• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
If Azure and Gadgetzan are moved to wild... #RIP Rogue #RIG
Blizzard was very clear they want to get rid of the decks that are mostly made up of Classic cards and never change, so almost assuredly Miracle Rogue is going.

They've also been publicly critical of Azure Drake.

If you can think of other decks that are overwhelmingly Classic cards (maybe Freeze Mage?), they're probably headed out the door too.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Blizzard was very clear they want to get rid of the decks that are mostly made up of Classic cards and never change, so almost assuredly Miracle Rogue is going.

They've also been publicly critical of Azure Drake.

If you can think of other decks that are overwhelmingly Classic cards (maybe Freeze Mage?), they're probably headed out the door too.
Im cool with it.
I've been asking for a new Rogue archetype since forever so im ok if they move the "miracle engine" to wild.
But yeah i expect a bunch of complaining though.
 

Blizzard

Banned
I've been getting mediocre drops, but last night I got Sunfury Protector which is rare. Is that at all useful for a Druid deck improvement?

I'm using this deck except with a Streetwise Investigator instead of Pit Fighter: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/719813-f2p-beast-druid

Also, what is the single biggest improvement I could make if I craft 1-2 more cards? I'm wondering if I can improve this slightly and get from 19 down to 17 or so.
 

Dahbomb

Member
These stats are going to be very good in re-reviewing cards.

For example, even though we don't see any Hunters online we can still have an idea of where their new cards are matching up. No surprise, Alley Cat, Rat Pack, Shaky Zipgunner, Trogg Beastrager and Kodo are still making Hunter lists at a solid rate.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Kazakus isn't even in the top 3 most used Legendary.

Patches, Thalnos and Brann out pace it and no surprise because they are usable in more decks.

Though surprisingly Kazakus is used more than Reno Jackson which makes little sense to me because I don't know any deck that runs Kazakus but doesn't run Reno.


Seems like Kibler is about to pop off about weapons too. Maybe in his next video.
 
I think the goal is to have the classic set less relied on in deck building, but I don't think their method to achieve that goal necessarily means nuking classic cards that still get used.

For example, if they want rogue to use less classic cards, they should add better cards in expansions. Rogue has gotten some okay cards. Playable, maybe. Also a lot of trash. Probably more trash than solid cards, unfortunately. And many many fringe/niche cards.

Blizzard thinks shadowstep/shadowcaster should be a strong archetype. But in MSG they barely added good enough cards to be used in that type of deck. Only 1 good discover card that is a 5/3 for 5 mana. It's just too expensive and stats are too poor to ever last a round. It's arguably good with jade, but I've tried it and it's quite slow. Plus brann rotates and that is kind of a big deal for that type of deck.
 

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
Just lost to a meme Beardo priest deck.

Azure Drake is one of the more fair cards in the game

If you are referring to the Kibler ShadowReno Inspire Priest deck, then it is far from a meme. The deck is pretty amazing if played well. You get insane synergy from the Free hero powers (via Raza and changing your hero power via Shadowform) and then multiple uses of all the inspire triggers on stuff like War Kodo (I forget the real name but it generates a 3/5 kodo each time you use the hero power), Nexus Champion Saraad, and Paletress. You get 2-3 Inspire triggers the turn you play them and you immediately run away with the game at that point. The deck is pretty scary if it draws optimally, and still good when it doesn't because it turns out that priest has a good number of cheap spells these days.

It's probably my favorite deck at the moment although it does require a large amount of concentration to play well. So I don't tend to play it that often since I can't play it and watch TV or whatever at the same time. The deck has hilarious combos when it works. Stuff like Garrison Commander and Beardo giving you the ability to hero power 4-5 times a turn (and when you have Shadowform going that's a ton of damage) or having Priest of the Feast out and a ton of cheap spells will heal you for a bunch life against an aggro deck. The deck is by no means perfect, but it is a ton of fun. The worst part about it is that it requires a SHITLOAD of legendaries to play. You absolutely need: Reno, Kazakus, Raza, Confessor Paletress and Beardo. You also should probably have Nexus Champ, That Kodo Producer (epic), Shadowform (epic) and Garrison Commander (epic). The deck has an insane dust cost, annoyingly. Cool to play though, I recommend everyone try it out. It's surprisingly good, especially when you get shadowform early. It turns out that a 0 mana 2 dmg to anything hero power is really good.
 

