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[Anton Sugar]

The funny thing about complaining about unrealistic physical standards for men in movies: there is basically an entire volume of movies starring schlubby, out-of-shape (or just average) dudes who end up with hot women.

I don't really think there's an equivalent for women. You'll have the odd movie here and there (Bridget Jones' Diary, for example) where an overweight woman/girl ends up with a hot dude, but it is far more an exception compared to the Adam Sandlers, Seth Rogens*, Jonah Hills, etc. of the world.

 

[Tohsaka]

And while that's fine, I hope those japanese devs realize that those games simply can't sell over here in the same way. The Neptunia series seems interesting when you hear what it's about, and then you look at it and it's the same trope of 12 year olds with 25 year old bodies being sexualized because reasons...It doesn't fit international markets.

The Neptune games are actually very successful in the west, and all of them continue to be localized because there is a market for them. Obviously not enough to make the top 10 in the NPDs or anything, but they're not as successful as you probably think they are in Japan, either.

 

[chromatic9]

I really liked Anita's Lego videos, thought they're spot on.

With gaming they seem mostly haphazard without input. If you step back, gaming so varied and ever changing, that these examples are quite the minority in most cases or are interwoven with complex real world or historical factors that are the way they are and often by themselves are not bad or not out of bounds. I'd like to hear more input, its rather ambiguous at times like she knows she's stretching all over the shop and often qualifies it later to where it becomes a non point in the end.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I really liked Anita's Lego videos, thought they're spot on.

With gaming they seem mostly haphazard without input. If you step back, gaming so varied and ever changing, that these examples are quite the minority in most cases or are interwoven with complex real world or historical factors that are the way they are and often by themselves are not bad or not out of bounds.

I think her videos show that sexist portrayal of women has been an issue for gaming for a long time, actually.

What are some examples she's used that have complex real world/historical factors?

 

[Fuchsdh]

And people ALSO need to realize that her requests aren't saying games like Shantae and Bayonetta can never exist. It means OTHER representing need to exist too. Which they largely do not.

What she is asking for isn't censorship, and she isn't criticizing artists, she is asking artists to create different and healthier depictions of women.

I don't think this washes, in that she's still asking developers to change their games. She absolutely is criticizing them or depictions of women she thinks are harmful. If it were just a matter of "I want more games that do X" then any developer can wash their hands of the issues and say "I'm not trying to make that game" and she would have no rejoinder.

I don't think it's about censorship, in that I haven't seen her advocating for suppression of media with the aforementioned subpar depictions of women, but it most definitely is about changing games.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I don't think this washes, in that she's still asking developers to change their games. She absolutely is criticizing them or depictions of women she thinks are harmful. If it were just a matter of "I want more games that do X" then any developer can wash their hands of the issues and say "I'm not trying to make that game" and she would have no rejoinder.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing something because she thinks it's harmful.

Also, bolded has and always will be true.

 

[Small Mailman]

Do you think she would ever consider starting up her own studio? Obviously she's not a dev or anything but I'm sure she could find a team of like minded people. If you want something done right.... right?

 

[Oersted]

I don't think this washes, in that she's still asking developers to change their games. She absolutely is criticizing them or depictions of women she thinks are harmful. If it were just a matter of "I want more games that do X" then any developer can wash their hands of the issues and say "I'm not trying to make that game" and she would have no rejoinder.

I don't think it's about censorship, in that I haven't seen her advocating for suppression of media with the aforementioned subpar depictions of women, but it most definitely is about changing games.

You phrase it like positive change would be a problem.

Do you think she would ever consider starting up her own studio? Obviously she's not a dev or anything but I'm sure she could find a team of like minded people. If you want something done right.... right?

She is a critic, not a videogames developer. Critics critic games, videogame developers develop videogames. Has been that way since the beginning of the medium and was that way with any other medium.

 

[Fuchsdh]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing something because she thinks it's harmful.

Also, bolded has and always will be true.

I'm not saying there is. She has her beliefs. Everyone does, and they are fully entitled to express them peaceably as she has.

