NipplesAndToes23
Member
I still haven't played XIII yet. Does that make me a bad Final Fantasy fan?
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In celebration of Final Fantasy's 30th anniversary, GAF Plays: Final Fantasy games
- Thread starter Aeana
- Start date
sotojuan
Member
Beat FFX yesterday. Last boss was annoying because I didn't do many sidequests so I was underleveled for him (but not for the random encounters...). Worst of all, FFX likes to have boss fights after long cutscenes or annoying scenes. Got him with Rikku's Mix thouh - Hyper Mighty Guard and then Trio of 9999.
I hate/love FFX. I love the combat and mechanics. Hate the sidecontent and minigames, character design, and the inability to skip cutscenes even its second re-release. I'm glad I played it but I am not going back to it any time soon.
Now on to finish the story mode in FFXII TZA and maybe all hunts. Then I'll go to FFIII on DS!
--
This year is also my year of DQ, so busy with DQIV at the moment.
I hate/love FFX. I love the combat and mechanics. Hate the sidecontent and minigames, character design, and the inability to skip cutscenes even its second re-release. I'm glad I played it but I am not going back to it any time soon.
Now on to finish the story mode in FFXII TZA and maybe all hunts. Then I'll go to FFIII on DS!
--
This year is also my year of DQ, so busy with DQIV at the moment.
YankeeDonB
Member
It's not essential. But, as a super fan, I still feel one owes it to oneself to give it a go, if only to fully grok the PS3/360 era struggles of the series.
Off chance, you actually enjoy it (it's still pretty, that one dog aside, and the music is excellent, and the battle system is pretty great, once it opens up, I think, and Fang's toga is fabulous). More likely, you just have firm ground to join in on the frequent XIII bashing that is almost required of modern FF fans.
I really loved the final dongeon, but other than that... the game is pretty meh !
Not bad, just meh.
Lumpy Onion
Member
It's a really challenging FF. After being somewhat underwhelmed with the difficulty of FF IV in that release I was pleasantly surprised by how many times I really had to stay on my toes even during regular battles. Each character episode has it's own "challenge dungeon" which you can go through to gain unique equipment and items. I found these to be pretty fun to conquer and go back for more.
It feels like a romhack at times though but once you get farther unique monsters start showing up as well as new music, and I hear the final dungeons have a ridiculous amount of bosses from much of the FF series history.
The individual character chapters you have available from the start are mostly just short prologues to the main course which opens up after clearing them all.
Momma was too big to carry around, so he helped her slim down.
As we saw throughout the game, a piece of Jenova was all that was needed.
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
He just needed her cells. A head's more mobile.
I thought it was pretty good. It recycles a bunch of areas from the first game, so a lot of people bitch about that. It has a lot of characters and fun battle system quirks. Frankly, I don't understand how anyone who likes IV could dislike it.
Just be very careful not to save over your previous episode clear data when you start a new episode. The save system defaults to highlight your most recent save, even on a new episode. Like it's actively trying to make you fuck up. I did it twice on my first playthrough and once on my second. Luckily, there are 100% episode completion save files available online to replace the lost file on PSP.
He doesn't know what she is at that point though, he still thinks she's an ancient unless I'm remembering wrong
No, he knew. Spent countless nights reading all of Hojo's research (intentionally left for him to easily find in the Shinra Mansion).
The people of North Corel saw a load of Shinra troops rush through town towards the reactor just as the party is about to do! They're not betting on Shinra's success naturally.
C'mon Shinra, why so light on security? Two guys with guns? We got two guys with guns and one with a spear!
That battle gave other troops time needed to get away in a train, but Goddamn T is a master of all vehicles apparently! Only got 10 minutes until the other train gets away!
Catching up an hopping onto their trains not the hard part, its going through forced battles on each car thats slowing things down!
At least there is a cool fight in here! Ahhhh Shinra bots, how longs it been since we fought one? To long I say! This bots got wings? So does our pal Neo Bahamut!
Its still alive after that? AND two uses of Laser? What a toughie! Alexander finishes it off after what was a lengthy battle! One thats eaten up a good chunk of the time limit!!
