I love all of the side characters, there so "relaxed" and "normal" in an odd sense.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Horizon Zero Dawn SPOILERS Thread
- Thread starter vivekTO
- Start date
Didn't Sylens basically say that to Aloy. She says she doesn't trust him, and he says something like they have mutual beneficial relationship. He wants something and is using Aloy to get it. And she is using his knowledge. I think he got what he wanted at the end and will be the villain in the next one.
Complistic
Member
Since Gaia hasn't been brought back online and they spent a significant amount of time on the dynamics between sylens and aloy, I think another horizon starring aloy is a no brainer. Would be surprised to see a third one, but who knows.
He was a fantastic character. He was a complete dick after Aloy discovers that her "mother" died centuries ago, and only apologizes when he realizes he's made a social faux pas.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I was very surprised how much emotion this simple interaction brought out in me so early in the game. We hardly knew her yet, yet the scene was so well put together in all regards that I felt a deep pang of sadness.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
Time-skip three years, Aloy has been slowly rebuilding GAIA, but Derangement only got worse with time. New dangerous robots popping up every now and then, sometimes even attacking settlements. Aloy hits a wall and knows she needs to finish her job else humans will be in real danger, so she decides to go after Sylens, since he seems to know a bunch of stuff. Hijinks ensue.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I can see that. I feel it could be set in Nevada instead of Utah, since that is where Aloy went post-game.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
So I have 5 logs from Elisabet that are still "under repair".... does anyone know how long they will take? I remember in game Sylens said "days, weeks, months, years" or something along those lines. A few of them already finished, a couple before the story finished and then one more shortly after IIRC
NoSkillz187
Member
Any speculation on who sent the signal to waken HADES? At first I thought it was Ted but nope.
MegaSackman
Member
The game cheated, you probably already have them repaired, check the names of the following text logs, they are the same but repaired.
wapplew
Member
That 5 logs are genius story telling.
paragonpro
Banned
The trailers made it seem like youd fight one of the giant swarm bots like the one that died on the mountain, did that get cut
Also how was elisabits body at the family ranch? I thought she died outside of that mountain facility
Also how was elisabits body at the family ranch? I thought she died outside of that mountain facility
Nah. Looking back at the trailers, it actually shows the real final boss in them. xD
As for Elisabet, after telling the others that she can't come back in, she said that she was going home. The ending then shows she was successful in reaching her home, but no doubt died shortly thereafter.
wapplew
Member
So, humanity advance to feudalism in short period thanks to language?
Who teach first batch of new human English anyway, shouldn't new human develop some kind of AI accent? They should talk like Siri or something similar to Samina with that short Apollo video? It's weird that they all speak proper American English when they raise by talking AI.
Oversight by GG?
Who teach first batch of new human English anyway, shouldn't new human develop some kind of AI accent? They should talk like Siri or something similar to Samina with that short Apollo video? It's weird that they all speak proper American English when they raise by talking AI.
Oversight by GG?
MattGalvatron
Member
Ok so I just got to the part where you exit mother and alloy goes crazy on her old tribe and then it clicked. This game just blew my mind about what the meta context of it all is about.
Basically this is an analogy for our current time. Technology brings us closer to the truth, the reality is were humans, there are no gods and that we are our own worst enemies. We kill each other and destroy the planet by using up its resources and making things that are destructive. Alloy, the main character, is more privy to information (the internet, reading, younger generation) while the majority of people are primitive and listen to tales passed to them from before (the bible, the Torah etc) these people are uninformed and because of that they base their beliefs on fantasy created by people that had no access to science, information and technology. The main character, once privy to this information realizes how naive and flawed her people's viewpoints are. She sees how terrible it is that they treat others who are different, who don't fit their beliefs are. These are people who deemed her to be an outsider (gay, black , whatever) that don't fit their restrictive religions viewpoints. This game is like a hardcore pro science, atheist game that is trying to show how destructive religions and old beliefs are.