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
why are you describing a meme deck?

Cause I feel that writing it off as a meme deck is being flippant and ignorant. It's stronger than just a meme deck. You think its a meme because you see Beardo, but I'm explaining how its synergies are very strong together and how the deck actually works on ladder. Also, you know trying to have a discussion, which one sentence responses are not very good at facilitating. Did you have a specific question about it? I'd be happy to talk more about the deck, since I think its great fun to play.


Great video. I wonder if the design team takes those comments about cheap weapons into account. Using Ooze on a FWA or any of the Shaman weapons outside of Doomhammer does feel pretty crappy. Unless the Warrior has invested a bunch of upgrade or pirate buffs into it, you are trading your 3/2 to remove an axe that got its value already.
 
I've lost to meme priest. Garrison commander lets you trigger new hero powers twice so that 4 drop inspire card that deals 4 damage can be triggered 4 times. And mrrglton "we're all hunters now" finley...
 
If you are referring to the Kibler ShadowReno Inspire Priest deck, then it is far from a meme. The deck is pretty amazing if played well. You get insane synergy from the Free hero powers (via Raza and changing your hero power via Shadowform) and then multiple uses of all the inspire triggers on stuff like War Kodo (I forget the real name but it generates a 3/5 kodo each time you use the hero power), Nexus Champion Saraad, and Paletress. You get 2-3 Inspire triggers the turn you play them and you immediately run away with the game at that point. The deck is pretty scary if it draws optimally, and still good when it doesn't because it turns out that priest has a good number of cheap spells these days.

It's probably my favorite deck at the moment although it does require a large amount of concentration to play well. So I don't tend to play it that often since I can't play it and watch TV or whatever at the same time. The deck has hilarious combos when it works. Stuff like Garrison Commander and Beardo giving you the ability to hero power 4-5 times a turn (and when you have Shadowform going that's a ton of damage) or having Priest of the Feast out and a ton of cheap spells will heal you for a bunch life against an aggro deck. The deck is by no means perfect, but it is a ton of fun. The worst part about it is that it requires a SHITLOAD of legendaries to play. You absolutely need: Reno, Kazakus, Raza, Confessor Paletress and Beardo. You also should probably have Nexus Champ, That Kodo Producer (epic), Shadowform (epic) and Garrison Commander (epic). The deck has an insane dust cost, annoyingly. Cool to play though, I recommend everyone try it out. It's surprisingly good, especially when you get shadowform early. It turns out that a 0 mana 2 dmg to anything hero power is really good.

That wasn't the deck I played he emperor and then played a bunch of zero mama spellswith a justicar hero power
 
Cause I feel that writing it off as a meme deck is being flippant and ignorant. It's stronger than just a meme deck. You think its a meme because you see Beardo, but I'm explaining how its synergies are very strong together and how the deck actually works on ladder. Also, you know trying to have a discussion, which one sentence responses are not very good at facilitating. Did you have a specific question about it? I'd be happy to talk more about the deck, since I think its great fun to play.
There's nothing wrong with meme decks. They are flashy and awesome when they go off. If I had questions it'd be the consistency since that makes the difference between meme and legit deck to me.
 

fertygo

Member
Kazakus isn't even in the top 3 most used Legendary.

Patches, Thalnos and Brann out pace it and no surprise because they are usable in more decks.

Though surprisingly Kazakus is used more than Reno Jackson which makes little sense to me because I don't know any deck that runs Kazakus but doesn't run Reno

I believe these stat about the most ofteñ card played in-game

By that they tracking when the carď played not just in deck
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I've been getting mediocre drops, but last night I got Sunfury Protector which is rare. Is that at all useful for a Druid deck improvement?

