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[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

There comes a point where you should have felt compelled to go along with the general consensus, and that time was probably 50+ posts ago.

Are you trying to say that the jaguars memory bus can be easily saturated by the 68000?

I looked through the technical docs for the Jaguar and it says

So under normal operation the GPU and DSP have higher priority access to the memory bus than the 68000, and should not be bandwidth constrained by the CPU.

Also execution of code on the RISC cores is much faster from their cache than from main RAM (just like most CPU's) in the Jaguar technical manual this is described as:

This means that even in some cases where the 68000 could saturate the bus, the RISC cores can keep on trucking, and is the preferred way anyway due to GPU/DSP bugs that can occur when trying to execute from main RAM after conditionals.

sources:
Jaguar Technical Manual
AtariAge post discussing the issue

ON paper and IN action are two different things and Atari devs will say that to you very bluntly.

What's interesting is that AVP did save the Jaguar for a couple more years and got people to look at other games to 4x it's sales from where it was before, which was a decent launch then a very rapid drop.

Bubsy 3 sold well to, at first, but I think that may have been an effect by AvP.

3Do had quite good support because of the CD storage costing less.

Still, it was mainly a Xbox-style console with heavy PC/western support and mostly nothing from Japan. Problem, that was a time where japan was way bigger than now.

Most games were reviewed in PC-centric magazine and heavily criticized as "not-console-games' in console oriented mags in Europe for example.

Problem also is beyond te early push of western devs, only Crystal Dynamics and 3DO were producing games, when the news about Sony started to appear.

Japan was not needed. The 3do sold millions despite it's mistakes. The best selling Genesis games over all in the U.S. were not japanese games and sold 3x the millions.

Japan was not as big as people think they were back then. Pretty much most relevant consoles for the U.S. and majority Europe to a lesser extend, outside Nintendo consoles (outside the possibility of the U.S. N64) all had a majority western best selling games.

Also the 3DO has a 400 game library, I am pretty sure it has plenty of people producing games. Also Sony was a Question Mark until late 1996. People were more excited for the Ultra 64, which was getting less hype because it kept getting delayed.

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

The reality is that Rayman wasn't big until the amazing 2, so having the original first meant little. It's not like, say, Tomb Raider on Sega Saturn. Was very brief sure and probably didn't change a thing, but it was a big game at least.

I think Rayman sold more than PS1/Jag/N64/PC Rayman combined, and it wasn't until adding the PS2/DC*/GBC versions were added added before it outsold it. Then of course the other re-releases of Rayman 2 selling more than the re-releases of Rayman 1.

*(yes I know the DC version came out before he PS version)

No other Rayman comes close to these two. Then again the lack of re-releases for Rayman 3 and Rayman M/Arena is a little odd.

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

3DO is interesting because it is sort of an early PS1/Saturn (but without the stand out games of the two despite EA good support).
.

The 3DO had way more than EA support

Here are 85 3DO games to look at not by EA

• 1. Alone in the Dark
  2. Alone in the Dark 2
  3. Armageddon
  4. Ballz 3D directors Cut
  5. Battle Chess
  6. Battle pinball
  7. Battle Sport
  8. Blazerion
  9. Blade Force
  10. Burning Soldier
  11. Bust-A Move
  12. Cannon Fodder
  13. Captain Quazar
  14. Casper
  15. Cowboy Casino
  16. Crash N' Burn
  17. Crime Patrol
  18. Cyberia
  19. D
  20. Deathkeep
  21. Demolition Man 3DO
  22. Doctor Hauzer
  23. Dragon Lore
  24. Dragon's Lair
  25. Drug Wars
  26. Escape from Monster Manor
  27. Eye of Typhoon
  28. Flashback
  29. Foes of Ali
  30. Gridders
  31. The Horde
  32. Icebreaker
  33. Icebreaker 2
  34. Immercenary
  35. The Incredible Machine
  36. John Madden Football
  37. Johnny Bazokatone
  38. Jurassic Park 3DO
  39. Killing Time
  40. Kingdom: The far reaches
  41. Lemmings
  42. Lost Eden
  43. The Lost Files of Sherlock Homes
  44. Lucinne's Quest
  45. Mazer
  46. Megarace
  47. Myst
  48. Night Trap
  49. Nobunagas Ambition
  50. Novastorm
  51. Off-world Interceptor
  52. Out of this World
  53. Panzer General
  54. Pebble Beach Golf Links
  55. Perfect General
  56. Phoenix 3
  57. PO'ed
  58. Primal Rage
  59. Pyramid Intruder
  60. Quarantine
  61. Quarterback Attack
  62. Return Fire
  63. Return Fire: Map O' Death
  64. ShockWave
  65. ShockWave: Operation Jumpgate
  66. Shockwave 2
  67. Slam N' Jam 95
  68. Slayer
  69. Soccer Kid
  70. Space Hulk: Vengenace
  71. Star Control II
  72. Starfighter
  73. Starblade
  74. Steller 7
  75. Super Street Fighter II Turbo
  76. Super Wing Commander
  77. Syndicate
  78. Theme Park
  79. Total Eclipse
  80. Trip'd
  81. Twisted: The game show
  82. VR Stalker 2.0
  83. Wicked 18
  84. Wing Commander 3
  85. Wolfenstein 3D

