Interesting...
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Geoff Keighley: PS4 Used Game DRM (EDIT: but now apparently on hold)
- Thread starter PopcornMegaphone
- Start date
Interesting...
I sort of imagine that the DRM is inevitable.
Publishers like EA seem convinced that if a person couldn't buy a game for £15/$20, they would buy it for £40 on launch day. Whilst this logic is extremely flawed, I think that console DRM will prove is that people will just buy less games, and be more specific about what they pick. Titles like 'Army of Two' will cease to exist, as they would have lost their market (rental, pre-owned).
The use of DRM would require a movement to a more free, PC game market. Otherwise, the £10/$15 'discount' that most PC games see, with similar restrictions, will highlight the ineffectiveness of the current console game cost model.
Publishers like EA seem convinced that if a person couldn't buy a game for £15/$20, they would buy it for £40 on launch day. Whilst this logic is extremely flawed, I think that console DRM will prove is that people will just buy less games, and be more specific about what they pick. Titles like 'Army of Two' will cease to exist, as they would have lost their market (rental, pre-owned).
The use of DRM would require a movement to a more free, PC game market. Otherwise, the £10/$15 'discount' that most PC games see, with similar restrictions, will highlight the ineffectiveness of the current console game cost model.
sublimit
Banned
Yup i think this is a very important point that many people forget.
NullPointer
Member
Fixed for what the fuck.
If you believe in this DRM so much, why not let the market decide by offering a real choice between the bone and the PS4.
Let me guess, this DRM scheme only works when the consumer has no choices.
Because it'd be against EU laws for starters.
Heh. In the Xbone: Microsoft blames the media for consumer rage. thread
Might want to practice what you preach buddy.
Winterfang
Banned
Glad to see Sony getting the same treatment as Microsoft in the random unconfirmed rumors, coming from misquotes and bullshit. Wait.. did I said Glad? I mean WTF GAF.
Dragon1893
Member
What are EA's options though? Ignoring the PS4? Not happening.
gundamkyoukai
Member
That is going to be interesting to see but this week has been a PR nightmare for MS .
If us bitching all the time made Sony change there minds i hope we can do the same for MS .
Pristine_Condition
Member
Yup. OP thread title is a big FUDish, at least at this point.
It's funny how Microsoft executives in charge of making policy for the XBox can have the actual words they said in terms of those policies be directly quoted by journalists and people, including some of the same journalists in that room at the time are all like "Bu..bu...bu...LETS WAIT AND SEE WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS!"
Yet for Sony, you don't have anyone at the company saying anything of the sort, and now the speculation on the other end of the spectrum runs wild, from some of those same journalists.
cleveridea
Member
Sony are in an ideal position
they can just say nothing and see how the chips fall
they can just say nothing and see how the chips fall
Well, guess I'll be cautiously optimistic. And I figure most of the ones that want this most are also going to be on PC anyway so fuck them on consoles, I'd actively want to pull them to PC instead and make them start viewing consoles as secondary, at least PC has a rock solid excuse rooted in ease of piracy for pulling some of this crap.
And if it's EA playing hardball and them going with it then yeah, fuck them. I mainly only cared about their games this gen because they turned around a bit momentarily and they bought Bioware, who subsequently got worse and worse anyway, it's the worst when it's publishers I don't give a crap about ruining it for me.
And if it's EA playing hardball and them going with it then yeah, fuck them. I mainly only cared about their games this gen because they turned around a bit momentarily and they bought Bioware, who subsequently got worse and worse anyway, it's the worst when it's publishers I don't give a crap about ruining it for me.
EA: "Online Pass is back and better than ever! Now exclusively on PS4."
I'd really prefer this from a Sony rep before I take the cliff dive. The Microsoft storm was made possible because Microsoft themselves said it all, or most of it. What we've heard from Sony is that the PS4 will support used games but how has not be determined. It will also not require an internet connection, again this was said directly from a Sony rep. I think the breaking point to me is that while most of us willingly submit to Steam's DRM and the loss of used game sales on the PC, we also get cheaper game prices out of it.
