about it, then when the inevitable happens, they are responding in a way they know will incite everyone but who is going to stop them? Everyone's just going to give them a strongly worded 'we disagree with what you're doing' and thats it.

Or if you were interested in the truth, Trumps administration basically said "well the 104th congress passed a law stating the embassy should be in jerusalem, lets go ahead and follow US law"

Despite passage, the law allowed the President to invoke a six-month waiver of the application of the law, and reissue the waiver every six months on "national security" grounds. The waiver was repeatedly invoked by Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama.[5] President Donald Trump signed a waiver in June 2017. On June 5, 2017, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed a resolution commemorating the 50th anniversary of reunification of Jerusalem by 90-0. The resolution reaffirmed the Jerusalem Embassy Act and called upon the President and all United States officials to abide by its provisions.[6] On December 6, 2017, Trump recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital,[7] and ordered the planning of the relocation of the embassy.[8][9] However, following the announcement, Trump signed an embassy waiver again, delaying the move, as mandated by the Act, by at least six months.[10][11] Legally, however, the U.S. embassy can be moved at any time without reliance on the Act.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

 

[Mohonky]

Or if you were interested in the truth, Trumps administration basically said "well the 104th congress passed a law stating the embassy should be in jerusalem, lets go ahead and follow US law"



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

.......and yet it never occurred to you that there might be a reason it was continually waivered? Apparently Clinton, Bush and Obama decided it probably wasnt a good idea. Cant imagine why.

 

[Ke0]

The people who were there were only there because they had killed the Jews who lived there and took over.

This isn't a really great argument since you could apply this to many countries and some only a few hundreds years removed from that fact...

 

[Mohonky]

This isn't a really great argument since you could apply this to many countries and some only a few hundreds years removed from that fact...

No but thats the crux of the Zionist argument. The only difference between that and say, the European colonies that were established in the last few hundred years is the belief that that region was gifted to the Isrealites by God.

The region has changed hands many, many times by numerous empires over thousands of years, but for whatever reason (well actually, its theological reasons) the general thought it that what happen 3000yrs ago is the point at which the decision was made that that area belongs to the Jews for now and all time.

If only other peoples had their own religious texts, they could claim back their land by pointing it out that God gave them their land and any settlement on it thereafter was illegal occupation by colonist. Alas they did not, so countriss like Australia, the USA etc may continue to exist.

 

[VAL0R]

If Palestinian children died, it was from the sins of their own fathers and mothers. Who allowed these children to be present at sites virtually guaranteed to see lethal violence? The Israelis promised to meet any attempt to breach the perimeter with death and the Palestinians, knowing this, vowed to do that very thing. And now 40+ are dead, for nothing.

 

[NahaNago]

There was always going to be backlash if the embassy was moved but I do think it will die down after a week or so. All this loss of life over an embassy being moved is just saddening and ridiculous. Seriously you became a martyr just becasue someone decided to use a different building.

 

[bucyou]

.......and yet it never occurred to you that there might be a reason it was continually waivered? Apparently Clinton, Bush and Obama decided it probably wasnt a good idea. Cant imagine why.

Apparently all 3 campaigned on the fact they would move it, and politicians being politicians, never did during their terms. Stop moving the goalposts, you insinuated that this was some crazy idea trump came up with, when in fact it has been campaigned on and actually passed into law well before. Hamas is squarely to blame for treating their citizens like meatshields and flinging them against the wall.


fuck trump for following the law as well


just.. lol

 

[mercenar1e]

Or if you were interested in the truth, Trumps administration basically said "well the 104th congress passed a law stating the embassy should be in jerusalem, lets go ahead and follow US law"



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

the one time he listens to congress. i wonder what happened when he failed to enforce the Russian sanctions/law passed by congress and signed by himself.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ew-russia-sanctions-despite-law-idUSKBN1FI2V7

 

[Spheyr]

This isn't a really great argument since you could apply this to many countries and some only a few hundreds years removed from that fact...

If they want to try to take it back, they're welcome to try.

 

[HagglesworthMD]

Every time I see something like this happen I am amazed by Israel’s restraint.

Imagine being surrounded by racist terrorists that want to wipe your countrymen from the face of the earth.. Love how the media goes for the ‘think of the children’ tactic. Maybe they should be focusing on WHO sent those children there, Hamas indoctrinates and gives incentives for innocent children’s death and destruction for their own political gain and the western media takes it hook, line and sinker.