I'm just saying that I've often heard the "why do people X refuse to budge on this issue, we're not taking away Y"-type arguments, specifically to depictions of women in video games, and I think it's full of bunk. There is room for video games to expand—and a lot of that expansion is probably going to come from and for voices and people who haven't had lots of games developed by or marketed for them. But I think there's no way that doesn't mean the "straight white guy game" takes a hit at the same time. Hence, it's not surprising that there's a backlash from those people who are invested or comfortable in the status quo.

You phrase it like positive change would be a problem.

I'm specifically ignoring the debate on her content, and talking about her methods.

 

[Oersted]

I'm specifically ignoring the debate on her content, and talking about her methods.

Her methods are criticism and raising awareness. Again, where is the problem?

 

[Fuchsdh]

Her methods are criticism and raising awareness. Again, where is the problem?

You really need to read better. I'm not even saying there *is* a problem, I'm saying that I don't think the original quoted user's explanation is correct.

 

[GolazoDan]

I like the list that's come out of this article and I find it quite interesting that a game like Mortal Kombat X, at this stage at least, appears to satisfy the majority of those conditions without losing whatever it is that makes Mortal Kombat great. People seem to want to create a bogeyman out of this stuff when it doesn't have to be a severe change. It can be subtle design decisions that, over years and years, can change perceptions.

I think Anita's viewpoints fall on the more extreme side of things when compared to my own, I love games like GTA and Bayonetta, but ultimately she's getting people - developers in particular - to think about these things and I don't see how that's a bad thing. Say previously 1 in 10 games got it right, now maybe 2 in 10 will get it right, then 3 in 10, 4 in 10, and so forth. It's changing games but surely these changes are positive.

 

[chromatic9]

I think her videos show that sexist portrayal of women has been an issue for gaming for a long time, actually.

What are some examples she's used that have complex real world/historical factors?

She brings up prostitutes without much input. Are we saying you can't include this or that you need to have a fully explored side story to back its inclusion or only games centered around it. This can't be a back drop in a piece of media? Most likely its going to be a back drop and not really ripe for quote mining in video form. She edits a lot of stuff but never says much.

I don't say she doesn't bring up some salient points but even then I see female devs say they have a odd reaction to much of it.

 

[Alchemy]

The fact that this thread is anything other then every poster saying "Sure this seems reasonable" is really pathetic. But I'm not naive enough to think it is just the game industry that has this problem, society as a whole is pretty shit in this regard.

 

[Anton Sugar]

You really need to read better. I'm not even saying there *is* a problem, I'm saying that I don't think the original quoted user's explanation is correct.

Well, I definitely think that if she had her way, a certain TYPE of "straight while male" game would go away, but not all games that cater to that specific demographic.

There are a lot of good or great films that specifically cater to that demographic, without being demeaning or exploitative to women. I think overall it's just about creating a better "norm" as far as games go. There are still plenty of movies that unironically exploit women or who have misogynist/sexist characters that the film WANTS you to admire or like, of course.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I like the list that's come out of this article and I find it quite interesting that a game like Mortal Kombat X, at this stage at least, appears to satisfy the majority of those conditions without losing whatever it is that makes Mortal Kombat great. People seem to want to create a bogeyman out of this stuff when it doesn't have to be a severe change. It can be subtle design decisions that, over years and years, can change perceptions.

I think Anita's viewpoints fall on the more extreme side of things when compared to my own, I love games like GTA and Bayonetta, but ultimately she's getting people - developers in particular - to think about these things and I don't see how that's a bad thing. Say previously 1 in 10 games got it right, now maybe 2 in 10 will get it right, then 3 in 10, 4 in 10, and so forth. It's changing games but surely these changes are positive.

There are some devs that will be 100% with her and there are others that will be maybe around 50% with her. That's how I see it.

 

[Mesoian]

Lol that game is not only straight up pandering but also its female main character:

1. Only displays agency and combat skills when possessed by an evil male demon. She's meek and frightened when not possessed.
2. In the end she chooses to become a monk and live in celibacy in order to remain pure and innocent.

Muramasa isn't something to hold up as an example of valuable or inspirational gender characterization

Fair. My interest in learning where the story was going may cloud my recollection.

