Every Forza to date (and GT5) have the very same reward mechanic in career mode. There is NOTHING wrong with that basic system. Now if you want to argue against removing the Free Play option (which doesn't affect your career in F4) then I might agree.
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Greenawalt: "Disappointed in myself" from fan reaction; want to win fans back [Forza]
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Every Forza to date (and GT5) have the very same reward mechanic in career mode. There is NOTHING wrong with that basic system. Now if you want to argue against removing the Free Play option (which doesn't affect your career in F4) then I might agree.
These aren't strict, franchised sports games like Madden or FIFA or whatever. There is no clear teams or series to run accurately. For a lot of people, Forza and GT are racing and car collecting games and they're in a bit of a unique situation by being so. Trying to say they should be like FIFA just doesn't work.
This is just a difference of opinion here, man. I think both games do the right thing by not having all the content unlocked from the start. It drives people to play more(maybe not you, but others), incentivize driving skills and gives the games longer legs for people who aren't purely about the racing.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Fair enough, I reread it and could see that (although his wording is murky), though trying to distance himself from the 'refill the bar/coins/lives' mechanic isn't going to win any favors given the exorbitant pricing of the tokens, or the 60 dollar entry fee versus the (assumedly) free cost of the f2p systems.
I honestly don't see the problem with these kind of micro-transactions as long as they aren't thrown in my face. I don't want to see a pop-ups with: "Buy this car for only X-amount of dollars", with fancy colours and whatnot. But if it is embedded in the screen where you can buy a car with in-game credits (that you didn't buy with real money) I honestly don't see the problem.
Take Xbox Live for instance where you had the ability to buy games with the MSP or "real money" and you could change this by simply pressing the x-button. This isn't intrusive at all and shouldn't bother people so much. Wanting to earn money from people who have plenty is their right and only logical. But this should only be done as long as the normal customer, that isn't willing to pay, isn't being hindered by it.
It furthermore shouldn't be the case that they purposely make cars that much more difficult to obtain, only so people are forced to pay insane amounts of money for it. That is in my opinion only meant for Free To Play games.
Also: the people who are like, 'you guys are dumb you don't have to pay a penny you can still get loads of cars!'.
That's really not the point, please stop. The point is that, regardless of how quickly you can get the cars, they've added exorbitant microtransactions to a game that you have to pay $60 for in the first place and encouraged you, no matter whether effective, to buy them by removing features from previous games.
Whether you can still get loads of cars without paying is completely and utterly irrelevant.
That's really not the point, please stop. The point is that, regardless of how quickly you can get the cars, they've added exorbitant microtransactions to a game that you have to pay $60 for in the first place and encouraged you, no matter whether effective, to buy them by removing features from previous games.
Whether you can still get loads of cars without paying is completely and utterly irrelevant.
Ummmm. Just so you know. GT6 offers to sell you a $120.00 car money transaction. Yeah...sorta shits in your face don't you think, aaaaaaand destroys your whole point.
Look...Kaz isn't your friend. He's reaching for your wallet just like Dan Greenwalt is doing. The difference is Greenwalt is a bumbling idiot who can't play the PR game to save his own life, while Kaz can smile and hide it better. Don't be so naive! LOL. Theyre both assholes,and the Forza and GT series have suffered for this money transaction garbage.
So...
1. "It's not exclusive."
2. "Let's make it feel exclusive, so more work [grind] goes into obtaining it."
3. "Now people need to bypass this grind we've created, so they can pay their way into doing it."
4. "Now, let's raise the price of payment so it feels really exclusive."
Seems to me like the problem is one of thought process.
Who actually CARES about that? Who is sitting there going "man, I really wish that these cars were harder to get?" Sometimes, I like to just hop into free-play and zip through with a car I haven't got in campaign mode. When I've got friends over, we like to play whatever we feel like playing, not have to buy them.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Cool so this means the inevitable track packs will all be free DLC right?
I have respect for Greenawalt, but this is so much bullshit I had to read it three times to confirm it was what it was. Did Greenawalt start gaming yesterday? Cheats have been free forever, almost all the way back to the beginning of videogame history. At some time back in the days ALL games had built in cheats/god modes relatively easily accessible through commands. That you have to pay for them is a new thing.
NoPiece
Member
They should unlock Free Play now as a show of good faith. That is where they really have no legs to stand on.
SwiftDeath
Member
Then why the hell aren't all cars available in Free Play mode?
How the hell isn't that a paywall?
Wait, what? So their excuse for altering a free play mode designed to not have progression for the people with no time for career, is to handicap it to please the career people who have already chosen not to care about the free play mode, and then to bring back a way to negate the effects of that change, but this time for real money?!
Come the fuck on!
Because it's an online-heavy game and for a non-cheater like me, it kills my motivation to strive for the best cars knowing that other people don't have to put in any effort. So their solution is to charge money to reach parity with the ingame effort.
I don't agree with their solution though; forcing people to pay for cheats is not any better than giving them out for free. It still takes no effort
Orniletter
Banned
Thats exactly what I was thinking.
Their intentions are 100% clear.
They want more of your money, on top of the 50$ season pass .
Goes back actually to Forza 2 when they locked out marketplace features from Silver users. They restored them later but I was done with the series and it's shenanigans after that.
Nah, I meant 'Race'. Came with the system on the same tape that had 'Hoppit', 'Type A Tune', and 'Blitz'.
Radar Rat Race was sick though.
Eh, I dunno. I'll have to take your word for it because I don't have Forza 5. Reviews and user impressions seems to suggest that the game structure has changed though. Have you played the earlier games?
NullPointer
Member
If thats "doing the right thing" then why sell a way to bypass that?
If you want to respond to players who see no value in that grind, why not let them have at it? They paid for the game too. Why charge them obscene token costs when you can provide another mode tailored to those players? Like an unrestricted Free Play mode for instance.
It seems disingenuous at minimum to state that these in-app purchases have to be there and to be made expensive to protect the core of the game, when they're literally profiting off of doing just that. Turn 10 built these in-app purchase systems to be used.
Gimme another line, its been a bad year!
PedroLumpy
Member
So much BS.
Progression mechanics should be put in games for the right reason. To teach the player, to reward certain milestones etc. Simply by offering 'acceleration' micro transactions, their progression curve is not there purely for the right reasons. If that's the case they should be reducing the grind, not figuring out how much money they can charge you.
Progression mechanics should be put in games for the right reason. To teach the player, to reward certain milestones etc. Simply by offering 'acceleration' micro transactions, their progression curve is not there purely for the right reasons. If that's the case they should be reducing the grind, not figuring out how much money they can charge you.
plagiarize
Banned
but he's got so many credits man!
SkylineRKR
Member
I'm not trying to defend the guy but Forza 5 isn't as slow as a typical F2P game, thats what Greenawalt probably meant is his own distorted way.
I also wonder if he's cool with these decisions, Forza is his creation. I suspect this kind of shit comes from MS and if he's going to say 'yeah, you guys are totally right, this model stinks and I don't want it either' he's in trouble.
I also wonder if he's cool with these decisions, Forza is his creation. I suspect this kind of shit comes from MS and if he's going to say 'yeah, you guys are totally right, this model stinks and I don't want it either' he's in trouble.
I think that the idea of content locked behind skill level started to piss off a lot of casual players. And the response to that was "Pay to play now". Instead of "okay, just play everything now". To me (and I'm being careful here, saying this is just my feeling on the subject), progression is the best part of any game. If you unlock everything, with say a code, without the progression, that's not the game, all your left with is the mechanics of the game. If they had two options on the menu, "Drive any car now!" and "Play grindy progression career now to get to drive cars you want eventually", i'd feel that the majority of these career modes will go unplayed. Maybe that means that driving sims need to evolve past the GT style? Yet I don't know if I just want PC style sim where you buy cars and tracks and there is no "progression game" to play.
supernormal
Member
This. I haven't played the game more than a couple hours (been playing Killer Instinct a lot more) and I've literally only done 3 leagues and none of the bonus races. I'm at level 17 and I started with the Rx8. I have bought a Camaro(about 60 thousand) and Audi R8 (about 150 thousand) and a Mercedes SLS (about 250 thousand). I haven't spent any money on the game and my only complaint is that higher level races don't pay out more at the end of the championship. To be fair the A class and S class races are barely even difficult and you could probably make a 150,000 in an hour of gameplay.
Can Crusher
Banned
Every time I see an interview from this guy he comes off as PR fluff. He always tries to pass this image of super honest and earnest, humble guy who has a passion for games and cars but he never really says anything that simply doesn't sound like some PR guy would say.
If he wanted to save people's time, he wouldn't look at income, he would look at ways to save time. Like for example the age old cheat codes, or god forbid, a progression system that doesn't rely on ultimate grinding. Making it purchasable with real money says everything that needs to be said about his intentions.
If he wanted to save people's time, he wouldn't look at income, he would look at ways to save time. Like for example the age old cheat codes, or god forbid, a progression system that doesn't rely on ultimate grinding. Making it purchasable with real money says everything that needs to be said about his intentions.
DoubleTake
Member
Lol now lets see what you do for the next Forza.
I completely forgot something that I just thought of while reading your comment.
You can earn money in free-play now.
I would assume that is why they did it. I suppose they didn't free up the cars due to allowing those that like free-play the ability to buy more cars much like in career. Maybe they should have called it "Free Play Career" and had a separate "casual" mode with everything unlocked and no credits/winnings.
Progression is the reason I play a lot of games........its the reason why I love Test Drive Unlimited 2 and such.......compared to most wanted which allowed you to drive to any car and use it(pissed me off so much.)
