• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

IGN says stuff about PS4/MS sales. Also, Kinect is added value. Real money, yo.

Status
Not open for further replies.

BigDug13

Member
"Must have game" is such a stupid fucking argument anyway. There are ZERO games from last gen that I absolutely had to buy a specific console for. Did I enjoy games that came out for my console of choice which was 360 last gen? No doubt. But I didn't buy the fucking thing for one specific game.

The only game this gen that has been "must Have" enough for me to buy a console for was Super Mario 3D World. I got a Wii-U for $200 so I bit. After finishing the game I sold the Wii-U for $200.
 

Mononoke

Banned
The hardcore, even journalists, are focusing so much on "must haves" in the sense of epic exclusive games - the math for PS4 seems pretty damned simple. It's a freakin' hundred bucks cheaper, and it has the next-gen editions of all the games the masses want. In other words, it has games.

So does the Xbox One, but the perception caused by the bundling of Kinect ("Microsoft is ripping you off by forcing an expensive accessory on you") and the reality of the price appears to be a killer combo.

People were just TIRED of the old generation. It went on too long, and they wanted to jump into the next gen platforms. So yeah, most people that bought in early, were buying for the platform and not really the games.
 

Jomjom

Banned
I'm surprised the ps4 isn't selling well in japan.

In Japan it really is an issue of lack of must-have games (tailored to Japanese tastes). Ryu ga Gotoku and maybe Dynasty Warriors, being the only two. Add to that Japan doesn't support any home console much anymore.
 

Dug

Banned
These people think the X1 will be successful because the PS4 is successful? This has no logic. This is not journalism but paid PR.
I don't get why Colin Moriarty, Senior Editor of IGN Playstation, would be writing paid PR for the Xbox One.
 

Curufinwe

Member
I can. The original Halo 2 multiplayer is one of the most revered experiences in console gaming. The servers for Xbox are dead, rendering the online component on console useless. If they can bring back that multiplayer, with all the original glitches, gameplay, and everything else *nailed*, you can bet a lot that Halo 2 will sell systems.

Big if, but one that a lot of people on GAF seem to agree on.

People also agreed on GAF that Titanfall would sell systems. Some even claimed it would cause the Xbone to outsell the PS4 2:1 in March.
 

Salex_

Member
There aren't any "must have games". There's games that are top of the line within it's genre. It's up to the person to decide if they like the genre to determine if the game is worth it.

For example, Bayonetta and MLB The Show are widely regarded as top of the line games in their genres. Both of them aren't anywhere near "must have" sales wise. So do we ignore them?
 

RdN

Member
I do agree with them that the PS4 selection of exclusives is lacking in comparison with the XBone.

The only titles that have seem significant amount of playtime on my PS4 are Infamous and Resogun. Killzone is way too weak to list as a must have, Knack is a joke, the same as Warframe.

Fortunately MLB The Show 14 is coming soon to help tip that scale.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
I can't give you an exact definition, of course, but it is probably a combination of a few things: an exclusive, AAA, critically lauded title that helps raise the profile of the entire system. I mean you wouldn't have trouble looking back at the PS3 and recommending must-have titles and if you did that independently of other posters, I'm sure final lists would look similar. With the PS4, for the moment, everything is a bit default.

While I don't think it has an absolutely stellar lineup, it's far from some game-less console.

PS4's lineup is a half year old and it's already got lots of retail and indie games. Must haves or not, games are not a problem on PS4.
 
The implication that Microsoft will somehow do better in Japan = ???. At least, that's how I take it when they're bringing it up that Microsoft has a chance in Japan because the PS4 isn't sold out there. The statement that Kinect is added value almost feels like a written advert.

You misunderstood both parts.

Neither did the article imply that the Xbox is going to do better in japan, nor did it imply that Kinect is added value.
Microsoft proposed Kinect as added value, whether thats the case or not is up the consumer and the article takes a stance on what the market "said":
Needless to say, the market has spoken, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a Kinect-less Xbox One in the coming months.

So obviously the article doesn't say that Kinect is added value for everyone.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I can't even imagine the state someone would be in that would have a Halo 2 remake get them to purchase a console...
Halo fans are desperate for the series to return to its roots, and for many people, Halo 2 is exactly what we mean when we say that. It's multiplayer is widely regarded as the best in the series. It's return is a huge deal for Halo fans, but also fans of competitive arena FPSs in general.
 

Mononoke

Banned
Dat m$ money speaks volumes eh ign?

Colin is a BIG fan of Sony. He's often accused of being in Sony's pockets, and being a Sony apologist. I'm not always a fan of the guy, but he can be level headed when it comes to commentary and pieces. Outside of the line highlighted by OP, I don't really see how this is a pro-MS piece or whatever. More like, an overall observation piece of the current state of sales of these consoles, and where he thinks its going etc.
 