Still one more grunt stands in their way and he's such a non-threat that the party decides ta showboat an wait as Death Sentence ticks all the way down to the dudes doom!
Prolly was not the brightest idea in retrospect cause theres no time for Goddamn T ta figure out how to stop the train... ooohh dear.
R.I.P. North Corel.
Their butts were saved by the locals again. Kinda surprised they didn't leave You to get captured at least.
Poor You. His towns been destroyed even further. And Dracula's seeming delight at death and destruction surely isn't helping You's mood any!
Its now that You's ultimate limit break can be acquired. Catastrophe sure is fitting given the circumstances.
One of the shops survived which is good but nothing ta be shouting about. Especially since yeah, the towns been taken back to 0.
They get to buy this kids shiny stone which turns out to be the Ultima materia! Thats good right?!
Back on the airship Goddamn T is bemoaning how tough it is being the leader, while Mr Meows says Shinra's stopped. Stopped what? An why watch out for Heidegger specifically o.o??
Goddamn T is far from being an old man but clearly being a leader is way harder than being a captain! At least the pilots leveled up again?
If the partys gotta go back to This and What empty-handed a second time they may as well finish off another loose end to give the appearance of having accomplished something right!? There was this pagoda in Wutai that Zenny insists on fighting her way up...
Wutai's 5 strongest warriors are here, each a master of something like speed or weapons. The first 2 are jokes. The second 2 are beyond jokes cause Zenny's Added Effect+Time weapon combo Stops 'em.
The final battle comes down to daughter vs father!! Her materia combo may not Stop the guy but it does Slow him, giving her many many more turns ta do stuff in! He's got boss battle music, can heal and is the last enemy in the game which Trine can be learned from. So Zenny better have any enemy skill materia equipped that doesn't have that one learned!
Seems like they've worked out their frustrations towards one another! As rewards Zenny gets her ultimate limit break and the Leviathan summon materia! He also asks her to steal the partys materia once their quest is over >_>;
On the way out Shake gives a hint(?). Unusual materia? Pipe? Monster? Head? Help!
A "good" and "great" Chocobo + carob nut can lead to = a Green or Blue Chocobo being born. Can't we just find cool colored ones in the field? Dun wanna get into animal husbandry here.
Back ta visiting This and What. ...They still haven't moved that big cannon yet? Slowpokes.
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
Yes. He thinks she's an ancient. He also knows he was injected with her cells in utero after researching in the library, and that that has something to do with the monsters he saw in the reactor.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Is VIII the only FF game where you can't find items in people's houses? It feels weird. Every time I play this game I'm tempted to check for hidden items when there are none.
manipulate
Member
I don't think XIII has houses at all off the top of my head
For those sufficiently curious about XI, there's a discount campaign on the way:
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/campaign/discount/
While at it, the game got another monthly update today:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/52969
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/campaign/discount/
While at it, the game got another monthly update today:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/52969
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
X and X-2 don't have any hidden items in houses I don't think. Occasionally there's a treasure chest in a house, but nothing like checking a flower pot and finding a potion. I never really thought about it. I don't instinctively check everything like I do in the 2D FFs in the 3D ones for some reason.
There's a flashback in Lightning's house. There's a short segment in Hope's house, though I don't remember if it's playable at all. You can also go into the ruins of Vanille's house in Oerba if that counts.
There's some of Laguna's articles you can find around, but that's about it
NipplesAndToes23
Member
You were talking about the Timber Maniac issues? I don't really count those. They don't even go to inventory. The only time I got items anywhere is the D-District Prison. I was just doing that segment last night and I realized I never got that Battle Meter upgrade.because I don't like Triple Triad. Tried to get it last night, but kept on losing. What does it do?
A question regarding the Tonberry AP farming thing in FFX.
so I went and did it and yes I went up like 60 Sphere levels in a single fight..
but I can see that I will very quickly run out of the spheres needed to power up the nodes,
is there a way to get those spheres without having to fight random boring enemies?
so I went and did it and yes I went up like 60 Sphere levels in a single fight..
but I can see that I will very quickly run out of the spheres needed to power up the nodes,
is there a way to get those spheres without having to fight random boring enemies?