 

[bucyou]

the one time he listens to congress. i wonder what happened when he failed to enforce the Russian sanctions/law passed by congress and signed by himself.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ew-russia-sanctions-despite-law-idUSKBN1FI2V7

You know you got nothing when you're busting out a january reuters link on a topic not at all relevant to the thread or topic being discussed!


I'll drop ya a april NYT link showing why the sanctions took extra time and were indeed implemented, may its essence allow you to post and rebuttle with on topic material next time

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/us/politics/trump-sanctions-russia-putin-oligarchs.html

 

[the.acl]

Looks like a pretty peaceful protest lol

P.S. Idk why but I have the feeling that some nut job is gonna try to bomb the U.S. Embassy and that's gonna make us send troops into Israel or something of that sort. You seen it here first folks.

 

[llien]

No homes are being confiscated in Gaza. Israel left Gaza in 2005.

Gaza used to be much bigger than now.
New settlements are being built in the West Bank, East Jerusalem.

Israel doesn't even know how many Palestinians live there.

It is one side of the conflict doing whatever it pleases, because the other side is so weak.

 

[womfalcs3]

Gaza used to be much bigger than now.
New settlements are being built in the West Bank, East Jerusalem.

Israel doesn't even know how many Palestinians live there.

It is one side of the conflict doing whatever it pleases, because the other side is so weak.

It is like his history knowledge only goes back to 2005.

Palestinian protesters had no firearms. Yet the Israelis shot them with live bullets anyway.

 

[Kadayi]

I mean they were pretty simple instructions to follow. If you want to leave don't cause a ruckus. Plus it's not friendly protesting. Their throwing malotov cocktails like mad.

So you're saying using live ammunition is how rioters should be dealt with? Presumably, you'd be A-oK if said rioters/protestors were BLM or Antifa then? Or is it somehow only acceptable if it's Muslims? Plenty of other police forces utilize no lethal means to disperse protestors, why should Israel be given a pass?

 

[Mohonky]

Apparently all 3 campaigned on the fact they would move it, and politicians being politicians, never did during their terms. Stop moving the goalposts, you insinuated that this was some crazy idea trump came up with, when in fact it has been campaigned on and actually passed into law well before. Hamas is squarely to blame for treating their citizens like meatshields and flinging them against the wall.


fuck trump for following the law as well


just.. lol

Again, none of them moved it. Geez I wonder why.

Following the law? The one that only the US and very, very few nations agreed upon? The US isn't the governing body of international politics. It should never have even been a US centric discussion as to where Isreal's capitol should be and 3 terms of Presidency waivered the move.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. It's nothing but a move to incite more animosity in an already unstable region. Completely unnecessary and will achieve nothing.

 

[JDB]

"It wasn't a peaceful protest" is a poor excuse for what happened imo. This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. If Native Americans in the US decided to start their own country and was slowly but surely taking over large chunks of America and driving out the population do you think other US citizens wouldn't try to use force to stop or at least protest them? I'm not gonna excuse all the things Palestine has done, but please don't act like is this some one-sided thing where the Palestinians brought it upon themselves. This is a complex issue.

 

[Dunki]

Victim Blaming all around in this thread. It's crazy what this place has become

The problem is that these so called Victims are either Hamas supporter or were encouraged by the Hamas.

If you want to blame someone for this it is the Hamas not the US or Isreal in my opinion. Many people wanted to move the embassy since years even democrates I think even Obama was talking about it. Hamas is a terror group and I think it is unbelievable that Countries like Gemany wanted to do nothing because it could cause more trouble. You do not negotiate with terrorists or terrorists states. Same with Iran. You do not negotiate with the Iran unless they change

 

[womfalcs3]

The problem is that these so called Victims are either Hamas supporter or were encouraged by the Hamas.

If you want to blame someone for this it is the Hamas not the US or Isreal in my opinion. Many people wanted to move the embassy since years even democrates I think even Obama was talking about it. Hamas is a terror group and I think it is unbelievable that Countries like Gemany wanted to do nothing because it could cause more trouble. You do not negotiate with terrorists or terrorists states. Same with Iran. You do not negotiate with the Iran unless they change

Then why does the US deal with Israel?

 

[Dunki]

Then why does the US deal with Israel?

Because they are the most sane people there. Israel is the way to establish peace. Hamas is not. Hamas is calling for jewish genocide.

 

[womfalcs3]

Because they are the most sane people there. Israel is the way to establish peace. Hamas is not. Hamas is calling for jewish genocide.

Israel is the source of the current instability. It cannot be both.

