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Halo Creative Director Ryan Payton Leaves 343i, Starts New Studio
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Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Good to hear he has no qualms with MS or Halo 4 itself. Sounds like he just wanted more freedom, which is why he jumped to a new studio and indie games.
DAMMIT! He was the sole reason I thought Halo 4 would actually be good. Listening to his opinions on games and it sounds like he had the same gripes I had about Halo not being epic enough anymore. And he specifically says, "The Halo I wanted to build was fundamentally different and I don't think I had built enough credibility to see such a crazy endeavor through."
Shit.
Shit.
michaeltraps
Member
Good for him. I always enjoyed reading/watching interviews with him and listening to him speak on podcasts - came across as very intelligent and passionate. Never played MGS4 but I was under the impression that he had a big hand in updating that franchise's somewhat antiquated aspects and I was really impressed Microsoft managed to snag him and stick him on the new Halo games.
Naturally, this means the new Halo game is in trouble, amirite?
Phatcorns said:
343i is making halo games, not great fps games, not spectacular sci-fi games. It s continuing a franchise.
It's not fun to get something to perfection, but it's 343i job and I believe Microsoft is sending enough cash for them to want to "secure" the future of the franchise.
If he loved Halo, he should have stayed, his time would have come. New and fundamentally different ideas will be needed in time.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Phatcorns said:
I don't take it as negative as this, it almost sounds like he had similar feelings while at Kojima, and that he is more interested in making indie games for the freedom it offers.
The statement you quoted is just something that happens on games, I am sure most creative directors have a different view of what they want the final game to be, so someone is bound to be disappointed.
Zeouterlimits
Member
If he wasn't having an enjoyable time, or was having the opposite, then it's right he goes with what will suit him.monome said:
I really hope Josh and 343i aren't playing Halo 4 too safe. It's clear they're upping the depth of the narrative, but it's unclear currently if the gameplay is just going to be slightly changed with new, Elite-type-of-intelligence enemies.
Fallout-NL
Member
Fjordson said:
The 'new' trilogy is probably going to be rather a lot like the old one.
This is good. One of the things that really intrigued me about 343i was that everyone working was there because they loved Halo. The studio was formed on the basis of nurturing and improving the franchise, so there would be little other reason to be there.
So if someone isn't creatively excited by making Halo FPS games, then jumping ship is the best thing for the studio and the game. Halo 4 panel convinced me that they've got the right approach, especially since they're putting more focus on story on character.
Not having Bungie's ham-fisted writers is going to help out too, I hope. I think 343i understands that the people who bother to complete campaigns are the people who are really into the franchise, and can handle a little story and exposition.
So if someone isn't creatively excited by making Halo FPS games, then jumping ship is the best thing for the studio and the game. Halo 4 panel convinced me that they've got the right approach, especially since they're putting more focus on story on character.
Not having Bungie's ham-fisted writers is going to help out too, I hope. I think 343i understands that the people who bother to complete campaigns are the people who are really into the franchise, and can handle a little story and exposition.
outunderthestars
Banned
Heavy's Sandvich said:
Yea, that totally would give him the creative outlet he is seeking.
From one corpse of a franchise to another.
I wish him luck. Hopefully he'll get to create the game he wants to make.
Leaving a high profile project like Halo 4 prior to it shipping probably won't reflect well on him as far as the industry goes. That decision might come back to haunt him later on.
Still, must be nice to have the flexibility to pick up sticks and try something new if you aren't happy with the direction your career is going in. Hope it pans out for him.
Still, must be nice to have the flexibility to pick up sticks and try something new if you aren't happy with the direction your career is going in. Hope it pans out for him.
A27 Tawpgun said:
I wish he'd at least mention some of these "crazy" ideas, so we could get an idea of what it is the team wasn't behind, but he was.
Sort of seems he was already half way out of the door with 343 a LONG time ago, if he already has a different studio with 2 projects being made.
I suppose it depends what he wanted to change, the gameplay or the structure. So long as the core Halo gameplay is intact, Halo can be rebuilt to be something other than a mission to mission shooter (ODST was sort of a proof of concept).A27 Tawpgun said:
I remember in the Halo 4 panel, Frankie mentioned that they had built out a number of ideas in iteration that were great, but were ultimately thrown out because "they weren't Halo". He was making a point to emphasize how the team recognized what Halo was at its core and reassuring fans that they were going to preserve it. I don't know if these are dots that don't necessarily warrant connecting, but that's the first thing I thought of after reading the article. Put together, it sounds like Payton wanted to make substantial changes to the game that the rest of the team resisted, and so he left because he didn't feel like he could be passionate about a project in which he felt so limited.
If that's the case, his departure will be better for him, and Halo. No one should work on something they don't love if they have the choice, and Halo shouldn't be shepherded by someone who doesn't love what it is.