Springy

Member
Forza 5, Dead Rising 3, Peggle 2, Garden Warfare, Titanfall.

All pretty good to excellent reasons to buy the XBone.

Combined, or individually? "Bought an XBO to get my Peggle on" does not sound like a real thing.

Both XBO and PS4 lack the line-ups, but I'm sure that'll change soon.
 

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
People also agreed on GAF that Titanfall would sell systems. Some even claimed it would cause the Xbone to outsell the PS4 2:1 in March.
A prime example that forum hype and hardcore gamer reasoning does not reflect the greater reality.


People here have the unsettling tendency to ignore everything but exclusive games. Sorry man, but people are excited about the multiplatform games nowadays. Things like Assassin's creed, gta, call of duty, battlefield are the games that people think about, not infamous, not Forza. Even Titanfall is not exclusive, it just isn't on the ps4, but evidence seems to suggest that game has more hype than any real lasting appeal.
 
Withong must-own games, somehow the ps4 is limping by with game people WANT to own :). I think it's the indie focus honestly. If there isn't a major title that month, you get a great indie game on PSN, sometimes for free. Just keep good content constant and it's gold.
 
As a PS4 owner, I would absolutely agree with that. In fact, it's a bit generous.

As a PS4 owner, I disagree with you.

See how easy that was?

Opinions, man. How do they work?

Seriously though, the idea of any type of news outlet reporting on what constitutes a "must have" and what doesn't is a bit silly. The consumers dictate those terms. The attach rates inform those terms. Armchair analysts at a lot of these sites reporting on the industry though? Not quite.
 

Nydius

Member
Project Spark, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, and the much-rumored Halo 2 Anniversary could easily even the playing field.

Project Spark: Niche title that is banking on appealing to the Minecraft crowd.

Sunset Overdrive: No clue what the hell Insomniac is trying to make here except it looks one part Bulletstorm, one part DeadRising (only with mutants instead of zombies), and one part pseudo-MMO with drop in, drop out Azure, always online gameplay. Oh, and it will have to compete with Destiny in the same general genre and same release window. Good luck!

Quantum Break: Still waiting to find out more about the game but saying it will be a system seller would be like saying Heavy Rain back in the day was going to be a PS3 system seller. I can't say either with a straight face.

Halo 2 Anniversary: The only one in this list that has broad appeal but it all depends on how well they port it. The multiplayer is key. They have a very narrow sweet spot to hit and, frankly, I don't have enough faith in 343i to deliver. There's going to be a lot of nostalgia rage when/if the game comes out and it's lacking various multiplayer elements - which, imo, it inherently will as they try to rebalance it for a modern audience (despite recent claims that they understand they have to "nail multiplayer"). Also, asking people to plunk down $400+ on a console just so they can play a 10 year old port will be a tough sell.

I notice they left out Forza Horizon 2 from the list which is probably one of the better chances Microsoft has this year.
 

BreakyBoy

o_O @_@ O_o
Microsoft, meanwhile, bet on Kinect and the added value -- both in experience and real money -- it would add to Xbox One.
That Kinect - added REAL LIFE MONEY!

I'll admit to not even clicking the link because I don't generally care to read this sort of thing, but you're not really helping your argument when you misread a statement like that.

In mentioning "real money" in that statement, the writer is stating that the inclusion of the Kinect increased the actual price of the console. Not that the Kinect prints money.

And to be fair, I've owned both consoles since launch, and I've barely touched either of them. A big part of that is just me being crazy busy lately, but another big part is just there not being anything that I feel like I absolutely must play right now. Infamous and Killer Instinct were the two closest things to that, and I haven't even bothered to buy Infamous yet.
 

BigDug13

Member
Wouldn't the PC be a better option for that kinda thing?

This is a rhetorical question, it is in fact a better option for that kinda thing.

No it's not. Not everyone wants to be hunched over a keyboard and mouse to play FPS games, and on PC you need to be hunched over a mouse and keyboard to be competitive. Also, many people don't want to fuck with settings. I spend more time in my menus and using third party frame limiter apps on my 7970m laptop than I do actually playing the games. And I still experience unexplained framerate dips. Do I need more drivers? Do I need to slick my windows 7 load? Do I need to buy Windows 8 to take advantage of new DirectX features?

To simply say "multiplats are better on PC therefore PS4 being better for multiplats is moot" is FALSE. First of all, check out any PC performance thread for any new release and see page after page of frustration over their game not performing properly either due to their lack of spending money on beefier hardware or simply unoptimized code.
 

viveks86

Member
Must-have games involve puppies. Cute adorable puppies.

The NDS entertainment system with all versions of Nintendogs is the greatest system to grace this planet. Subjectivity 0, Cute Puppies 1

Haha!