It'd be like Russia unilaterally ignoring US sovereignty and giving a group of people Washington, DC, and not expecting the residents of DC to protest. That group backed by Russia would be the source of the instability.

 

[i_am_ben]

Why should the Jews be denied a homeland for themselves and no others if they desire it?

I don't see anything wrong with what she said, it's all legitimately true facts, crack a Bible, look it up. It's all in there.

You're welcome to your opinion.

The people who were there were only there because they had killed the Jews who lived there and took over.

6/10 trolling.

You got a few easy marks, but you need to be more subtle.

 

[JDB]

6/10 trolling.

You got a few easy marks, but you need to be more subtle.

He has a gun with MAGA on it
I mean...

 

[Dunki]

Israel is the source of the current instability. It cannot be both.

It'd be like Russia unilaterally ignoring US sovereignty and giving a group of people Washington, DC, and not expecting the residents of DC to protest. That group backed by Russia would be the source of the instability.

So when a group like Hamas calls for violence and resistance Israel is at fault for the US doing something the US wanted to do for dozenz of years?

Hamas are the ones calling for genocide not Israel.

 

[Enosh]

Because they are the most sane people there. Israel is the way to establish peace. Hamas is not. Hamas is calling for jewish genocide.

and Israel is committing palestinian genocide

 

[appaws]

I understand the desire of Jewish people to have a homeland. Especially considering the context of the Holocaust and the long train of abuse that proceeded it. Further, I sympathize with their desire to maintain their nation as a Jewish ethno/religious-state, again considering that history of terrible oppression of the Jewish people. But I do not support their expansionist policies. And I do not support the pathetic lap dog support they get from US politicians.

But they, and their American lobby, should not have so much influence over US foreign policy. Think about it, every US presidential candidate has to go make an appearance at AIPAC and pay homage. Jews are 2% of the US population, but they contribute 25% of the money to the GOP, and 50% to the Democrats!

Source: The Jerusalem Post
https://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/...-all-donations-to-the-Democratic-party-468774

Do you think this does not affect American policy? People love to go around yelling about money in politics, well here is where the rubber meets the road! And pointing this out will get you accused of being an anti-semite, whether you are on the right (Pat Buchanan) or left (Campus Divestment Movement.)

 

[zelo-ca]

and Israel is committing palestinian genocide

And Hamas is bringing thousands of people using women and children as human shields to violently protest... This shit cuts both ways you know.

 

[TheMikado]

Well considering that 80% of the previous dead were found to have links to terrorist organizations I will take the IDF's word that they are targeting violent rioters. Also keep in mind that Gazan's are burning tires and using mirrors to purposefully blind the IDF.

You can find many images and videos of the fence being attacked or kite bombs being flown.

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-...ks-as-40000-take-part-in-Gaza-protests-556386

And again all info from the "Gaza Health Minsitry" = Hamas. Its like taking at face value press releases from North Korea. And as I wrote above Hamas is releasing propaganda to downplay the violence:

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12178/hamas-press-office

But we are talking thousands of people here, I have a hard time believing that every single one of those were violent terrorist rioters. I'm am not claiming there weren't any. My assertion is that thousands of people injured is incredibly high.

 

[TheMikado]

And Hamas is bringing thousands of people using women and children as human shields to violently protest... This shit cuts both ways you know.

You are blaming women and children for peaceful protests so your plan is to shoot up the women and children?

 

[zelo-ca]

You are blaming women and children for peaceful protests so your plan is to shoot up the women and children?

I am blaming Hamas for purposefully bringing women and children to use as human shields and being cowards. If they want to violently protest they should do it with dignity and leave their women and children at home.

 

[TheMikado]

I am blaming Hamas for purposefully bringing women and children to use as human shields and being cowards. If they want to violently protest they should do it with dignity and leave their women and children at home.

You’re dealing with terrorists, they aren’t going to fight fair and it’s no excuse for killing women and children.

 

[Dunki]

You’re dealing with terrorists, they aren’t going to fight fair and it’s no excuse for killing women and children.

But what can you do? Last week there was a whole family killing themselves talking a lot of people out. Children at the age of 3 are already getting trained with auto sssault weapons. These protetests were established by Hamas and Israel warned people as well.

Hamas were the ones causing the violence and escalated things.

 

[zelo-ca]

You’re dealing with terrorists, they aren’t going to fight fair and it’s no excuse for killing women and children.

Then I guess you would let them just breach the Israel border then? Since they would have their human shields up? Read the quote I had above, If they breached the border they were going to kill jews...

