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[BreezyLimbo]

And poly/hex. You transform their 5/5 to a new 5/5.

Which makes me feel that the Crystal Core is more of a 'map' effect. In that, anything on your side is 5/5, and effects like Ardent Defender/Equality DO affect it since it is layering their affect on top of the Crystal Core one, but things like Hex/Poly don't because it's simply adding another creature to your 'map' and they become affected by the spell.

Like Leeroy Jenkins or Hungry Dragons summons would become 5/5 because the 'map' effect is persistent.

 

[Blizzard]

I normally don't make angry posts, but I would not shed a tear if Priest was just removed from the fucking game. I fucking hate these dipshits so much. The only class that gets me tilted.

They are the ultimate salt farmers, and they commonly play more slowly than any other class for some reason.

 

[Blizzard]

The quest should be a buff to make the minions 5/5 instead of a board state. The fact that silence and debuffs are useless (Mass dispel is useless and equality become a joke) is just infuriating. I think charging face need to go from the game in general. Such a shit uninteractive mechanic that doesn't fit HS at all.

Erase boar from the game, take charge from patches, make Rogue quest be six times same minion, problem solved.

I've played 30 ranked Rogue Quest games since taking notes, and I've ranked up from 19 to 18 at present.

I'm aware of misplays costing me the game in MAYBE 2-3 of those. So either high rank is incredibly random, or I'm somehow misplaying really badly, or the deck isn't near as consistent as some of you suggest. If it was nerfed as described, it would be beyond worthless.

I'm specifically writing down notes every single game, and trying to note what turn I play the quest on. I played the quest on turn 7 in 2/10 of my last games, for instance. In one of those games I played the quest on turn 6 but was already down to 12 HP from a Warlock and died almost immediately afterwards.

I'm planning to keep posting stats. I might switch decks after 50+ ranked games if I can't get past rank 17-18. I have to believe I could get rank 15 with the right deck.

 

[ZealousD]

Which makes me feel that the Crystal Core is more of a 'map' effect. In that, anything on your side is 5/5, and effects like Ardent Defender/Equality DO affect it since it is layering their affect on top of the Crystal Core one, but things like Hex/Poly don't because it's simply adding another creature to your 'map' and they become affected by the spell.

Like Leeroy Jenkins or Hungry Dragons summons would become 5/5 because the 'map' effect is persistent.

I don't think Crystal Core is necessarily too powerful but I would be in favor of a "nerf" that made its effect more clear and understandable. Right now the effect is not easily understood because it doesn't work like anything else in the game. I think it probably should be silencable and hex should make 0/1 frogs, and so on. The effect should be a enchantment that gets applied whenever you summon a minion.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

Devolve doesn't work either.

Tried out quest rogue myself and it does need good draws and your opponent to play slow.

Pulled Umbra. Is it used anywhere?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I don't think Crystal Core is necessarily too powerful but I would be in favor of a "nerf" that made its effect more clear and understandable. Right now the effect is not easily understood because it doesn't work like anything else in the game. I think it probably should be silencable and hex should make 0/1 frogs, and so on. The effect should be a enchantment that gets applied whenever you summon a minion.

If anything the effect should be made to be 'Only your played minions gain 5/5.'. That way minions summoned by effect aren't affected, or enemies transformed/summoned on your side by your opponent aren't affected by the 5/5.

Also, i wonder if Crystal Core is a precursor to 'map' affects? If they ever decide to introduce it..

Devolve doesn't work either.

Tried out quest rogue myself and it does need good draws and your opponent to play slow.

Pulled Umbra. Is it used anywhere?

Yeah, Quest Rogue is most dependent on your starting hand and your first couple draws. That's its biggest counter-a shitty hand.

 

[FieryBalrog]

If Quest Rogue gets nerfed because of Hearthstone player base whining it's honestly time for me to find a new game where the player base is more in tune with the kind of things I like.

The real problem with this game is whenever we have a fun meta with interesting things, the community is always whining about the lowest hanging fruit, and Blizzard then destroys interesting decks because of said whining.

Yeah, Quest Rogue is most dependent on your starting hand and your first couple draws. That's its biggest counter-a shitty hand.

No shit, that's how engine combo decks work. Have you guys ever played a CCG before?

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

Why not just change it to the Mistcaller effect: all your minions in your deck and hand become 5/5.

