Immortal Technique
Member
Of course. That should be noted in reviews. But it doesn't mean the game sucks.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
GTA V is Getting Hammered By Steam User Reviews. "Save Open IV" Petition over 40k
- Thread starter bud23
- Start date
Of course. That should be noted in reviews. But it doesn't mean the game sucks.
Immortal Technique
Member
I mean... if you still have the energy, that's a pretty interesting remark that could use elaboration.
But without mods, it does suck.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Its one of last gens greatest game, in no way does this base game suck.
Gamers have the worst hyperbole
DaciaJC
Gold Member
In general, it doesn't, but it can be a very good reason for someone to not recommend it to others.
That's an exaggeration, fine you don't find the game fun without adding your "own". I don't care much for it either, with mods or without. But games like Skyrim, Fallout 3 and GTA are very popular and critically acclaimed even without the mods salvaging them. Mods give more legs to these games for sure, but they are not widely considered dumpster fires without them. There are some games that are considered great only after modding in missing content and fixing worst bugs.
Sorry to tell you, but it does. Crappy grindy online mode + linear-ass story mode with barely any different options available of tackling out missions despite the huge sandbox created around it.
It's a bad game without mods, and other people agree with this. Hence, you know, the negative reviews.
Fallout 3 is also terrible without mods.
Why are people buying these games in high quantitys on consoles then and critics reviewing them high, when it was never possible to play the games in a state that could be considered good or even decent?
As I said, it's fine that you don't like the game not a huge fan either. But you are trying to make it seem that it's a bad quality product as a fact.
Kssio_Aug
Member
A whole different situation, because I think with GTA we're not going nowhere after all we talked: Nier Automata. It's a great game; for some totally playable... still it got quite an amount of negative impressions on Steam because the game is a technical mess.
Making a good game (good gameplay, good writing, good story, good graphics) is just one requirement for a recommendation. There are other things that can legitimately reason a negative impression though, such as waiting the game to sell as much as possible to those who likes a feature supported by the community (aka mods) and suddenly remove it's access.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
People only bought gta 5 cause they wanted to play mods.
Please ignore gta5 still being in top 10 console sales list after 3 years
Some people have terrible taste, news at 11.
"But you are trying to make it seem that it's a bad quality product as a fact"
Are you not doing like the exact same thing just with "good" instead of "bad"? Not every game is considered good by everyone, press conference at 12
Yes but I'm not basing it on my own personal opinion or tastes, I'm basing it on critical and commercial succes. It's a game that enthralls the hardcore and casual audiences and everything between. The people reviewing GTA V negatively in Steam just have a terrible taste too I suppose?
And if someone changed their review from positive to negative because of this, they were using the review tool to help others in a wrong way to begin with. You are not reviewing mods when you write a Steam review, if the game is bad without mods then you give it negative review from the start. That shouldn't be that hard to understand. It's misleading to other consumers.
JetSetRadio
Banned
RDR2 online is going to be amazing.
Kssio_Aug
Member
Because... ?
OminoMichelin
Member
Think of all the fun bucks you can buy with real money!
It's coming to PC?
SHARK PACKS, MORE LIKE FUN PACKS AMIRITE???
Because it is made by his favorite videogame company that can do no wrong
The Steam Reviews are supposed to be your own individual reviews, not "let's regurgitate the general consensus about this game"
Dick Justice
Banned
Opinions, how do they work?
Gamers are also some of the most sad, pathetic corporate apologists I've come across.
joecanada
Member
oh it will have mods? great news!
also shark cards to be replaced by vulture cards for accuracy and ......... accuracy.
Kssio_Aug
Member
Yeah, I was wondering if he would ignore everything we said last page and straight up say again "because fuck mods".
Coreda
Member
Just imagine the fit people would throw if Bethesda deemed the modding of their games illegal. It's part of the reason some continue to buy the game.
While for others its not. But those wouldn't be the ones leaving negative reviews.
respawnIN10
Banned
Unplayable without Mods? If I ever paid $60 for a game that's unplayable out of the box and let it sit until someone "fixed" it, well that'd be outright insane!
You know what would be even crazier than that? Actually asking the devs to include said features! How crazy of an idea is that? Maybe even start a petition of some sort....
wait, my mistake, I'm in the GAF forums.
You know what would be even crazier than that? Actually asking the devs to include said features! How crazy of an idea is that? Maybe even start a petition of some sort....
wait, my mistake, I'm in the GAF forums.
Well sure, it's a different situation.