It's an otherwise good article. But this idea that journalists and gamers have of "must-have titles" is ridiculous. Insinuating that my favorite hobby is just an endless string of reckless purchase decisions is insulting.
 

SFenton

Member
People also agreed on GAF that Titanfall would sell systems. Some even claimed it would cause the Xbone to outsell the PS4 2:1 in March.

This is true, but those were more outlandish. I'm not saying that Halo 2 will sell millions of consoles, but a good Halo 2 would definitely push systems- in my opinion, perhaps even more than TLoU Remastered will push (nostalgia for Halo 2 is much higher).

As long as your expectations are reasonable, Halo 2 could definitely be a system seller. It won't be a "massive" system seller (Gears 1/2/3, Halo 3/Reach, God of War III, etc.), but it will do more than just "push units" (which is not bad, but it's more of what I expect TLoU will do- it will sell well and cause people to buy units, but its impact will overall likely be minimal.)

Not sure if I explained myself well enough, but that's what I'm thinking.
 
IGN is missing a bit of a point.

People actually dont buy systems for exclusives. They buy them for the games their friends play... some of which happened to be exclusive in the past like Halo or Wii Sports.

Right now people are playing COD and battlefield and random indie games and right now all those games are significantly better on PS4 or in the case of indie games the PS4 simply has a lot more. PS4 has been getting new downloadable games almost weekly where as I think I can count the post launch XBL games on my toes.
 

Deadstar

Member
Note that the athor was Colin Moriarty

Part of their Playstation team, and the guy who wrote the "Vita is Set to Succeed" article
I highly doubt its the Microsoft money train

Nice selective quoting OP

Fair enough, I didn't know this. When I read articles online I'd like to see fair articles that discuss both sides of an issue.
 

Cidd

Member
So are people really going to start with the "PS4 has no games" bullshit again?

I remember when the PS2 and PS3 had no "GAMES" look how that turned out.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
tumblr_mzgjmp7Fl31spy7ono1_500.gif


IGN being IGN. Nothing new. Same shit every day.

but Greggy is great
 
Is this a joke post? Honestly can't tell, Colin is a Playstation content editor at IGN.

Did you even read the article?

I'm aware of this, but the article is seriously unbalanced in its arguments. It gives too much praise to the XB1, but none to the PS4. Is that fair in your opinion?
 

Steroyd

Member
Are they just making this up or something? It was never announced that they were bundling the PSCamera (even though it sold like crazy by itself). Is it just IGN being IGN?

There is a merit to it that the first promotional pictures of the PS4 had the camera with it and later ones had it missing, so you can see how people would connect those dots, although I would not lay it down like a fact because it's reaching.
 
I can. The original Halo 2 multiplayer is one of the most revered experiences in console gaming.

I never played it, but curious. Could that be nostalgia talking? For many it may have been the first online gaming experience they had on a console so it might resonate more, but surely there have been better multiplayer experiences in the last decade.
 

LoveCake

Member
What makes IGN think that the follow-up console by MS is going to do any better than it's predecessor, when it is going to be more expensive & have a lower user-base of the previous console ?

The macro-economic problems are pretty acute & as there are not that many PS4 games about let along PS4 only games what reason do people have to buy a PS4, when they can just buy the same game with not as flashy graphics for their PS3's ?

Where is the mention of Nintendo where the WiiU is selling tiny amounts, isn't Japan not the area where Nintendo is the dominant force even ahead of Sony/PlayStation ?

As for MS releasing a X1 without Kinect, why do people keep saying this ?? MS will NEVER sell a X1 without Kinect it is a integral component of the X1 system, it is just the same reason Nintendo will NEVER sell a WiiU without the GamePad.
 
IGN is missing a bit of a point.

People actually dont buy systems for exclusives. They buy them for the games their friends play... some of which happened to be exclusive in the past like Halo or Wii Sports.

Right now people are playing COD and battlefield and random indie games and right now all those games are significantly better on PS4.

Not just slightly better like a few lines of resolution like some games from last gen. The gap is bigger then any half assed port from the 360/ps3 generation.

I've bought every Nintendo system since the N64 solely for exclusives.
 

BigDug13

Member
This is true, but those were more outlandish. I'm not saying that Halo 2 will sell millions of consoles, but a good Halo 2 would definitely push systems- in my opinion, perhaps even more than TLoU Remastered will push (nostalgia for Halo 2 is much higher).

As long as your expectations are reasonable, Halo 2 could definitely be a system seller. It won't be a "massive" system seller (Gears 1/2/3, Halo 3/Reach, God of War III, etc.), but it will do more than just "push units" (which is not bad, but it's more of what I expect TLoU will do- it will sell well and cause people to buy units, but its impact will overall likely be minimal.)

Not sure if I explained myself well enough, but that's what I'm thinking.