 

[Blizzard]

I think it can be expressed in how the deck is essentially playing against itself, and trying to prevent the opponent from playing too. The whole point is to draw and make the board as uninteractive as possible until you can finish your quest. And unlike with other quests, which either react to your board (Mage) and put something to interact with (everything else,) the whole point is to remove that interaction.

It's essentially playing Solitaire while also trying to slow you down. Again, see: "Fun and Interactive."

This objection is being raised in a world where Quest Mage exists, whose goal is to draw as many lucky spells as possible while freezing your minions as much as possible, drawing as many "you become invincible" secrets as possible, and finishing by literally making the other player miss a turn of play.

On a less contentious note, I have a 56% win rate with Quest Rogue after 32 games, 55% taking into account one accidental ranked game I played with another class. In that time frame, I have gained maybe 1 rank from 19 to 18.

What win rate do you need to gain 5 ranks on average? 60%, or just get really lucky with streaks?

 

[Lyng]

If Quest Rogue gets nerfed because of Hearthstone player base whining it's honestly time for me to find a new game where the player base is more in tune with the kind of things I like.

The real problem with this game is whenever we have a fun meta with interesting things, the community is always whining about the lowest hanging fruit, and Blizzard then destroys interesting decks because of said whining.



No shit, that's how engine combo decks work. Have you guys ever played a CCG before?

You must loooove Yu-Gi-Oh

 

[Blizzard]

I just died on turn 6 or 7 in two consecutive ranked games. I'm happy games are going fast, but I'm not sure that's a healthy thing for the game in general. Neither opponent was quest rogue.

And for those who feel rogues complete quests too quickly, my most recent rogue game had 1 bounce card and 1 draw card in my top 13 cards. Those cards also didn't include mimic pod or the 3-mana elemental.

I completed and played the core on turn 9, but by that time I had lost.

 

[Dahbomb]

You must loooove Yu-Gi-Oh

No one loves YGO, not even YGO players. Blizzard is still light years ahead of Konami.

 

[Lyng]

No one loves YGO, not even YGO players. Blizzard is still light years ahead of Konami.

Oh yes I agree absolutely.

Also the MTG combo decks cant be compared to HS, quiet simply because you can play cards on your opponents turn. If you could actually interrupt the quest rogues and what not and counter them mid turn, people wouldnt hate it as much.
The main problem with having solitaire decks in HS is that it is completely solitaire, you just sit there.

 

[wiibomb]

btw... I just wondered, what would happen if sherazin is played while umbra is in play? double sherazin with one of them dormant?

 

[Karsticles]

I don't entirely mind "uninteractive" decks so long as they move fast.

Quest/Freeze Mage? Totally okay with me because their decks have a ton of draw, so within a normal gamespan I will know a winner or loser.

Control Priest? What a boring ass deck to play against - it forces you into boredom while it draws one card at a time until you are nearly in fatigue.

btw... I just wondered, what would happen if sherazin is played while umbra is in play? double sherazin with one of them dormant?

Nope, it just kills your Sherazin - lol!

 

[Yaboosh]

btw... I just wondered, what would happen if sherazin is played while umbra is in play? double sherazin with one of them dormant?

No it just immediately goes dormant.

 

[Q8D3vil]

I've played 30 ranked Rogue Quest games since taking notes, and I've ranked up from 19 to 18 at present.

I'm aware of misplays costing me the game in MAYBE 2-3 of those. So either high rank is incredibly random, or I'm somehow misplaying really badly, or the deck isn't near as consistent as some of you suggest. If it was nerfed as described, it would be beyond worthless.

I'm specifically writing down notes every single game, and trying to note what turn I play the quest on. I played the quest on turn 7 in 2/10 of my last games, for instance. In one of those games I played the quest on turn 6 but was already down to 12 HP from a Warlock and died almost immediately afterwards.

I'm planning to keep posting stats. I might switch decks after 50+ ranked games if I can't get past rank 17-18. I have to believe I could get rank 15 with the right deck.

There are tons of variation to quest rogue, some run elementals, some run Vancleef and some dont even have vanish.
right now im running the non elemental one with coldlight and i'm consistently finishing quest before turn 5. If i get godly hand/godly mimic pod i can do it way earlier.
Also, swash burgler is just bananas when you play him 4 times. Won a game thanks to secrets vs hunter.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Oh yes I agree absolutely.