The Neptune games are actually very successful in the west, and all of them continue to be localized because there is a market for them. Obviously not enough to make the top 10 in the NPDs or anything, but they're not as successful as you probably think they are in Japan, either.

But you certainly wouldn't say that the niche Vita audience is the primary target for the Neptunia audience, would you?

 

[UrbanRats]

I think it's a very reasonable list, and it sets a guideline of what the majority of the gaming landscape should look like, ideally.

The only doubt i have is in its practical application.
It's easy to say "X type of games shouldn't outright disappear, but they should be toned the fuck down, from being 90% of the games out there" (which i think is a true statement) but it's harder to pinpoint which games should actually "get the boot"..
Everyone feels like they're entitled to that niche spot, and it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

The only solution i see fit is to:

1) Make clear for publishers that those elements (such as female sexualization, or the male hero) aren't a requirement for success.

2) Push artists/creators to really think whether or not those elements that are so pervasive (and controversial) are adding anything to the game, if they're there because they're organic elements of the design, or just because you think you need them, out of habit.
Push (through critique) them to think critically about their work, even when it comes to socio-political aspects.

And expect a gradual change.

-
People like to argue about Bayonetta and Dead or Alive, but i think the real issue comes from basically 90% of the rest of games, with their token characters, random bikini armor, or boob window and so on.
You talk about changing the status quo, i think going against a game that makes of sexualization a core pillar of its visual design, is a misguided battle, while the problem is having tit armor in an otherwise "sober" fantasy rpg; that's because there is only one Bayonetta, but there are a million of those rpg around, and i think they create the toxic environment.

 

[Peltz]

I get that art imitates life... but the artist imitates it in his or her own way... that is dictated through their own view. By placing "that's ok" and "that's not ok" in front of the artist... the true dream is not fulfilled... and the end result would be a series of the same works made by different people

Artists need to be educated like everyone else. They don't have free reign from criticism. Their "dreams" aren't made any more legitimate because they often materialize in the real world as art.

If an artist glorifies something I find objectionable, I will object to its glorification and his art direction with criticism. Look back at this thread about the creator of Smurfette. He was an "artist" but his intent and inspiration for the character is nothing short of horrifying. And quite frankly, calling someone an artist doesn't give a license to promote bigotry without significant backlash.

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that "art" which contains themes that serve to oppress another group of people is not worthy of being called "art".

 

[Steel]

But you certainly wouldn't say that the niche Vita audience is the primary target for the Neptunia audience, would you?

I'm pretty sure that the neptunia games were originally PS3 games. Never actually played one or followed them much, so not sure.

The fact that this thread is anything other then every poster saying "Sure this seems reasonable" is really pathetic. But I'm not naive enough to think it is just the game industry that has this problem, society as a whole is pretty shit in this regard.

Chalk it up to people thinking a crictic saying that they want changes is an attack on "artistic freedom". Reminds me of the good ol' "freedom of speech" complaint that comes up when people complain about shitty things others say.

 

[Tohsaka]

But you certainly wouldn't say that the niche Vita audience is the primary target for the Neptunia audience, would you?

Well the fanbase for the series is on the Vita. The first 3 games were initially on the PS3 and were ported/remade for the Vita, followed by 3 new spinoffs and now a PS4 game is coming out in April. The series is definitely niche but it's successful because the games are low budget and don't really need to sell millions of copies to be profitable.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

And while that's fine, I hope those japanese devs realize that those games simply can't sell over here in the same way. The Neptunia series seems interesting when you hear what it's about, and then you look at it and it's the same trope of 12 year olds with 25 year old bodies being sexualized because reasons...It doesn't fit international markets.

I feel like that's gotten the eastern development system into so much trouble.

Neptunia does better in the west than it does in Japan.

I mean, it's a super niche property in Japan that shouldn't really be held as some representation of that market. That's kind of the whole point of Compile Heart in general. Make a ton of subpar niche games with frequent rereleases and it's totally fine if they're all selling 10-20k each. They're probably jumping for joy knowing the west became a decent chunk of their revenue stream.

