OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
Don't laugh - that one Frogger remake sold more copies on PS1 than all the Ridge Racers combined
Best selling remake that generation.
In fact may be top 5 best selling remakes on consoles of all time.
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I think the Atari Jaguar could easily be a success
- Thread starter nkarafo
- Start date
Best selling remake that generation.
In fact may be top 5 best selling remakes on consoles of all time.
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
OK that doesn't change what I said at all being fact. This is irrelevant.
Also the Dreamcast was snot trying to be multimedia video CD machine that also played games, was not $599-$699 at launch, and still costing $300-$400 almost a year later. ALso it wasn't a statup company.
A very odd comparison.
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
Well there is that new Coleco thing that is coming out soon that will take carts of new games if I recall.
There's a thread on it, here it is:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1159076&page=1
Assuming that picture is what it will likely be built as, it basically a jaguar as well. This thread always goes back to Jaguar.
Chittagong
Gold Member
You have to be trolling at this point, but I'll play along.
Click that link you posted. The first thing on the page is a link to the excel sheet listing how those 400 "games". You will notice that there are many entries of games twice, with the second entry saying (demo). They even list demos with different colour covers as separate entries - see bottom of the long list I posted earlier as an example.
That's on top of the multitude of magazine cover discs, promo discs, system utilities discs and other non-games.
So, if you want to count magazine cover discs, demos of games, demos with different covers and utility discs as "games", then yeah, 3DO had 400 "games".
Did you even click that excel sheet before doing your 400 games claim?
On that point you are right. The 3DO was trying to be some kind of educational/Game unit.
That is why, many (MANY) titles on your list are not games, but FMV/Educational/Adult CD titles.
I know very well the 3DO, I was there, you are way wrong.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
The Coleco Chameleon? LOL you gotta be trolling us.
But I was talking about a real current gen startup, not a "new" retro style console. Something that would compete with the Big 3.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Oh man, I haven't been trolled this good in a while. He managed to stay on the edge of believability with his silly arguments, but this kinda gives it away.
Was a fun ride!
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
The excel spreadsheet has barely any repeated games.
Demos are also games. They cound on every games lsit for other consoles.
Even if we remove the Demos, and interactive media that just hit the line of "game/notgame" there's still around 300-350 titles on the system,
No matter how you slice it
It's a diverse library of games that has sold around 2 million units, what other failed systems have had such a privilege? Only two? DC and Sat?
No idea why you are trying to downplay the library so hard.
Take away all the demo/sample/multimedia/unreleased game and it's not even 300.
I hope he is trolling
DC has more than 400 games
and shipped in total 9.13 million units
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
Actually not it wasn't there isn't that much edutainment on the 3DO, but you didn't look at any of the links so of course you don't know that.
It was trying to be a media device, it had plans to be a media machine but the only thing that seemed to have released is the add-on that let's 3DO play video CDs.
MrCunningham
Member
His opinion on the 68K may have been wrong, but he still might be right about that last paragraph. If Atari ditched the 68k for his hardware suggestions, it may have been a much more formidable piece of hardware.
The comments on the 68K being a "2D" processor are pretty funny, it is a general purpose CPU that is capable of a lot of things. It was used as a sound controller in the Sega Saturn, and even in quite a few of Sega's arcade boards. Maybe it's not the most optimal for doing 3D tasks, but it still is quite capable of producing 3D.
Really.
And that's me being generous and counting lots of titles as legitimate games that I probably shouldn't have counted. Thats about 180 demos, videos, and adult entertainment titles. Remove them from the list of 416 and, no, you don't have "around 300-350" games.
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
Take away all the demo/sample/multimedia/unreleased game and it's not even 300.
I hope he is trolling
There are no unreleased games on the spreadsheet. Unless you mean those like 2-3 prototypes.
Demos are games, this forum is filled with hypocrites that won't use this logic with other systems.
Still around 350 games.
Even if we removed demos, it would still be around 300.
No matter how you slice it mobygames or whatever else anyone sues is wrong, nitpicks and all.
His argument about the cache is spot on, but the m68k itself is not the reason why the Jaguar is hamstrung. The m68k is arguably the reason the jaguar got as much support as it even did. The problem with the Jaguar is the bus, not the CPU. Using a hyper common CPU as a general DSP is actually a great idea, a practice many other game machines used as well.
Chittagong
Gold Member
I am not trying to downplay the library, I don't care if 3DO had 900 games, good for them and the players.
What I am trying to do is to demonstrate that you continue to post made up crap as facts, like the 400 library claim that you have now dialed back to 300-350 games. Furthermore, you back your arguments with links you haven't even properly read yourself, and then keep asking others to click your links to see the "proof" for your claims (which they won't).