Does he know that? Gasts notes on Jenova and Hojo's monster project are seperate things. As we know Hojo likes keeping info to himself I always thought it unlikely he left anything regarding Sephiroths original just lying around in the mansion. When ya confront Hojo at the end of Disc 2 he speaks as though Sephiroth doesn't know he's his dad. Also the people in the know regarding that experiment (Hojo, Lucrecia, Dracu... Vincent!) are all still alive so gaining their knowledge through the Lifestream prolly wouldn't be a thing.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Yeah, Combat King 001 is in there on the 1st floor. It contains Dolphin Blow.
No but there's abilities that force enemies to drop certain types of spheres
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
Maybe he doesn't know the details, but he definitely knows a bit. He saw the monsters in the reactor that were labeled as Jenova experiments. That prompted him to research since he thought Jenova was his mother. That same research library he was searching is also where at least a few SOLDIER candidates were infused with Mako and Jenova cells. It's highly likely there was data relating to Jenova cell experimentation there.
Going through FFXII the Zodiac Age. I tried playing the OG game when it came out and afterwards like 4 times, but never got past retrieving the
part. Now I just left
. Trying to get every hunt and esper without using a guide. Some of them are really tough on my nerves. Even with (presumably) good gambits, there's still a bit of micromanaging. It's also really funny to get caught off guard when something pops up, like randoming meeting the wind Esper
. Seeing the different hidden areas in places I've intimately known since basically my childhood such as the Waterways and the Eastern sands is a real trip too.
The Zodiac Job System is something I knew about ever since the International version came out, but I never got to try it until now. I'm surprised at how much depth it gives the game. I'm regularly rotating characters, calculating who deserves which equipment at the moment based on my limited Gil, and trying to use each ability to their fullest extent so that everyone can contribute while they're in the active party.
The Fastforwarding is super convenient too. 2X all the way, 4X too crazy except when I wanna haul ass and dont wanna use Teleport Stones.
If I get my hands on a SNES Classic, It'll be a good excuse to play FFVI for the first time. It's one of the only ones I haven't gotten to.
Sword of Kings
Archades and am now chasing Cid
in the Caverns
The Zodiac Job System is something I knew about ever since the International version came out, but I never got to try it until now. I'm surprised at how much depth it gives the game. I'm regularly rotating characters, calculating who deserves which equipment at the moment based on my limited Gil, and trying to use each ability to their fullest extent so that everyone can contribute while they're in the active party.
Black Mage/Monk Penelo is CRUTCH.
If I get my hands on a SNES Classic, It'll be a good excuse to play FFVI for the first time. It's one of the only ones I haven't gotten to.
FFXIV is on hiatus at the moment, but I'll be back to start up Stormblood soon enough. I just can't focus after blasting through ARR and all of Heavensward in half a month.
Broke out my GBA SP today and started playing Final Fantasy I from the Dawn of Souls cartridge. I've never actually gotten very far in the original, so I'm committing to finally finishing the OG FF on its 30th anniversary. So glad they tweaked the mechanics for the GBA version! I'll probably play FFII as well, and if that goes well, I'll pay a ridiculous price for FFV on the GBA and finally beat that one too. I just can't bring myself to deal with the load times on the PlayStation Anthology version of FFV.
This is gonna sound weird, but I'm playing FFXII TZA and last night I looked up stuff about Tactics Advance since I plan to play it sometime this year as well and... Damn, it's pretty obvious in hindsight, but I had no idea this came out before XII? I always assumed it was XII that introduced the different Ivalice races like the Viera, Bangaa and Moogles, but it was TA all along? It even had Montblanc lmao. I feel so dumb for not knowing.
The fact that such a tonally different game influenced XII so much is crazy to me.
I think pretty much everything about the PS1 port of FFV, especially the translation, is terrible. Meanwhile the GBA version has a great localization with lots of charm, gorgeous battle backgrounds and character portraits for dialogue (I don't like these much but they're well liked, I think). So yeah, it's definitely worth it, not to mention the game is a blast.
The fact that such a tonally different game influenced XII so much is crazy to me.