Also the MTG combo decks cant be compared to HS, quiet simply because you can play cards on your opponents turn.

That only helps if you're playing Force of Will specifically, and have it in hand. In which case, you win.

It's an incredibly binary match playing against a deck like Spanish Inquisition or Belcher or Show and Tell.

Quest Rogue is a much more fair and fun version of that. It's more like Ad Nauseam Tendrils, yes it can blow you out sometimes with nut draws, but it requires more thinking from them and there are more open lines of play on both sides.

If you could actually interrupt the quest rogues and what not and counter them mid turn, people wouldnt hate it as much.
The main problem with having solitaire decks in HS is that it is completely solitaire, you just sit there.

The biggest Legacy tourney I went to, I was playing Maverick, a WG midrange deck. I played a match against Belcher. It went like this:

Game 1: I lose on turn 3 after he sculpts a hand over those turns. I have no cards that can interact with him because I'm not playing blue.

I sideboard in Thalia and some other hate.
Game 2: He activates Belcher on turn 2, hits his Taiga on card #4 by bad luck, and loses the game because I kill him before he can recover enough resources to activate Belcher again.
Game 3: I'm on the draw because he lost game 2. I have Thalia in Hand. I will literally lock him out of the game on turn 2 when I play my second land and Thalia. I lose on turn one.

 

[wiibomb]

Nope, it just kills your Sherazin - lol!

No it just immediately goes dormant.

oh that is just devastating...

 

[BreezyLimbo]

No shit, that's how engine combo decks work. Have you guys ever played a CCG before?

I know

I'm just saying people are going 'Oh this deck counters this or that' but in reality the biggest counter to Rogue is their starting hand. They essentially lose automatically if they get the wrong hand, whereas in other TCGs you usually have a few outs if you get a bad hand.

 

[Johnlenham]

Playing quest rogues is pretty boring and frustrating, I usually get within 5 hp of a win before its all hits the fan.
One guy vanishing everything i put down 3 turns in a row while freezing everything as well was mad annoying lol


Its shame most of ungoros cool cards never get seen, ive not even played a druid or warlock in like 20+ games

 

[Lyng]

That only helps if you're playing Force of Will specifically, and have it in hand. In which case, you win.

It's an incredibly binary match playing against a deck like Spanish Inquisition or Belcher or Show and Tell.

Quest Rogue is a much more fair and fun version of that. It's more like Ad Nauseam Tendrils, yes it can blow you out sometimes with nut draws, but it requires more thinking from them and there are more open lines of play on both sides.


The biggest Legacy tourney I went to, I was playing Maverick, a WG midrange deck. I played a match against Belcher. It went like this:

Game 1: I lose on turn 3 after he sculpts a hand over those turns. I have no cards that can interact with him because I'm not playing blue.

I sideboard in Thalia and some other hate.
Game 2: He activates Belcher on turn 2, hits his Taiga on card #4 by bad luck, and loses the game because I kill him before he can recover enough resources to activate Belcher again.
Game 3: I'm on the draw because he lost game 2. I have Thalia in Hand. I will literally lock him out of the game on turn 2 when I play my second land and Thalia. I lose on turn one.

The thing is though you could play blue. If the deck you mention was as previlent in the magic scene as Quest rogue is in Hearthstone, I am pretty sure most would switch to blue decks.

I do have to say though that I have gone back and forth and I ultimately dont think the quest rogue needs a nerf, its just a very frustrating deck to loose against. Much like priest because it makes you feel like you cant actually use your skill against it, but are ad odds with rng in form of either card draw or other random things.

 

[Blizzard]

I can understand the solitaire complaints as long as anyone criticizing quest rogue for that aspect is also willing to criticize quest mage or anything with auctioneer. Even quest warrior might be a bit uninteractive but I guess you can attack or debuff the taunts.

Its shame most of ungoros cool cards never get seen, ive not even played a druid or warlock in like 20+ games

I think druid is known as one of the weakest classes now, though maybe it depends on rank. At rank 17-18, I saw 3/40 druids and 2/40 warlocks.

Much like priest because it makes you feel like you cant actually use your skill against it, but are ad odds with rng in form of either card draw or other random things.

The bolded just feels like Hearthstone in general to me.