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
You just didn't count an expansion to a game as a game which is uh... Weird since that expansion is a game.
A few of those are games as well but I just guess you put all that said multimedia on the list and assumed they were not games. (also there are some games you accidentally ut on you must have been on a rush.)
Also for some reason demos aren't games. But either way the nitpicks won't work. Try again.
Also still more games thant what everyone else said it had based on wiki moby or whatever.
This now seems like a desperation drive to cut up the 3DO list for some reason. Using nitpicks that still won't work and making mistakes without checking what each of the titles actually are. Also apparently demos don't count on game lists (for the 3DO specifically)
Even with that we still get around 300 games or more so it's just silly at this point.
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
For games that don't push 3D and a bunch of 2D ports that sometimes looked like the 16-bit versions.
Literally all the sources I showed and most on your favorite search engine blames the 68k but you time to literally just stop talking.
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
No it's not dialed back. Because demos are games, that's your desperate nitpick that you likely would not count against other systems. It demonstrates you are pathetic and desperate and have to cheat to make a point come across. I'm done with you.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
There's lots of ways of looking at that however. To many core gamers and even a lot of casual ones, Frogger doesn't mean anything. Those sales were probably mostly to do w/ nostalgia.
In terms of being a draw towards the platform it didn't have the effect those other games did, and it doesn't have the quality to draw people back in like those games do.
It's still arguable if those other games you mention were more instrumental to PS1 sales than some of the "usual suspects" in Japan b/c that's assuming too much, and sales numbers don't tell the whole story.
For example I remember having my parents pick me up a PS1 back in 1998 but it wasn't for the likes of Frogger; I wanted it for Crash, Parappa, RE2 etc. Now I may've noticed something like Frogger and thought "oh that's cool", but it was just icing on the cake. W/o those other games Frogger being there wouldn't drive me at all to pick up the console, but it was a neat little cherry in addition to all the stuff that would.
And I imagine it was the same for a lot of people purchasing the console at that time.
That thing is deader than the Jaguar amigo.
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
Snow Job is a game
Again the guy literally can't stand the 3Do game lsit for some reason, he placed in multiple games but read the descrip on the spread sheet and assumed all that didin't impky game were not games.
Also apparently on the 3DO demos are not games. But it's ok to add to the massive PSX library.
Oh and Add-ons for a game that contain more games are games. Of course there was only a few of those but that's the kind of dishonest nitpicking I am talking about.
What's funny is we could remove all he wants and there still more 3DO games than most of the other sources talked about in this thread like mobygames.
Chittagong
Gold Member
So you genuinely feel that Starblade and Starblade (demo) need to be counted individually in a platform's unique game count, for example? And that magazine cover discs should also be included, although they only have demos of games that are already once counted on the list? I think you just read the 400 number first and didn't click the excel to see what they actually are.
I note you got to name calling with me too, that didn't take long.
riskVSreward
Member
What the hell is going on in here?
3D0 defense force?
3D0 defense force?
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
It seems in the west more people brought the consoles for western games than japanese ones imo. And while sales don't always tell the full story, I think when the numbers are hit the million, it may be something to investigate.
Another thing about Frogger is that it came out in 1997, and no remake before or after sold close to what it did. Not only that but the game had some issues and a sequel that flopped. (correct me if wrong)
Like you said Crash was one of the games you wanted the console for. A lot of others wanted it for sports, for Tombraider, for Gex 2, For Rayman 1-2, For Twisted Metal, etc.
I think Mobygames is not much into all the educational/Adult-only and Japan only software.
For corectness, this list is quite bigger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_3DO_Interactive_Multiplayer_games
A lot of titles, I would not touch at all, anyway
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun is having a "civil conversation," you idiot scum baby.
This is getting to the "North Korean Press Release" level of discourse now.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Here's a quick summary for those late to the thread
Version 3.0
Member
20+ years after its short life, the poor Jaguar can't even get a thread to itself. Hijacked by an argument about the number of 3DO games. How pitiful.
A little common sense: no, demos shouldn't count as games. Particularly when the game itself is also counted. That's absurd.
Enough about that, geez.
The 68k discussion is much more interesting, and at least it's on topic. I've often assumed that was why so many Jaguar games look just like Genesis games, right down to the color depth. That's true even of games that weren't cross-plats with the Genesis, like Brutal Sports Football and Attack of the Mutant Penguins.
