Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Boss battles suck. I'd rather do QTEs than fight Tartarus again. I didn't mind Metal Gear Rising's QTEs, nor Tomb Raider's.
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Halo |OT16| Oh Bungie, Where Art Thou?
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Haven't gotten it yet, but i'm getting three of the structures from the cover art on my rib cage.
And absolutely go, their stage presence and setup is really awesome (ALTHOUGH NOTHING WILL EVER COMPARE THE THE RESISTANCE STAGE SHOW, seriously it was so amazing). And Madness live is beautiful.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Completely disagree. Id take Tartarus over a QTE any day of the week.
One of them is a conclusion that requires effort not matter how minimal and the other is a Cutscene with pop ups.
This is a terrible post
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Hey, I hate boss battles. They completely break the flow of a game, and more than not they are poorly designed. Maybe QTEs aren't the answer, but there are others ways to do it.
Maybe just don't have "bosses."
I don't necessarily enjoy QTEs, but I just dislike boss battles enough to skip them. Other games have gotten around having bosses without QTEs, so I'd rather that.
Ugh, I'm posting so much today but what fun is a QTE? You've fought literally all game with guns, grenades, etc and to end it like in Halo 4 with a SINGLE button press was the most deflating way to finish.
User 73706
Banned
Reposting this with some slight changes.
I wonder how Halo would play with the new "X Gimmick" like AAs, Equipment, etc. being Global Powerups. Similar to Ordnance mixed with Equipment, the map spawns with a few Powerup Nodes available on the map. If you pick up a Node, different effects are grouped into a single 4-option prompt. After picking up said Powerup, you can select which one you want to activate with the D-Pad. Rather than drop down, it instantly provides the effect for you when you select it. To compensate, a large waypoint will show up above your Spartan visible to everyone, with variations depending on which tier the powerup is. This disappears when active - but every powerup has a distinct visual effect when a Spartan is using it.
You can hang on to these powerups like Ordnance; the big difference is the waypoint. Reserving something like a Bronze Powerup may be a good idea because you could whip out a Rumble Bubble on the fly because it only lasts 5 seconds, but then you have to worry about giving away your presence in the first place.
These would only appear in Social playlists. Armor Mods are scrapped, as well as Armor Abilities. Big Team may have Sprint but otherwise Ranked is completely barebones save for weapon sandboxes.
In Customs, you could possibly have the ability to spawn Team Bonuses - that is, special versions of the Powerups that would instantly grant your entire team an ability of your choosing, though it would be offset by the fact that your entire team is suddenly visible to everybody because of the waypoints.
Note that all of these powerups will "orbit" you and follow your Spartan's biped adding to their effectiveness, rather than spawning in a static location like, say, Reach's Bubble Shield.
Onyx Powerups (30 Second Duration)
Overshield
Active Camo
Speed Boost
Damage Boost
Gold Powerups (20 Second Duration)
Bubble Shield: Projects a spherical shield that will protect everyone except you.
Regen Field: Regenerates vehicle health, player health, and shielding of everyone but you.
Auto Turret: Two Halo 3-era Campaign turrets orbit you; they have high power but low pathfinding ability and rate of fire.
Hi-Jump: Projects a small, spherical Trait Zone that halves the gravity within, even for you.
Silver Powerups (10 Second Duration)
Power Drain: EMPs vehicles, drains shields. Also draws people in like a black hole.
Repulsor: Pushes everything away from you. It can be a good counter to Melee weapons.
Autosentry: One Halo 4 version orbits you. Moderate damage, but high rate of fire, headshot capability, and better enemy detection.
Holoflurry: Sends out holograms in random directions every two seconds.
Bronze Powerups (5 Second Duration)
Rumble Bubble: A Bubble Shield that only protects you. Other players in the field can still be shot.
Rumble Regen: A Regen Field that only restores your health and shielding.
Universal Ammo Restore: Restores up to 50% of your weapon's max ammo over the course of 5 seconds.
Universal Ammo Recharge: Same as above, but with battery-operated weapons.
The Universal Ammo powerups also enact "bottomless clip" functionality in that you don't have to reload, but it will eat into your regenerated ammo count.
I wonder how Halo would play with the new "X Gimmick" like AAs, Equipment, etc. being Global Powerups. Similar to Ordnance mixed with Equipment, the map spawns with a few Powerup Nodes available on the map. If you pick up a Node, different effects are grouped into a single 4-option prompt. After picking up said Powerup, you can select which one you want to activate with the D-Pad. Rather than drop down, it instantly provides the effect for you when you select it. To compensate, a large waypoint will show up above your Spartan visible to everyone, with variations depending on which tier the powerup is. This disappears when active - but every powerup has a distinct visual effect when a Spartan is using it.