OK, so ranked report. In at least 4/10 ranked games today, I died on turn 6 or 7. Three different classes killed me that way, and none were rogue.

After 40 ranked quest rogue games I'm only 55% win rate (22-18) and gained 2-3 ranks (currently at 17). I think it's obvious something is drastically wrong, and I think my deck is pretty standard (https://abload.de/img/quest_rogue_274uov.png). Is there a reliable deck that's not super expensive to win in turn 6-7? Should I ditch golden Amara for Patches and just see what components I have for Pirate Warrior when playing rank 16-20?

 

[Dahbomb]

OK, so ranked report. In at least 4/10 ranked games today, I died on turn 6 or 7. Three different classes killed me that way, and none were rogue.

After 40 ranked quest rogue games I'm only 55% win rate (22-18) and gained 2-3 ranks (currently at 17). I think it's obvious something is drastically wrong, and I think my deck is pretty standard (https://abload.de/img/quest_rogue_274uov.png). Is there a reliable deck that's not super expensive to win in turn 6-7? Should I ditch golden Amara for Patches and just see what components I have for Pirate Warrior when playing rank 16-20?

Oh...

You don't have Patches in your Rogue deck...

 

[Blizzard]

Oh...

You don't have Patches in your Rogue deck...

Yep, though with my recent golden Amara drop I could craft him at last. I'm guessing that's worth it for Rogue and Warrior decks, even if I stop playing Quest Rogue?

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

Yep, though with my recent golden Amara drop I could craft him at last. I'm guessing that's worth it for Rogue and Warrior decks, even if I stop playing Quest Rogue?

Patches is going to go into every aggro deck until he rotates in 12 months. Even Druids and Shamans run him with Corsair and Deckhand. Hell, hyper-aggressive hunters run him too, although midrange is much better than that deck right now.

 

[FieryBalrog]

The thing is though you could play blue. If the deck you mention was as previlent in the magic scene as Quest rogue is in Hearthstone, I am pretty sure most would switch to blue decks.

You can equally play Dirty Rat. Also, and I know people are glossing over this but, the Rogue doesn't auto-win the game after they cast Crystal Core. It is, actually, quite possible for certain decks to overpower them well after Crystal Core resolves. This is dramatically different from the true MtG solitaire decks that will literally end the game on their combo turn which can be as early as turn 1, or they will have so many ridiculous resources that you might as well concede.

Also being forced to play Brainstorm decks to avoid auto-loss to every possible nonsense combo deck is a big part of why I stopped playing Legacy (because if you're playing 4x FoW, you're sure as shit playing 4x Brainstorm and the rest of the blue cantrip shell if you're playing competitively). I own a playset of FoW and enough blue duals to make a Legacy deck but I prefer not to.

 

[SonicXtreme]

Golden priest on ladder held on to amara for 3 turns...emptied the board of his 6 minion nzoth. Respect the brood, kids

Taunt warrior don't want none either

 

[Blizzard]

I think those are literally the only quest hunter wins I've ever seen posted. What sort of winrate do you get?

 

[patchday]

Yep, though with my recent golden Amara drop I could craft him at last. I'm guessing that's worth it for Rogue and Warrior decks, even if I stop playing Quest Rogue?

huh so you have a Quest rogue maybe you should stick to it Idk. my win rate with quest rogue is below 50% so I don't play it much. I love the idea that the minions cant be polymorphed (well they can but you know what I mean). I think it's really awesome and kinda broken at the sametime. Because its not apparent to the opponent hexing the average minion is just giving them a free taunt

btw when I first started I had to stay away from Rogue. I couldn't climb out of Rank 20 with it. I went with a Hunter build and mustered up all my dust to craft CoTW. such good times that was now CoTW is nerfed

Oh yes I agree absolutely.

Also the MTG combo decks cant be compared to HS, quiet simply because you can play cards on your opponents turn. If you could actually interrupt the quest rogues and what not and counter them mid turn, people wouldnt hate it as much.
The main problem with having solitaire decks in HS is that it is completely solitaire, you just sit there.

Yeah ability to play on opponent's turn would be nice to prevent crappy things like Brawl, Vanish, Entomb (RIP in Wild), etc. Granted, Quests probably wouldn't work since your opponent could just cast Counterspell on your turn

I like playing CCGs with that sort of interaction sometimes because it empowers players to block devastating actions.

I like Hearthstone for what it is but when I play other CCGs playing on opponent's turn is something I prioritize (along with including all the cards since I dont want to fund 2 f2p ccgs)

 

[SonicXtreme]

I think those are literally the only quest hunter wins I've ever seen posted. What sort of winrate do you get?

70 % with coin, 50 without
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/807670-u-bred-raptors-60-wr-marsh-queen
Deck is a smidge better in wild with brann and quickshot but wild has a lot more healing and better aoe so I've been playing it in standard lately

 

[IceMarker]

As a control/mid-range player, Quest Rogue STILL needs to die in a fucking grease fire.

 

[f0lken]

I got fireplume heart from a pack, it feels... wrong to play control warrior without sylvanas, ragnaros, Justicar and drakes, but I still like the deck

 

[Blizzard]

70 % with coin, 50 without
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/807670-u-bred-raptors-60-wr-marsh-queen
Deck is a smidge better in wild with brann and quickshot but wild has a lot more healing and better aoe so I've been playing it in standard lately

It's so weird that half the time winrate would be so different, but I guess that's the nature of turn-based games.


On another note, I'm finishing up the Karazhan solo games, and I kind of miss the days when legendary minions played long pieces of music. Medivh and Varian Wrynn had neat musical themes.

 

[SonicXtreme]

It's so weird that half the time winrate would be so different, but I guess that's the nature of turn-based games.


On another note, I'm finishing up the Karazhan solo games, and I kind of miss the days when legendary minions played long pieces of music. Medivh and Varian Wrynn had neat musical themes.

Nah when half your deck is one drops getting the coin is HUGE, coin allows things like t1 juggler, t1 alley cat into scavenging hyena, even t1 novice engineer gets more stuff in your hand with something to ping on the board, with that dead mana quest the coin is bae

 

[Blizzard]

Nah when half your deck is one drops getting the coin is HUGE, coin allows things like t1 juggler, t1 alley cat into scavenging hyena, even t1 novice engineer gets more stuff in your hand with something to ping on the board, with that dead mana quest the coin is bae

I mean I believe you, it's just weird to think that half the time, you randomly have a much worse chance of winning.

 

[SonicXtreme]

I mean I believe you, it's just weird to think that half the time, you randomly have a much worse chance of winning.

The way the deck is played, it's not that weird. I win with board control and combos, me being able to get out beasts early and use hyena, timber wolf, etc to make good trades is why I win. When my opponent chooses when to trade, that's when it's tough. And without the coin, turn 1 always results in nothing on the board and playing catchup. Playing coin, I can cherry pick, alley cat, fiery bat, juggler, etc depending on what I think will best allow me to steal the board from opponent. Much harder to do so without the coin, this quest is very different from the others and that's why most people can't build or play well with it. For instance against warrior I NEED minions on the board for turn 3 kill command or for timber wolf combo to blast through tar creeper, I can't do that as well with a dead turn 1. Difficult deck to play reminds me of old anyfin more than anything. Perhaps without the coin I need to skip playing quest turn 1 more often, you're right it probably shouldn't be that huge of a gap, very tough decision to make tho

 

[KuroNeeko]

Man, I'm such a scrub.

Been saving dust for Sunkeeper / Sherazin, but blew it all on Giant Anacondas and Primordial Drakes....lol

Probably at about a 50% WR with Ramp Druid now at around rank 14.
Giant Anaconda is preeeeeetty fun.

Seeing a lot more aggro now, but I think part of that is because of TS's Meta Snapshot. I expect that the meta will really start solidify tomorrow with VS's first meta report. People will just read the report and play whatever they're told is best.

Think I'm going to save up some dust for some Primordial Glyphs. That mage deck Fertygo posted looks fun and I'm try to level up some other classes.

Gonna try Renounce Darkness again during lunch. lol

 

[The Last One]

This game is making me hate the number 5.

 

[scarlet]

This game is making me hate the number 5.

Same. One more win to reach 5 and now I'm back at 8.

 

[manhack]

Seeing a lot more aggro now, but I think part of that is because of TS's Meta Snapshot. I expect that the meta will really start solidify tomorrow with VS's first meta report. People will just read the report and play whatever they're told is best.

