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GT IW: Marcus Beer strikes out at Jon Blow/Phil Fish over XB1 indie GI coverage
- Thread starter AHA-Lambda
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Nintendo refuses quite often to comment on stories yet alone stupid rumors. I guess Marcus wouldn't dare and call them out for doing that but he can with indies? What a pussy.
Its one thing to say "no comment". Its another thing entirely to say "why the hell do you guys keep asking us for comments, its so annoying, go bother someone else"
dear lord.
I mean being treated like shit by Microsoft. Now that Microsoft has seemingly "done good", devs should just suck it up. That's what Beer said.
Where? Is this after the first 5 minutes when he's talking about Blow and Fish whining about answering emails?
Weren't both Blow and Fish burned by MS? And Marcus tries to get them to comment on MS's rumored indie plans, after both Blow and (presumably) Fish have moved on to better/nicer options, leaving that nightmare behind?
It would be like getting called up to comment on how your abusive ex was now promising to be fair and kind and won't ever hurt anyone again (promise!), oh, and would you like to comment on it? Their frustration stems from wanting to put all the shit they went through (with respect to shitty publishers) behind them so they can concentrate on making games.
I mean leave them alone and let them make their game. Yes, they will be coming to you when it's time to promote their game, but YOU'LL ALSO WANT THEM TO PROMOTE THEIR GAMES THROUGH YOUR PUBLICATION - SO IT'S NOT A ONE WAY STREET.
Marcus didn't try to get them to comment on anything. He wasn't writing anything about it. Publications and websites asked them for a comment regarding the developing story and I have no idea why an analogy about exes makes any sense. These are veterans with experience being asked to comment on something deeply relevant to what they do. Who else should journalists go to to ask about it?
JennyTablina
Member
Just to be clear, everyone in this situation is being a precious baby. There are no "sides" here.
Beer shouldn't have reacted so angrily to not getting a comment. People can refuse to comment on stories, no matter how relevant their opinion might be. It happens.
Blow immediately went on the defensive, blaming "the internet" at large for nothing in particular and disassociating himself from a nebulous "you guys," while also acting incredibly prissy about declining to comment as if he was some martyr for doing so.
Fish doesn't really need any explanation. He flew off the fucking handle and I sincerely hope he gets the help he so clearly needs. He's an incredibly talented guy but this whole drama queen victim show does not excuse him from abhorrent behavior like his Twitter tirade or telling Beer to kill himself. For shame.
Honestly, everyone needs to go sit in a corner for a while.
This is pretty much my feelings on the situation, while I think Marcus should of really known better and not fussed like he did. I think Phil did himself no favours by acting like a social bull running for all the red flags everyone started waving in his direction as a direct result. I feel sorry for him because I sense it's a social issue he deals with and never has gotten it sorted nor desires to. He just makes life harder for himself than it really needs to be.
Publishers and Developers play the game as much as Fish and Blow do. They are forthcoming when they want to be, and throw out "No comments" like no business or coyly worded answers when they don't want to play ball. This was just the indie version of that, only the indies should of just let Marcus's response speak for itself and left well alone without any rebuttal. Sometimes the best way to say things is to say nothing at all.
Nintendo doesn't publicly lambast reporters who dare to ask them for a comment.Nintendo refuses quite often to comment on stories yet alone stupid rumors. I guess Marcus wouldn't dare and call them out for doing that but he can with indies? What a pussy.
TerryWogan
Member
I don't really know much about Fish's past misdemeanours, but I have to say, this "AngryGamer" guy is a joke.
It's one thing complaining about games - about design decisions, about DLC and pre-order bullshit - whatever, but to call a person a tosspot, arsehole and whatever else is just stupid. What on earth does this bring to gaming discourse? What service is he providing from a journalistic point of view?
The subsequent fallout aside, "AngryGamer" is at fault here.
Even his colleagues were rolling their eyes at his ill-conceived rant.
It's one thing complaining about games - about design decisions, about DLC and pre-order bullshit - whatever, but to call a person a tosspot, arsehole and whatever else is just stupid. What on earth does this bring to gaming discourse? What service is he providing from a journalistic point of view?
The subsequent fallout aside, "AngryGamer" is at fault here.
Even his colleagues were rolling their eyes at his ill-conceived rant.
Its one thing to say "no comment". Its another thing entirely to say "why the hell do you guys keep asking us for comments, its so annoying, go bother someone else"
I agree. But "gaming journalists" these days hunt for free exclusives. It's all they do. It was time for somebody to snap and tell them to fuck off and do some real work. Still, it was not the most elegant way and I'm not trying to defend him.
Most "gaming journalists" these days can't do more than quoting developers in "exclusive articles" with 3 lines of text. That is not journalism. But they succeed with this crap because they get tons of hits, traffic and comments. It's just sad.
I'm not excusing Fish but imagine someone coming up to you asking you the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and other people shouting insults at you wishing you got hurt etc..
Eventually you would just crack like Fish has.
I don't give a toss what you think about my apologist remark, you seem to be the only one picking apart everyone's post piece by piece to try and defend him.
You know why he gets asked so much? It's because he couldn't shut up about Microsoft's self-publishing (among other things) policy. It's not like the questions came to him out of nowhere. Both him and Blow had no problems talking all kinds of shit when they got an inkling that there was something negative but now that Microsoft has seemingly done what they've been whining about all year, they're tired of talking about and/or want to wait until they get every single detail, which wasn't a requirement any other time they talked about Microsoft.
It wouldn't even have been that big of a deal had they just said "no comment" or that they were waiting to hear more but Blow went off on an irrelevant tangent about journalism and Fish lost his mind.
I agree. But "gaming journalists" these days hunt for free exclusives. It's all they do. It was time for somebody to snap and tell them to fuck off and do some real work. Still, it was not the most elegant way and I'm not trying to defend him.
Most "gaming journalists" these days can't do more than quoting developers in "exclusive articles" with 3 lines of text. That is not journalism. But they succeed with this crap because they get tons of hits, traffic and comments. It's just sad.
Hunting for free exclusives or not, asking questions is a journalists primary job. Knock them for the shit they write, not the basis of their job.
I find the fact that video game makers have personalities almost as funny as the "journalists" that complain about them.
Write about the games. The End. If you are making games and you are not interested in talking to the journos, just don't answer.
Edit: And for fucks sake if someone is writing about your games and you intend to answer, especially if you have been outspoken earlier, be prepared to get questions surrounding everything around development. Not all "journalists" have a secret brain network where they share info, so repetitive questions are bound to occur.
Write about the games. The End. If you are making games and you are not interested in talking to the journos, just don't answer.
Edit: And for fucks sake if someone is writing about your games and you intend to answer, especially if you have been outspoken earlier, be prepared to get questions surrounding everything around development. Not all "journalists" have a secret brain network where they share info, so repetitive questions are bound to occur.
danielreis
Neo Member
I think Marcus argument is pretty spot on.
They are two of the most proeminent indies. They are respected. They are also both very vocal against Microsoft. When Microsoft change their policies about indies, its just make sense to ask for their opinion. And they did complain about it and sounded like whiners. And agressive against the gaming press.
Well, but that is a two way street. That's the way this works. You do a movie, you promote your games, you are vocal against a company and share a lot of opinions about their policies. And now you don't want the press to e-mail you questions (and come on, from a PR perspective, thats a really good thing, free press-space, more name for you)? Ok, just ignore. But no, you have to make jokes and bitter remarks about it.
And the Phil reaction... its so out of proportion. Marcus comments were not that bad, aside the hipster thing.
They are two of the most proeminent indies. They are respected. They are also both very vocal against Microsoft. When Microsoft change their policies about indies, its just make sense to ask for their opinion. And they did complain about it and sounded like whiners. And agressive against the gaming press.
Well, but that is a two way street. That's the way this works. You do a movie, you promote your games, you are vocal against a company and share a lot of opinions about their policies. And now you don't want the press to e-mail you questions (and come on, from a PR perspective, thats a really good thing, free press-space, more name for you)? Ok, just ignore. But no, you have to make jokes and bitter remarks about it.
And the Phil reaction... its so out of proportion. Marcus comments were not that bad, aside the hipster thing.
PaladinXII
Member
I agree. But "gaming journalists" these days hunt for free exclusives. It's all they do. It was time for somebody to snap and tell them to fuck off and do some real work. Still, it was not the most elegant way and I'm not trying to defend him.
Most "gaming journalists" these days can't do more than quoting developers in "exclusive articles" with 3 lines of text. That is not journalism. But they succeed with this crap because they get tons of hits, traffic and comments. It's just sad.
We approached them, and I don't think spending a week tracking down leads and sources for this story, which we broke, would be considered by any rational person to be "free."
Our requests for comment came after we published our story, which was backed by multiple sources (and finally confirmed later to be true by Microsoft), and then again after as much detail as we have now was committed to on the record by Microsoft. What many fail to realize is that we hear "no comment" (or variations thereof) dozens of times a week. We do not often get publicly lambasted for asking developers (who have been very vocal with criticisms of these exact policies) if they would like comment.
We never demand comment, nor do we ever expect one. We are always grateful when we get one, and we take the utmost care to accurately reflect the tone and content of that message. Nothing we do is flippant or for hits. We do it to educate and inform our readership.
I understand there is mistrust amongst some segments of the population, but to discredit and devalue the work we put in to bring you information (information that publishers, developers and platform holders would very much like us NOT to share), is unfair.
I think Marcus argument is pretty spot on.
They are two of the most proeminent indies. They are respected. They are also both very vocal against Microsoft. When Microsoft change their policies about indies, its just make sense to ask for them. And they did complain about it and sounded like whiners. And agressive against the gaming press.
They've also been talking about this specific issue since E3 ended.
mr teaspoon
Member
This whole thing keeps reminding me why I hate any-and-everyone who calls themselves 'The Annoyed Gamer' or 'The Angry Videogame Nerd' or 'The Rage-Filled ______'.
For one, the schtick gets old SO. QUICKLY. I get that it likely comes from very real aspects of his personality, but it does inevitably become a stage presence and nobody can portray themselves as angry or irritated all the time and not eventually just come across like an asshole.
Two, I think it limits the scope of where you can expect to fit in in regards to games journalism. OK, fine, Marcus Beer wants his 'thing' to be that he rants. And that's great when we want to listen to somebody tear into the Xbox One, but is that the same person we want to get our gaming news from? Does some guy who makes his living off being Mr. Gamer Asshole really get to be indignant when other people don't take him seriously/don't give him comments?
For one, the schtick gets old SO. QUICKLY. I get that it likely comes from very real aspects of his personality, but it does inevitably become a stage presence and nobody can portray themselves as angry or irritated all the time and not eventually just come across like an asshole.
Two, I think it limits the scope of where you can expect to fit in in regards to games journalism. OK, fine, Marcus Beer wants his 'thing' to be that he rants. And that's great when we want to listen to somebody tear into the Xbox One, but is that the same person we want to get our gaming news from? Does some guy who makes his living off being Mr. Gamer Asshole really get to be indignant when other people don't take him seriously/don't give him comments?
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