I'm using this deck except with a Streetwise Investigator instead of Pit Fighter: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/719813-f2p-beast-druid

Also, what is the single biggest improvement I could make if I craft 1-2 more cards? I'm wondering if I can improve this slightly and get from 19 down to 17 or so.

For crafting, I'd say Living Roots, Druid of the Saber, Mark of Y'Shaarj, Power of the Wild, and Druid of the Claw for sure. Those are all well rounded fast druid cards. If you already have the second Stranglethorn Tiger, Argent Squire, Defender of Argus, Darnassus Aspirant, Ancient of War, 1x Nourish, or Mire Keeper, definitely add those, but maybe don't craft them yet. There's also the free Enchanted Raven from the ONiK prologue.

After that, you'd probably want to give up on that deck altogether and netdeck a real druid deck, probably egg, token, or beast for the cheaper ones. I think egg is probably considered the best of the three at the moment, and is certainly the cheapest. It's a very synergistic deck though, so maybe hold off on taking too much from there unless you can build most of it.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/691312-s33-j4ckiechans-egg-druid-mean-streets-of

Mounted Raptor is a bit of a bummer though, stuck two wings into an adventure that's rotating out soon. All of the faster druid decks like to use it.

EDIT: I should note that your deck probably isn't the only thing keeping you at rank 19, and there might be problems with crafting everything i mentioned if it makes your mana curve too low. I'm just starting with this deck myself and don't know everything. It's an experimental process, which is why i'm not crafting any cards until I feel i can dump it all into one great deck.

EDIT 2: Stupid Van Cleef and counterfeit coin stopped me from rank 15. Annoying how common these crazy turn 1 Van Cleefs are.

http://i.imgur.com/ZVqPgAv.jpg
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Vicious Syndicate: Top Cards Played During the Mean Streets of Gadgetzan Meta

EhSajS0.png

The gap between Azure Drake and the next card is alarming.

I mean, the first three are neutral. Blizard hates strong neutral cards, so Drake is likely getting gutted (Or if we are lucky, just moved to Wild)

Though surprisingly Kazakus is used more than Reno Jackson which makes little sense to me because I don't know any deck that runs Kazakus but doesn't run Reno.

The stats are based off of what cards actually are played in the games that are tracked, not included in the deck. Kazakus will often get tossed down at a random turn, where Reno is usually withheld to get maximum value.

And yes, it does make the stats less useful. With this being an aggressive meta, the cards that show up high are going to be aggressive or low mana cards.
 
ice block is such a badly designed card, i can't believe that's never gotten nerfed. absolutely astounding that card has lived through so many seasons with reno and they never touched it

complete invulnerability for a turn with a whopping 2 (completely worthless against more than half the classes in the game) cards in the entire collection that do anything to it is just...wtf. malganis was at least fair because you know, there were more than two cards in the entire game that counter it
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
ice block is such a badly designed card, i can't believe that's never gotten nerfed. absolutely astounding that card has lived through so many seasons with reno and they never touched it

complete invulnerability for a turn with a whopping 2 (completely worthless against more than half the classes in the game) cards in the entire collection that do anything to it is just...wtf. malganis was at least fair because you know, there were more than two cards in the entire game that counter it

I don't really mind it as an anti-aggro card. Aggro has been so powerful for so long they deserve to feel the frustration of ice block and reno. Maybe if Aggro was too weak, you'd have a point. I only mind it as a combo synergy card, delaying things a full turn while you assemble and set up the combo, but luckily that combo has been pretty weak lately.

I do wonder where it lands on Kibler's wild test for if it's impactful and build arround enough to be put in wild or if it's bread and butter identity card that should stay around.

I still support the alexstraza move to wild just to make sure that combo never comes back.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Ice Block is definitely a contender for being pushed into Wild.