You can hang on to these powerups like Ordnance; the big difference is the waypoint. Reserving something like a Bronze Powerup may be a good idea because you could whip out a Rumble Bubble on the fly because it only lasts 5 seconds, but then you have to worry about giving away your presence in the first place.
These would only appear in Social playlists. Armor Mods are scrapped, as well as Armor Abilities. Big Team may have Sprint but otherwise Ranked is completely barebones save for weapon sandboxes.
In Customs, you could possibly have the ability to spawn Team Bonuses - that is, special versions of the Powerups that would instantly grant your entire team an ability of your choosing, though it would be offset by the fact that your entire team is suddenly visible to everybody because of the waypoints.
Note that all of these powerups will "orbit" you and follow your Spartan's biped adding to their effectiveness, rather than spawning in a static location like, say, Reach's Bubble Shield.
Onyx Powerups (30 Second Duration)
Overshield
Active Camo
Speed Boost
Damage Boost
Gold Powerups (20 Second Duration)
Bubble Shield: Projects a spherical shield that will protect everyone except you.
Regen Field: Regenerates vehicle health, player health, and shielding of everyone but you.
Auto Turret: Two Halo 3-era Campaign turrets orbit you; they have high power but low pathfinding ability and rate of fire.
Hi-Jump: Projects a small, spherical Trait Zone that halves the gravity within, even for you.
Silver Powerups (10 Second Duration)
Power Drain: EMPs vehicles, drains shields. Also draws people in like a black hole.
Repulsor: Pushes everything away from you. It can be a good counter to Melee weapons.
Autosentry: One Halo 4 version orbits you. Moderate damage, but high rate of fire, headshot capability, and better enemy detection.
Holoflurry: Sends out holograms in random directions every two seconds.
Bronze Powerups (5 Second Duration)
Rumble Bubble: A Bubble Shield that only protects you. Other players in the field can still be shot.
Rumble Regen: A Regen Field that only restores your health and shielding.
Universal Ammo Restore: Restores up to 50% of your weapon's max ammo over the course of 5 seconds.
Universal Ammo Recharge: Same as above, but with battery-operated weapons.
The Universal Ammo powerups also enact "bottomless clip" functionality in that you don't have to reload, but it will eat into your regenerated ammo count.
Epic
xxjuicesxx
Member
I've done Medium first and Hard. Whats 1999 mode actually? I started it up but was too tired to keep going that night.
Game specific stuff below.
N what Boss Battles in Bioshock is Josh talking about? Slate wasn't a boss battle it was just fighting hoards. Handymen are harder enemies but not bosses, the ship battle isn't a boss either. So basically Josh didn't like Lady Comstock? Personally I think major enemies were handled well because there could have been four or five really bad boss battles. They didnt have a single enemy though that just had a huge health bar and they called a boss. N if you really hate Lady Comstock she can basically be cheesed with Carbine + Sniper sitting back in the tomb.
Steelyuhas
Member
Poop opinion club
Twilight Gap
Member
To me, there are not many games where battling a single boss entity itself would be interesting for the player. I've played games with epic bosses and I've played games with rip-your-hair-out bosses.
Shooters aren't normally among the former.
Now I'm sure there are those who make it work, and there are definitely other ways to go about it. But even as much as I love Halo 2's Campaign, I don't think Tartarus was one of the good examples.
You couldn't do anything except lure him in range for Johnson, and when you got tired of laughing at the dumb ruffgonja Elites, it got boring. That's not good gameplay.
A boss battle should challenge your wit and keep you on the edge of your seat. I don't think you should be playing a secondary or passive role to an NPC, because then you're sitting there doing nothing half the time. Keep the player engaged, but not in a way that has you frustrated, wasting ammo, or guessing erratic behavior.
To build off of my first sentence, I'd rather see "Boss Waves" expanded on like they were in Firefight. Give us a never ending onslaught to test our endurance instead of a single "Bossman". Because let's face it - if the boss himself was powerful enough to last more than 2 minutes against our hero, why wouldn't he have gotten rid of us long ago?
Conversely, QTE's are generally much easier than fighting the minions. Taking out somebody as "divine" as the Didact with a QTE not only makes him look weak, but also leaves us feeling unsatisfied. All that talk and then he goes down in what is essentially a flashy cinematic? There are Grunts more challenging than that.