NullPointer
Member
Hammer. Nail. Head.
Visualante2
Member
“Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his time in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to save time. And then he is so anxious about the micro transactions that he does not enjoy the game; the result being that he does not play in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really enjoyed the game.”
― Dorito Pope XIV
Then he sacrifices money to save time. And then he is so anxious about the micro transactions that he does not enjoy the game; the result being that he does not play in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really enjoyed the game.”
― Dorito Pope XIV
DieEnteWurzel
Member
So MT isn't important for income revenue
It kinda works like a cheat, but not quite because people need to feel "premium" about owning that awesome car behind the 100h grind wall
How about you just gibe the MT money TO CHARITY than?
I might just buy something then.
But this is just BS
It kinda works like a cheat, but not quite because people need to feel "premium" about owning that awesome car behind the 100h grind wall
How about you just gibe the MT money TO CHARITY than?
I might just buy something then.
But this is just BS
Unfortunately there seems to still be a significant contingent of people who see absolutely nothing wrong with the practice, and presumably now that they're aware that a lot of people have cottoned onto their insidious business practice, Turn 10 will be more careful about balancing it to make it less obvious in future iterations. The future of Xbone seems to be, 'no change of strategy, just more careful implementation'.
Zombie James
Banned
Going back to the DRM argument again about how it's our fault we didn't understand how awesome your vision is? Fuck off.
NoPiece
Member
I hope you are right, but what is especially gross and insidious about the microtransaction business model is that they can afford to lose a lot of fans (especially fans who wouldn't be participating in microtransactions anyway), as long as they are getting a very small percentage of "whales" who are spending tons of money on cars. They don't really want you or me as a customer anyway, they want these guys: http://richkidsofinstagram.tumblr.com/
They can't cause you need to feel a little shame buying it.
DrROBschiz
Member
You guys are missing the point
It may be tolerable for some of you now.... but if this is a acceptable practice you better believe it will bleed deeper into game design over time to the point where it will bother you
I can't relate to that mentality.
Firstly, playing a game shouldn't feel like work. Shouldn't your motivation for playing the game be that playing the game is fun and satisfying? If you're only playing a game to unlock cars, and your motivation to unlock cars isn't there if other people can get them by cheating, then it might be worth reflecting on whether you actually find the game mechanics enjoyable.
I can understand why people like feeling a sense of profession in games. You can get that satisfaction by levelling up and unlocking items but when that becomes the focus of the game it can become a Skinner box.
Interfectum
Member
Easier said than done.
The current line is "don't like it, don't support it" but the problem is PR and developers are finding insidious ways of making sure people continue to support microtransactions.
Nothing you or I say could possibly compete with the power of good game design trickery and PR messaging.
Clarkus Darkus
Member
I hate the fact they think were naïve and don't know how to think for ourselves and that they know whats best for us....
QuicheFontaine
Member
Just so you don't misread my intentions in repeatedly vilifying this game and telling people not to buy it: please stop putting microtransactions in your games.
That's your opinion. It's relevant to me because I'm interested in the career. I'm enjoying it and have felt no pressure to us any micro-transactions.
I've played every game in the series. I play nearly any sim that comes out across most platforms. I love sim racing and cars.
Point out that significant contingent here, or are you talking in general? They need to remove it. They also need to lose the idea of charging for cars we got in Forza 4 or any returning tracks. The people that would buy them are the same people that used them in the past and already paid for that experience.
I will not pay for the Ring, I have not bought any of the car passes or the Ferrari pack.
I think his statement that sim racers tend to be rich and this is the crowd who the micro transactions are aimed for is really really funny.... Like seriously there is so much wrong with this statement. What does he think sim racers are? They are probably the ones who vote hardest with their wallet.
Every single goal of F5, apart from tyres/physics, is the opposite of a sim racers Forza dream. Why in hell would this audience (who is generally quite clued up) be persuaded into mirco transactions, considering the game has hardly any new appeal over F4.
Every single goal of F5, apart from tyres/physics, is the opposite of a sim racers Forza dream. Why in hell would this audience (who is generally quite clued up) be persuaded into mirco transactions, considering the game has hardly any new appeal over F4.
DrROBschiz
Member
Not to mention that over time should these options prove successful its easy to see how those who pay begin to be the preferred target demographic over those who don't
Very scary
robertsan21
Member
Microtransactions, NO THANKS fucking assholes!
Dude this guys is just lying is fucking teeth off.
Dude this guys is just lying is fucking teeth off.
No, it isn't "fine". First off, this isn't a F2P game, it a full priced, AAA game. Also, it shouldn't matter what any consumers financial status is, or how much disposable income they may or may not have, everyone should get the same experience for their 60 bucks.
IF the game were F2P, it's understandable, you get basic game for free, pay to upgrade. THIS is NOT THAT. MS is doing their best to turn people away from their gaming business, and hurting the industry overall with this greed.