 

[soxinthebox]

As promised here's some random Gamepro reviews from when it was still relevant. No idea what issue it was since the cover and top end of the spine fell off years ago.

Has anyone ever played that Highlander game? I remember thinking it looked awful even back then.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

I still have that issue of GamePro (January 1996) and Highlander was abysmal even for back then. A 1.0 funfactor was almost unheard of.

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

I still have that issue of GamePro (January 1996) and Highlander was abysmal even for back then. A 1.0 funfactor was almost unheard of.

I remember some PC reviewers giving it a passable review.

 

[dark10x]

I can't help but reiterate again that the 3DO's terrible terrible video output quality is good enough reason for it to have failed.

As promised here's some random Gamepro reviews from when it was still relevant. No idea what issue it was since the cover and top end of the spine fell off years ago.

Has anyone ever played that Highlander game? I remember thinking it looked awful even back then.

Heh, and that review doesn't even mention that the Jag version of Pitfall runs at half the frame-rate. Disappointing.

 

[s_mirage]

The 3DO had way more than EA support

Here are 85 3DO games to look at not by EA

Umm, at least 10 of those were published by EA.

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

Umm, at least 10 of those were published by EA.

Published/=/Created

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

I can't help but reiterate again that the 3DO's terrible terrible video output quality is good enough reason for it to have failed.

.

I don't think it was that bad. Wasn't good though. You got decent looking games in 3D and nice looking games in 2D by devs that knew what they were doing.

 

[dark10x]

I don't think it was that bad. Wasn't good though. You got decent looking games in 3D and nice looking games in 2D by devs that knew what they were doing.

No, you did not. EVERYTHING on the system was scaled to 480i (interlaced) using a very poor algorithm that distorts the pixels.

3DO games were all 320x240 but you couldn't actually achieve a native 240p output like other consoles of the time. So the clarity you could achieve on other platforms is 100% impossible on 3DO.

It's also limited to s-video though the RGB mod doesn't really help much due to the aforementioned scaling. It's super evident when you see games like Street Fighter II where the crisp pixel art is destroyed by the system's output.

It was an inherent flaw in the system design.

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

No, you did not. EVERYTHING on the system was scaled to 480i (interlaced) using a very poor algorithm that distorts the pixels.

3DO games were all 320x240 but you couldn't actually achieve a native 240p output like other consoles of the time. So the clarity you could achieve on other platforms is 100% impossible on 3DO.

It's also limited to s-video though the RGB mod doesn't really help much due to the aforementioned scaling. It's super evident when you see games like Street Fighter II where the crisp pixel art is destroyed by the system's output.

It was an inherent flaw in the system design.

I didn't say that you could change 480i I said you could get games to avoid looking too bad with it if you knew what you were doing. Especially 2D games.

I never said 480i wasnt a problem but not all games looked like shit. Some looked decent. Of course that number is reduced significantly with 3D games. Where most of them have quite a few issues because of 480i.

 

[dark10x]

I didn't say that you could change 480i I said you could get games to avoid looking too bad with it if you knew what you were doing. Especially 2D games.

I never said 480i wasnt a problem but not all games looked like shit. Some looked decent. Of course that number is reduced significantly with 3D games. Where most of them have quite a few issues because of 480i.

I'll be honest, I haven't seen one single example of good image quality on 3DO. Every single game is ruined by the scaling algorithm.

Do you have any examples of games with good image quality?

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

I'll be honest, I haven't seen one single example of good image quality on 3DO. Every single game is ruined by the scaling algorithm.

Do you have any examples of games with good image quality?

I didn't say good, I see not shit.

SS is an example of a 2D game, Killingtime is an example of an FMVish game, and PO'ed and Starblade for 3D games. They look nice to decent without the 480i hurting the image to bad.

 

[SmokedMeat]

The 3DO had way more than EA support

Here are 85 3DO games to look at not by EA

• 1. Alone in the Dark
  2. Alone in the Dark 2
  3. Armageddon
  4. Ballz 3D directors Cut
  5. Battle Chess
  6. Battle pinball
  7. Battle Sport
  8. Blazerion
  9. Blade Force
  10. Burning Soldier
  11. Bust-A Move
  12. Cannon Fodder
  13. Captain Quazar
  14. Casper
  15. Cowboy Casino
  16. Crash N' Burn
  17. Crime Patrol
  18. Cyberia
  19. D
  20. Deathkeep
  21. Demolition Man 3DO
  22. Doctor Hauzer
  23. Dragon Lore
  24. Dragon's Lair
  25. Drug Wars
  26. Escape from Monster Manor
  27. Eye of Typhoon
  28. Flashback
  29. Foes of Ali
  30. Gridders
  31. The Horde
  32. Icebreaker
  33. Icebreaker 2
  34. Immercenary
  35. The Incredible Machine
  36. John Madden Football
  37. Johnny Bazokatone
  38. Jurassic Park 3DO
  39. Killing Time
  40. Kingdom: The far reaches
  41. Lemmings
  42. Lost Eden
  43. The Lost Files of Sherlock Homes
  44. Lucinne's Quest
  45. Mazer
  46. Megarace
  47. Myst
  48. Night Trap
  49. Nobunagas Ambition
  50. Novastorm
  51. Off-world Interceptor
  52. Out of this World
  53. Panzer General
  54. Pebble Beach Golf Links
  55. Perfect General
  56. Phoenix 3
  57. PO'ed
  58. Primal Rage
  59. Pyramid Intruder
  60. Quarantine
  61. Quarterback Attack
  62. Return Fire
  63. Return Fire: Map O' Death
  64. ShockWave
  65. ShockWave: Operation Jumpgate
  66. Shockwave 2
  67. Slam N' Jam 95
  68. Slayer
  69. Soccer Kid
  70. Space Hulk: Vengenace
  71. Star Control II
  72. Starfighter
  73. Starblade
  74. Steller 7
  75. Super Street Fighter II Turbo
  76. Super Wing Commander
  77. Syndicate
  78. Theme Park
  79. Total Eclipse
  80. Trip'd
  81. Twisted: The game show
  82. VR Stalker 2.0
  83. Wicked 18
  84. Wing Commander 3
  85. Wolfenstein 3D

So much junk on that list. You're also listing EA games, which makes me question how much you really know, and how much you're repeating some 3DO fan site.

 

[s_mirage]

Published/=/Created

When the publisher is providing the funding to get the games made, that distinction is moot. Are you claiming that Madden isn't an EA game?

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

So much junk on that list. You're also listing EA games, which makes me question how much you really know, and how much you're repeating some 3DO fan site.

Uh what junk is on that list?

Also EA published and made by EA aren't the same thing.

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

When the publisher is providing the funding to get the games made, that distinction is moot. Are you claiming that Madden isn't an EA game?

Madden is an EA first party game.

That is different than a game published by EA made by another company which likely had zero EA involvement funding the game.

Example Star Control II, which was also published by guys NOT EA.

 

[deriks]

You gotta be kidding me

 

[dark10x]

Uh what junk is on that list?

Also EA published and made by EA aren't the same thing.

Heh, I haven't played all of those games and there are some decent titles on there, but these games? Man, absolute piles of trash.

Burning Soldier - Cursor shooter overlayed on top of CGI - boring

Captain Quazar - Terrible play mechanics, lousy performance, bad level design, ugly visual design, etc. It's not a good game.

Cowboy Casino - Really?

Crime Patrol - Another FMV based game that isn't particularly good

Demolition Man 3DO - The cursor shooting segments are garbage (with horrible cursor acceleration), the fighting is broken, and...I can't even recall what the third portion was.

Drug Wars - More FMV

Johnny Bazokatone - A terrible platformer with ugly visuals BUT at least the other versions run smoothly. The 3DO version has a very poor frame-rate.

Jurassic Park 3DO - A collection of very poorly made mini-games

Night Trap - This is a bad FMV game. Very bad. This was one of the best versions of the awful game, at least.

Quarterback Attack - Dude, it's an FMV based football game. There's nothing here. It's useless. Why would you include this on a list?

 

[s_mirage]

Madden is an EA first party game.

That is different than a game published by EA made by another company which likely had zero EA involvement funding the game.

Example Star Control II, which was also published by guys NOT EA.

SC II, sure, but your list includes Foes of Ali, Space Hulk, Madden, two Shockwave games and an expansion, Syndicate, Theme Park, and two Wing Commander games. All EA published, and likely funded, games. Of the EA games I see listed, only Escape for Monster Manor may have been published but not funded by them.

The 3DO's the console I have the fondest memories of, but jeez, if you're going to praise it, at least make sure what you're saying is accurate.

 

[Version 3.0]

Has anyone ever played that Highlander game? I remember thinking it looked awful even back then.

Yeah, I have it. It's an Alone in the Dark / Resident Evil type game with the random weird camera angles. Everything moves very slowly, as if the whole world were under water or something. It can be hard to tell what's going on, and even harder to guess what to do or where to go. It's not much fun, not even as a "look how bad this game is" sort of thing.

Fun fact: did you know the Atari Jaguar CD released after the Saturn and Playstation were already out in North America? Talk about DOA.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Fun fact: did you know the Atari Jaguar CD released after the Saturn and Playstation were already out in North America? Talk about DOA.

I bought one used, complete at EB for half price and it had been out less than two weeks. Never saw used hardware drop so fast in price.

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

SC II, sure, but your list includes Foes of Ali, Space Hulk, Madden, two Shockwave games and an expansion, Syndicate, Theme Park, and two Wing Commander games. All EA published, and likely funded, games. Of the EA games I see listed, only Escape for Monster Manor may have been published but not funded by them.

The 3DO's the console I have the fondest memories of, but jeez, if you're going to praise it, at least make sure what you're saying is accurate.

I forgot to remove Madden.

The rest of the games were developed by EA or by an EA first party if not mistaken. With the exception of Shock wave, I got that mixed up with another game.

Sydicate for example was published but had nothing to do with EA otherwise.

Also you're acting like the EA games it does have are bad. Those deserve praise as well.

There are over 400 games in the library, and that list I gave above gave some good to amazing games.

 

[Glowsquid]

Uh what junk is on that list?

you listed fucking Ballz 3D

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

Heh, I haven't played all of those games and there are some decent titles on there, but these games? Man, absolute piles of trash.

Captain Quazar - Terrible play mechanics, lousy performance, bad level design, ugly visual design, etc. It's not a good game.

Demolition Man 3DO - The cursor shooting segments are garbage (with horrible cursor acceleration), the fighting is broken, and...I can't even recall what the third portion was.

Johnny Bazokatone - A terrible platformer with ugly visuals BUT at least the other versions run smoothly. The 3DO version has a very poor frame-rate.

So I removed the ones you barely remember or you have a subjective opinion ont hat other reviewers have as well and only selected these.

Captain Quazar is a fun title imo. It's not too varied, and it's a bit odd to control, but it's a decent game.

Demolition Man 3DO is a mixed game, I see why some like it and see why some don't. But I don't think any part of the game is particularly broken, just oddly executed, but you can get used to it.

Johnny runs fine on Panasonic imo.

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

you listed fucking Ballz 3D

A fun short fun burt of the best running version (I recall) of the game.

It's a mixed review game, mainly for the console versions before the 3DO.

 

[wazoo]

3DO did not sell millions and has less than 400 games published.

I had one by the way .. And I agree, the output was very blurry.

There are a few good games, some have been ported in better shape to the other consoles like the Crystal Dynamics games. There are a few picks for gaming history like the Sherlock Holmes games, which is the best version over PC, or Super Wing commander, which is better than the PC version (that was a few years old). Star Control 2 was also great. EA output was competent but limited by the console power.

Here is a list of possible "good games"

http://retro-sanctuary.com/TOP 40 3do GAMES.html

The 3DO was stuck between two generations, also stuck between computers (3DO was made by former amiga hardware gurus) and consoles, and it shows.

A few games, like Return Fire and Need for speed made a splash too, and early games like Total Eclipse had great reviews.

Fifa was the first 3D soccer game, Road Rash was a multimedia 3D orgy, everybody was talking about it in the forums.

3DO is a console where western devs discovered 3D like Crash'n Burn made by Mark Cerny. It even had Way of Warrior made by Naughty Dog or Disruptor made by Insomniac (this one shifted to ps1 due to 3DO death).


3DO at E3 93 and 94 was quite present, the Jag was a joke.

But, as a retro gamer, it is better than the jag, but not worth much.

 

[dark10x]

Heh, I haven't played all of those games and there are some decent titles on there, but these games? Man, absolute piles of trash.

Captain Quazar - Terrible play mechanics, lousy performance, bad level design, ugly visual design, etc. It's not a good game.

Demolition Man 3DO - The cursor shooting segments are garbage (with horrible cursor acceleration), the fighting is broken, and...I can't even recall what the third portion was.

Johnny Bazokatone - A terrible platformer with ugly visuals BUT at least the other versions run smoothly. The 3DO version has a very poor frame-rate.

So I removed the ones you barely remember or you have a subjective opinion ont hat other reviewers have as well and only selected these.

Captain Quazar is a fun title imo. It's not too varied, and it's a bit odd to control, but it's a decent game.

Demolition Man 3DO is a mixed game, I see why some like it and see why some don't. But I don't think any part of the game is particularly broken, just oddly executed, but you can get used to it.

Johnny runs fine on Panasonic

Johnny does not run fine. It jumps between 60 and 30fps (or worse) constantly. That's awful for a 2D platformer.

The only platformer I've played on 3DO that delivers a steady 60fps is Soccer Kid.

 

[wazoo]

The only platformer I've played on 3DO that delivers a steady 60fps is Soccer Kid.

An Amiga game.

 

[MrCunningham]

3DO at E3 93 and 94 was quite present, the Jag was a joke.

Nobody was present at E3 '93 and '94, the first E3 happened in 1995. In 1995 Both Atari and 3DO were there and Atari was showing off their VR headsets to the public. You might be thinking of CES though. Winter and Summer CES were a lot more prominent for the game industry before E3 took over that role.

 

[TVC 15]

Used to see Jags all the time at car boots (UK equivalent to garage sales, except out the back of your car at market halls) in the late 90's early 2000's. I picked up my Mega-CD, Master System and 32X at theese for about £20 quid a pop, each with some games.

For what its worth I never bothered picking one up, they looked cheap as hell, like some off brand VCR you would buy from Decobains or whatever crap local TV store you had in your home town.

The Jaguar has been consigned to the bin of history for good reason, the library is pathetic, and as soon as the PSX and Saturn came along the Jag looked archaic. No amount of AtariAge evangalism will change that.

I sometimes get nostalgic over the state of european and uk dev houses and how they all folded or merged in the late 90's due to increased operating costs, but some of the nostalgia is ill founded. Amiga underground haxxors where never going to save Atari and Fight for Life and Chequered Flag were never going to compete with beomoths like Virtua Fighter or Ridge Racer from respected Japanese developers.

 

[wazoo]

Nobody was present at E3 '93 and '94, the first E3 happened in 1995. In 1995 Both Atari and 3DO were there and Atari was showing off their VR headsets to the public. You might be thinking of CES though. Winter and Summer CES were a lot more prominent for the game industry before E3 took over that role.

Yes, CES maybe. I forgot CES had a summer edition.

3DO made its infamous M2 demo at E3 1995, and its last games were on show.

 

[Mufausa The 3rd]

Don't give me the revised fictitious history. I was around for it, and know how things went down.

Battle Chess? Putt Putt? Are you serious?

Crash and Burn reviewed poorly.
So did Total Eclipse
So did Mad Dog Mcree
So did everything. Unless you want a kid's
game, which what kid had a $700 3DO?

Shared games with PlayStation and Saturn?
You mean the games ported to those systems so the developer could try and make money? Because barely anyone was including 3DO in the multiplayer titles. The system was far too weak for PlayStation/Saturn level games. It pushed somewhere around 20,000 polygons per second, which was nothing.

You must be that guy I ran into a long while back that claimed the system had 500,000 games.

Lmao. The only thing good about the 3DO were some of the interesting Konami arcade games that never got home ports at all. (Evil Night, Battle Tryst and more).

 

[SmokedMeat]

Uh what junk is on that list?

Also EA published and made by EA aren't the same thing.

I'd be happy to oblige you if I weren't on mobile. I don't feel like retyping the bulk of your list.

But if those are your ideas of games "worth looking at", then there isn't a single bad game on Saturn and PlayStation.

"Japan was not needed. The 3do sold millions despite it's mistakes."

By the time Saturn and PlayStation were launching 3DO was at 700,000 units. How it reached "millions", I'd like to hear. Unless Oprah Winfrey gave them all out during an episode to her viewers.

 

[djtiesto]

Jurassic Park for the 3DO is horrible, but scores some points in the 'so bad it's good' factor. I do think the 3DO has quite a bit more to offer than the Jaguar, due to the Japanese development and some oldskool PC style sim/puzzle games being released for it (even if the latter isn't particularly my thing).

 

[Pancake Mix]

Nope, first one was was big (about 4 million units sold in total).
Probably sold better than 2.

Source, I can't find anything on that? That's a lot if true, and I have no reason to doubt you given the Nintendo shipments thread and your connections. I'll admit I was wrong, but....

Come on, the bolded is really unlikely, and hopefully not the case given how amazing The Great Escape is. Unless I see proof I think I'm justified in thinking that's not the case. Please don't be true

 

[RomanticHeroX]

This thread is like the console wars equivalent of encountering a Japanese soldier who hid out in the jungle decades after the war, not knowing the fighting is over.

 

[Beer Monkey]

There were actually 3DO and Jag flame wars like this back on the internet in like 1994. On USENET. Look it up.

Tempest 2000 and AvP and stuff like Power Drive Rally had lots of soul that I find lacking from the samey stuff on the 3DO. Checkered Flag was best on the Lynx for sure, though!

I finally sold my Jag last week. Got $250 for it and four boxed games.

 

[RomanticHeroX]

There were actually 3DO and Jag flame wars like this back on the internet in like 1994. On USENET. Look it up.

Haha, I delved into the Atari section of usenet a couple years ago to see what it looked like during the Jaguar years! It was such a beautiful mix of sadness, denial and anger.

 

[Version 3.0]

There were actually 3DO and Jag flame wars like this back on the internet in like 1994. On USENET. Look it up.

Old console wars never die. Even ones about which also-ran was the bigger failure. This is a thread about the Jaguar, but what do I see? 3DO list wars. Go figure.

 

[wazoo]

There were actually 3DO and Jag flame wars like this back on the internet in like 1994. On USENET. Look it up.

It was fun because no one had a clue of actual sales of the consoles, especially the Jag.

The sales of the 3DO were not quite good, around 1.5M at the end with almost 500k in Japan (very much Xbox level ..), but the sales of the Jag were really abyssimal and fanboys were arguing in the newsgroups for nothing.

 

[Beer Monkey]

but the sales of the Jag were really abyssimal and fanboys were arguing in the newsgroups for nothing.

Actually lots of the arguments were about power/performance, not sales.

It doesn't necessarily make them less pointless.

The Jag launched at $250. I got mine for $175 with an extra controller and Tempest rather quickly, and even WAY back then I figured it was toast in the marketplace. But I really wanted to play a Minter Tempest game. Given I was spending up to $500 per arcade cab I was collecting (at the time), I still don't resent paying $175 for Tempest 2000. Everything after that was gravy.

 

[Shion]

Japan was not needed. The 3do sold millions despite it's mistakes

I don't know what happened in your parallel universe but, in this one, the 3DO bombed hard.

Japan was not as big as people think they were back then.

Saying this over and over again isn't going to make it true.

During its early years, PS1 was carried almost exclusively by Namco games like Tekken, Ridge Racer and Ace Combat, as well as other Japanese games like Toshinden. When PS1 exploded in 1997, it was in big part thanks to juggernauts like Final Fantasy VII, Gran Turismo, Tekken 3, Metal Gear Solid and Resident Evil.

 

[a.wd]

I have a soft spot in my heart for controllers that make me feel like a hacking ninja, so I will always have a little love for the jaguar

 

[Celine]

Source, I can't find anything on that? That's a lot if true, and I have no reason to doubt you given the Nintendo shipments thread and your connections. I'll admit I was wrong, but....

Source for Rayman 1 (author confirmed me he asked to the respective companies for LTD):
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130268/a_detailed_crossexamination_of_.php?print=1

Rayman 2 is just a guess on my part (based on NPD).

 

[Celine]

Japan was not needed. The 3do sold millions despite it's mistakes. The best selling Genesis games over all in the U.S. were not japanese games and sold 3x the millions.

Japan was not as big as people think they were back then. Pretty much most relevant consoles for the U.S. and majority Europe to a lesser extend, outside Nintendo consoles (outside the possibility of the U.S. N64) all had a majority western best selling games.

Japanese publishers had far greater influence in US back then than nowadays.
Quoting me from before:

Donkey Kong Country and Killer Instinct were published by a japanese publisher (Nintendo).
Publishers are who decide what system get support for.

In 1994 (only considering games who sold more than 10K for NES, SNES, GEN, SCD, 32X) the japanese publishers accounted for about 13.3 million games sold in US.
The rest of the publishers for 17.4 million units.

In today landscape japanese publishers accounting 43.3% of the software units sold in US would be unthinkable.

Note: I attributed Aladdin for Genesis to Virgin although Sega would have been the correct choice.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201213572&postcount=127

As for 3DO selling millions, I don't think you know what you are talking about.
Between Panasonic, Goldstar and Sanyo 3DO would have been lucky to hit 2 millions.
Panasonic (and Sanyo) shipment data is known cause they provided Famitsu with them (note that Panasonic was the manufacturer who sold most units between the three).

[B]3DO (Panasonic REAL & Sanyo TRY)[/B]

     9403   9503   9603   9703
JP   0.04   0.47   0.72   0.77                    
In   0.06   0.30   0.60                                   
WW   0.10   0.77   1.32  

[B]3DO REAL[/B]

     9403   9503   9603   9703
JP   0.04   0.45   0.70   0.75                                                                      
In   0.06   0.30   0.60      
WW   0.10   0.75   1.30

[B]3DO TRY[/B]

     9503
JP   0.02

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981407

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

3DO did not sell millions and has less than 400 games published.

Yes it did and it has more than 400 games published.

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

Japanese publishers had far greater influence in US back then than nowadays.
Quoting me from before:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201213572&postcount=127

As for 3DO selling millions, I don't think you know what you are talking about.
Between Panasonic, Goldstar and Sanyo 3DO would have been lucky to hit 2 millions.
Panasonic (and Sanyo) shipment data is known cause they provided Famitsu with them (note that Panasonic was the manufacturer who sold most units between the three).

[B]3DO (Panasonic REAL & Sanyo TRY)[/B]

     9403   9503   9603   9703
JP   0.04   0.47   0.72   0.77                    
In   0.06   0.30   0.60                                   
WW   0.10   0.77   1.32  

[B]3DO REAL[/B]

     9403   9503   9603   9703
JP   0.04   0.45   0.70   0.75                                                                      
In   0.06   0.30   0.60      
WW   0.10   0.75   1.30

[B]3DO TRY[/B]

     9503
JP   0.02

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981407

You can't backtrack on japanese made games to games published by japanese companies that's not how it works.

Also you do realize 2 million is millions right?

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

I don't know what happened in your parallel universe but, in this one, the 3DO bombed hard.



Saying this over and over again isn't going to make it true.

During its early years, PS1 was carried almost exclusively by Namco games like Tekken, Ridge Racer and Ace Combat, as well as other Japanese games like Toshinden. When PS1 exploded in 1997, it was in big part thanks to juggernauts like Final Fantasy VII, Gran Turismo, Tekken 3, Metal Gear Solid and Resident Evil.

2 million is millions it's not a paralleled universe. That's impressive given all it's mistakes and the fact it was trying to be a pure game consoles the first couple years.

Also that's nice you think games like Ace combat and such were very big (they weren't that bg) but what I said was that in Europe and NA, the best selling games outside Nintendo consoles, usually had a bigger pool of western games.

Crash, Spyro, Tony Hawk, Tombraider, Frogger, Rayman, Oddworld, Croc, Driver, Spider-man, Syphon Filter, Twisted Metal, MOH, NFS, Disney, Jet Moto, GTA, etc.

Also Metal Gear, Tekken 3, GT did not release in 1997.

But point is, uh just as many best selling games. It seems clear imo at least for the west, japanese games influence on sales the PSX's popularity is hyperbolic, granted they did have a large effect just nowhere close as many keep implying.

I mean WW it's more even, but that's because there's a whole country where a lot of the western games didn't sell too well in. Japan. If you look at western sales of games alone it's crustal clear.