My feeling right now is that even though there are a few "best decks", there really are a bunch of "great decks". It feels a bit more like pre-standard days where there were a bunch of viable archetypes despite having a few meta shapers around. I used to regularly get high ranks and even Legend with decks that weren't cream of the crop.

 

[Nachos]

Would it be safe to start making crafting decisions based on the VS report in two days? Midrange paladin looks really appealing, but making it would basically drain me of all my dust. And I'm only now starting to pay attention to the meta, so I don't know how often or how drastically it tends to change.

 

[Blizzard]

I did it! I finally hit rank 15 after getting lucky with a streak. Here is my Quest Rogue deck:

For 15-10 I'm thinking I'll try Warrior.


I tried to create http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/aggro-pirate-warrior-deck-list-guide/ but was missing cards so I ended up with this for Pirate Warrior:

I tried to create http://imgur.com/6zAP3pw but was missing cards so I ended up with this for Quest Warrior:

For any of these decks, if some players who have used the archetype heavily can offer advice about my card choice, I would appreciate it. I have basically no dust but can consider high-priority options in the future.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[Blizzard]

Pirate warrior may be the best deck in the game, and quest druid one of the worst in the game, but my first attempt at rank 15 pirate warrior immediately got crushed by quest druid. They killed me without even finishing the quest.

 

[Yaboosh]

What y'all think about this tempo mage from Reddit.

I still don't have tony so I'd have to craft him and the glyphs but the glyphs are an auto craft anyway.

The secrets/scientists and boom are the more questionable inclusions to me. But not sure.

 

[ZealousD]

https://hsreplay.net/replay/CcFi6fGsShBLwvR8gZ93Li

 

[patchday]

I've lost my will to play ladder at Rank 10. There's no deck that I actually enjoy playing that has a chance to climb. I play a few games and lose, then get mad and switch to Pirate Warrior and even if I win, I just feel defeated.

This happens too me (but in Casual of all places)

I go into Casual playing some weak deck (like all battlecry minions), get ran over, then switch to Pirate warrior. My friend spectated me and laughed. I'll unload on 2-3 helpless noobs. then once sated, the hulk rage dies down then I go back to ladder playing elemental shaman again

 

[patchday]

just got a rage friend request from a Hunter (well I'm assuming so- I never get legit friend requests from defeated opponents). I didnt let him play anything at all. I just relentlessly cleared his board til he ran out of resources.

https://hsreplay.net/replay/CcFi6fGsShBLwvR8gZ93Li

lol Hunter quit soon as he saw that Taunt? must be full of tilt already

I did it! I finally hit rank 15 after getting lucky with a streak. Here is my Quest Rogue deck:

For 15-10 I'm thinking I'll try Warrior.


I tried to create http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/aggro-pirate-warrior-deck-list-guide/ but was missing cards so I ended up with this for Pirate Warrior:

I tried to create http://imgur.com/6zAP3pw but was missing cards so I ended up with this for Quest Warrior:

For any of these decks, if some players who have used the archetype heavily can offer advice about my card choice, I would appreciate it. I have basically no dust but can consider high-priority options in the future.

The Quest rogue deck looks nice. maybe add Vanish to cause maximum tilt

Idk bout those Taunt Warrior decks. The only Taunt war decks I've liked are the control warrior variants. I'd drop that 0/7 taunt and replace with cornered sentry since you got 2 whirlwinds but no sleep w/fishes. I still dont know tho since no brawl and the other Wallet warrior essentials

and why curator you have no dragons in there?

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

2 Weeks later these seem to be the "Tier S" cards of the expansion, using the standard of "these are going to be in almost every deck of that class for the next 2 years".

• Primordial Glyph
• Shadow Visions
• Crackling Razormaw
• Arcanologist
• Hydrologist
• Radiant Elemental

And Slightly below that:

• Mimic Pod
• Sunkeeper Tarim
• Jeweled Macaw
• Hallucination

Vilespine Slayer, Sherazin and Lyra just missed the cut off the second list. Also I haven't played more than 5 games of Shaman so maybe Kalimos and Hot Spring Guardian should be up there too.

I'm Ignoring neutrals, but I would put Stonehill Defender, Tar Creeper, Primordial Drake and Fire Fly on the two lists somewhere.. also the elemental package neutrals, Servant of Kalimos and Blazecaller especially.