 

[allotheabove123]

1) Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
This should be up to developers. Some games may not benefit from having more female characters just to meet a quota. Noone should feel pressured to add more if they don't feel like they would benefit anything. I'm all for more of them, but only if their existance makes sense and doesn't feel like its being done for nothing.

2) "Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
Who cares? If we can have male characters with bulging rippling muscles, then whats wrong with doing the equivalent to women? Nothing. Sure alot of the times that kind of armor makes no sense, but that doesn't really matter. Games should be able to express this if the creators deem it so. (and this is coming from someone who doesn't go out of his way to outfit characters like that).

3) Have female characters of various body types
As long as the creators don't feel pressured to do so then this one is just fine.

4) Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
Same as #3.

5) Include more female characters of color.
Same as #3/#4. Although why specifically female? More variety anywhere would be nice (as long as it doesn't feel forced)

6) Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
I can't even think of many games that DON'T do this. And the ones that do are obviously pandering and in that case its sort of a lost cause.

7) Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, not orgasmic
Same as #6. This one seems like a massive stretch. I'm pretty sure if you close your eyes and hurt yourself as a male character your mind could wander and start thinking about sex. This just seems like a petty and stupid complaint; given without any thought.

8) Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies
Why not? If the creators deem it appropriate then they should feel free to do so. Whether or not its in good taste or makes sense is irrelevant, the idea should still be allowed to be presented.

Videogames are an art form. Lets not try to dictate what can or cannot be depicted in an ART FORM. If its something that you don't like or agree with then be an adult and chose not to experience it. If something bothers you about another's work or opinions... FINE. Thats the way the world works, not everyone is going to agree on everything (or anything). I'm not really against many of these ideas, but the rigid enforcement of them seems regressive and ludicrous for this day and age.

 

[Mesoian]

I'm not really against many of these ideas, but the rigid enforcement of them seems regressive and ludicrous for this day and age.

Well then good news. There will never be a rigid enforcement of these ideals. Ever.

Guidelines at best.

Don't really understand how people dont get that.

 

[HarryKS]

Gotta go ass.

 

[Steel]

Videogames are an art form. Lets not try to dictate what can or cannot be depicted in an ART FORM. If its something that you don't like or agree with then be an adult and chose not to experience it. If something bothers you about another's work or opinions... FINE. Thats the way the world works, not everyone is going to agree on everything (or anything). I'm not really against many of these ideas, but the rigid enforcement of them seems regressive and ludicrous for this day and age.

There's no dictating here, and no rigid enforcement just someone listing things that they think would allow a game to be more acceptable to a broader demographic. I don't fully agree 100% with all of her points myself, for example while I feel bikini armor is ridiculous and should be avoided I don't believe that all armor needs to be practical to not be sexualized, but I accept them as criticism and can see where they're coming from.

Also, if you think AAA games are the way they are simply because of artistic vision and not publishers trying to play it safe, I'm not sure you really understand how the industry works right now.

Edit:

Well then good news. There will never be a rigid enforcement of these ideals. Ever.

Guidelines at best.

Don't really understand how people dont get that.

In fairness, you've said that to me multiple times in this thread when at no point did I say I felt like things were being dictated or enforced and was simply discussing minutia of the individual points. I'm not saying this because I'm offended or anything, but there's such a thing as being too defensive.

 

[Tohsaka]

Neptunia does better in the west than it does in Japan.

I mean, it's a super niche property in Japan that shouldn't really be held as some representation of that market. That's kind of the whole point of Compile Heart in general. Make a ton of subpar niche games with frequent rereleases and it's totally fine if they're all selling 10-20k each. They're probably jumping for joy knowing the west became a decent chunk of their revenue stream.

It's funny how some people always point out the ultra-niche games as being representative of Japan, when it's really the family-friendly stuff like Youkai Watch, Monster Hunter, Pokemon etc. that does the huge numbers. You can tell when people don't actually follow sales data at all.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

2) "Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
Who cares? If we can have male characters with bulging rippling muscles, then whats wrong with doing the equivalent to women?

You seem to think raging boobies are a power fantasy for women.