Individual releases like TLOU isn't meant to sell systems. It's meant to incrementally improve the vast library of games that PS4 is amassing which taken as a whole will be a system seller.

I dare say that for the non-PC gamer, free Planetside 2 with no subscription required will be a bigger selling point. Same with Everquest Next when the time comes.

People don't really mention SOE game support when discussing games but it is a potential game changer.
 

rdrr gnr

Member
While I don't think it has an absolutely stellar lineup, it's far from some game-less console.

PS4's lineup is a half year old and it's already got lots of retail and indie games. Must haves or not, games are not a problem on PS4.
He didn't say game-less. What good is his argument if the type of game goes without qualification. Do we only value the number in isolation? There are a ton games released for mobile and PC platforms every week. Some will be good, most will be unremarkable, and many will be terrible. You immediately how different those games are from what he is implying. It may be a bit early for "must-haves" but his article, in context, makes sense.
 

SFenton

Member
I never played it, but curious. Could that be nostalgia talking? For many it may have been the first online gaming experience they had on a console so it might resonate more, but surely there have been better multiplayer experiences in the last decade.

Well, the reason it's revered *is* nostalgia. But it was also top-notch at release, and still fun today locally.

I didn't have an OG Xbox, so I didn't get to experience it. I had a PS2.
 

Amir0x

Banned
The article is actually pretty OK. For example, I was going to criticize this as I first got to it:

IGN said:
Crazier yet -- and perhaps even confusingly -- is the fact that PlayStation 4 has sold so well with very few must-have games. Infamous: Second Son was the very first post-release PS4 exclusive with real weight and consequence behind it, and while it sold a million copies right off the bat, PlayStation 4, at that point, was already soundly beating its competition. It only took a few months for it to outsell Wii U and put itself comfortably in front of Xbox One, and it did so with Killzone, Resogun, and Knack, not God of War, Uncharted, and Gran Turismo. This illustrates that the winning equation Sony has stumbled upon with PlayStation 4 goes far, far deeper than meets the eye.

Because it's true, a trend of game journalists and many game fans is to focus on some big MEGATON game to them. They understand the value of those products since it's easily definable - you sell a few millions units perhaps, boost systems sales a bit perhaps, and then move to the next showdown title that does the same. What is less easily definable is the fact that systems can make a similarly good case to consumers with a mix of small titles and large, even if there may be overall less "megaton" type products.

In other words, people need to understand that even though an individual indie game may not change the game, when you offer a wide variety of titles big and small, you by definition make yourself a more inclusive system that caters to even the most idiosyncratic of tastes. And THAT becomes the "system seller", the fact that you're selling to distinct tastes because your selection of games is catering to many individuals with different tastes instead of one group with a very specific taste that just happens to big a single type of game in droves. These individual games may not sell a million units each, but if you have 50,000 units here, 150,000 there, 80,000 here, 30,000 there, it begins to add up. And you begin to win customers who otherwise would not find anything appealing because their tastes are too obscure.

And the reason this strategy is working so well is that it is being done in conjunction with the big titles. And thankfully, as I continued to read the article, IGN basically emphasized this same point, which honestly impressed me a bit since I haven't seen many game journalists accurately reflect this reality:

IGN said:
The final aspect of PlayStation 4's success is perhaps the hardest to grasp, but I think it's potentially salient: Sony understands where console gaming is going, and they understood it way before their competitors. We already covered their greater focus on hardcore gaming, but not the fact that they've infiltrated the indie scene in ways Nintendo and Microsoft could only dream. Big releases may be scarce -- and those big releases are indeed essential to selling a console over the long run -- but PS4 has new games virtually every week to fill in these gaps. And frankly, it's not hard to find an indie game far, far better than a vast majority of what's being released at retail, whether on PS4 or elsewhere. (This is ironic considering that it was Microsoft, not Sony, which first identified the intrinsic value of smaller indie games to a console's viability.)

Other than his idea that 'big releases are scarce' (this weird idea of excluding big releases because they happen to be multiplatform or something), this is mostly right. That's the whole ballgame. Sony is providing a strategy that in conjunction with the best version of all multiplatform games - big hitters like AssCreed, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Destiny, Watch Dogs, etc - they also have an incredibly diverse (relative to the amount of time on the market) and appealing selection of smaller and mid-range titles. They're basically making sure they serve all corners of the market adequately, whereas it's arguable whether Microsoft or Nintendo are matching that.
 

MYeager

Member
x console sells bad: is the industry in trouble?
Y console sells great: but why?

smh

Also can someone explain to me the bit about adding value with real money? I didn't understand it

Unless I'm misunderstanding the sentence it is in, I believe he's saying that they made a bet on the Kinect in terms of experience (the motion control experience) and real world money (the additional price)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom