Support NeoGAF

[border]

Who the fuck does that? People will praise the themes that MGS2 posits, but no one takes it as seriously as you are saying. Kojima himself hardly takes it seriously, that doesn't mean that he doesn't bring up some very serious real world questions and philosophy into his games. You know how much supplemental reading and research i've done in reference to real world history thanks to kojima's games? More than any other game ever, and thats a damn fact.

If somebody played Assassin's Creed Unity and then decided to go do a bunch of reading on the French Revolution I'd think that is nice, but it wouldn't really change my opinion on the game or its narrative.

The games themselves are full of goofball bits, but from all the long-winded codec philosophizing and overwrought trailers I think it's clear that Kojima does take a lot of this stuff pretty seriously. The series' complete inconsistency of tone is part of why I say this would never work in any other medium. There's no scene in Schindler's List where Oskar Schindler hides in a locker and masturbates to a picture of a woman in a bikini.

 

[Crayon]

The series' complete inconsistency of tone is part of why I say this would never work in any other medium.

They fact that it only works in one medium is part of what makes it such a special game.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

If Tom Cruise died in the first action set piece of the next Mission Impossible movie and suddenly Michael Cera took his place but a guy that looked and sounded exactly like Tom Cruise showed up but the story continues to follow Michael Cera, would you enjoy it?

 

[Damerman]

If Tom Cruise died in the first action set piece of the next Mission Impossible movie and suddenly Michael Cera took his place but a guy that looked and sounded exactly like Tom Cruise showed up but the story continues to follow Michael Cera, would you enjoy it?

Thats sounds pretty fucking amazing. Micheal cera is the shit.

 

[xxracerxx]

If Tom Cruise died in the first action set piece of the next Mission Impossible movie and suddenly Michael Cera took his place but a guy that looked and sounded exactly like Tom Cruise showed up but the story continues to follow Michael Cera, would you enjoy it?

Yes, actually sounds amazing and something that Cruise would actually sign up for.

 

[Leafhopper]

I keep forgetting about those gifs lol.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

If by awesome, you mean so bad it's good, we agree.

Still bad though.

You sword fight the President on the roof of Federal Hall.

Come on.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

MGS is my favorite game series, and I don't get it.

lol

I think this is the majority of MGS fans.

 

[border]

They fact that it only works in one medium is part of what makes it such a special game.

Except that it doesn't really work beyond "LOL It's a videogame - it's supposed to be fun!" The fact that people just shrug their shoulders at some juvenile comedy bits says more about lowered expectations for the medium or the series than anything else. Massive wacky narrative dissonance actually gets called out in most other games.....there's nothing about games as a medium that makes it appropriate or satisfying.

 

[Kodaman]

If Tom Cruise died in the first action set piece of the next Mission Impossible movie and suddenly Michael Cera took his place but a guy that looked and sounded exactly like Tom Cruise showed up but the story continues to follow Michael Cera, would you enjoy it?

lmao..

The way people praise mgs story is beyond me.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

MGS' story is hard to follow these days but the gameplay has never been un-friendly except maybe 3.

It's really not, I can recount the whole series as a set of story beats and this is coming from the guy who can barely remember what he had for lunch yesterday.

 

[Frozenprince]

Except that it doesn't really work beyond "LOL It's a videogame - it's supposed to be fun!" The fact that people just shrug their shoulders at some juvenile comedy bits says more about lowered expectations for the medium or the series than anything else. Massive wacky narrative dissonance actually gets called out in most other games.....there's nothing about games as a medium that makes it appropriate or satisfying.

Except I think more mediums should have a sense of tonal dissonance. It lends more levity and life to it.

 

[LewieP]

If Tom Cruise died in the first action set piece of the next Mission Impossible movie and suddenly Michael Cera took his place but a guy that looked and sounded exactly like Tom Cruise showed up but the story continues to follow Michael Cera, would you enjoy it?

Make it Meg Ryan instead and you've got a deal.

 

[Trace]

You're not the only one.

 

[heyf00L]

The story is ridiculous. It's a mix of interesting characters and plots and the completely nonsensical insanity. I don't really get the overarching plot of the series. However, that's never prevented me from enjoying each individual game.

Basically I wish the story were better, but the games are fun anyway.

 

[Damerman]

Except that it doesn't really work beyond "LOL It's a videogame - it's supposed to be fun!" The fact that people just shrug their shoulders at some juvenile comedy bits says more about lowered expectations for the medium or the series than anything else. Massive wacky narrative dissonance actually gets called out in most other games.....there's nothing about games as a medium that makes it appropriate or satisfying.

Nofunallowedrobot.jpeg

 

[Frozenprince]

I mean ludonarrative dissonance exists everywhere in every genre and medium. It's not inherently a bad thing.

 

[border]

It's really not, I can recount the whole series as a set of story beats and this is coming from the guy who can barely remember what he had for lunch yesterday.

The literal events are not that hard to recap. What's generally pretty murky is character motivations, shifting allegiances, the goals of the various factions, and figuring what the fuck anyone working behind the scenes is attempting to accomplish. Though that's generally because Kojima took a cast of characters that weren't really meant to last beyond the first MGS and tried to shoehorn them all in to an epic 5 game series that spans 30-40 years of history.

 

[Bluth54]

Yeah I tried MGS2 many years ago on PS2 and didn't like it at all, I haven't bothered with the series at all since It's not something for me.

 

[Frozenprince]

The literal events are not that hard to recap. What's generally pretty murky is character motivations, shifting allegiances, the goals of the various factions, and figuring what the fuck anyone working behind the scenes is attempting to accomplish.

I mean that part's actually easy. One faction is trying to control the worlds military's to promote world peace and the other is trying to ensure that PMC's (who are the real global military's in the MGS universe) aren't used like fodder to be thrown away.

Everybody has a pretty simple motivation, tbh.

 

[acm2000]

MGS1 is the only good one in the series, however 5 looks so unlike the usual metal gear bullshit that it could actually be worth playing.

 

[Forkball]

If Tom Cruise died in the first action set piece of the next Mission Impossible movie and suddenly Michael Cera took his place but a guy that looked and sounded exactly like Tom Cruise showed up but the story continues to follow Michael Cera, would you enjoy it?

I would love to see a Mission Impossible film with Michael Cera. I'm mad at you for putting that idea in my head.

I can understand hating the story, but the gameplay is always quality. These games sort of function as a sandbox. There's many ways to achieve a task, and there is a good deal of customization when it comes to what tactics and equipment you use. I would give Snake Eater another chance for sure, it is certainly the best MGS3 game in terms of story and gameplay. Though many are also saying MGSV is perhaps the best of the series, and it seems to strike a balance between traditional MGS gameplay and something completely new.

 

[Peace Tea]

You're not alone OP.

Story wise, I just develop an affection (any kind really) for certain characters within each game, watch events unfold, and rely on an 'MGS expert' to outline exactly WTF happened in said game, post completion.

There's too much bro-losophy, appearece of triple crossings, and dialogue filler (because Japanese lips move longer than the English translation, i guess) to make any sensible on- the-fly analysis during the initial playthrough.

Gameplay wise, the games have always stood above the threshold of acceptable.

 

[Crayon]

Except that it doesn't really work beyond "LOL It's a videogame - it's supposed to be fun!" The fact that people just shrug their shoulders at some juvenile comedy bits says more about lowered expectations for the medium or the series than anything else. Massive wacky narrative dissonance actually gets called out in most other games.....there's nothing about games as a medium that makes it appropriate or satisfying.

What game with massive wacky narrative dissonance gets "actually" called out more than metal gear?

 

[Frozenprince]

MGS1 is the only good one in the series, however 5 looks so unlike the usual metal gear bullshit that it could actually be worth playing.

I find this funny since I think MGS1 is the most "metal geary" of the bunch.

You fistfight your clone brother cousin copy to the death on the back of a giant robot as the facility you spent the last 20 hours in is about to explode because fuck you that's why.

That's Metal Gear as FUCK.

 

[elcuervo75]

I've never played more than an hour of a couple of the previous games. They obviously are not for me. So when my GeForce GTX 970 that came with Batman Arkham Knight was also given a free copy of metal gear solid five I sold it on eBay for $40. Laughing all the way to the metaphorical bank.

 

[Lothar]

MGS1 and 2 both started off with really interesting stories I thought, then the more you played them, the more they became goofy and nonsensical and impossible to take seriously. I wish they had just stayed normal stories about nuclear weapons and didn't have all the nonsense about genes and clones and "love on the battlefield" and talking arms and vampires and other stupid shit. The gameplay was nice though. That was better than the stories.

 

[Roshin]

Personally, I think stories and writing in videogames is mostly rubbish, so I don't really care about it. I just jump in and embrace the nonsense.

 

[bojie1986]

I have no idea what's going on but I still love it.

.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Nah, I don't either. The story of MGS1 and 2 doesn't do much for me, and I find their gameplay mostly adequate at best. Really hate the controls for MGS3, and only enjoy act 1 and 2 of MGS4. GZ though...that's some prime stealth gameplay right there.

 

[acm2000]

I find this funny since I think MGS1 is the most "metal geary" of the bunch.

You fistfight your clone brother cousin copy to the death on the back of a giant robot as the facility you spent the last 20 hours in is about to explode because fuck you that's why.

That's Metal Gear as FUCK.

I managed to ignore most of that nonsense back in the day as the game played and looked so good for the era.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I've never played more than an hour of a couple of the previous games. They obviously are not for me. So when my GeForce GTX 970 that came with Batman Arkham Knight was also given a free copy of metal gear solid five I sold it on eBay for $40. Laughing all the way to the metaphorical bank.

But now your left with a broken game and $40.

 

[StoneFox]

Solid Snake and Raiden are some of the best written characters in gaming but they are surrounded by a story that people equate with "confusing therefore it must be stupid" when the storyline isn't hard to follow at all. Really Ocelot's motivations are probably the hardest thing to follow in the series, but most of the other characters have very clear goals and motivations.

Solid Snake constantly struggles against his soldier genes and his pacifist nature. He tries to retire from the battlefield after every mission, but then returns to stop his brothers and other such forces from doing evil deeds because he knows he's probably the only person in the world who has a chance of stopping them.

Raiden has to come to terms with the fact that he never had his own identity, even his own physical body was taken away from him to be used as a tool of war. Solid Snake was the first person to really judge him as a person and not as a gun with legs, which is why Raiden respects and looks up to Snake. And in MGS4 Raiden finally had his chance to protect his hero in his time of need. Snake kept telling him not to take his path, he did not want Raiden to become like him but Raiden really couldn't help himself.

But no, "lol this series is too goofy to take seriously" is usually what people post

 

[border]

I mean ludonarrative dissonance exists everywhere in every genre and medium. It's not inherently a bad thing.

Ludonarrative dissonance is conflict between gameplay and story - it exists predominantly in games.

I'm talking mostly about tone dissonance -- peculiar, awkward shifts between comedy and drama.

What game with massive wacky narrative dissonance gets "actually" called out more than metal gear?

It's difficult to come up with examples since most games tend to try and have a consistent tone, and generally don't have MGS's self-serious nature. Usually it's the opposite of Metal Gear -- where something lighthearted and fluffy suddenly tries to add tragedy or somber tones. The more prominent examples I could think of would be the time when Sonic games tried to get a bit more serious (Sonic gets kissed by human girl, Shadow runs around with a gun). Perhaps when that hamster got crucified in Xenogears? Though I can't even recall if they were playing that for laughs or not.

The "weird comedic divergence" trope in my mind tends to be more a habit of Japanese games.

 

[RazorbackDB]

Not getting it is part of getting it, but seriously I liked the gameplay of ground zeroes so much that I played through 1-2-3 and honestly I liked 1 but just rushed through 2 and 3. I just can't get over the controls and while I like the story, I don't get into it as much as everyone else seems to. I still don't know what I'm going to do with 4, I don't have a PS3, though I hear it won't matter much for 5.

 

[Rad-]

I liked MGS1 but found all the others boring.

 

[kraspkibble]

Why do people always come out with this all the time "Am I the only one" "I feel like I'm the only one". On the internet, you are never the only one.

OT:

I don't get the games. Played Sons of Liberty on PS2 and had no clue what the story was about but I did quite enjoy playing it but honestly never got far cause I'm bad at stealth games.

Played IV on PS3 and again never had a clue what was happening but I did enjoy the gameplay and played a good bit of the game but eventually stopped because of the long cutscenes. I want to play the game and not watch a movie. Maybe if the story wasn't confusing as hell then I wouldn't mind.

Played Ground Zeroes just because it was free on PS+ and just gave up straight away. I might give it another go and if I do buy V it will be purely for gameplay because I have tried understanding the story by watching videos/reading long summaries.

 

[choodi]

I don't mind the gameplay, but God damn is the story shit.

It's like a 13 year old boy had a go at writing military fiction.

 

[Mupod]

http://www.twitch.tv/uknighted

I wasn't a big fan of MGS2 but after watching these guys explain EVERY little nuance and detail about the game I'm convinced it's a masterpiece.

Watching them made me better at 3 and 4 as well. I was Drew Scanlon-tier when it came to stealth before I saw how you're SUPPOSED to play the games.

I still think MGS1 is the best by far but I really do think the series is amazing even if I didn't particularly enjoy all the games all the time.

 

[Crayon]

It's difficult to come up with examples since most games tend to try and have a consistent tone, and generally don't have MGS's self-serious nature. Usually it's the opposite of Metal Gear -- where something lighthearted and fluffy suddenly tries to add tragedy or somber tones. The more prominent examples I could think of would be the time when Sonic games tried to get a bit more serious (Sonic gets kissed by human girl, Shadow runs around with a gun). Perhaps when that hamster got crucified in Xenogears? Though I can't even recall if they were playing that for laughs or not.

The "weird comedic divergence" trope in my mind tends to be more a habit of Japanese games.

I've never heard of sonic kissing a girl or a hamster getting crucified. It sure does seem hard to come up with examples. Metal Gear gets more "actually called out" for it's story than any other game I can remember. Nobody's ever going to have this conversation about splinter cell.

Do you prefer splinter cell? Based on tom clancy's riveting doorstop? With Dan Fisher with the green things on his head? It's more tonally consistent. And I'm sure easier to follow. It's more in line with hollywood standards, too. I'd take metal gear over that anytime.

 

[Astral Dog]

It happens, we always feel like we are "the only one" of something, maybe we should go see a therapist.

 

[Mob_zter]

I Personally think, Metal gear is on of the best series out there. cant wait to get my hands on Phantom pain.

But i get OP. Story is confusing as fuck. Not everyone will understand the Story in their 1st Run. i usually go for 2 run troughs. Even after that i had to check some explanations on Internet for some things.

But on gameplay i absolutely loved it. even MGS 1.

 

[SA007]

I have only played MGS4 & found it good. Actually I don't like games with long long narratives & unfortunately this game is full of them. Its not like I hate mgs but I am not much interested in them.

 

[KHlover]

Don't need to understand the story to have fun with MGS. In fact I usually read a synopsis of the story before I start a MGS game and then skip every cutscene and codec conversation. Ain't nobody got time for that.
(Didn't save MGS4 tho, that game just isn't fun)

 

[RedSwirl]

I have to admit the MGS games still have a lot more personality than most action games, especially today's military action games. That goes both for the story and for a lot of the gameplay events.

You are not alone. I like the games but I'm not fooling myself, the main reason why I like them are the cutscenes. The gameplay is just not very good, especially in 3 since I think it really lacked a "modern" radar. People complain about switching between third and first person in Other M or Devil's Third but in Metal Gear they somehow think it's amazing. Having to perfectly aim with a controller can be extremely frustrating. Also, AI is bad and sometimes unfair, same goes for the camera...

MGS1 and 2 are based around the framework of a 2D game (MG2 for the MSX). The gameplay in both makes a lot more sense when you think of them as 2D games.

Moving directly onto MGS3 is a big adjustment because its gameplay is designed to be a lot more three-dimensional. The previous two games trained you to look at the radar all the time, essentially like a dressed-up Pac-Man. MGS3 wants you to actually observe your surroundings and move at a completely different pace.

 

[nikos]

I couldn't get into it for a while either. Played the first when it was released but never finished it. Tried again before MGS4 was released and still couldn't really get into it.

A few weeks ago, I decided to give it another chance. I've played through MGS1-3 and I'm almost finished with MGS4. I started Peace Walker but didn't really enjoy it, which is a shame because MGSV is supposed to be a direct sequel to it.

Anyway, it took me a while to get into it, but I'm really glad I did. The series really is a masterpiece. I do understand why people wouldn't like it though.

 

[Sheytan]

It's like anime. Do you understand anime?

I find the story way more ridiculous the then the most anime that i have seen.

 

[Repo Man]

Enjoyed almost all MGS games with the third one being the exception but I do have to say that I found the story in almost all of the games while interesting and having its moments, mostly a convoluted mess that could have done with a lot of pruning and better pacing.

I also found it rather surprising that Kojima didn't have the heart to do some much needed "edits" considering how a lot of his inspiration seemed to have stemmed from films where such choices have to be made. Granted films are a different media but the basics of storytelling still apply to some degree and I was left with the impression that Kojima suffered from the George Lucas syndrome where he was surrounded mostly by "yes-men" who just let him run rampant, bit like Lucas did with the Star Wars prequal trilogy which is pretty damn sloppy.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

As someone who tried playing MGS1-3 and never really got into them, the series comes across as James Bond crossed with Dragon Ball Z as narrated by a Japanese manzai comedy duo who keeps interrupting the story to navel gaze.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Metal Gear Solid 2 has an amazing story.


But yeah Metal Gear games are weird as fuck, in the best of ways.