I think pretty much everything about the PS1 port of FFV, especially the translation, is terrible. Meanwhile the GBA version has a great localization with lots of charm, gorgeous battle backgrounds and character portraits for dialogue (I don't like these much but they're well liked, I think). So yeah, it's definitely worth it, not to mention the game is a blast.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I have about 40 rages left for my last task in FF6 (getting all Gau's rages). 60 hours so far, I suspect it'll be another 10 since Veldt manipulation isn't feasible on the Steam port.
I enjoyed playing FFRK for 6 months but wouldn't go back. In terms of feedback I've heard, only Pictlogica (JPN only?) and Brave Exvius have gotten consistently good feedback.
I enjoyed playing FFRK for 6 months but wouldn't go back. In terms of feedback I've heard, only Pictlogica (JPN only?) and Brave Exvius have gotten consistently good feedback.
So quite polarizing
I'll at least try it, see if it captures my interest. Thanks!
Vbrasa
Member
I think I might take your advice and give Spira a break once I finish platinuming X. I've finished the story ages ago and am just grinding to beat Penance now and to complete the sphere grid for all 7 characters, but the Earth Eater grind for fortune spheres is so painful!
Also need to get around to dodging 200 lightning bolts... That one I am not looking forward to.
I know about the cheese method for it, but it's still gonna be annoying.
In addition to earthquakes it seems the Mideel area is prone to having the Lifestream act up. It caused some trouble there in the past!
The nurse here mentions that What's condition hasn't changed and that This may be working herself sick for his sake. She's certainly still depressed sounding!
Some tremors hit the town causing What to blab out more nonsense or maybe a warning?
Totally a warning! Just as the towns people were on about, a quake Lifestream combo is happening! An amidst it all, Weapon shows up! I like how Goddamn T is just pissed off about it showing up rather than being like even the least bit worried lol.
Ultima Weapon here isn't very troublesome if ya got your guard up. Its signature super move Ultima Beam... did no damage to FF XIII and minimal damage to Goddamn T and Zenny all thanks to an Elemental + HP Plus combo on their armor! Theres a Cursed Ring ta steal from this thing btw!
After seeing its super move do almost nothing to the party, Ultima up and flys away! Weapon sure aren't living up to their super monster legend!
When that moment of calm has passed the tremors begin even stronger then before! Goddamn T's gonna save his own butt and flee leaving everyone in Mideel to do the same!
What's seen some shit in his day. An now This is about to as well! If What's initial dip in the Lifestream left him as he is now, he's about to get a whole lot worse. Same for This!
Somehow it leads ta her ending up in What's head! Time to repair some psychological damage!
The first stop is Nibelheim of 5 years ago naturally. His version of it is exactly the same as the one she remembers so thats gotta be good I think? Calling this place Nibelheim may be abit of a stretch. The menu lists it as... well nothing. This place is a void. Why here of all times and places can the menu be opened?! Whatevs! Lets me get What equipped with some of the latest & greatest gear found in his absence.
Okies we're doing this for the 3rd time is it? No wonder people say Disc 2 is rehashy!
Ohhh heyyy. This finally stops holding back! It only took What turning into a vegetable and the impending doom of the world ta get her to spit it all out!
An now Nibelheim from 7 years ago! This memory doesn't help out much but another look at cute lil What don't hurt!
This says he needs ta show a memory about her. If he says something that she remembers its gotta be true right? But on another subject the motivation behind What wanting to join SOLDIER comes out! The rather simple motivation of wanting ta be noticed by literally the only girl in town!
As if 4 What's on screen weren't enough, this lil one comes along and is like "hey This, are ya sure YOU'RE the one not forgetting things?"!
Right on in to the Nibelheim of ??? years ago. Its pre-promise that much is certain. This doesn't recall What ever coming to her room though. Is he making stuff up again?
Poor lil What! He was the outsider of the Nibel kids an thus super jelly of This's group!
They may not have been close at all beforehand, but after their promise This kept her eyes an ears open for news of What. Bet he'd be super chuffed ta hear that!
Umm well about that...