I don't think it's quite a big identity card for Mage plus it's Epic.
 

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
Ice Block is definitely a contender for being pushed into Wild.

I don't think it's quite a big identity card for Mage plus it's Epic.

I would support that move. In the world where Reno goes away, I think a lot of the bitching about Ice Block goes also. In standard, how good is the normal non-Reno freeze deck these days? Pretty bad right? I don't recall if it is even meta relevant, which probably means that it isn't. So without Reno for the huge 1-30 heal (or 2x of those with Manic Soulcaster hahaha), that deck goes back to running double block and double ice barrier and hoping to draw well? I don't see that upsetting the Mircacoli, Shaman or Pirates of the world.

Without the safety of Ice Block to hide behind that deck is probably grabage tier in Standard which would make it a candidate for new cards to be introduced to that Archetype. Which sounds good to me, and maybe it will let them finally print some new freeze cards for mage that don't suck so much ass!
 
On the topic of cards rotating out, this is probably the list of cards I would at least give some sort of consideration to rotating out. Obviously not all of them should go and some are probably too core to the class to get rid of but these are the ones that I feel like would be the most applicable. I'm not even sure how you would treat rotating out class cards though. Maybe if you did 1 per class but you can't just take 2-3 cards from one class and 0-1 from another, that doesn't make much sense.

DRUID
Innervate
Nourish

HUNTER
Savannah Highmane

MAGE
Mana Wyrm
Ice Block
Fireball

PALADIN
Truesilver Champion

PRIEST
Power Word: Shield

ROGUE
Preparation
Conceal
Sap

SHAMAN
Flametongue Totem
Feral Spirit
Doomhammer

WARLOCK
Power Overwhelming
Doomguard

WARRIOR
Fiery War Axe
Frothing Berserker

NEUTRAL
Azure Drake
Leeroy Jenkins
Gadgetzan Auctioneer
Raganaros the Firelord
Alexstrasza
 
Reno makes ice block 100x worse than it is. I'm excited for Reno to rotate out.

Rotating classic cards would be an interesting experiment.

Also Kibler is right about cheap weapons being OP. Especially when combined with STB
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
On the topic of cards rotating out, this is probably the list of cards I would at least give some sort of consideration to rotating out. Obviously not all of them should go and some are probably too core to the class to get rid of but these are the ones that I feel like would be the most applicable. I'm not even sure how you would treat rotating out class cards though. Maybe if you did 1 per class but you can't just take 2-3 cards from one class and 0-1 from another, that doesn't make much sense.

DRUID
Innervate
Nourish

HUNTER
Savannah Highmane

MAGE
Mana Wyrm
Ice Block
Fireball

PALADIN
Truesilver Champion

PRIEST
Power Word: Shield

ROGUE
Preparation
Conceal
Sap

SHAMAN
Flametongue Totem
Feral Spirit
Doomhammer

WARLOCK
Power Overwhelming
Doomguard

WARRIOR
Fiery War Axe
Frothing Berserker

NEUTRAL
Azure Drake
Leeroy Jenkins
Gadgetzan Auctioneer
Raganaros the Firelord
Alexstrasza

This is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm talking about.

Gotta rotate every good card, because the last thing you want in your card game is good cards apparently.

this thread is ridiculous
 

Pooya

Member
This is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm talking about.

Gotta rotate every good card, because the last thing you want in your card game is good cards apparently.

this thread is ridiculous

don't worry, 99 percent of that won't happen lol. Blizzard is quite conservative. Specially something like innervate (or fireball) which they have said is core to the class already.
 
This is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm talking about.

Gotta rotate every good card, because the last thing you want in your card game is good cards apparently.

this thread is ridiculous

Or every deck can be made up of the same 20 cards for eternity and Hearthstone can die a slow death.

Not to mention that probably isn't even 10% of the "good" cards in Basic/Classic.
 