Basically this is an analogy for our current time. Technology brings us closer to the truth, the reality is were humans, there are no gods and that we are our own worst enemies. We kill each other and destroy the planet by using up its resources and making things that are destructive. Alloy, the main character, is more privy to information (the internet, reading, younger generation) while the majority of people are primitive and listen to tales passed to them from before (the bible, the Torah etc) these people are uninformed and because of that they base their beliefs on fantasy created by people that had no access to science, information and technology. The main character, once privy to this information realizes how naive and flawed her people's viewpoints are. She sees how terrible it is that they treat others who are different, who don't fit their beliefs are. These are people who deemed her to be an outsider (gay, black , whatever) that don't fit their restrictive religions viewpoints. This game is like a hardcore pro science, atheist game that is trying to show how destructive religions and old beliefs are.
Not sure what the writers intended but ultimately everyone will have a different read on the story. Just some hypothetical examples
Religious/Creationist Read
Horizon set in a world where humanity enjoys the benefits of inteligent design and a loving creator who wants to humanity succeed against the forces of darkness
Capatalist
Humanity was saved thanks to the cooperation of free enterprise and Government working together on project zero dawn
Communist
The world was destroyed by individuals acting beyond their station. If everyone was comunist Faro wouldnt have destroyed the world because the comittee would never have allowed his work to exist.
Doesnt matter if anyone of these viewpoints are right/wrong. The best part is that Horizon actually has an oppinion on the world it was created in. Which is something worth celebrating.
Yeah, they lost the signal for Apollo right? I wonder if some alien entity found it and discovered what was going on and intervened.
Have you noticed how the main cast in medieval movies have all sets of teeth, nice and white? Likely not realistic but.. There's some adjustments in storytelling & presentation for an audience. A person missing three teeth, remaining yellow, but was otherwise in good health would probably be quite attractive back in those days but likely not for modern society ergo adaption.
wapplew
Member
Aloy go to space and shoot arrow at alien in Horizon 2.
Please don't ever introduce aliens for Horizon in the future. I really dislike how some game franchises feel the need to add order-of-magnitude-aspect-changes to the overall lore. Look at Halo these days, it's a mess story wise. I can buy robot dinosaurs but adding an incredibly unlikely event like first-time-alien-contact happening at-the-same time is just a leap too far and would cheapen it all.
And no change or surprise change of protagonist either please. Didn't work in Halo. Nor in MGS2.
Having us not play as Aloy 95% of the time in any sequel would be a big detriment.
And no change or surprise change of protagonist either please. Didn't work in Halo. Nor in MGS2.
Having us not play as Aloy 95% of the time in any sequel would be a big detriment.
Valonquar
Member
Here's hoping they can avoid "zombie" corrupted humans. That would be the easy way out.
The more I look back at the end of the game, the final boss fight was sort of anti-climatic. The lead up to it was AWESOME though. Seeing all the NPCs together and their reactions was great. Having the last boss fight be a OP version of the mechwarrior unit with immunities was sort of a letdown. Pretty sure we all wanted to see the giant mountain sized mech in action, with us pulling Shadow of the Colossus duty running down it's arms to stab it in the head.
The more I look back at the end of the game, the final boss fight was sort of anti-climatic. The lead up to it was AWESOME though. Seeing all the NPCs together and their reactions was great. Having the last boss fight be a OP version of the mechwarrior unit with immunities was sort of a letdown. Pretty sure we all wanted to see the giant mountain sized mech in action, with us pulling Shadow of the Colossus duty running down it's arms to stab it in the head.
Guerrilla has already said that this is an Sci Fi franchise not a fantasy , so i don't think there will be Alieans in the future sequel.
Which is why if the signal did come from space it has to be the Odyssey.
While the boss itself might not have been a new robot or anything unexpected, the fight was still intense as hell. I didn't use the OP armor so I ended up with a sliver of health in the end and used all my healing items too. Really enjoyed it at least. Plus the music was excellent there. Set up the mood so well.
The huge mechs were the Horus class robots, right? But weren't they nothing more than factories designed to build the Corruptors and Deathbringers?
Love the story, especially the part when Alloy found out about GAIA. That was kinda mind blowing with the epic OST playing. I enjoy reading those notes and listening to the recordings, tells much more about the story. Project Zero Dawn was a really huge project and it was interesting how they need expertise from people regarding different subjects from all over the world to get involved with.
Anyone know where did those kids went after growing up in the all-mother's facility room? Probably they're the ones to re-populate planet earth again I suppose?
Anyone know where did those kids went after growing up in the all-mother's facility room? Probably they're the ones to re-populate planet earth again I suppose?
I think the signal came from space, space doesn't mean aliens, maybe humans have successfully colonized another planet, and they sent a signal to Hades to initiate the extinction protocol.
The interplay between a tribal society, advanced machines, and advanced humans in a possible sequel would be very interesting.
The interplay between a tribal society, advanced machines, and advanced humans in a possible sequel would be very interesting.
Valonquar
Member
Yeah, I think the idea is, they were released out into the wild approx 900 years ago, and they are the ancestors of the various tribes present during present day game-time.
I don't think it's that simple however. I think it's kind of reductionist if anything. While yes, there is an underlying criticism of organized religion, and pro-science, it is however, still critical of science itself in many ways.
After all, the world wasn't ruined by religion, it was ruined by an egotistical man who wanted a lasting legacy through his robotics. Science is what both destroyed and saved the planet but the saving doesn't excuse it from having destroyed it in the first place.
I'd argue that, while the Nora's religious beliefs can be restrictive at times, it isn't shown to be all that dangerous. The Nora can be ignorant at times yes, but overall you get the impression that the people are happy and that the Nora are generally peaceful people who don't go out with the sole intentions of hating others just purely based on religion. (Hell, their whole beef with the Carja was because of the Red Raids.)
Even with their new found knowledge, it's more likely that the Nora religion would change rather than merely go away. After all, no religion today is the same as they were in their beginnings.
Now obviously I'm not saying that the game is pro-religious, I just don't think it's pro-atheist. I'd say for sure without a doubt, however, it does promote healthy skepticism and knowledge seeking. The biggest support of this is the one Sun Priest you can talk to at various points in the game. I can't recall his name at this moment but he is someone who does truly believe in the Sun but at the same time is a progressive among his peers, stating that he feels it is a shame that Women are not allowed to be Sun Priestess as he believes if they could that it would be invaluable. So the game shows that there are those in the religions that can learn without simply disregarding everything.
What evidence do we have that the signal originated from space?
I swear it was mentioned to have come from off-world at one point but maybe I'm wrong.
I think it makes sense though. After all, Gaia up to that point was still basically in full control over Earth. Would be strange if somehow the people controlling the signal were still on Earth and she didn't notice them?
If anything the story is anti-fanatacism. Sylens, Faro, the Eclipse - all fanatics in their own way, all worked towards the destruction of the Earth.
There's also a conversation that Aloy has with Syylens about why Elizabet sacrificed herself - empathy vs. logic, and Gaia being taught about art and given a sense of aesthetics and emotion in order to perform her task.
I think it's difficult to frame a story where science destroys all life on Earth as 'hardcore pro-science'. I don't think any system of belief gets let off the hook - generally speaking it's what you do with the knowledge you have that matters. Like the Sun King and his father, or the the disagreements among the matriarchs, or Ted and Elisabet - there is always a light and a dark side.
Snowybreak
Member
I have to say, one of my favorite parts of this game was reading the Vantage text logs. They really have you the sense of how an average person felt in 2065.
Hell, the audio logs from the soldiers at the Grave-Hoard was what really made me start digging into the lore. I mean, going through the game not reading anything can give you a pretty good look at the world, but after reading through the text and audio logs, the whole thing just gets darker and darker.
I'd love some sort of app or document where I could read through everything and try to parse it.
Hell, the audio logs from the soldiers at the Grave-Hoard was what really made me start digging into the lore. I mean, going through the game not reading anything can give you a pretty good look at the world, but after reading through the text and audio logs, the whole thing just gets darker and darker.
I'd love some sort of app or document where I could read through everything and try to parse it.
That's a good point. Also interesting note is that Elisabet herself didn't even seem to be an atheist as she does use 'god' during dialogue from time to time. Granted she never talks about the concept or specifically talk about it but she does invoke it in the usual Christian cultural context of using it without thinking.
I think that makes sense?
Honestly I believe 100% that this game has some of the best audio logs in gaming. You learn so much and it's all really well voice acted.
There is also the heavy Christian subtext of Elisabet's sacrifice (and subsequent resurrection) to save humanity - although these tropes are super common in western fiction.
In the end how 'wrong' are the Nora to believe that entities that can create or destroy all life on Earth are gods? Gaia and Hades are concepts created by mankind that develop beyond the capacity for human control, that develop agency of their own, that require followers to do their work etc.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeN-icSgvG0&feature=youtu.be&t=15130
"unknown origin"
which doesn't really answer anything.
I've just reached the end of Gaia Prime and I have to say I'm not too high on this story so far. Ted Faro seems more like a plot convenience than a character. There was no sound motivation from any angle for why he destroyed the Apollo protocol. I'm really disappointed by this turn of events.
I mean he wasn't in a sound state of mind. Ted Faro was a bit of a egotistical man who wanted his robots to be his legacy and when it back fired by literally bringing forth Humanity's end, he kind of lost it.
In a way, he was still being selfish up until the very end. He assumed if the APOLLO program was to work, then what happened would happen again... Rather than trusting humanity, he just assumed things would go sour and decided to rip the choice from humanity and wipe everything.
Plus why would he need a sound argument? Does a crazy person need a sound argument for why they do crazy things?
Ted Faro was also shown in the beginning as a smart person who created the Faro robots. The Apollo program was designed to help humanity not make the same mistakes again. And even if we assume it dosen't, it dosen't take a genius to assume that humanity still might make the same mistake without that information.
So let's say he is so insane that he has lost the ability of all rational thought and basic thinking. How was he able to hack into the Gaia Prime base like that? So he lost all rational thought to insanity and yet he was able to do high level program access to purge the Apollo program and kill the people in the base. How convenient.
MegaSackman
Member
You don't believe that people damaged psicologically can accomplish really complicated things? I'd say they could even achieve more than in a sane state of mind...
FlutterPuffs
Member
Just because someone is wrecked so much with guilt doesnt mean he is impotent.
Besides, Ted Faro was one of the Alphas for the project. He was there in all the steps, including the construction of Gaia. Not to mention one of the smartest man alive at the time.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
Sounds like you missed a few of his text/audio logs. I thought his motivation was crystal clear. Doesn't mean I agreed with it, but his rationale makes sense, as grim as it sounds.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Reading the GDC presentation makes me optimistic of DLCs, seeing as they have managed to build a pipeline that allows them to create worlds and quests at quite a speed.
Praying for one every day. Cant get enough for the combat.
Praying for one every day. Cant get enough for the combat.
Even still, I consider insanity to be the most boring motivation for an action. You don't have have to give them any sort of complicated reasoning or give you a reason to relate to them. It's just "lol they did the thing".
Yet he wasn't smart enough to equally think out that the Faro incident could still happen again without that history.
Most of his logs I found just boiled down to "Teaching them things is bad." No real reasoning.
I mean you may consider it boring but it makes sense. Remember, he literally caused the end of civilization. How do you think someones state of mind would be after that? It's a logical thing to happen to them.
Lys Skygge
Member
Just finished last night. What an outstanding game! The final boss was a little bit of a letdown. I expected something new, instead we got a Deathbringer. Other than that, I really liked to ending.
I expect the sequel to be about re-setting Gaia. I'd love for Aloy to have to travel further west. Maybe somewhere coastal (I want to see some robot sharks and whales!).
I think Sylens will be the bad guy, but not 100% evil. Zero Dawn showed us Sylens' and Aloy's opposing viewpoints, and I think the sequel will go deeper into that relationship. As Sylens gains more knowledge, I think he'll basically become HADES in the flesh.
I expect the sequel to be about re-setting Gaia. I'd love for Aloy to have to travel further west. Maybe somewhere coastal (I want to see some robot sharks and whales!).
I think Sylens will be the bad guy, but not 100% evil. Zero Dawn showed us Sylens' and Aloy's opposing viewpoints, and I think the sequel will go deeper into that relationship. As Sylens gains more knowledge, I think he'll basically become HADES in the flesh.
It's implied, based on one of the Audio logs, that Ted fell in with a bunch of hardcore anti-technology types ("Pantah Antimod Clowns") as he watched human civilization fall apart. It's not at all surprising that, between the conviction that comes from fanatical religion and his own massive ego, he would take it upon himself to unilaterally destroy APOLLO in order to "free" humanity.
Berserker976
Member
It's just another extension of his hubris. This is still the same guy that literally caused the extinction of the human race due to arrogance, greed, and lack of empathy. The complicated part is that deleting APOLLO was also an act of shame, but he was still so self-involved that his shame became all-important.
Similar threads
- Locked