It is playable. But it's a bad game. I'm note sure what your issue is with people buying a game because of mods. Do you hate modding that much?
Yeah, it is. Just wanted to know if you consider that as a clear cut issue too, since I didn't see you in that particular thread sharing your views.
Absolutely it's understandable. And even though I dislike Skyrim and Fallout 3 much more than GTA V, I'd still be disappointed to see user reviews skewed in that way. I just don't see the value for the consumer using Steam reviews as a guidance when people use if to vent on in specific hot button issues, in this situation and unrelated. Though as I said earlier, maybe I am being too idealistic or even naive in thinking it could ever be more than that. Doesn't work in Metacritic user scores either, atleast in Steam you need to own the game.
Seems like this has reached Metacritic too, but not as quite impactful to the "score" as it has been on Steam.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
This. People keep saying "vote with your wallet" but we didn't know and I figure people will vote with their wallets (when they have the opportunity to in a year and a half assuming we get a Red Dead port). Do you think the publisher will make that connection though? They'll just see decreased sales and chalk it up to the Western setting. The argument that needs to be made and visible to shareholders is "why is Rockstar/Take Two rocking the boat and ruining a good thing resulting in free marketing that is better than anything they've paid for with their massive advertising budget? These people weren't buying shark cards anyways".
Sure, I'll "vote with my wallet" going forward but my act of protest won't be publicized and it's ridiculous to have that kind of response when news stories have a shelf life of 48 hours maximum in today's climate. It's not like I had the knowledge they'd do this. We had a decade and a half of precedent of Take Two/Rockstar being totally cool with modders/equivalents of FiveM (CitizenIV/SAMP/Multi Theft Auto).
BebopMcJigglypuff
Member
And now you make me very sad about this. XCOM 2 has an excellent mod support it was something they aimed for in the developement, they even offered mod tools with the game at launch. And got the Long War mod makers for the earlier game to contribute at release too. Leave Firaxis aloneNot alone in a sense that you'd skip their games though. Go ahead and boycott Rockstar I can support that, but Firaxis has nothing to do with this and is actually the very opposite of such practices that Rockstar and Take-Two are doing.
I mean I didn't buy any Activision games from Modern Warfare 2 (including MW2) through Destiny, which was about 5 years, because of the features they took away from MW2 on pc. The only other game of theirs I've bought since was Overwatch. I don't regret it at all, I actually kind of regret giving Destiny a chance.
I actually already own XCOM 2. Voting with my wallet is about all I can do, and it really doesn't seem to matter how I feel about Activision, there are untold millions who don't feel the same way. I play that kind of multiplayer FPS as though they are counterstrike anyhow, CSGO is > all CODs for me. I played MW like it was cs basically... in leagues on pc. Regular cod just doesn't get the blood pumping like that kind of competitive match play for me, after spending my late teens/early 20s competing in major tournaments like it was my damn job. Hell counterstrike was a mod, dota also. (Well a custom map anyhow.)
I literally bought a second copy of GTAV on pc specifically for single player mods, I would appreciate the low reviews over it. It's not misleading unless they don't specify why it's got a low review. For something that came out 2 years after the console release, seemingly in order to double(triple?)-dip, it is egregious to remove the mod support imo.
I would similarly never buy an elder scrolls game without some kind of modding support, their standard inventory management in Skyrim makes me want to saw my genitals off with spoon. Luckily they seem to bring mod support to consoles, instead of stripping it from pc. My god, I'd have hated the hell out of Morrowind all those years ago if I couldn't remove cliff racers from the game. Whoever made the cliff racer is the best troll in the world.
respawnIN10
Banned
I have an issue with buying a bad game in the first place. Having a constructive dialogue with the devs/publisher would be a way better option that actually might get positive results. Negative review spamming gets you nothing.
Negative reviews are literally a way of having a dialogue with the publisher too, so not sure what you're on about.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
I agree with the sentiment that people should stop rewarding bad games/bad publishers with their money (I certainly wouldn't consider GTAV a bad game for the record, however mods certainly improve the longevity of the title) but I attend industry events all the time and I have not met anyone from Take Two/Rockstar EVER. If I can't get access to the parties involved, how can anyone expect the average user with grievances to? Rockstar and Take Two aren't exactly known for being transparent and opening a dialog with their customers.
Kssio_Aug
Member
Yeah, sure. Next time fans should call the devs / publishers, sit with them in a table, drink some wine and eat some dinner together, while talking through the situation to reach the best results for everyone. Indeed a much smarter approach.
respawnIN10
Banned
Most of the recent reviews in reaction to what has happened amount to nothing more than shitposting. Not very constructive IMO.
respawnIN10
Banned
Then their lack of transparency should tell you that no matter what they don't really care at all about their most dedicated fanbase and that they should find another game that suits their idea of fun.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
Do you have an alternative? Because as I said, Take Two/Rockstar aren't exactly known for communicating with their users (to a fault). The only alternative I can think of is becoming a stockholder and blasting them during a conference call.
Fair enough, I actually agree with that, I hope there's a modding exodus and they put their efforts towards a game/company that appreciates and respects their users.... But it's not like anyone had the reasonable expectation what happened would happen. There was 15 years of modding without issue.
Hopefully you reconsider the XCOM 2 boycott for the upcoming expansion if it ends up being meaty enough to justify the cost and you are still interested in returning to the game. The DLC so far has been bit on weaker side imo, but so many great mods. Went my first run with a vanilla version, but using something close to 20 different mods now. Also going to check out some of those voice packs when I restart once again.
I've also double dipped on GTA V and I do regret it, I had it on PS3 first and played for maybe 30 hours in SP and online combined. Then put it on hold and started waiting for the better PC version with the assumption I would enjoy it more. The PC version came and I played it for 4 hours. Maybe I'll go back and finish the story sometime, I mean I should considering how much I've paid for it. Unfortunately it seems I can't even spice up and tweak the SP anymore now with mods.
I don't think I've straight up boycotted a developer or a publisher while being interested in their offerings. I did boycott Barilla though for it's anti-LGBT stances, apparently they've had a change of heart so I could be buying their products again.
This is good! http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1392594 There's no "go give negative user reviews to Sony games for their anti-consumer practices".
Seems like a good way to protest a decision by a publisher to me. Same for those doing this to Paradox even though I am a little sad it is hitting Pillars of Eternity and Obsidian with that one. When a publisher does something you don't like than you should make your voice heard by any legal means available to you.
Immortal Technique
Member
If you have beef with a publisher, then don't buy their games any more.
And they will magically know that it was because of this? People shouldn't complain ever? What are you trying to say exactly?
LMAO complete non-sequitur after everyone called you out for not reading the thread about this being about SP mods.
Immortal Technique
Member
People whining on the Internet means nothing to them. But if their sales are way down for their next PC title, now that's something they will care about.
Except it can and has worked many times before in other situations?
Alexander DeLarge
Member
Again, 15 years of precedent of "go ahead, do whatever you want" to modders. If I knew they'd be doing this with GTAV, I would've avoided it. Going forward? Sure I plan on doing that but should I wait another 1-2 years to express my frustration? Rockstar/Take Two don't get a message from "just don't buy the game". They see lower sales numbers and come to the conclusion of "well I guess people are more interested in the modern setting of GTA5 than a Western game".
Further development on OpenIV has ceased and the download on the official site has been removed but of course it spread everywhere after the C&D hit. Fortunately, the tools were developed enough to create custom content including custom maps (which Take Two seems particularly concerned about because teams were recreating the Red Dead Redemption map along with importing Liberty City into GTAV). I don't think this will hurt GTAV modding at all. In fact, I'd say it'll make the mod scene even stronger in spite of Take Two and the growing popularity of FiveM (OpenIV creates assets that can be used in FiveM). This is something that'll hurt GTA6 (and Red Dead Redemption 2's inevitable PC port) more than GTAV itself unless the OpenIV devs take it to court.
That being said, if you care about GTA5 modding, I'd keep your GTA5 install from updating. Who knows what they're going to do now.
Yeah, the problem with just voting with your wallet has always been that it doesn't send a specific message. They're not psychic, and the much more likely conclusion they'd draw from lower PC sales is interest in PC versions declining. User reviews will at least inform them if they want to hear their audience out. It could go nowhere, but it's probably the best and most convenient option of protest for most fans, and it's worth a shot.
As someone who doesn't have GTA5 on Steam yet, I'm not sure what to do anymore. Buy it and give them money they don't deserve? Or pass and miss out on something I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy?
spindoctor
Member
Can I just say I'm glad that this review bombing is causing so much discomfort to the fanboys? It's the most tangible outcome that we'll realistically see and it's pretty fucking great.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
If they're playing, they must be satisfied. In fact, that obligates them to write a positive review and be quiet otherwise.
What a strange thread.