Its the day This's mom died. She and her friends go to see if dead people pass through Mt. Nibel, though the friends turn back. What catches up just as that good old crappy rope bridge sends the two of 'em for a fall!
This ended up in a coma for 7 days and What got blamed for this mess. He got super mad at himself for not being able to save her an ended up lashing out at others cause of it. Thats when he heard of Sephiroth and SOLDIER. btw you can open the menu here an it'll say you're at Mt. Nibel. This EMPTY WHITE SPACE is not a void.
Ohh 8? So that was the Nibelheim of like 12 years ago. Coincidentally that what ya get when adding the 5 + 7 year flashbacks! Regardless with a memory that old What couldn't have been made 5 years ago!
Mr. Black Hair SOLDIER is named Zack! Hey, didn't we hear about somebody named that a long while back in a super optional scene??
Umm well about that...
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Finally got all of Gau's rages. My first time ever doing so. I would not recommend doing it, what torture, especially since you can't do any of the good Veldt manipulations on the Steam version. 62:40 in-game time for 100%+ completion of the game.
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
Really got back into X-2 over the last few days. Got to chapter 4 last night and it's been a Commsphere marathon for the last few hours.
Learned all the blue bullet abilities available before chapter 5. Looks like they're all required to master the class. Several of them are incredibly useful too. I wasn't planning on learning them all with anybody other than Yuna, but I might go ahead and do it with everybody. Especially since a lot of the moves are easily learned in the creation arena.
Learned all the blue bullet abilities available before chapter 5. Looks like they're all required to master the class. Several of them are incredibly useful too. I wasn't planning on learning them all with anybody other than Yuna, but I might go ahead and do it with everybody. Especially since a lot of the moves are easily learned in the creation arena.
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
You'll get to the Phantom Village eventually. I don't remember how far into the Rift it is. There are a few vendors there you'll be able to stock up at.
Lumpy Onion
Member
Phantom village isn't in the rift, only a frozen version of it without any vendors. The real village is in a southern archipelago's forest accessible through entering combat in the correct forest.
To the person who asked, might as well head out since there aren't any shops there.
Man, fuck playing FF I without an FAQ in 2017. It's just fetch quest after fetch quest with some very limited guidance at times. Some of the dungeons are also stupidly large, and the random encounter rate is way too high.
Only one fiend to go. 13 hours of game time in.
I guess I'm enjoying it overall, but I'm glad I live in a post-internet world.
Only one fiend to go. 13 hours of game time in.
I guess I'm enjoying it overall, but I'm glad I live in a post-internet world.
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
Just got the final few optional dungeons left in FFX-2. I'm torn on how to proceed. I can't cheese catnip anymore, so I'm going to actually have to do a lot of grinding to clear the Via Infinito. Then I'm gonna have to grind my levels up again on new game + to do the harder arena stuff. I'm tempted to just leave the Via Infinito for New Game +, but then I won't have an Iron Duke.
in FFX
I have to beat Earth eater for fortune spheres...
Problem is he seems immune to any kind of special attack (breaks, magics, etc) I am dealing shitty 15000 damage with my super overleveled (255 strength) Tidus.
I used his overdrive slice and dice to turn him on his back, then I dealt a bit more decent damage like 50000 if lucky but still way to slow for the 2 million hp points the beast has.
how do I approach it?? what's the standard modus operandi with this enemy?
also, my Auron has his celestial weapon unlocked and is my 2nd most advanced character in the grid but he does probably a 3rd or a 4th damage of my Tidus ( when Tidus deals 80k damage Auron does like 20k~15k.) why is that? does he just suck or what stat should I improve on?
I have to beat Earth eater for fortune spheres...
Problem is he seems immune to any kind of special attack (breaks, magics, etc) I am dealing shitty 15000 damage with my super overleveled (255 strength) Tidus.
I used his overdrive slice and dice to turn him on his back, then I dealt a bit more decent damage like 50000 if lucky but still way to slow for the 2 million hp points the beast has.
how do I approach it?? what's the standard modus operandi with this enemy?
also, my Auron has his celestial weapon unlocked and is my 2nd most advanced character in the grid but he does probably a 3rd or a 4th damage of my Tidus ( when Tidus deals 80k damage Auron does like 20k~15k.) why is that? does he just suck or what stat should I improve on?
