Having said that the dude cops a lot of flack from all directions on twitter
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GT IW: Marcus Beer strikes out at Jon Blow/Phil Fish over XB1 indie GI coverage
- Thread starter AHA-Lambda
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Having said that the dude cops a lot of flack from all directions on twitter
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
One 'good' game is not worth the shitty childish image that he brings to gaming. His tantrums and unprofessional, confrontational attitude tarnish the respectability of the medium. This isn't some faux outrage about a titty obsessed Dragon's Crown artist or whatever "opinion" piece Kotaku decides to churn out on a weekly basis - this is a guy who publicly revels in telling people to choke on his dick and commit suicide, two genuinely outrageous things to say.. and who then has the gall to play the victim card when the big bad internet comes to deal swift justice.
One game - one that of course was rife with its own host of fan upsetting development decisions, vile insults and that horrible cock sure attitude of his - is not worth having to put up with an asshole who brings nothing but junk to videogame discourse. He harms the credibility of other civil indie developers and would be better off not contributing further, for their sake. Just look at how Blow is being lumped in with his backlash, despite his comments being infinitely better.
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
I can't agree more with this statement. Twitter is hands down the worst place for game developers. The things I've read on that site from designers (both AAA and Indie) are rude, disrespectful, and can be downright disturbing. I'm not just singling about developers either; I'm talking about the whole gaming collective.
And your insulting comment is somehow better? Because you are not an internet celebrity, right?
It comes along with the territory when you've made a name for yourself like either of them have.
Can't have it both ways-- They choose to put themselves out there and then complain when they are sought after for their opinions. Childish.
By and large, I just want to play my stupid video games, and maybe chat about them with people who also enjoy video games.
I'd really rather not have to fight a constant battle to prove that the kind of stupid video games I like makes me a superior person, which is what indie douchnozzles like this chap encourage.
Nymphae
Banned
Lots of high horses around here. He called Fish a disgusting little prick for his tweets telling marcus to "compare your life to mine then kill yourself." Hyperbole or not, the guy's a prick.
Unreal Champ
Banned
Neuromancer
Member
Twitters not the problem. People acting like assholes on twitter is the problem. Most people I follow know how to act like adults on there.
Twitters just an outlet for people to show their true colors.
Canis lupus
Member
U got links to those articles?
They make amazing games? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Whats so funny huh? Tell me what the fuck is so funny about it?
Anyways, Braid wasn't amazing?
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
Yeah, that's a good point, I guess. I do believe that those people who show their true colors would never do what they do on a professional public forum.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Of course it is. Games matter far more than the personal images of anyone involved, especially someone like Fish, who is somewhat well known within the industry but unknown outside of it. And you're only worried about the industry's image as it's perceived by outsiders, right? It doesn't even make sense to worry about the industry's image within the industry. Don't let the messageboard shitstorms cloud your broader perspective. Fish's personal behavior has little to no impact on anyone, but a game like Fez is a solid contribution.
His erratic and sometimes irritating behavior doesn't harm anyone's credibility but his own, except in the eyes of irrational idiots.
Even if Fez wasn't that good, it's still worth having if the only cost is some loudmouth who is easily ignored.
I agree, the "kill yourself" tweet is totally not okay but I think we've all said something of that magnitude at some points in our life before. Thing is, we don't do it on a platform that reaches thousands of other users.
Twitter is a problem for people who throw little temper tantrums and say things they later regret- Which is sadly a lot of people.
Just don't have an account. I'm sure the world can wait a few hours until someone can formulate a calm, ordered reaction to something.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Braid was amazing. So was Fez.They make amazing games? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Beer does tend to get carried away and go off on half cocked rants (hes even apologised for that before) but thats his Annoyed Gamer schtick. Fish is entitled to name call back but it's how he does it in such an egotistical way thats annoying. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know about the suicide attempt.
I like Marcus, and I respect Fish as an artist, but they should both be ashamed of themselves today.
Marcus shouldn't have been that quick to jump the gun and lash out at Fish and Blow for something that's not really that significant.
Fish shouldn't reacted they way he did. Some of those comments are downright deplorable, and "cancelling" Fez II, really?
Marcus shouldn't have been that quick to jump the gun and lash out at Fish and Blow for something that's not really that significant.
Fish shouldn't reacted they way he did. Some of those comments are downright deplorable, and "cancelling" Fez II, really?
