Support NeoGAF

[LotusHD]

I disagree. I like their designs much more than 9S. And it's not that there are a ton of designs in NieR that are bad (though some are up for debate), it's just 9S just...has a super dumb design.

I don't feel any type of way about it, that said, I do love that his design contrasts magnificently with his... characterization in Route C.

 

[Käebi]

Like I said, I don't see why this game has blown up the way it has, because it looks as generic as any other 3rd person semi jrpg character action game out there.

Could you point me to these other "3rd person semi jrpg character action games"? I am dying for something that feels like Nier Automata.

 

[chrominance]

I'm honestly quite surprised the game reviewed as well as it did, considering some of the glaring flaws it has and how idiosyncratic many of its elements are.

I saw Justin McElroy at a PAX panel once where he explained this phenomenon: reviewers play a lot of games, and what this sometimes leads to is people valuing novel (but not necessarily great) games over highly competent but same-y games.

With Nier Automata specifically, I think there are a few other things that might contribute to this:

1) I'm guessing reviewers pace themselves a lot better than most players, and maybe only take on as many side quests as they feel is necessary to get a sense of what they're like.

2) Nier is known for having side quests that aren't that great mechanically, but more importantly

3) I think Yoko Taro has expressed his distaste for side quests and completionists in the past, and so makes it a personal hobby to torture them. Nier suddenly cutting off half the side quests at a certain point and essentially forcing you to start all the way back at playthrough A to get them is an example; Automata allowing you to buy trophies from a shop in the game is another. Reviewers might be taking that into account and accepting Taro's intent at face value.

 

[Anne]

With the expectations I had coming into this game, Route B was something that I was really interested in once it opened up with the twist to it. It's definitely a bit of a slow down and some chill time after ending A, but I took that time to explore some of the stuff in it and do sidequests.

That being said, I'm pretty sure I came into Automata with way different expectations than most people on GAF, and definitely most people buying a AAA action JRPG. I'm also pretty sure expectations played a pretty big part of why some people thought this worked and others didn't. I definitely wouldn't call it padded and it adds to what the overall experience is at least. I get how some people would think that, but I think some people just wanted a different game than what they got.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It is always strange to me when people call games shit because of the side content. I mean if you hate the gameplay mechanics or story then stop playing. But if your complaint is that the optional side content isn't fun... then just don't do the side content. The main quest is really all that matters so if you like it then just keep playing it. The game is large with lots to do and you are in control. Why someone would choose to play the content they don't like when there is other content they could be playing that they do like is beyond me.

What if the side content is the majority of the game's content, and it's bad? Like in most open-world games full of bloat and padding.

You're right if the game has meaty, quality non-optional content (or quality optional content), then it's easy to just skip the padding and it's not an issue, but a lot of games are pretty much 10% main content and 90% bloat, at which point the "just ignore the side-content!" defense is paper-thin. (Not saying this game is, just speaking generally.)

 

[StrangeRoboMemory]

I've really enjoyed the game, but I'm in the middle (I think, just did

Spoiler

second resource unit

) of route C and...it's become sort of a slog. The luster on the gameplay - which I still think is awesome in many ways - has worn off. It sucks to say that, because I was soooo high on the game up to now. I'll definitely finish, but...yeah. After route A, I thought, "Jesus, this will, no doubt, be one of the GOAT". After continued time with the game, it just feels too repetitive for me. It's gone from a GOAT candidate to just "really good" for me. Maybe I'll feel differently when I finally finish it.

 

[Catvoca]

It is always strange to me when people call games shit because of the side content. I mean if you hate the gameplay mechanics or story then stop playing. But if your complaint is that the optional side content isn't fun... then just don't do the side content. The main quest is really all that matters so if you like it then just keep playing it. The game is large with lots to do and you are in control. Why someone would choose to play the content they don't like when there is other content they could be playing that they do like is beyond me.

With Nier:A specifically it's annoying since a lot of the game's best storytelling is tied up in repetitive, dull side quests.

 

[Aters]

Drop it. When does NeoGAF ever rekindle one's interest in a certain game? I lost interest in The Witcher 3 two hours in, and all the praise on GAF did not change my mind. It's OK if you don't enjoy a game, whatever game that is.

 

[LotusHD]

Drop it. When does NeoGAF ever rekindle one's interest in a certain game? I lost interest in The Witcher 3 two hours in, and all the praise on GAF did not change my mind. It's OK if you don't enjoy a game, whatever game that is.

He can do what he wants, but if he's gonna make a thread to vent, then naturally people are going to give their thoughts as to what comes after Route B. It's not really the same as getting tired of something like W3, barring the universal rule of not enjoying the gameplay.

 

[Danjin44]

Drop it. When does NeoGAF ever rekindle one's interest in a certain game? I lost interest in The Witcher 3 two hours in, and all the praise on GAF did not change my mind. It's OK if you don't enjoy a game, whatever game that is.

Thats how felt about Horizon but I'm kind if stubborn. I alway need to finish the game once I started. I honestly though the side quest in Horizon much of chore than NieR Automata ever was.

 

[Timeaisis]

Drop it. When does NeoGAF ever rekindle one's interest in a certain game? I lost interest in The Witcher 3 two hours in, and all the praise on GAF did not change my mind. It's OK if you don't enjoy a game, whatever game that is.

I count one time for me, and it was Dark Souls. It was mostly advice getting through it. I already loved a good chunk of the game, I just struggled with the (sometimes very frustrating) challenges.

This case seems more like an elemental hatred of repetition and boredom. We can't solve that by making OP play better or differently, they still have to play the bits they don't like.

 

[Conciliator]

It's so odd that a big portion of hate for this game is based off of semantics. If Taro would have just called them chapters no one would have blinked an eye.

I played it like I would an RPG, which means I explored the dry world and did lots of the mediocre side quests. If I would have known I was supposed to not do side stuff so I could rush through the first two playthroughs/chapters/stories/characters to get to the apparently genius part I may have concluded it's not really for me. But I'm still glad I played of it what I did, actually.

It does have cool music.

 

[Jisgsaw]

3) I think Yoko Taro has expressed his distaste for side quests and completionists in the past, and so makes it a personal hobby to torture them. Nier suddenly cutting off half the side quests at a certain point and essentially forcing you to start all the way back at playthrough A to get them is an example; Automata allowing you to buy trophies from a shop in the game is another. Reviewers might be taking that into account and accepting Taro's intent at face value.

That was so great lol, I couldn't believe it when I bought one to test, and it actually unlocked the achievement.

 

[KodaRuss]

Route B is by far the weakest part of the game. Once the hacking novelty wears off it turns into a slog.

 

[kewlmyc]

I wasn't fond of Route B at first either. But the entire point is to set up the events of Route C. I would say power through Route B and move on to Route C. Playing Route C will make you see why the game reviewed so well and stuck with a lot of people.

Or don't, because honestly, it sounds like you made up your mind.

 

[JaseMath]

I didn't care for N:A even though I really wanted to like it. I thought the combat was cool, but everything about the art direction was so bland, bland, bland. The environments didn't inspire any kind of awe or leave me wanting to explore.

 

[TrueDefault]

I too did not enjoy Route B. I tried to take it easy for half the playthrough and decided I did not care enough about the hacking mini games or what the characters thought.

Spoiler

Although playing with 9S makes me think about how irrelevant 2B was to the plot. 9S pretty much leads every conversation and 2B acts like his accessory.

I recommend OP to switch to Easy and add auto hacking mod. Got me through it quickly.

 

[Ivellios]

I wanted to complete all sidequests in Chapter A before finishing it, but then out of nowhere i just advance the mainplot a little to level up and suddenly i am in chapter B. After losing all these sidequests without warning i just stopped playing.

I know i can complete them later, but this just burned me out of the game, maybe i will try to finish it someday.

 

[Draft]

Yep nier is cool but it wears out it's welcome relatively fast.

 

[Nose Master]

Route b is trash. Just rush through it. C is better.

 

[gogosox82]

You really don't have to do any of the side quests. Just skip them

 

[The Hermit]

I am on the fence regarding Nier.

On one hand the story is amazing and the music is godlike.

On the other hand the battle is very primitive .I expected a hell lot more than since this is from Platinum, and I am impressed that BotW gets a lot of flak about it's combat, yet Nier is much worse ( but it give xp, so yay I guess).

After I got to route B I decided to rush, but after I finished, I noticed I missed some quests that would enrich the world building and even learn about some main story stuff.

So yeah, I wish Nier had a bit more to offer regarding gameplay, it gets very repetitive.

 

[Mifec]

I am on the fence regarding Nier.

On one hand the story is amazing and the music is godlike.

On the other hand the battle is very primitive .I expected a hell lot more than since this is from Platinum, and I am impressed that BotW gets a lot of flak about it's combat, yet Nier is much worse ( but it give xp, so yay I guess).

After I got to route B I decided to rush, but after I finished, I noticed I missed some quests that would enrich the world building and even learn about some main story stuff.

So yeah, I wish Nier had a bit more to offer regarding gameplay, it gets very repetitive.

BOTW has infinitely worse combat than Nier though and very bad combat balance too. Joseph Anderson ripped it to shreds in his video on BOTW with examples of everything.

 

[The Strokes]

I honestly don't understand the appeal of this game at all. Replaying it 26 times to get different endings sounds like torture with a game that mediocre. I'm convinced the only real reason people play it is because they like anime girls, because that seems like the only appeal that game has.

You can literally unlock an ending on the first minutes of the game.

 

[Kazuhira]

Rush it,turn auto-skills on and let the game do the hacking for you.
Yeah,that's what i said..go full casual and enjoy the story during your first playthough.

 

[emag]

I've really enjoyed the game, but I'm in the middle (I think, just did

Spoiler

second resource unit

) of route C and...it's become sort of a slog. The luster on the gameplay - which I still think is awesome in many ways - has worn off. It sucks to say that, because I was soooo high on the game up to now. I'll definitely finish, but...yeah. After route A, I thought, "Jesus, this will, no doubt, be one of the GOAT". After continued time with the game, it just feels too repetitive for me. It's gone from a GOAT candidate to just "really good" for me. Maybe I'll feel differently when I finally finish it.

You're like two hours away from completing the entire game (including D and E).

 

[Paches]

I had a near identical experience. Was doing a lot of side stuff near the end of the first playthrough, eventually stopped because it was mundane and finished it and got to B. Hacking got old and was having a hard time justifying slogging through it again and just uninstalled and moved on.

 

[RyudBoy]

Hacking is trash but like a lot have already mentioned, what comes after Route B is really worth it. Sorry to all who disagree, but 9S just isn't fun to play.

 

[tsundoku]

Hacking is literally the best thing in the entire game and is the most well constructed and well balanced microgame in like the last 5 years of games.

If you're not just doing main story quests to unlock more sidequests you should really drop the game. The main plot isn't going to really have any satisfying twists or conclusions if you're looking for a typical plot structure.

 

[Izuna]

It's not very important but it fleshes out the story and sometimes alludes you to what will happen in the future. I platinumed the game in 55 hours. That's guideless until the final 5 hours.

I thought 27 hours was 100% so I could skip the side stuff.

I'll play this... Next year, maybe.

 

[RubberLuffy]

 

[Danjin44]

/Thread

 

[LotusHD]

People have weird playtimes with this game, it doesn't take that long to Platinum the game. ;D

I forgot to post this lol

 

[swarley64]

I also wonder if the tone of the narrative just wasn't for me. I think my issue with the game, at least in the main story, is that it touches upon dozens of themes that are interesting in themselves, but it rarely really goes into many of them beyond the surface level. It was hard to provoke my thoughts when it felt like the game was throwing so much at me and not really giving each of them enough to land. I just found by the end of it I wasn't nearly as "whoa mind blown" as a lot of other people were. The above point about things being very "backloaded" is very true too. It was kind of a downer that the game holds a lot back at the beginning, then suddenly explodes with stuff going at you from everywhere, and then once that finally gets going, it was basically over. I dunno. I still enjoyed my time with the game but I felt it had a lot really holding it back from me truly falling in love with it as much as other people did.

Great post, and the bolded is one of the major problems I had with the narrative. In particular,

Spoiler

when they reveal that 2B was really 2E, and was assigned to execute 9S over and over

, I thought "Wow, that's a crazy plot twist, I wonder how that's going to affect the character development... oh the credits are rolling, never mind". Its a great concept, but the game didn't expand on it and I was just too exhausted after playing for 30 hours to really care.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

That was one of my issues is that I felt the game haphazardly throws around its thematic elements without ever truly elaborating or forming them into some meaningful statement

 

[Dreams-Visions]

it's worth, OP.

hang in there.

 

[tsundoku]

I thought 27 hours was 100% so I could skip the side stuff.

I'll play this... Next year, maybe.

there is a very quick way to get the platinum even if you just blast through only mandatory content and beat the game in like 12-20 hours

if you're just playing the game for the fucking trophies though literally do me a favor and don't play it

bad human beings like you dont deserve good games go play a fucking licensed piece of trash that gives you a platinum in 35 minutes

 

[tsundoku]

Great post, and the bolded is one of the major problems I had with the narrative. In particular,

Spoiler

when they reveal that 2B was really 2E, and was assigned to execute 9S over and over

, I thought "Wow, that's a crazy plot twist, I wonder how that's going to affect the character development... oh the credits are rolling, never mind". Its a great concept, but the game didn't expand on it and I was just too exhausted after playing for 30 hours to really care.

That was one of my issues is that I felt the game haphazardly throws around its thematic elements without ever truly elaborating or forming them into some meaningful statement

it's 100% in the sidestories

 

[LotusHD]

Great post, and the bolded is one of the major problems I had with the narrative. In particular,

Spoiler

when they reveal that 2B was really 2E, and was assigned to execute 9S over and over

, I thought "Wow, that's a crazy plot twist, I wonder how that's going to affect the character development... oh the credits are rolling, never mind". Its a great concept, but the game didn't expand on it and I was just too exhausted after playing for 30 hours to really care.

The point is more that you're supposed to look back and see how that recontexualizes things.

That was one of my issues is that this game haphazardly throws around its thematic elements without ever truly elaborating or forming them into some meaningful statement

Uhh, definitely disagree there.

 

[Zebetite]

Great post, and the bolded is one of the major problems I had with the narrative. In particular,

Spoiler

when they reveal that 2B was really 2E, and was assigned to execute 9S over and over

, I thought "Wow, that's a crazy plot twist, I wonder how that's going to affect the character development... oh the credits are rolling, never mind". Its a great concept, but the game didn't expand on it and I was just too exhausted after playing for 30 hours to really care.

the idea is that it recontextualizes all of the character development that has happened up to that point, not that it's the catalyst for new character development

Spoiler

one free example: here's a fun thing to consider-- who actually calls 9s "nines?" 2b definitely does, a few times, but do you remember any NPC over the course of the entire game calling him nines? do you remember him remarking how he doesn't usually get partners and usually works alone? do you get the impression 9s has any friends? why do you think 9s thinks people call him "nines"?

Spoiler

also note: as a2 points out, even 9s knew 2b's true identity & purpose

 

[Mailbox]

That was one of my issues is that I felt the game haphazardly throws around its thematic elements without ever truly elaborating or forming them into some meaningful statement

i don't think i can understand how anyone could reach this conclusion.
Literally everything in this game serves the themes. Its never haphazard and often tells of greater things than one might think (aspects of gender, gender roles, "playing a part", etc being ones that go over people's heads often)

Its almost always elaborating or forming into "meaningful statements" as the game goes on.

Just.... what?

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

Great post, and the bolded is one of the major problems I had with the narrative. In particular,

Spoiler

when they reveal that 2B was really 2E, and was assigned to execute 9S over and over

, I thought "Wow, that's a crazy plot twist, I wonder how that's going to affect the character development... oh the credits are rolling, never mind". Its a great concept, but the game didn't expand on it and I was just too exhausted after playing for 30 hours to really care.

That detail was fantastic because it

Spoiler

reframes quite a lot about the partnership between 2B/E and 9S, why she hesitated to be friendly towards him at the outset of the story, and unveils a hidden complexity about their situation that wasn't previously known. The game doesn't have to do anything else because it already told you what you needed to know.

Not wanting to reflect on it due to burnout is unfortunate, but to say it does nothing to expand on it isn't really giving the game credit.

 

[Izuna]

there is a very quick way to get the platinum even if you just blast through only mandatory content and beat the game in like 12-20 hours

if you're just playing the game for the fucking trophies though literally do me a favor and don't play it

bad human beings like you dont deserve good games go play a fucking licensed piece of trash that gives you a platinum in 35 minutes

No, my issue is that 20 something hours for the main quest etc. makes it too long for me. It feels like the sort of game I'd like to play the side-quests with. Just gunna shelve it for now.

Which leaves Blacklist along on my Backlog, hmm.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

it's 100% in the sidestories

If I missed that then it’s the game’s fault for hiding it’s provocative statements within tedious side quests that people tell me to avoid

i don't think i can understand how anyone could reach this conclusion.
Literally everything in this game serves the themes. Its never haphazard and often tells of greater things than one might think (aspects of gender, gender roles, "playing a part", etc being ones that go over people's heads often)

Its almost always elaborating or forming into "meaningful statements" as the game goes on.

Just.... what?

It’s not that the game doesn’t have these themes, it’s that it never expands upon them passed the level of someone who took a Philosphy class

 

[Izuna]

If I missed that then it’s the game’s fault for hiding it’s provocative statements within tedious side quests that people tell me to avoid

ain't that a fact

 

[PixelatedBookake]

I'm surprised people have issues with Route B. I found the hacking minigames very addicting and made the game go by at twice the speed

 

[Zebetite]

It’s not that the game doesn’t have these themes, it’s that it never expands upon them passed the level of someone who took a Philosphy class

because video games have such a rich and storied history of having themes and expanding upon them past the level of someone who took a philosophy class

 

[RubberLuffy]

If I missed that then it’s the game’s fault for hiding it’s provocative statements within tedious side quests that people tell me to avoid

Only idiots tell you to skip sidequests.

I did 83% (in 36 hours playtime) of them in my first time playing and they were great. Really expanded on how the world is and how it's inhabitants view their place in it.

Stuff like The Wandering Couple, where you find out that the female android

Spoiler

has been mindwiping her male companion to try to "build" a better boyfriend.

Or Machine Examination, where you repair the broken

Spoiler

Engels in the city ruins and it eventually culminates in it deciding suicide is preferable.

Same with the Wise Machines.

Or Amnesia, where an android loses her memories and tasks you with finding out who murdered her friend.

Spoiler

She did it, because she's an E-Type like 2B, and having to kill her friend broke her and she wiped her memories because of it.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

because video games have such a rich and storied history of having themes and expanding upon them past the level of someone who took a philosophy class

And when a game attempts to should I just accept the mediocrity and give it an A for effort? Especially when it draws comparisons to works on the topic?

 

[QisTopTier]

there is a very quick way to get the platinum even if you just blast through only mandatory content and beat the game in like 12-20 hours

if you're just playing the game for the fucking trophies though literally do me a favor and don't play it

bad human beings like you dont deserve good games go play a fucking licensed piece of trash that gives you a platinum in 35 minutes