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
Leave Fortune Spheres for last. I had everything else at 255 before I even started farming him. Earth Eater is a pain in the ass even with maxed stats because of how long he takes to reflect flare off his ass at you. Overdrives for some reason do very little damage to him. Only Wakka's Attack Reels hits enough to be better than a normal hit. Best strategy is to just spam it using Entrust with the other party members.
Trying to finish FFVI for the fifth time or so.
Not sure why but I think it's really grabbing me this time. I think in the past, I was playing it too infrequently to keep the plot threads clear. The story moves at a pretty fast pace compared to some more modern RPGs.
Probably helps that I was much faster at getting past the non combat stuff too.
Not sure why but I think it's really grabbing me this time. I think in the past, I was playing it too infrequently to keep the plot threads clear. The story moves at a pretty fast pace compared to some more modern RPGs.
Probably helps that I was much faster at getting past the non combat stuff too.
thanks for replying!
as per usual, Youtube had the answer.
look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pb1VR0xWzs
too bad I really don't like blitzball and don't have Wakka's celestial weapon or reels.
I played the story-related game several weeks ago and that shit was so broken that I didn't want to play it again ever but I know it's mandatory for 100% completion so yersterday I went ahead and told myself "come on, it won't be as broken as in that first game, there you were supposed to lose, give blitzball a chance".
so I played 3 games yesterday and, yep, it's as broken as back then.
.- Overpowered players in the other team that just won't let you push forward
.- They could easily win 5-0 against me but they are stupid and just keep just passing the ball around.
.- when they have the ball, the game auto-plays itself so I have nothing to do... it's worse than grinding for money, spheres or gil because I don't even control my characters.
blitzball is so far the thing I am disliking the most out of this game,
who knows maybe it gets better as I get better at it.
10 minutes per match though.... half of which you're just watching what the characters do, it blows..
EDIT:
WOAH, this method seems even easier :O
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQuZQEqwc5o
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
It's several hours of blitzballing to get all his stuff. It sucks. I just recruit Brother, who's super fast, score a couple times, and just run the ball for the rest of the game. It's a bit faster to reset your data if the wrong league prize shows up. It sucks, but it saves a few hours.
Though Attack Reels helps A LOT on the end game fights. I refrain from using it on Penance though. He's easier if you can keep track of exactly how many times you've hit him so you can kill his arms at just the right moments.
I'm playing FFXIITZA.
This isn't my first playthrough of 12, but it's a good game and I don't mind replaying it.
I never beat the trail mode when I played IZJS, but I'm planning to change that this time around.
I still need to play I,III and V(I have the last one on PSN) as well.
As a big fan of Job systems, I really want to play V at some point.
If I'm really desperate I give XV another shot. Maybe I can handle more than 10 mintues this time around.
This isn't my first playthrough of 12, but it's a good game and I don't mind replaying it.
I never beat the trail mode when I played IZJS, but I'm planning to change that this time around.
I still need to play I,III and V(I have the last one on PSN) as well.
As a big fan of Job systems, I really want to play V at some point.
If I'm really desperate I give XV another shot. Maybe I can handle more than 10 mintues this time around.
III is pretty fun and also has a job system. I'm assuming you'll be playing the Nintendo DS version? (The 3D remake) Only one or two parts of the story are really memorable, but it's the gameplay that's the selling point.
Oh, and that last dungeon...holy hell. Try to have your party maxed out if you don't want to cry. If you die, you start all over from the start of the dungeon and there are no saves inside.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Ok since my PS2 is having problems now, I can't seem to play Dirge of Cerberus. So now my FF30th playthroughs are:
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy XIII
Don't hate on me guys!
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy XIII
Don't hate on me guys!
Are there people who dislike FF X?
One day I'll play XIII...
My unplayed and/or unfinished list includes I, II, V, XII, XIII, and XV. Have never even thought of dabbling in the online titles. Working on taking I and II off that list with the Dawn of Souls duo on my GBA.
Every numbered FF game has people that dislike it. That's what happens when you have a series where each game is very different from each other.
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