Sounds like it's more nuanced than just developers sticking with the 68k out of laziness or familiarity. I remember the similar issues in regards to the Saturn and the difficulty in getting the most out of its multiple processors. Obviously, with a more high profile, successful system, more developers put in the work to do so than with the poor Jaguar.
A little common sense: no, demos shouldn't count as games. Particularly when the game itself is also counted. That's absurd.
Enough about that, geez.
The 68k discussion is much more interesting, and at least it's on topic. I've often assumed that was why so many Jaguar games look just like Genesis games, right down to the color depth. That's true even of games that weren't cross-plats with the Genesis, like Brutal Sports Football and Attack of the Mutant Penguins.
Sounds like it's more nuanced than just developers sticking with the 68k out of laziness or familiarity. I remember the similar issues in regards to the Saturn and the difficulty in getting the most out of its multiple processors. Obviously, with a more high profile, successful system, more developers put in the work to do so than with the poor Jaguar.
The M68k has nothing to do with the color depth of the games you are citing. Color depth is handled by the VDP of the Sega Genesis, and TOM on the Jaguar.
Brutal Sports Football is an Amiga game originally. Attack of the Mutant Penguins displays way more colors on screen at once than a Genesis game could.
I been reading this thread for a bit now, I am shocked in 2016 we have a 3DO/Jaguar/Lynx defense force. Maybe I shouldn't be though.
All I have to say are those porno games on the 3DO were dank as hell when I was 8. The 3DO was long dead and gone but I had a friend whose dad had one. I think a lot of them were pirated or some shit but I remember having a bunch of us over at one point oogling at breasts. Too damn poor for AOL but man, 3DO. :/
All I have to say are those porno games on the 3DO were dank as hell when I was 8. The 3DO was long dead and gone but I had a friend whose dad had one. I think a lot of them were pirated or some shit but I remember having a bunch of us over at one point oogling at breasts. Too damn poor for AOL but man, 3DO. :/
Version 3.0
Member
Thanks for the info. I didn't know what determines color depth, but an earlier posted link implied the 68k was responsible, at least for ports.
It doesn't look like Attack has more colors to me, but I have no way of counting the colors, I'm just eyeballing it. Any halfway decent SNES game looks nicer. I didn't mean that exclusives have a low color depth specifically, though, just that even many of those still look like Genesis games - none of the Jag's power is on display.
Love the game, though. I like to think I'm the only one who's ever beaten it.
The m68k was a hyper common processor, so if you wrote a game for, say, the Amiga or Sega Genesis, you could use the m68k in the Jaguar as the main CPU and have your game running with minimal work. The Jaguar's TOM CPU/GPU could display way more colors than the VDP of the Genesis or the ECS/OCS or AGA chipsets of the amiga, but that doesn't necessarily mean sprites will be more colorful - you are still limited to whatever colors you selected for the sprite in the first place.
What that link is saying is that lots of developers (particularly amiga devs) ported their games to the Jaguar wholesale without doing any extra work to take advantage of the additional hardware in the jaguar. They did so because the M68k inside made porting easy. But that doesn't mean the M68k restricts color depth or anything like that.
Give an example of a game using the m68k as the primary CPU on the jaguar that looks loads better than a genesis game - NBA Jam TE.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
3DO demo disc
3DO demo disc
3DO demo disc
3DO demo disc
3DO sampler disc
3DO sampler disc
3DO sampler disc
3DO sampler disc
3DO magazine disc
3DO magazine disc
3DO magazine disc
3DO magazine disc
3DO magazine demo disc
3DO magazine demo disc sampler
3DO magazine demo disc sampler demo
Woody Woodpecker cartoons
Woody Woodpecker cartoons
Woody Woodpecker cartoons
3DO Woody Woodpecker sampler demo
Your list has more filler then a Mrs Pauls Crab Cake factory. Maybe read your own lists before boasting about the number of "games" available?
And your "two million equals millions" comment was fantastic! There's bullshitters, but you take it to the next level. Like a fine craftsman.
Version 3.0
Member
Yeah, so does Primal Rage. No idea whether it's using the m68k as the primary, but it looks way better than the Genesis and SNES ports. But a lot of games, ports or otherwise, don't. Take something like Super Burnout, Val D'Isere, or even a nice looking game like Flashback. Those look like they'd run and look just about the same on a Genesis or SNES.
The Jag arrived just at the right time for me to jump on board. I had disposable income for the first time in my life, and dove into video games with little regard for price (and thank goodness, because cartridge games at that time were expensive!).
But even at the time, I could see that the Jaguar didn't make a good case for purchase over the SNES and Genesis. AVP and Doom and a few other 3D games made it clear it was more powerful, but most of its library didn't give that impression.
I loved it, though. In the end it just helped fill in the year and a half wait for the big systems to arrive, but it was a fun time.
Super Burnout is actually an example of a game that neither the Genesis nor SNES could do at all, because it fills the screen with scaling sprites. It behaves like a Super Scalar arcade game - the SNES could only scale one background layer and, while the Genesis could scale a few sprites in software, it couldn't do what Super Burnout was doing.
Flashback is actually an Amiga title. The Amiga version was the original, all ports are derived from the Amiga version.
Val D'Isere is just honestly an ugly game lol.
It was released on PC and Saturn too. Probably better on the Saturn (higher framerate).
In fact there is no good version. Windows for example is higher resolution but has some glitches, etc
petran79
Banned
Unlike the Amiga CD32 that targeted mainly Europe, Atari Jaguar targeted mainly the USA.
While in Europe you could see a lot of games released and coexisting both on the Amiga computer and the CD32, usually with CD audio and better graphics, there was nothing similar in Jaguar.
Unlike Commodore, at that time Atari had also abandoned the AtariST computer branch (Atari Falcon) in favour of the Jaguar.
This was a missed opportunity to enrich the Jaguar's library with unique and quality western games. They staked everything in the US market, while Commodore wisely targeted Europe with the CD32.
Instead of AtariST that had games meant for the new era, in the US Atari usually meant their older consoles and their arcade game library
While in Europe you could see a lot of games released and coexisting both on the Amiga computer and the CD32, usually with CD audio and better graphics, there was nothing similar in Jaguar.
Unlike Commodore, at that time Atari had also abandoned the AtariST computer branch (Atari Falcon) in favour of the Jaguar.
This was a missed opportunity to enrich the Jaguar's library with unique and quality western games. They staked everything in the US market, while Commodore wisely targeted Europe with the CD32.
Instead of AtariST that had games meant for the new era, in the US Atari usually meant their older consoles and their arcade game library
CD32 was born and dead within 6 months. I do not think Commodore should be taken as some good standard reference for good practices for in 93-94.
What is true, is that until 93, Commodore and Amiga stayed relevant in Europe because the market was not global at all and consoles were not very much supported in Europe (Sega was an outlier, NEC and Nintendo were barely present there). As soon as Sony launched everywhere with the same marketing force, all old actors from the 80s went dead.
IMO.
I remember differently. Nintendo was every bit as much present as Sega, perhaps aside from the UK I'd dare to say Nintendo was more present than Sega in the eye of the public. Consoles (at least those from Sega and Nintendo) were far from obscure. And I'd argue Sony or no Sony, the age of home computers was over by the mid 90s pretty much by its own doing.
soxinthebox
Member
Remember when this thread was about the Jaguar? Sucks buying a Jag these days is so bloody expensive since it would be fun for curiousity's sake to pick one up.
Edit: was reading the previous page when I replied. Looks like things are back on track now 👌
Edit: was reading the previous page when I replied. Looks like things are back on track now 👌
SNES sold 8.6M units outside Japan/US. You are right, that is not zero but SNES in the US sold 23.3M in comparison.
In fact, SEGA sold even less in Europe. I was thinking it was the opposite
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
You remind of Crash and Burn. Only you just keep crashing and burning.
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
Yep guess we should remove all the demos from the PS2 library hat's been in the past counted on this site before for it's numbers.
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
What is millions?
Over 1 million by at least 1 more million by definition.
ALso really,t hat takes off like a few games that's still 350 and demos are games. but hey if this was a PSX thread you would be arguing the opposite.
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
You did it first so eh ok I guess you like taking the baby route.
BTW, your tune would be different if "PSX" was on the title, you wouldn't be nitpicking the games then with made up rules.
It's missing like double the games even without the demos and adult games.
I found the thread, http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1044988
Sadly it seems Zhuge removed the list, but you can see comments like "Crash outsold FFVII", which I think likely applies to europe as well. In the west Nintendo consoles, out of relevant consoles, are the only ones that have had the japanese dominate software in the west.
Chittagong
Gold Member
This discussion has never been about PlayStation, it has been about 3DO, or actually Jaguar, and the main point many posters have tried to make is you posting stuff you don't understand anything about, and then being corrected by more knowledgeable members - or members who even bothered to click the links you provided.
When you have ran out of arguments, you have called people babies, 3 year olds, scum, pathetic, desperate, cheaters, among other things, which I would say are in violation of the TOS of NeoGAF. It's not my place to enforce the rules, but I do hope a mod stumbles upon this thread and sees the collection of your posts I had above, it's pretty shocking for a grown up forum like NeoGAF.