I don't remember which developer said it, but it's better to leave the action for the gameplay itself and use the cutscenes to set that up. Otherwise, why not watch a movie instead?
Shooters aren't normally among the former.
Now I'm sure there are those who make it work, and there are definitely other ways to go about it. But even as much as I love Halo 2's Campaign, I don't think Tartarus was one of the good examples.
You couldn't do anything except lure him in range for Johnson, and when you got tired of laughing at the dumb ruffgonja Elites, it got boring. That's not good gameplay.
A boss battle should challenge your wit and keep you on the edge of your seat. I don't think you should be playing a secondary or passive role to an NPC, because then you're sitting there doing nothing half the time. Keep the player engaged, but not in a way that has you frustrated, wasting ammo, or guessing erratic behavior.
To build off of my first sentence, I'd rather see "Boss Waves" expanded on like they were in Firefight. Give us a never ending onslaught to test our endurance instead of a single "Bossman". Because let's face it - if the boss himself was powerful enough to last more than 2 minutes against our hero, why wouldn't he have gotten rid of us long ago?
Conversely, QTE's are generally much easier than fighting the minions. Taking out somebody as "divine" as the Didact with a QTE not only makes him look weak, but also leaves us feeling unsatisfied. All that talk and then he goes down in what is essentially a flashy cinematic? There are Grunts more challenging than that.
I don't remember which developer said it, but it's better to leave the action for the gameplay itself and use the cutscenes to set that up. Otherwise, why not watch a movie instead?
I beat the game on Hard the first week it came out and then let my friend borrow it. I want to do a 1999 run once I get it back... is it really as easy as I'm hearing it is?
Syphon Filter
Member
Tartarus was fun to fight. qte is crap,how you kill some big bad guy with a press of a button.
Tell that to DICE, 343i, Infinity Ward, and whatever Capcom team made Resident QTE 6.
Poker Face
Member
probably fighting the handyman.
also QTEs are bad. Halo 4 ending could have just been a first person cutscene.
xxjuicesxx
Member
I played a very heavy QTE game on stream. It was so bad it was enjoyable. Perhaps some of you remember it.
QTE is joke tier gaming.
QTE is joke tier gaming.
We know your stance on Halo 4 and everything, but this is cray.
Steelyuhas
Member
That Jurassic Park game?
xxjuicesxx
Member
Nah, Rockband.
Twilight Gap
Member
lmao
Most of the greatest games of all time have had boss battles. What do you suggest is a way to 'get around' them? I enjoyed the Tartarus fight, even the one with guilty spark, I was so letdown with what they did with the Didact.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
DICE = Horrible SP
Infinity Ward = I remember very few QTE's outside of the endings and they sucked then
Never played Resi 6
Steelyuhas
Member
Poker Face
Member
NullPointer
Member
Boss Battles and QTEs both suck.
Instead of needing a boss battle, make grand scale battles with high stakes. I was actually hoping Reach would end with some crazy firefight-like holding battle (close) but where the better you did, the more civilians would be able to evacuate. Something where your death didn't restart a checkpoint, but instead determined how successful you were in saving civilians. Make it impossible to save all of them, and you have a natural incentive towards sacrifice.
Thats just one example.
In terms of a palette cleanser for gameplay? Change up the stakes and change up the objectives. Make them tests of core mechanics rather than simply pattern memorization against sometimes invulnerable enemies with glowing weak spots. That shit got old long ago.
Instead of needing a boss battle, make grand scale battles with high stakes. I was actually hoping Reach would end with some crazy firefight-like holding battle (close) but where the better you did, the more civilians would be able to evacuate. Something where your death didn't restart a checkpoint, but instead determined how successful you were in saving civilians. Make it impossible to save all of them, and you have a natural incentive towards sacrifice.
Thats just one example.
In terms of a palette cleanser for gameplay? Change up the stakes and change up the objectives. Make them tests of core mechanics rather than simply pattern memorization against sometimes invulnerable enemies with glowing weak spots. That shit got old long ago.
Was the defence part doable in 1999 mode? Hated it on normal even.
NullPointer
Member
I miss the old days where you could look to the OP to catch you up with anything you've missed after taking a few months off.
This ones just more piss and vinegar. So I take it nothing's been changed or added to the game?
This ones just more piss and vinegar. So I take it nothing's been changed or added to the game?
Poker Face
Member
they added the death x (doesn't really last that long though)
forge island (free dlc)
they can make weapon modifications without a TU (new gametypes would have weapon changes)
and more medium/large map dlc coming out monday.
Play the game and see if you notice anything different.