Who here honestly believes that Sony or Microsoft would lower the end MSRP for new PS4/Xbone games with used game fees? Instead, I'm of the full belief that used games fees will be treated as 100% bonus profit on top of $60 games. It would be different if new games cost say $45 but used games are now not as open as they once were (or were eliminated all together). They aren't likely to though and that is a real sticking point for me. If console makers decide to subject consumers to this there needs to be some consumer benefit given back. This is a two way street and that two way street is why Steam is so successful.
Who here honestly believes that Sony or Microsoft would lower the end MSRP for new PS4/Xbone games with used game fees? Instead, I'm of the full belief that used games fees will be treated as 100% bonus profit on top of $60 games. It would be different if new games cost say $45 but used games are now not as open as they once were (or were eliminated all together). They aren't likely to though and that is a real sticking point for me. If console makers decide to subject consumers to this there needs to be some consumer benefit given back. This is a two way street and that two way street is why Steam is so successful.
Miles Quaritch
Member
This puts a lot of pressure on MS, if true. A lot of pressure
MS can either continue down the current path or drop the anti used DRM/24hr check to offset any further backlash and be competitive with the PS4.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
I really hope these new anti-rumors are true... Sony was hitting all the right notes for me so far but if this aggressive DRM is part of their strategy, then they are not making a console for me, and I will not support it.
They will have to drop both of these for me to even consider their weaker, kinect-forced hardware.
They will have to drop both of these for me to even consider their weaker, kinect-forced hardware.
Kinect can be turned off in privacy settings
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57585620-75/microsoft-talks-xbox-one-naming-privacy-and-more-q-a/
and this thing about everybody lying... come on people now geez
Kun Aguero
Member
Very interesting, hope your right man. That MS backlash may have done some good.
Android is a open system, which brings the same effect as the PC market, this alone is enough to force Apple to adjust, and Microsoft mobile phones is a joke. Beyond that barreir to entry is completely different, and also the app market never had a used 2nd hand market for value adjustments, so I'm not sure why you think the same business models apply.
Jailbreaking isn't piracy...
WoolyNinja
Member
Even if Sony announces they're doing this... as long as their message is complete, concise and doesn't change on an hourly basis then I don't think they'll get as much hate. I think 90% of the reason MS got so much internet hate was because of the constantly changing messages coming after the show. They should've just stopped communicating for a couple of days until they all had a chance to get together and decide on a unified message.
Uno Venova
Banned
Wow, irony.
bigboss370
Member
swordsman720
Banned
I have expected no less that Sony has to follow the MS' route, or else they will get
Less supports from the publishers. See some comments a couple days back from the maker of Heavy Rain. They mentioned that they missed lots of incomes due of the second hands things.
Less supports from the publishers. See some comments a couple days back from the maker of Heavy Rain. They mentioned that they missed lots of incomes due of the second hands things.
I'm not going to pay full price for games I can't keep forever or sell at my discretion.
Hopefully MS / Sony / Valve will all address the latter issue. It needs to be.
Regarding the former - Valve has earned trust over the past 8+ years and it was very hard earned.
MS and Sony have much, much further to go.
Hopefully MS / Sony / Valve will all address the latter issue. It needs to be.
Regarding the former - Valve has earned trust over the past 8+ years and it was very hard earned.
MS and Sony have much, much further to go.
Magic Mushroom
Member
I'm in the Mortimer and Edge camp until proves otherwise.
Puppet Shadow
Member
It just occurred to me that nothing is stopping Sony from not using this DRM... for the first year or two. After they build up a decent base, announce that 'publishers pressured us into adding it'. Might be a smart thing to do.