This. I completely agree with this whole post. Like I wrote in the Fez 2 cancelled thread, this has been a really sad day for this industry in general. So much immaturity and growing up that needs to be done on both sides. I feel like I stepped into a virtual high school with all the amount of unnecessary and stupid drama that usually happens with kids of that age. That whole twitter exchange between Phil and Marcus was absolutely embarrassing.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
They make amazing games? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
That's one of the things that makes it so sad, but they also swagger about the internet and have (or have been) set themselves up as potentates of video game goings-on. Fame can turn into infamy with alarming speed, as they have found out here, nor is it completely at their beck and call for sales boosts.
Who said that?
mullet2000
Member
My thoughts on the matter are basically this:
Phil Fish acted really stupid today. No doubt about that. But Marcus Beer also went way over the line with the personal attacks too. He said some really rude and hurtful shit with very little justifiable reason to do so.
Phil Fish is an A-hole sometimes, no doubt about it. But this hivemind internet hatred toward him is crazy and pretty stupid too. Most people don't even get the full picture before thinking he's a complete A-hole or something. People don't get the full picture from stuff like "Suck my dick and choke on it" - which was said to someone harassing him on twitter, nor about the whole "Japanese games suck" story, where he explained his position well beyond just that one quote and later apologized to the person who asked it, who accepted his apology just fine.
They also write off all of the harassment he gets daily on twitter and through other sources, and write off any harassment he gets from people like Marcus Beer with "HAHA well Fish is an A-hole, he deserves it!" And that's pretty gross, honestly. Yes, you have to try and ignore the idiots who spam hateful shit to you on twitter, but it can definitely be a hard thing to do sometimes.
Phil Fish acts like a dick sometimes, and that's his own fault, but it's pretty gross that people are so...vitriolic toward him. If you ever look at a lot of the shit that gets tweeted at him daily it's commonly a hundred times worse than anything he's ever said. Does he bring that on himself? To a degree he sure does. But man, the hate he gets is so, so caustic and in such huge numbers that I can see how it would affect him.
Phil Fish acted really stupid today. No doubt about that. But Marcus Beer also went way over the line with the personal attacks too. He said some really rude and hurtful shit with very little justifiable reason to do so.
Phil Fish is an A-hole sometimes, no doubt about it. But this hivemind internet hatred toward him is crazy and pretty stupid too. Most people don't even get the full picture before thinking he's a complete A-hole or something. People don't get the full picture from stuff like "Suck my dick and choke on it" - which was said to someone harassing him on twitter, nor about the whole "Japanese games suck" story, where he explained his position well beyond just that one quote and later apologized to the person who asked it, who accepted his apology just fine.
They also write off all of the harassment he gets daily on twitter and through other sources, and write off any harassment he gets from people like Marcus Beer with "HAHA well Fish is an A-hole, he deserves it!" And that's pretty gross, honestly. Yes, you have to try and ignore the idiots who spam hateful shit to you on twitter, but it can definitely be a hard thing to do sometimes.
Phil Fish acts like a dick sometimes, and that's his own fault, but it's pretty gross that people are so...vitriolic toward him. If you ever look at a lot of the shit that gets tweeted at him daily it's commonly a hundred times worse than anything he's ever said. Does he bring that on himself? To a degree he sure does. But man, the hate he gets is so, so caustic and in such huge numbers that I can see how it would affect him.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Not so funny now is it?
What? Marcus Beer literally said that, and more than once. I'm watching this shitty podcast right now.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
They make amazing games? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Dude what? Both were sublime.
When did he talk about them getting treated like shit and just dealing with it? He's talking about them being asked to comment on a developing story. Being emailed questions is now being treated like shit?
We already had this discussion about Angry Joe at E3. Stop talking before you make this thread dumber.
When you're a child, yes.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Looks like you're not sure who to blame for their "internet fame." If they set themselves up, then maybe they deserve ridicule or have some responsibility to others to comment on things (if one can have such a responsibility). If, on the other hand, they were elevated by the words of others, through no ambitions of their own, then they don't deserve ridicule nor are they responsible for anything.
dear lord.
I mean being treated like shit by Microsoft. Now that Microsoft has seemingly "done good", devs should just suck it up. That's what Beer said.
Scapegoat
Member
Weren't both Blow and Fish burned by MS? And Marcus tries to get them to comment on MS's rumored indie plans, after both Blow and (presumably) Fish have moved on to better/nicer options, leaving that nightmare behind?
It would be like getting called up to comment on how your abusive ex was now promising to be fair and kind and won't ever hurt anyone again (promise!), oh, and would you like to comment on it? Their frustration stems from wanting to put all the shit they went through (with respect to shitty publishers) behind them so they can concentrate on making games.
I mean leave them alone and let them make their game. Yes, they will be coming to you when it's time to promote their game, but YOU'LL ALSO WANT THEM TO PROMOTE THEIR GAMES THROUGH YOUR PUBLICATION - SO IT'S NOT A ONE WAY STREET.
Sub-par games... Below the average.... Can you please enlighten me to all the other puzzle platformers that are simply "average", but are of better quality than Braid and Fez?
Yeah, this was ridiculous and embarrassing from the beginning, so it seems Beer was playing to his strengths.
And it could have just petered out there, minutes later, when Marcus' rage-boner went limp.
Then Fish had to be all like "I hope you die" and round 2 was initiated.
Beer and Fish make a great combo, I'd say. And it's kind of hilarious how often Blow gets swept along in the middle school drama when he's such an articulate, levelheaded guy.
terrdactycalsrock
Member
It seems like indie guys are doing great. Sony and Microsoft are even fighting over them. Also, the press is really loving them. I listened to the part of IW where Marcus talks about this issue. He was criticising Fish and Blow but he was also very polite. Even as going as far to say I dont like Fez but I respect that a lot of people do. Fish on the other hand is acting like a baby. Hes even telling the Marcus to examine his life and kill himself. And while Marcus was respectful to Fez, a game he doesnt like, Fish attacks him on a professional level. He calls Marcus a media leech.
Yes, Fish and Blow are very popular and that kinda implies that they will be asked to comment on things in the indie scene. Im not saying they have to, but when GI asked for a comment Fish could've just said "No Comment" and left it at that.
Where's your proof this was what caused Marcus to call people out?
My thoughts also.
What.
Unreal Champ
Banned
Chill out dude, look like you about to get upset over my post.
No they weren't. They really weren't amazing games at all.
They were both very sub-par boring games that were highly overrated and overhype.
mullet2000
Member
Dude what?
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Let's stop using dumb words like "amazing" and accept the fact that many, many people really enjoyed those games and that's what's relevant.
terrdactycalsrock
Member
Well, it looks like I've missed something lol. Like I said I just watched the first few mins of IW and that is what Marcus said. But clearly Im missing something
If Marcus came up and said that kind of shit to Phil at a bar to his face, and he reacted in an aggressive and immature way in return, no one there would really bat an eye. The internet kind of sucks sometimes, magnifying and deconstructing everything, and regardless of the kind of guy Phil may be in relation to his online persona the man has clearly been worn down by years of casually being shit on by strangers at the very mention of his name. Stupid story, but there's lessons to be learned on all sides here.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
I think Blow made the point that all the information that was important wasn't even out there yet and so making a statement about it would have been premature at best.
Which is reasonable, I think. Obviously they could have gone about it better, but Beer being an asshole was completely out of line.
Which is reasonable, I think. Obviously they could have gone about it better, but Beer being an asshole was completely out of line.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Oh, I know the score, but I need to guide both sides on this divisive issue to see this fact I'm pointing out.
Canis lupus
Member
Thanks.
Thought I'd quote Pesci from the Goodfellas bar scene after seeing that Ray Liotta gif.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Just to be clear, everyone in this situation is being a precious baby. There are no "sides" here.
Beer shouldn't have reacted so angrily to not getting a comment. People can refuse to comment on stories, no matter how relevant their opinion might be. It happens.
Blow immediately went on the defensive, blaming "the internet" at large for nothing in particular and disassociating himself from a nebulous "you guys," while also acting incredibly prissy about declining to comment as if he was some martyr for doing so.
Fish doesn't really need any explanation. He flew off the fucking handle and I sincerely hope he gets the help he so clearly needs. He's an incredibly talented guy but this whole drama queen victim show does not excuse him from abhorrent behavior like his Twitter tirade or telling Beer to kill himself. For shame.
Honestly, everyone needs to go sit in a corner for a while.
Beer shouldn't have reacted so angrily to not getting a comment. People can refuse to comment on stories, no matter how relevant their opinion might be. It happens.
Blow immediately went on the defensive, blaming "the internet" at large for nothing in particular and disassociating himself from a nebulous "you guys," while also acting incredibly prissy about declining to comment as if he was some martyr for doing so.
Fish doesn't really need any explanation. He flew off the fucking handle and I sincerely hope he gets the help he so clearly needs. He's an incredibly talented guy but this whole drama queen victim show does not excuse him from abhorrent behavior like his Twitter tirade or telling Beer to kill himself. For shame.
Honestly, everyone needs to go sit in a corner for a while.
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