Hypertrooper
Member
You do not get the point. Bosses aren't bad, but they are bad in the most of FPS shooters. You are talking about Action games. It is easy to create great bosses for those kind of games, but for a shooter?
And yes, Tartarus is a stupid boss. What does he do? He is invulnerable for the most of times till Johnson shoots him. How can this be a good boss fight? It's annoying!
They added red X's that aren't red and don't work properly.
Henery made a really good post about why Halo 4 isn't good but no one will care and Halo 5 will still have ordnance drops, AA's, flinch and sprint.
Syphon Filter
Member
link?
NullPointer
Member
Hey, thanks. No big weapon/AA balance title update?
Haha. Fair enough.
The one in the OP? (the best part)
In short: We have to go back, Kate.
Poker Face
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52385775&postcount=19025
it's in the OP as well.
Well they slightly nerfed the gauss hog. lol.
But nah, nothing yet. I would have expected them to release a classic gametype with a 4-shot BR, but nope. Modders have updated a program so they can edit some of these settings themselves, so I'm sure they'll make one
Oh only talking about Shooters? Yeah ok, it is quite hard to do it correct in them without feeling goofy ( big boss and you are able to just circle him and non stop shooting or QTE)
But I never thought of any fight in Bioshock as a real bossbattle.. I even like the approach of making the enemies that difficult, I prefer it to the elites in Halo nowadays.
But yes, for shooters it is almost impossible, even harder when they try to be serious( unlike Borderlands) Best mixture would be some sort of fight ( gameplay segment ) and after the health is down then you can push a QTE for a badass video scene.
Better than beating the Ancient Evil(lol) with a pulse grenade.. in a qte
Rickenslacker
Banned
Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind were great fights.
But otherwise yeah screw FPS boss fights. CE was amazing to me because it felt like it threw conventional FPS structure out the window and made for a believable sci-fi warzone. You weren't going to just fight the one dude who could sponge damage forever at the end, you were going to set that thing to blow and haul ass outta there.
But otherwise yeah screw FPS boss fights. CE was amazing to me because it felt like it threw conventional FPS structure out the window and made for a believable sci-fi warzone. You weren't going to just fight the one dude who could sponge damage forever at the end, you were going to set that thing to blow and haul ass outta there.
NullPointer
Member
Only slightly? Bummer. That thing was rolling death incarnate.
The frag grenade that looked like a pulse grenade. Yeah... that part... huh.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Alright, I don't mind boss battles in Devil May Cry (most of them).
I think shooters do poorly at implementing boss battles in general.
I think shooters do poorly at implementing boss battles in general.
Barrow Roll
Member
woah
Yeah BF3 SP stunk and they were in co-op, Infinity Ward only had them during cutscenes and they were annoying, Resident Evil 6 was QTE the game.
Edit: Oh! I do think Mass Effect 1 & 2 had fun/good boss battles!
Blue Ninja
Member
Yeah sorry my mind has now changed now that I know it was another grenade type.
With this I can agree
For the first test we used Magnum/AR starts with higher damage and no personal loadouts. It was nice playing a BTB map with absolutely no DMR or Plasma Pistols and only 4 Plasma Grenades on the map.
NullPointer
Member
Haha, I think we agree on how bad that part was. Ending with a QTE of all things, and getting the grenade type wrong in the process. Its crazy.
I did watch the "post-mortem" and it really didn't give me any faith for the future. I think the crew there still seems to think QTEs are a net positive for some reason.
Was thinking about this. I'd expect mainline Halo games to extend the stuff they put in Reach and Halo 4, but they might be able to win by taking more time on Halo 5 while putting out another ODST-like spin-off. This one with a new multiplayer using classic multiplayer settings. Make it a story about the other Spartans. Drop some story threads to tie it into Halo 5.
Hell, it can even be a standalone "expansion" to Halo 4 is that how they wanted to approach it, with its own classic/skill modes and new maps.
Twilight Gap
Member
If you're building it 100% for classic settings, then I can definitely see that functioning much better.
I wish there was a genuine classic playlist.
Onikaan
Member
Thinking of picking up a 2nd hand copy of Halo 4 again after a long hiatus.
I'd like to try the new maps out as I bought the season pass early on. Game drove me nutters, that's why I flogged it. But I need to play Halo, it's in my blood.
What does HaloGAF say to it now?
Still better than Reach?
I'd like to try the new maps out as I bought the season pass early on. Game drove me nutters, that's why I flogged it. But I need to play Halo, it's in my blood.
What does HaloGAF say to it now?
Still better than Reach?
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