I really, really hope Sony has the balls to just say no to whatever publishers are banking on this DRM BS. I wish Microsoft would do the same but it seems they are already in too deep to change course now. It just feels like console manifacturers are courting to these big publishers way too much. There are already enough money grabbing schemes with day one DLC, costume packs, online passes, season passes, microtransactions, etc. If you are that desperate to turn a profit maybe it would be a better idea to re-evaluate portfolio diversity and practice some rigid budget controls? All I want is for my discs to work like they always have.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Throw that goodwill in the trash. It's worthless. Just ask Blizzard, Bioware, and Square. It's completely, irrevallently WORTHLESS, and small minor windfalls in the here and now are of far higher value.
This isn't about pirates or used games. Wake up. This is about additional revenue streams that they can legally get away with if they want to - so they (publishers) are. That's all this is about. Fucking money.
charlequin
Banned
I'm doubtful that very many publishers are going to launch a game on one platform with this kind of DRM while letting it go on the other, for two reasons:
- Anti-used-game DRM combined with a traditional pricing model boosts sales of the top games at the expense of everything else, and every publisher wants to believe they're going to be shipping those "top games."
- A direct comparison would come dangerously close to proving that DRM doesn't actually translate into drastically superior sales and therefore would shake the edifice of anti-consumer groupthink that afflicts the industry.
Title adjusted. I buy that mortimer's sources are legit, but I don't have a lot of faith that "well we completely implemented and planned to launch this, but right now on a purely internal level we're having second thoughts because of a PR backlash against our competitor" will actually translate to a permanent removal of the feature.
The possibility of this happening was painfully obvious right after the Xbox One reveal. EA getting rid of their $10 pass and Xbox's used game drm... there was no way EA would get rid of their online pass if they didn't think Sony would have a system in place like MS.
We'll just have to wait and see what the real damage is in terms of fees and how strict their drm policy is. It's been a real lackluster reveal the last few weeks for next gen. This is probably the first next gen of consoles were none of my real life friends seem interested in any of the consoles.
We'll just have to wait and see what the real damage is in terms of fees and how strict their drm policy is. It's been a real lackluster reveal the last few weeks for next gen. This is probably the first next gen of consoles were none of my real life friends seem interested in any of the consoles.
Felix Lighter
Member
I get a sense that MS is underestimating the importance of early adopters and Sony is desperate to capture that audience right now. If they did make an internal change to the policy as a reaction to the backlash, I wouldn't be all that surprised.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
You really don't get it do you?
If you care about Microsoft, you have the obligation to show your discontent! Fuckin go apeshit if you need to! The same is the case with Sony. Staying silent and go easy on your prefered company is not the right path in this.
Majukun
Member
you could do both if you tried to vote with your wallet instead of accept every bullshit the industry throw at you...
the industry go where the money is,if you don't reward bullshit,that bullshit will chease to exist,but if you accept it just because you want to "play good games",well you are screwing yourself up..and all of us too in the process.
bigboss370
Member
oh snap.
encephalon
Member
If Mortimer is as credible as we are to believe he is, then I'm on the same boat.
Right. Except I will never buy a Xbone at any price if it's released as currently planned.
It's tiring reading all of the complaints from developers about lost sales. Everyone has to deal with lost sales, not everyone gets to change the rules of the free market and turn everyone into basically renters and resale agents for their benefit.
There are many jobs harder and more risky than being a software developer. These people need to wake up and deal with reality. If you are not making enough you are doing something wrong. Figure it out because the World isn't going to bend to your will.
Yep. I hated Steam at first. But they won me over with consistency, disabling "steam news" popups, and really cheap games. I think the average price I've paid is $15.
JordanN
Banned
Possibly. But then the real question is would that be the trigger?
Wii U sales have been anything but good and it comes short of PS4/XBO in power.
Well I hope this isn't true cause it means I won't be buying either next gen console. Which sucks but I think I'd be okay. I got a big stack of PS2 games, I'd double down on just buying PS3 stuff and I would focus more on PC gaming. Yeah yeah PC has DRM bah bah but guess what? PC games are dirt cheap and you can basically play them forever not just until the end of the console cycle or until a publisher decides to pull the plug on you.
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