Plus the Israeli military gave them advance notice that they would do this if Hamas decided to do violent protests. I blame Hamas for doing it in the first place.

 

[Kadayi]

But what can you do? Last week there was a whole family killing themselves talking a lot of people out. Children at the age of 3 are already getting trained with auto sssault weapons. These protetests were established by Hamas and Israel warned people as well.

Hamas were the ones causing the violence and escalated things.

As young as 3? Care to back that statement up with some actual evidence

 

[TheMikado]

Exactly a 3 year old would t even have the body mass to withstand the kickback. The entire weapon would probably weigh almost as much as them. This is absurd.

 

[TheMikado]

Then I guess you would let them just breach the Israel border then? Since they would have their human shields up? Read the quote I had above, If they breached the border they were going to kill jews...

Plus the Israeli military gave them advance notice that they would do this if Hamas decided to do violent protests. I blame Hamas for doing it in the first place.

So your answer is to shoot up women and children? You can blame Hamas all you want but just because there are Hamas agents on a crowd doesn’t mean you can shoot up the entire crowd. That’s the point. You can shoot up Hamas all you want but there’s no excuse for firing on women and children who haven’t broken the law.

 

[Dunki]

As young as 3? Care to back that statement up with some actual evidence

Earlier this month the so-called Islamic State released a video of a three-year-old boy shooting a defenceless man to death.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/...g-so-many-children-in-their-propaganda-videos

I remember watching a documentary in which 3-5 year olds were taken to trips using automatic weapons etc. Can not remember the name of the documentary though.. Basically they are starting at birth getting manipulated and educated with math books showing weapons etc.

hamas propaganda video

 

[Spheyr]

6/10 trolling.

You got a few easy marks, but you need to be more subtle.

Why do you hate the Jews?

 

[Unknown Quantity]

You are blaming women and children for peaceful protests so your plan is to shoot up the women and children?

They have to start seeing them as humans before anything.

One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. To stop the apartheid in Palestine/Israel they have to start seeing them as equals, which has never been the case.

Nelson Mandela was a terrorist wasn't he, imprisoned for three decades, they'll never see the similarity obviously.

Ot, every time there are protests or clashes, live fire is used the Palestinian to Israeli injured or dead is always at least 50-100/1

 

[Spheyr]

Nelson Mandela WAS a terrorist, yes. His wife was an even worse monster. She was known for necklacing, putting a gasoline filled tire around a person's torso and arms, and lighting it on fire, burning them to death. Much like the Palestinians, their methods of painfully killing people were disgusting and they should have been wiped out.

 

[NickFire]

They have to start seeing them as humans before anything.

One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. To stop the apartheid in Palestine/Israel they have to start seeing them as equals, which has never been the case.

Nelson Mandela was a terrorist wasn't he, imprisoned for three decades, they'll never see the similarity obviously.

Ot, every time there are protests or clashes, live fire is used the Palestinian to Israeli injured or dead is always at least 50-100/1

Let's be real - their own leadership needs to see them as humans first and foremost instead of as potential martyrs. From what I have read, the Palestinian leadership encouraged their people to storm an area where they knew their people would be met with live fire. They can say whatever they want about proportionality. The fact remains they intentionally and knowingly sent people to get killed to "protest" a building.

 

[TheWatcher]

Best outcome is both sides wipe each other out.

 

[zelo-ca]

Let's be real - their own leadership needs to see them as humans first and foremost instead of as potential martyrs. From what I have read, the Palestinian leadership encouraged their people to storm an area where they knew their people would be met with live fire. They can say whatever they want about proportionality. The fact remains they intentionally and knowingly sent people to get killed to "protest" a building.

The Israeli military dropped leaflets to the Palestinians stating that if they did what they did that they would fire. They were forwarned. It is on the leaders of the Palestinians for going through with it despite the warning.

 

[cryptoadam]

But we are talking thousands of people here, I have a hard time believing that every single one of those were violent terrorist rioters. I'm am not claiming there weren't any. My assertion is that thousands of people injured is incredibly high.

An these injured could be a scrape on the knee or inhaling tear gas, or any other injury. And again all info from Gaza Health Minstry=Hamas, who have specifically "instructed" journalist on how to report on the story. And by instructed I mean threaten. To me its perfectly believable that the injured were involved or close to the rioting.

Here are some of the innocents killed yesterday that Hamas and the leftist media tell you about. One of them is 16!. I am sure Hamas and the media were quick to mention the age but leave out that the 16 year old was recruited as a child soldier for Islamic Jihad:

https://saraya.ps/post/54519/

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-...nted-a-Hamas-border-crossing-from-Gaza-556484

Hamas attacking with explosive and light weapons at the border.

But all you will read is how its a "peacfull" protest and everyone is "innocent"

 

[bucyou]

Amazing at how many people handwave off the fact that Hamas posted on social media the weak points of the fence it wanted its meatshields to breach, so that their "operatives" can rush in during the madness and slaughter jews. There are literally 40k-50k people at the fence, among them many throwing firebombs, kitebombs and burning tires to create smokescreens.

 

[cryptoadam]

There was always going to be backlash if the embassy was moved but I do think it will die down after a week or so. All this loss of life over an embassy being moved is just saddening and ridiculous. Seriously you became a martyr just becasue someone decided to use a different building.

It has nothing to do with the embassy. Its called the "Great Return March" and in Hamas leaders own words the goal is to breach the fence and rip out the hearts of the Jews.

 

[TheMikado]

An these injured could be a scrape on the knee or inhaling tear gas, or any other injury. And again all info from Gaza Health Minstry=Hamas, who have specifically "instructed" journalist on how to report on the story. And by instructed I mean threaten. To me its perfectly believable that the injured were involved or close to the rioting.

Here are some of the innocents killed yesterday that Hamas and the leftist media tell you about. One of them is 16!. I am sure Hamas and the media were quick to mention the age but leave out that the 16 year old was recruited as a child soldier for Islamic Jihad:

https://saraya.ps/post/54519/

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-...nted-a-Hamas-border-crossing-from-Gaza-556484

Hamas attacking with explosive and light weapons at the border.

But all you will read is how its a "peacfull" protest and everyone is "innocent"

At no point am I claiming that all those who participated were innocent.
I have no numbers, statistics or percents to how many were peaceful and how many attacked.
However neither does anyone here.

The point I made is we know thousands of people were injured.
We know various weaponry is being launched from both sides.

We know that there are unarmed and non-violent protesters including women and children caught in the middle of this.

Nothing justifies causing harm to them.
Nothing justifies Hamas using them and nothing justifies firing on or injuring them.

Why justify evil?

 

[cryptoadam]

Gaza used to be much bigger than now.
New settlements are being built in the West Bank, East Jerusalem.

Israel doesn't even know how many Palestinians live there.

It is one side of the conflict doing whatever it pleases, because the other side is so weak.

So Israel morphed Gaza's terriotry and made it smaller ? Gaza is the same size it always was. Israel left Gaza. And it got a terrorist Hamas government that rains rockets and builds tunnels and threatens to rip out the hearts of Jews.

No new settlements have been built in nearly 25 years.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...enjamin-netanyahu-jared-kushner-amichai-amona

East Jerusalem is a myth. For 3000 years there was never an East Jerusalem. It only existed because Jordan illegally occupied it, ethnically cleansed out all the Jews, destroyed 50+ synagoges and drew a line in the sand. Outside of those 19 years there was never a division of Jerusalem. If the UN in 181 didn't divide Jerusalem.

Did you know that Jordan occupied the WB for 20 years and then in 1988 rendered all the WB Arabs stateless when it stripped them of their (Jordanian) citizenship. And that in 1964 the PLO itself in its charter said they had no claim to the WB(and Gaza).

 

[cryptoadam]

I understand the desire of Jewish people to have a homeland. Especially considering the context of the Holocaust and the long train of abuse that proceeded it. Further, I sympathize with their desire to maintain their nation as a Jewish ethno/religious-state, again considering that history of terrible oppression of the Jewish people. But I do not support their expansionist policies. And I do not support the pathetic lap dog support they get from US politicians.

But they, and their American lobby, should not have so much influence over US foreign policy. Think about it, every US presidential candidate has to go make an appearance at AIPAC and pay homage. Jews are 2% of the US population, but they contribute 25% of the money to the GOP, and 50% to the Democrats!

Source: The Jerusalem Post
https://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/...-all-donations-to-the-Democratic-party-468774

Do you think this does not affect American policy? People love to go around yelling about money in politics, well here is where the rubber meets the road! And pointing this out will get you accused of being an anti-semite, whether you are on the right (Pat Buchanan) or left (Campus Divestment Movement.)

What expansionist policies exactly?

Since 1967 Israel has give up the Sinai and Gaza as well as Area A and B. The only place it builds in is Area C.

Israel has given up most of the green parts except for the Judea and Samaria parts. Israel has less terriorty today than it had in 1968!