Halo 4 sure sounds exciting
Creatively, there is nothing worst than working at something guiding yourself for "what it should be". The original Halo didn't followed anyone, and if there is a chance for a good change of direction for a franchise, it should be with a new trilogy. Best of lucks to Ryan.
jett said:
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Payton worked at Kojima Productions for a long, long time. He left after MGS4 because he had family commitments back in the US and didn't want to be far away in a foreign country for so long. He joined 343i because they offered him a chance to move up in the industry, and he took it since he was relocating back in the US anyway. He is now leaving because of creative differences. How is that... being a kook? Wut?!
The Librarian
Banned
Exactly my thoughts.GhaleonEB said:
Fallout-NL
Member
GhaleonEB said:
You do realize there is a very fine line between this and getting the same fucking CoD (or Halo) game every year?
duckroll said:
lolz, I know he had his reasons both times but it's just weird to leave the developer of one of the biggest franchises in the industry...twice. I think he was lucky to get the 343i offer in the first place.
I wish him the best in his new iOS-oriented endeavor!
On a related tangent, I've always wanted to know exactly what did he bring to MGS4, aside from supposedly convincing Kojima to change the control scheme.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Is Ryan Payton, the gaffer OuterWorldVoice?
Neuromancer
Member
Man I would love to hear his ideas.
Payton did a lot of good for MGS4. I loved following the game and his podcasts every week when he was involved. The westernized parts of MGS4 were welcome changes too. The series was in desperate need of some major overhauls and from what I hear, hes partially responsible for that.
Hopefully this works out well for him.
I havent seen him post on gaf in a while. Nows your chance Ryan!
Hopefully this works out well for him.
I havent seen him post on gaf in a while. Nows your chance Ryan!
infinityBCRT
Member
I think I have a good feel for what Payton is talking about since I listened to his podcast and agreed with like 100% of the thoughts he had about Metal Gear and about games in general. My theory is he wanted Halo 4 to be more than just a shooter. Maybe have more interactive environments with puzzles, or an RPG element-- something that separated it from the original three games and was fresh. And my guess is that 343 decided to stick to the tried and true gameplay and therefore Payton really didn't see the need to be there since they are just doing what they/Bungie always did and the game would be the same whether he was there or not.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Fallout-NL said:
There's more than just a fine line that separates Halo from COD, now and in the future.
jett said:
Oh I think he was very, very lucky to get the 343i offer. But if it didn't work out, and he is choosing to walk away rather than work on something he doesn't really completely feel right for, more power to him.
I hope it's not just iOS though, I don't think I'll ever be getting an iOS product!
Maybe it'll be for XBLA/PSNduckroll said:Oh I think he was very, very lucky to get the 343i offer. But if it didn't work out, and he is choosing to walk away rather than work on something he doesn't really completely feel right for, more power to him.
I hope it's not just iOS though, I don't think I'll ever be getting an iOS product!
Interfectum
Member
jett said:
Haha.
"I'm depressed because of the direction of Halo 4. Maybe, I'll quit this job that most would kill for, start an iOS studio and make a game where you flick things around with your fingers!"
Neuromancer
Member
Unfortunately we'll probably never what his ideas were, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them just because they were different.GhaleonEB said:
If Halo 4 is just more Master Chief jumping around throwing plasma grenades on the same enemies we've already seen 5 times in 5 different games, I'd be pretty disappointed. I think the series could use a shot in the arm.
No, not really. We're talking changes in the abstract here, but there are very concrete, identifiable things that make Halo, Halo, as opposed to CoD or some other shooter. Those things need to be preserved. Much can be reworked around them, and they can be added to and expanded, as Bungie did from Halo 1 to ODST. Personally I wouldn't look to ODST as "the same fucking CoD (or Halo)" as the rest of the series. And if the direction the Halo 4 concept art teases is any indication, Halo 4 won't be either. It's a new team making a new trilogy in a new setting with a totally different artistic direction. But it needs to be a Halo game. That's why it's called Halo.Fallout-NL said:
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Thanks for the answers guys
Fallout-NL
Member
Say what you will, but like CoD, Halo has an extremely popular online component and I think that's the reason why there can't be any fundamental changes to the core gameplay.
I'm not saying that CoD and Halo are the same game. But their evolution, or rather a lack of, is definitely similar.
Well yeah, it's always a gamble. But I don't see how a radically different style of game couldn't still have a Halo 'feel' to it.
Why shouldn't someone like Payton want to give it a shot? We have gotten relatively 'safe' updates in the last decade. I don't blame him for wanting to try something new.
I'm not saying that CoD and Halo are the same game. But their evolution, or rather a lack of, is definitely similar.
GhaleonEB said:
Well yeah, it's always a gamble. But I don't see how a radically different style of game couldn't still have a Halo 'feel' to it.
Why shouldn't someone like Payton want to give it a shot? We have gotten relatively 'safe' updates in the last decade. I don't blame him for wanting to try something new.
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