I don't really mind it as an anti-aggro card. Aggro has been so powerful for so long they deserve to feel the frustration of ice block and reno. Maybe if Aggro was too weak, you'd have a point. I only mind it as a combo synergy card, delaying things a full turn while you assemble and set up the combo, but luckily that combo has been pretty weak lately.

ice barrier is anti aggro. and completely fair at that.

ice block on the other hand is just anti every win condition you ever dreamed of for the class with the most burst damage possibilities in the game. its stupid
 

Dahbomb

Member
This is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm talking about.

Gotta rotate every good card, because the last thing you want in your card game is good cards apparently.

this thread is ridiculous
Rotating out cards is better than nerfing cards to be honest.

And it allows them to make stronger, better card. They probably would never have made Kazakus if Reno was going to be in the game forever.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Was thinking of making a Wild Renolock list, what do you guys think would be the better 1-Drop pick, Mistress or Chow?
Mistress is A LOT better than Chow.

Already got like rank 2ish in Wild with Renolock last month. That 4 HP heal from Mistress is clutch.
 

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
Was thinking of making a Wild Renolock list, what do you guys think would be the better 1-Drop pick, Mistress or Chow?


Mistress and it isn't close in this meta. Zombie chow doesn't deal with shit in this meta on turn one and you desperately need the healing.
 

Dahbomb

Member
The only Wild cards you should consider for Renolock:

*Shredder as an alternate 4 drop to Mountain Giant because that giant just does not cut it much anymore.

*Belcher and Healbot staples.

*Loatheb is excellent for dealing with some of your bad match ups.

*Dr Balanced. Doesn't matter how aggressive the meta is, Dr Balanced always delivers.

*Nzoth tech if you happen to run against a lot of control. Not necessary because the deck runs lots of win conditions anyway.

*Dark Bomb for Trogg and Mana Wyrms.

*Deathlord isn't too bad either, works like Dirty Rat. Helps against the aggression.

*Void Caller and Malganis combo. You generally pulls this out against some matches you are losing against aggro, get a turn 5 Malganis out from sheer luck. You have to run Imp Gang Boss, Void Walker, Abyssal Enforcer, Jaraxxus and maybe one more demon to get consistent value from Void Caller.

*Implosion is alright I guess.


Aside from Belcher, Dr Boom, Loatheb and Healbot I would consider most of these tech options.
 

Triz

Member
I find Arena more stressful the better Im doing. I went 5-0 with a Warlock deck and I didn't touch it for 5 days. Booted it up today and am now 7-0. I know its weird but Ive never done better than 9 wins, and I just set it aside for days before I play more matches.
 

Miletius

Member
I feel as though the more and more you rotate cards out of classic the more and more you are making the casual player/returning player experience worse. That has to be a consideration.

One of the strengths of a standard format is that casual players are least have a base pool of somewhat powerful cards to work with. Get rid of too many powerful classic cards and that no longer is the case.

My guess is if they move cards/nerf cards they will be very very selective. It won't be any class cards and it will probably be only 1 to 3 cards at most.
 

Blizzard

Banned
For crafting, I'd say Living Roots, Druid of the Saber, Mark of Y'Shaarj, Power of the Wild, and Druid of the Claw for sure. Those are all well rounded fast druid cards. If you already have the second Stranglethorn Tiger, Argent Squire, Defender of Argus, Darnassus Aspirant, Ancient of War, 1x Nourish, or Mire Keeper, definitely add those, but maybe don't craft them yet. There's also the free Enchanted Raven from the ONiK prologue.

After that, you'd probably want to give up on that deck altogether and netdeck a real druid deck, probably egg, token, or beast for the cheaper ones. I think egg is probably considered the best of the three at the moment, and is certainly the cheapest. It's a very synergistic deck though, so maybe hold off on taking too much from there unless you can build most of it.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/691312-s33-j4ckiechans-egg-druid-mean-streets-of

Mounted Raptor is a bit of a bummer though, stuck two wings into an adventure that's rotating out soon. All of the faster druid decks like to use it.

EDIT: I should note that your deck probably isn't the only thing keeping you at rank 19, and there might be problems with crafting everything i mentioned if it makes your mana curve too low. I'm just starting with this deck myself and don't know everything. It's an experimental process, which is why i'm not crafting any cards until I feel i can dump it all into one great deck.

EDIT 2: Stupid Van Cleef and counterfeit coin stopped me from rank 15. Annoying how common these crazy turn 1 Van Cleefs are.

http://i.imgur.com/ZVqPgAv.jpg
Thanks, this is super helpful. If you want to add me on NA, I'm Elrond#11517. I'd welcome the occasional spectate or deck theorybuilding.

Of the cards you mention, I have these:
1x Living Roots (already in deck)
1x Druid of the Claw (already in deck)
2x Argent Squire
2x Enchanted Raven
1x Nourish

I'll look to see if I can identify good spots to swap them in. I'm still trying to learn good mana curves and balance between minions and spells etc.

And yes of course I probably misplay things. :p
 
My guess is if they move cards/nerf cards they will be very very selective. It won't be any class cards and it will probably be only 1 to 3 cards at most.

That would be completely pointless. The reason to do anything at all is specifically to disable decks that have been perennial in the meta and that means 10+ cards, generally at least one from each class.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
That would be completely pointless. The reason to do anything at all is specifically to disable decks that have been perennial in the meta and that means 10+ cards, generally at least one from each class.
Here was last time's: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20097355/keeping-hearthstone-fresh-4-20-2016

They did 3 Druid cards, 2 Rogue cards, 1 Hunter card, and 6 Neutral cards.

Then they did a few others in September: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20303031/upcoming-balance-changes-update-613-9-28-2016

The ones from the Classic set were 1 Shaman, 2 Warrior, and 1 Neutral.
 

KuroNeeko

Member
Salty Paladin tells me to go f○ck myself after a game because his N'zoth list couldn't beat Control Priest in fatigue...

Uh, ok.

#rank18thangs
 

Pooya

Member
I don't think they will remove anything from paladin... because they have nothing.

paladin has 4 good cards; Tirion, Aldor, Truesilver and Equality. These always will be good.

Consec is not very good, it's just all they ever had, far too slow to matter. It was only good when you had board control.

Blessing of Kings is similarly too slow and only good if you have board control, it's just win more card.

Maybe Divine Favor, that card is only good if the meta is slow and paladin has good cards to draw... so I don't know about that any time soon.

The rest are just junk. Leave paladin alone, they have suffered enough. I don't think they can help paladin with just one set either, they're lacking so many things and losing Keeper of Uldaman soon too.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
I like how Gang Up is actually more versatile in a Patches deck compared to other decks I have run it in in the past. If you draw it in your opening hand, you can gang up patches and get more tokens early. If the game goes late, you can gang up the enemy's heavy hitters still. I won a game by ganging up the opponents Sylvanas late game, giving me 6 Sylvanases, which was nice.

Right now I'm trying this out, a mashup of the Pirate Package with the Burgle Archetype. It's not a pure netdeck but I believe there are a few similar ones you could find on Heathpwn. I don't think this is tier 1 by any chance, but it is tier fun. Hell, I don't think I could get beyond rank 10 with this.

UqYelIv.png


I recently dropped a pair of Saps for a Drake and a Gadgetzan, and only played a few games since the chagne. I don't think the deck needs two Gadgetzan's though, since it isn't really trying to draw to a specific endgame, but just toss out constant threats and try to out value the enemy with the cards you burgle. Having a single one has helped a lot when I get a basically dead hand of crap spells, and between a Gadgetzan and two Sprints, its hard to not have card draw avaliable later on.


I don't think they will remove anything from paladin... because they have nothing.

paladin has 4 good cards; Tirion, Aldor, Truesilver and Equality. These always will be good.

Divine Favor is also really good. You can't toss it into every deck, but it makes Agro and faster Mid Range decks possible.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom