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Hatred - Reveal & Gameplay Trailer

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Jonm1010

Banned

I just explained it. Re-read my post if its that difficult to postulate right now. If a game of complete similarity existed that was developed by a someone not supporting a hate group what makes it different from GTA? Most in this thread who were disgusted did so before knowing this about him. As did I, but when thinking about it it is hard to find a solid argument why this game is wrong but other games like GTA aren't.

Its not that hard to understand what I am struggling with.
 

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Thread after another page.

11154579_800.jpg
 
So you'd play the game even if its essentially his fantasy of what he want's to do in real life?

Yes, kind of. Makes it all the more interesting. Normally I keep creator and game separate.

I am not very convinced though that this game is about purging Islamics or whatever many people are implying. This game is created by a lot more people but I feel people here are just trying to search for reasons to discredit this game.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
How's it any different than games like GTA?

In fact, arguably, GTA is a "worse" product if violence endorsement is something that you care in a video game.

Edit: Oh, I just learned that the maker of this game is apparently part of a hate group? Hmmmmmm. Well.... I don't know. It's something, sure, but is it right for us to disallow this game to exist? I don't know... Hmm. It doesn't feel right to me.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I kinda wish this thread didn't exist. Whole thing's gross. It's like people jumping into a Chic-Fil-a thread and saying they want chicken out of spite.

I agree that this thread is gross, but for a far different reason. It's basically Gamergate Redux.
 
I just explained it. Re-read my post if its that difficult to postulate right now. If a game of complete similarity existed that was developed by a someone not supporting a hate group what makes it different from GTA? Most in this thread who were disgusted did so before knowing this about him. As did I, but when thinking about it it is hard to find a solid argument why this game is wrong but other games like GTA aren't.

Its not that hard to understand what I am struggling with.
In GTA (especially in V as the series matures), killing is usually a means to an end rather than the point itself, it's not done for satisfaction per se (or at least not done out of pure hatred), and the killing of civilians is neither as gory or glorified as this. In GTA V, much of the entire plot is actually the opposite -- trying to get out of a life where you have to hurt people to survive. Michael was basically anti-GTA incarnate in terms of characterization (what little there was). The game even penalizes, ridicules, and satires needless violence at times, though admittedly in a very minor and almost inconsequential way. But nonetheless, it's still a very different premise than slaughtering innocent people out of hate for satisfaction in a very glorified way.
 

striferser

Huge Nickleback Fan
So you'd play the game even if its essentially his fantasy of what he want's to do in real life?

I'm not the poster you quote, but i throw my 2cents

Yes. Not because i want to support his view, just want to see if the game is any good. I hate the CEO supporting the hate group, but i think it's fair to check the game. Who know, maybe we can learn something new.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
In GTA (especially in V as the series matures), killing is usually a means to an end rather than the point itself, it's not done for satisfaction per se (or at least not done out of pure hatred), and the killing of civilians is neither as gory or glorified as this. In GTA V, much of the entire plot is actually the opposite -- trying to get out of a life where you have to hurt people to survive. Michael was basically anti-GTA incarnate in terms of characterization (what little there was). The game even penalizes, ridicules, and satires needless violence at times, though admittedly in a very minor and almost inconsequential way. But nonetheless, it's still a very different premise than slaughtering innocent people out of hate for satisfaction in a very glorified way.

When that 19yo killed his entire family to get out of a $3,000 debt it was a means to an end, too. Your POV on this is utterly bizarre to me.
 
I actually thought it was a parody for the first few seconds, then when I realized it seems to be playing it completely straight I had a good laugh. Gameplay looks like fairly generic top-down shooter stuff, doesn't seem like anything special.
 

Riposte

Member
Ive read the last two pages and watched the OP. I still have the same struggles. When you really start to think about what is the dividing line between justifying violence in video games against civilians in GTA or violence against civilians in this?

Put aside the possibility of the creator being in a hate group and just postulate this game minus that attachment, as many did prior to the last page, and unless I make an argument of moral relativism I have a hard time justifying why I stand by one game being ok but not the other. The best I have is intent is the difference but then plenty of people can and do play GTA just for the mayhem.

Because defeating virtual objects is not inherently distasteful, but two different examples of can make you feel differently for an endless number of reasons, such as their differences in tone, context, framing, etc.

EDIT: And frankly, there's only need for one justification: Do you enjoy it? Clearly, if you are disgusted by a game, that's less likely the case.
 

Cronox

Banned
Given the attention this game has gotten on GAF, I suspect I'll keep seeing threads on it as we get closer to release. I don't particularly care who the dev team leader is or what his beliefs are.

I'm much more interested in if the game will be good, or if it will actually come out at all. If it comes out and gets some alright reviews, I'll gladly buy it in a steam sale and add it to the list of games I'll never play. I kind of missed all the Postal games, so this could be my in into the world of unashamed, un-smoothed-over psychopathy in video games.
 
This is a moronic looking game. It's astonishing that people can be stupid enough to see no difference between such a product and GTA. Wilful ignorance of the most depressing kind.
 

ak1276

Banned
I'm not the poster you quote, but i throw my 2cents

Yes. Not because i want to support his view, just want to see if the game is any good. I hate the CEO supporting the hate group, but i think it's fair to check the game. Who know, maybe we can learn something new.

Wat.
 

striferser

Huge Nickleback Fan
Welp, so this game is developed by racists/neo nazis.

http://fucknovideogames.tumblr.com/...s-a-genocide-simulator-developed-by-neo-nazis

Also, using UE4 logo without permission:

UE4 logo is something new in this thread, so yeah, dev need to fix this shit up immediately.


Yeah, i believe there's probably something we can learn out of this. As other pointed out, the destruction look nice, and the guy grab the cop by his shirt, something not seen often in other game.

I could be wrong though, i mean, this is all just based on one trailer, so i can'r really be sure. My stance on this is to wait till the game released to see if the game bring something of value.

Seeing something from a completely different perspective can very well teach you something. Not a lesson you will have to agree with, but an insight in how such people think.
Thanks, this is exactly what i meant.
 
Even games like Manhunt have a point - you're fighting very bad, sadistic inmates who have killed and enjoy killing. This though… it seems to endorse violence. Reminds me of films like August Underground.

My first thought is that this is like the August Underground of games.

You hope there's some sort of meaning to the senseless brutality, but eventually you realize it's just a bunch grody fucks showing off their shitty taste to the world.
 
Wow, people are still spreading the misinformation of Cursed Soldiers (Żołnierze wyklęci) being some form of neo-nazi ideals? That tumblr post seems to relate it as so, the person may be a neo-nazi but it's not because of his t-shirt which has nothing to do with the relation of Cursed Soliders and neo-nazism. This hurts my head.
 

ak1276

Banned
Seeing something from a completely different perspective can very well teach you something. Not a lesson you will have to agree with, but an insight into how such people think.

EDIT: Ah, technically. I doubt they will share how they did it.

Yeah, no. I've actually had better insight into spree killers than I would ever get from this rancid pile of shit.
 

docbon

Member
Damn, they're going in hard for that title of "edgiest game in the history of forever". At least Postal had some dark humor sprinkled throughout it. ~Eagerly~ awaiting the inevitable school shooting DLC.

Wow, people are still spreading the misinformation of Cursed Soldiers (Żołnierze wyklęci) being some form of neo-nazi ideals? That tumblr post seems to relate it as so, the person may be a neo-nazi but it's not because of his t-shirt which has nothing to do with the relation of Cursed Soliders and neo-nazism. This hurts my head.

Yeah, the shirt thing felt pretty shaking to me, honestly. The CEO's facebook is much more damning, however.
 
Yeah, no. I've actually had better insight into spree killers than I would ever get from this rancid pile of shit.

There are very few games that puts you in the shoes of being a spree killer for the sake of it. If the game is an accurate representation of his fantasies, as so many people seem to claim even though the group ideals don't seem correlated to this game, I think it could be a valuable perspective.

I don't see how this game is a rancid pile of shit anyway.
 
There are very few games that puts you in the shoes of being a spree killer for the sake of it. If the game is an accurate representation of his fantasies, as so many people seem to claim even though the group ideals don't seem correlated to this game, I think it could be a valuable perspective.

I don't see how this game is a rancid pile of shit anyway.

based on the tone of the trailer, do you honestly think this game is going to provide a value perspective?
 
I just realised the people chosen for execution in that trailer happen to be minorities and females. It's their trailer so they decided to show it like this.

First guy looks asian, is a cop. Second guy is a black cop. 3rd guy looks black. Afterwards, three women (one asian and one black). Then, black guy. Male (white?) cop. Female cop. Last person seems like a minority. 3/10 are white, by my guess.

I feel uneasy when that is paired with their racist backgrounds.
 
based on the tone of the trailer, do you honestly think this game is going to provide a value perspective?

No, but I don't feel it reflects the fantasies of the creator, that's why.

Unreal should just leave it be. It shows the engine off really well. They shouldn't get involved in the politics of everything.

It is a fairly simple document that they made available for people to use their logos in their games and marketing content, they shouldn't leave it be because that sends the message that others should be allowed to do the same without permission. And I think that opens them up to legal issues in regards to trademarks.

EDIT: That, and in this case you get a huge PR problem.
 
Visually it looks pretty nice for an indy made UE4 game. Gameplay wise, it is pretty much patterned after the original Postal without all the tongue in cheek humor (at least that is what it looks like to me).
 

Alienous

Member
I just realised the people chosen for execution in that trailer happen to be minorities and females. It's their trailer so they decided to show it like this.

First guy looks asian, is a cop. Second guy is a black cop. 3rd guy looks black. Afterwards, three women (one asian and one black). Then, black guy. Male (white?) cop. Female cop. Last person seems like a minority. 3/10 are white, by my guess.

I feel uneasy when that is paired with their racist backgrounds.

Lol.

Ok, I guess.
 

ak1276

Banned
There are very few games that puts you in the shoes of being a spree killer for the sake of it. If the game is an accurate representation of his fantasies, as so many people seem to claim even though the group ideals don't seem correlated to this game, I think it could be a valuable perspective.

I don't see how this game is a rancid pile of shit anyway.

There are few games that do this for a reason, though; it's an ineffective mode of transmitting those feelings. To do that you'd need a heavy narrative focus (whether you want to admit that or not) and the acuity to KNOW the answer, or at least your interpretation of the answer. Then you need the actual emotional maturity to simulate those ideas.
This game doesn't seem to do that, and that seems to be by developer's intent. It has one goal in mind; kill everyone. Jam your gun in that woman's face and pull the trigger, because you had a bad day at work. Listening to her beg is how you get your jollies off, right?

And at the end of the day, from a purely game-ist viewpoint, THAT'S why it's going to be a piece of shit. Killing random civilians might be fun to some people (not me) in GTA, but that's more because of the arcadey feel of the game; you have a fucking rocket launcher and you're doing crazy shit, and in 5 minutes the National Guard will come out. It's so stupid and ridiculous that people can have fun with it, even if I think those people are way too easily entertained. SR 2-4 have the same feel; Postal had the same feel, even Postal 1, which was 'darker.' If this game is attempting to avoid those tropes, and instead becomes 'shoot people because you had a bad day in a gritty, realistic world,' it's effectively shooting fish in a barrel. They can't fight back; they're powerless civilians. The worst you'll probably face is a SWAT team, and even that will probably be after you kill a pretty obnoxious number of people.
If you can have fun shooting fish in a barrel, by all means. Have at it. I can't.
 

striferser

Huge Nickleback Fan
Yeah, no. I've actually had better insight into spree killers than I would ever get from this rancid pile of shit.

Each person perceive it differently, so yeah, if it's for you this game bring nothing new, then that's it. You don't think it's worth the attention or trying it. And that's fine really.

based on the tone of the trailer, do you honestly think this game is going to provide a value perspective?

Yes. Even the whole thing surrounding this is interesting to me. It's not just the trailer, the reaction of those who have seen the trailer, positive or negative. Their comment does provide a value perspective
 

ak1276

Banned
Each person perceive it differently, so yeah, if it's for you this game bring nothing new, then that's it. You don't think it's worth the attention or trying it. And that's fine really.



Yes. Even the whole thing surrounding this is interesting to me. It's not just the trailer, the reaction of those who have seen the trailer, positive or negative. Their comment does provide a value perspective

No, the problem is that I have BETTER ways of gaining that perspective, and that's only partially because this game seems completely uninterested in providing a perspective. This game isn't just 'not doing it for me,' it doesn't even seem to be interested in providing 'it.'
 

-MD-

Member
I just realised the people chosen for execution in that trailer happen to be minorities and females. It's their trailer so they decided to show it like this.

First guy looks asian, is a cop. Second guy is a black cop. 3rd guy looks black. Afterwards, three women (one asian and one black). Then, black guy. Male (white?) cop. Female cop. Last person seems like a minority. 3/10 are white, by my guess.

I feel uneasy when that is paired with their racist backgrounds.

This might be worth posting/pointing out if none of them were white but yeah since there are 3 of them it's pretty pointless.
 

junglist

Member
maybe some people want to go on a rampage. I guess its better to do it on NPC's than real life. I thought COD the airport mission was kind of fucked up... but daayum this is definately out there.


I wonder what the backstory of the main character is? Before i judge the game I kind of want to play it. If it ends up just a mindless shooter can't really complain.. I love Mortal Kombat...
 

-SD-

Banned
Yes, the world definitely needs no political correctness but what it also needs is more humour, more self-criticism and more of the ability to laugh at ourselves.
 

Yarbskoo

Member
Hmm... I kind of hope this actually gets released. I have no desire to play it myself, but I would rather see it available for examination and criticism than to be banned and hidden from view. It may not be the most insightful work, but it is obviously pushing against some kind of boundary, and I think that's important for an industry that hasn't really touched on a lot of issues that older media have.

The political views of the creators might be helpful in giving this game some context, but it's not really a deciding factor in whether or not I'd actually want to play it.
 

docbon

Member
These devs are definitely gonna eat off that spiteful ~anti-sjw~ "gamer" dollar if some major controversy arises.

Pretty good business sense considering the probable low budget of the game.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
No, the problem is that I have BETTER ways of gaining that perspective, and that's only partially because this game seems completely uninterested in providing a perspective. This game isn't just 'not doing it for me,' it doesn't even seem to be interested in providing 'it.'

I don't see striferser having a problem with you "having better ways of gaining that perspective", although it seems like you have a beef with him/her saying that it may give him/her some perspective?

He/she already pretty much admits that each person perceive it differently anyways.
 
There are few games that do this for a reason, though; it's an ineffective mode of transmitting those feelings. To do that you'd need a heavy narrative focus (whether you want to admit that or not) and the acuity to KNOW the answer, or at least your interpretation of the answer. Then you need the actual emotional maturity to simulate those ideas.
This game doesn't seem to do that, and that seems to be by developer's intent. It has one goal in mind; kill everyone. Jam your gun in that woman's face and pull the trigger, because you had a bad day at work. Listening to her beg is how you get your jollies off, right?

And at the end of the day, from a purely game-ist viewpoint, THAT'S why it's going to be a piece of shit. Killing random civilians might be fun to some people (not me) in GTA, but that's more because of the arcadey feel of the game; you have a fucking rocket launcher and you're doing crazy shit, and in 5 minutes the National Guard will come out. It's so stupid and ridiculous that people can have fun with it, even if I think those people are way too easily entertained. SR 2-4 have the same feel; Postal had the same feel, even Postal 1, which was 'darker.' If this game is attempting to avoid those tropes, and instead becomes 'shoot people because you had a bad day in a gritty, realistic world,' it's effectively shooting fish in a barrel. They can't fight back; they're powerless civilians. The worst you'll probably face is a SWAT team, and even that will probably be after you kill a pretty obnoxious number of people.
If you can have fun shooting fish in a barrel, by all means. Have at it. I can't.

I do agree this wouldn't be an effective way of doing that. But people here are accusing him of projecting his own ideals into the game, which would be something to learn from. It seems to me the developer isn't doing that.

From a gameplay standpoint this is possibly very similar to other systems in games. If it is just walking around and you are able to shoot people that is one thing. But I assume there is a goal in this game. If you have 7 levels with a connected story it is likely that you have some sort of goal to achieve in the game before you unlock the next level. Since they refer to a "mayhem" genre I assume you have to rack up as many kills as you can while the opposition gets stronger the more you progress. Which is a perfectly fine gameplay system and widely used. It is the context that people bother and I think that is a perfectly viable reason to not play the game, but not to attack the developers for doing so.

Personally, I enjoy being sadistic to NPCs in games. I love gore in games, shooting limbs off is fun, strapping C4 to someone and blow them up is fun to me. All kinds of things that are done by plenty of players in sandbox games at which point the context argument is a difficult one to make. This game just gets straight to the essence.
 

Coreda

Member
Motivation for the main character is utter nonsense, and seems like a cheap way out of actually developing a character.

Considering motivation for killing in games is important (so there is some justification/motivation/enjoyment for the player), this game sounds like a high schooler's emo vision. Had the main character an interesting backstory and reasoning behind the killing spree it would both make the gameplay more compelling and the justification (at the very least from the character's point of view). I don't see many people wanting to simply kill innocent people.

Would have been interesting to see something like the film They Live, where there are aliens amongst the human population that can only been seen when wearing special glasses. Without any interesting motivations or engaging premise I can see the gameplay getting repetitive and a turn-off quick, which is a shame as the underlying isometric gameplay seems pretty decent.
 

Jamie OD

Member
I'm not bothered by the game but the reason it's being made (games are apparently becoming too colorful, too politically correct and trying too much to be art) sounds like the developer is trying to fix problems that don't exist.
 
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