 

[dLMN8R]

1) Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
This should be up to developers. Some games may not benefit from having more female characters just to meet a quota. Noone should feel pressured to add more if they don't feel like they would benefit anything. I'm all for more of them, but only if their existance makes sense and doesn't feel like its being done for nothing.

2) "Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
Who cares? If we can have male characters with bulging rippling muscles, then whats wrong with doing the equivalent to women? Nothing. Sure alot of the times that kind of armor makes no sense, but that doesn't really matter. Games should be able to express this if the creators deem it so. (and this is coming from someone who doesn't go out of his way to outfit characters like that).

3) Have female characters of various body types
As long as the creators don't feel pressured to do so then this one is just fine.

4) Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
Same as #3.

5) Include more female characters of color.
Same as #3/#4. Although why specifically female? More variety anywhere would be nice (as long as it doesn't feel forced)

6) Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
I can't even think of many games that DON'T do this. And the ones that do are obviously pandering and in that case its sort of a lost cause.

7) Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, not orgasmic
Same as #6. This one seems like a massive stretch. I'm pretty sure if you close your eyes and hurt yourself as a male character your mind could wander and start thinking about sex. This just seems like a petty and stupid complaint; given without any thought.

8) Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies
Why not? If the creators deem it appropriate then they should feel free to do so. Whether or not its in good taste or makes sense is irrelevant, the idea should still be allowed to be presented.

1) You're inadvertently treating "male" as the default. It's not about a game "benefiting from having women", it's that it doesn't benefit from not having women. Don't you realize that? The point isn't to add women to meet a "quota". It's to treat women as people. And 50% of people just so happen to be women. Women inherently bring with them different experiences, different opportunities, and different inspiration for creativity. And not just as love interests for men.

2) Men with bulging muscles are power fantasies for men, not men as sex objects for women. It's not like you'll find women attracted to most of the bulky men in Gears of War and such. Women in lingerie is just treating women as sex objects for men, not power fantasies for women. That's the difference.

Maybe if the vampires from twilight were in most games you'd have a point, but that's not the types of male representation you're referring to here.


5) She's talked about this too. But women of color are by far the most marginalized, and hence are most deserving of getting their fair shake at representation.


8) Why not? Because that's all that most creators ever do! It's a trope, and it's fucking boring. Developers should stop doing this because it's utterly boring, predictable, and ends up being stupid, childish, and usually pretty offensive too. By not doing so, they instantly open up room for more creative characters and more differentiation from their competition.

That holds true for most of the things you say should be "up to the creators". Of course it should be up to the creators! She's not saying it shouldn't! The entire problem is that the majority of creators are being boring and doing the same things with women, so if they explore alternatives, they instantly give themselves an advantage over their competition in terms of representation, creativity, potential, and even audience.

Videogames are an art form. Lets not try to dictate what can or cannot be depicted in an ART FORM. If its something that you don't like or agree with then be an adult and chose not to experience it. If something bothers you about another's work or opinions... FINE. Thats the way the world works, not everyone is going to agree on everything (or anything). I'm not really against many of these ideas, but the rigid enforcement of them seems regressive and ludicrous for this day and age.

She's not "dictating" anything. She's making a series of perfectly reasonable suggestions that developers are free to take or to ignore. But if developers listen to them, it instantly puts them in a position to make a more interesting, varied, and approachable game.

More importantly, if you want games to be taken more seriously as an art form (as you directly state), you should actually understand gaming's limitations currently inhibiting its growth as such. Gaming's tendency toward boring tropes is not helping things.

 

[Mesoian]

Gotta go ass.

While true, gotta make that ass look GREAT, not just good, or fat.

 

[Mesoian]

It's funny how some people always point out the ultra-niche games as being representative of Japan, when it's really the family-friendly stuff like Youkai Watch, Monster Hunter, Pokemon etc. that does the huge numbers. You can tell when people don't actually follow sales data at all.

Real talk, I don't want to trust any sales data that hits the west. We have no good indicators of that stuff at all. Trusting media crate numbers is like trusting ********.

Edit: It's so bad it won't let me reference it.

 

[Conkerkid11]

All 8 of those suggestions are no-brainers and won't detract from the games being made. We've already started to see improvement in all these categories recently. Except maybe body type variety. That's gonna be hard to change.

The same thing affects male characters though.

The fact that this thread is anything other then every poster saying "Sure this seems reasonable" is really pathetic. But I'm not naive enough to think it is just the game industry that has this problem, society as a whole is pretty shit in this regard.

Two of the most recent huge TV shows, The Walking Dead and Breaking Bad have some of the worst female characters in existence. How many people have a problem with that?

Where's the #TVGATE?

Why must developers now have to sacrifice potential sales just to be criticized on how well they implemented those female characters everybody begged for?

 

[wsippel]

You seem to think raging boobies are a power fantasy for women.

Many male character designs are completely ridiculous and not really what I would consider power fantasies either. Not that I necessarily think they're meant to be sex symbols though - I actually don't know what they are.

1) You're inadvertently treating "male" as the default. It's not about a game "benefiting from having women", it's that it doesn't benefit from not having women. Don't you realize that? The point isn't to add women to meet a "quota". It's to treat women as people. And 50% of people just so happen to be women. Women inherently bring with them different experiences, different opportunities, and different inspiration for creativity. And not just as love interests for men.

Depending on the genre, the vast majority of a game's audience might very well be male and not interested in playing as a female character for whatever reason. In those cases, it's simply not worth it to create tons of female characters barely anybody is going to play as. Because creating content is expensive. Video games are products produced to make money, not social commentary.

 

[Mesoian]

In fairness, you've said that to me multiple times in this thread when at no point did I say I felt like things were being dictated or enforced and was simply discussing minutia of the individual points. I'm not saying this because I'm offended or anything, but there's such a thing as being too defensive.

...I didn't quote you. And even if these were your words, which they are not, it'd still be true. These are simply guidelines, not hard fast rules that should apply to everything.

 

[TharpDaddy]

I can't really disagree with much on that list. As a stickler for animation the one about people moving realistically is a definite big one. If someone is getting shot at they're not going to be sashaying their hips unless they're a crazy person.

I saw on twitter that the co-founder of The Astronauts (Vanishing of Ethan Carter devs) Adrian Chmielarz posted a piece about Anita. He seems to have a lot of criticism towards her work.

https://medium.com/@adrianchm/top-ten-critiques-of-feminist-frequency-726979b690f1

 

[Steel]

...I didn't quote you.

I know you didn't, I'm referring to previous times you said the same thing to me and you were wondering how people didn't get that. I'm pointing out that, at minimum in the few times you've said it to me, I already got it. As I said I'm not offended, just pointing that out.

 

[Mesoian]

I know you didn't, I'm referring to previous times you said the same thing to me and you were wondering how people didn't get that. I'm pointing out that, at minimum in the few times you've said it to me, I already got it. As I said I'm not offended, just pointing that out.

...okay?

 

[A Link to the Past]

A user who finds every single entry in her list of "demands" to be wrong or bad is suspect

Junior posters ITT are suspect (sorry, good Juniors, but in the context of GG it's always going to set off alarm bells!)

Junior posters who finds every single entry in her list of "Demands" to be wrong or bad are in GamerGate.

Also, I want to vomit when I see "having bulging muscles is just like having bulging tits." Only the most disingenuous person could possibly claim that muscles on women are the same as large breasts, because...

If no one thinks that Akuma is powerful, then they're wrong, and his muscles are what prove them wrong.

A woman's attractiveness, meanwhile, is based not on how she views herself generally, but on what other people have to say about her.

 

[Conkerkid11]

I can't really disagree with much on that list. As a stickler for animation the one about people moving realistically is a definite big one. If someone is getting shot at they're not going to be sashaying their hips unless they're a crazy person.

I saw on twitter that the co-founder of The Astronauts (Vanishing of Ethan Carter devs) Adrian Chmielarz posted a piece about Anita. He seems to have a lot of criticism towards her work.

https://medium.com/@adrianchm/top-ten-critiques-of-feminist-frequency-726979b690f1

Does somebody have an example of a female character doing something like this?

Aren't most bigger, 3D titles nowadays using motion capture for human animations?

 

[Mesoian]

I can't really disagree with much on that list. As a stickler for animation the one about people moving realistically is a definite big one. If someone is getting shot at they're not going to be sashaying their hips unless they're a crazy person.

I saw on twitter that the co-founder of The Astronauts (Vanishing of Ethan Carter devs) Adrian Chmielarz posted a piece about Anita. He seems to have a lot of criticism towards her work.

https://medium.com/@adrianchm/top-ten-critiques-of-feminist-frequency-726979b690f1

Stopped at Thunderf00t. Holy shit.

 

[Tohsaka]

Real talk, I don't want to trust any sales data that hits the west. We have no good indicators of that stuff at all. Trusting media crate numbers is like trusting ********.

Edit: It's so bad it won't let me reference it.

It's not really the same thing, though. Chartz just makes shit up to scam idiots, and it works. Media Create/Famitsu numbers have been posted for a long time. Anyway, I was just pointing out that otaku games like Neptune etc. are actually not that popular in Japan. They usually sell well for a month or so and then fall off the charts, they're very front-loaded. The real big sellers are games like the ones I mentioned in my other post that continue to chart for months.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Two of the most recent huge TV shows, The Walking Dead and Breaking Bad have some of the worst female characters in existence. How many people have a problem with that?

Where's the #TVGATE?

Why must developers now have to sacrifice potential sales just to be criticized on how well they implemented those female characters everybody begged for?

It has become a recent topic of discussion about shows like Breaking Bad and movie like Fight Club where some believe they are toxic to a male audience that idolize these properties.

 

[allotheabove123]

Well then good news. There will never be a rigid enforcement of these ideals. Ever.

Guidelines at best.

Don't really understand how people dont get that.

I don't assume people (most people) think that way. I'm just reinforcing the fact that these suggestions should stay suggestions. Thats all.

 

[Steel]

Does somebody have an example of a female character doing something like this?

Aren't most bigger, 3D titles nowadays using motion capture for human animations?

Dragon age: Inquisition had that type of walk for the women.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

A user who finds every single entry in her list of "demands" to be wrong or bad is suspect

Junior posters ITT are suspect (sorry, good Juniors, but in the context of GG it's always going to set off alarm bells!)

Junior posters who finds every single entry in her list of "Demands" to be wrong or bad are in GamerGate.

Nope, not just juniors.

Let's not be assholes here.

 

[Mesoian]

I don't assume people (most people) think that way. I'm just reinforcing the fact that these suggestions should stay suggestions. Thats all.

I think Anita would agree with you.

And unrelated, I have had entirely too much to drink, so i'll return to this tomorrow.

 

[Conkerkid11]

It has become a recent topic of discussion about shows like Breaking Bad and movie like Fight Club where some believe they are toxic to a male audience that idolize these properties.

I want to know about this male audience that idolizes the female characters in Breaking Bad and The Walking Dead. I actually haven't watched Fight Club before.

They actually ruin the shows for me.

I don't think devs that can't handle the implementation of female characters should. The video game, movie, or TV show can usually be ruined rather easily with poor implementation versus not including them in the first place.

Maybe the devs should hire better writers.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Real talk, I don't want to trust any sales data that hits the west. We have no good indicators of that stuff at all. Trusting media crate numbers is like trusting ********.

Edit: It's so bad it won't let me reference it.

Chartzzz isn't even CLOSE to Famitsu and Media Create in reliability. There's legit sales data behind those numbers. That's the same as saying NPD isn't accurate because they don't give an exact number that isn't rounded.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Lets not try to dictate what can or cannot be depicted in an ART FORM.

Take a sigh of relief, because she isn't.

Her claim is this:

"eight things developers can do to make games less shitty for women."

 

[A Link to the Past]

Nope, not just juniors.

Let's not be assholes here.

Hey, I'm not saying that it's only Juniors, but let's be honest - in the GG thread, I think the first reaction to seeing a Junior tag is to expect the worst. I don't suggest that Juniors should get the piss taken out of them for being Juniors, and much love to the good Juniors, but skepticism towards Junior is generally a fair approach.