Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
But this has both, and that's the point they're making
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In Destiny 2, shaders are now one-time use. (And yes, tied to microtransactions.)
- Thread starter ZeoVGM
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GinoFelino
Member
After all the previous efforts turned out be nothing, at long last the true destiny 2 outrage has arrived
So your argument is that cosmetics matter. Okay. My comment was simply that i was told that MTs for cosmetics were okay.
However while the change sucks, the core act of coloring and collecting shaders for your look did not the change. In fact, they increased the amount of what could be colored. Right? These shaders can still be collected in the world while you play, correct?
So it looks like the trade off is more detail and options vs consumables. I guess its up to the person to decide if its worth the trade. (And yeah you could argue that there shouldnt be a trade at all, but Bungie wants their money).
Destiny is an MMO. So i am really not surprised to see this. =/
Destiny is definitely a buy 2 play MMO. Silly to think otherwise. Also, are shaders a cornerstone of Destiny's business model? FFXIV is an even worse example because of the monthly fee and cash shop.
How this works in some other games I've played:
Warframe (F2P) - You buy palettes of colors with microtransactions. (Some palettes are given away for seasonal events.) Palettes come with around 60 colors each, and sell for like $1 in real money. Changing colors on your equipment is free and unlimited.
Guild Wars 2 (B2P) - Dyes are found, gathered, crafted or bought. Once you unlock a dye color, you have access to it permanently. Changing colors on your equipment is free and unlimited.
Final Fantasy 14: ARR (MMO w/sub) - Pots of dye are bought from vendors or crafted. Pots of dye can only be used once, and are consumed upon coloring an item.
Destiny 1 (B2P w/microtransactions) - Shaders are found, bought from vendors, or are rewards from certain activities and in-game achievements. You can only carry a limited amount of Shaders on you at a time, but all Shaders you've unlocked are available from an in-game kiosk at no charge. Shaders color all your equipment at once, but changing Shaders is free and unlimited.
Contrast that now with D2:
Destiny 2 (B2P w/microtransactions) - Currently, Shaders are found as random drops or as part of microtransactions. Each separate piece of equipment can be shaded separately, but Shaders are consumed upon use. There is no kiosk or way to re-get Shaders outside of random drops or microtransactions.
Essentially, it takes the Final Fantasy 14: ARR system and strips out all the easy ways (read: vendors) to get Shaders. No unlocks, no kiosks, just more RNG.
Warframe (F2P) - You buy palettes of colors with microtransactions. (Some palettes are given away for seasonal events.) Palettes come with around 60 colors each, and sell for like $1 in real money. Changing colors on your equipment is free and unlimited.
Guild Wars 2 (B2P) - Dyes are found, gathered, crafted or bought. Once you unlock a dye color, you have access to it permanently. Changing colors on your equipment is free and unlimited.
Final Fantasy 14: ARR (MMO w/sub) - Pots of dye are bought from vendors or crafted. Pots of dye can only be used once, and are consumed upon coloring an item.
Destiny 1 (B2P w/microtransactions) - Shaders are found, bought from vendors, or are rewards from certain activities and in-game achievements. You can only carry a limited amount of Shaders on you at a time, but all Shaders you've unlocked are available from an in-game kiosk at no charge. Shaders color all your equipment at once, but changing Shaders is free and unlimited.
Contrast that now with D2:
Destiny 2 (B2P w/microtransactions) - Currently, Shaders are found as random drops or as part of microtransactions. Each separate piece of equipment can be shaded separately, but Shaders are consumed upon use. There is no kiosk or way to re-get Shaders outside of random drops or microtransactions.
Essentially, it takes the Final Fantasy 14: ARR system and strips out all the easy ways (read: vendors) to get Shaders. No unlocks, no kiosks, just more RNG.
Freeman76
Member
There is one common difference between all the games you listed and D2. In D2 all you see is your gun most of the time. This thread is beyond pathetic. People losing their shit because you cant easily change the colour of your avatar you barely even see?
And you know what, this is honestly my biggest complaint. Why does something that is a core part of the game have to be changed to something that makes it more annoying to participate in when it was fine before?
What a nice and polite thing to say.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
It definitely does suck that D2 charges for so many things.
Their whole 'Microtransactions will fund free events!' was BS as well. Paid DLC, paid Shaders, Paid sparrows, paid ships, paid armor, paid everything interesting. And everything substantial is Pay 2 Play as well.
Oh well. Maybe they'll make the Osiris DLC free? I know they won't. I'm asking a retrospective question.
Their whole 'Microtransactions will fund free events!' was BS as well. Paid DLC, paid Shaders, Paid sparrows, paid ships, paid armor, paid everything interesting. And everything substantial is Pay 2 Play as well.
Oh well. Maybe they'll make the Osiris DLC free? I know they won't. I'm asking a retrospective question.
shiftplusone
Member
I think the big reason this is considered shady is due to the fact it is a change in the way it used to work for no obvious reason other than to facilitate real money purchases.
Arguing semantics, it is a new game so they haven't taken anything away from the players and hid it behind a cash shop, but that's semantics. It worked 1 way in Destiny 1, and now it works a different way because of the inclusion of microtransactions.
It's messy, at its best
It definitely is not
Arguing semantics, it is a new game so they haven't taken anything away from the players and hid it behind a cash shop, but that's semantics. It worked 1 way in Destiny 1, and now it works a different way because of the inclusion of microtransactions.
It's messy, at its best
It definitely is not
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Destiny 2 also requires a season pass for the DLC.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
whoa whoa whoa lets not get ahead of ourselves. They didn't even change the character creator!
Raven117
Member
Sure, I recognize its a big deal for lots of folks.
All it is going to do is force people not to use shaders until you get the perfect armor set. Which sucks.
2blackcats
Member
Agreed.
Also I think it should be difficult enough to deck your dude out in whatever shaders you want.
Mr.Deadshot
Member
Yeah, so don't buy it if it's that upsetting that you have to pay for shaders.But this has both, and that's the point they're making
There are other games that have paid DLC and microtransactions. People need to inform themselves before buying a product.
I don't say that microtransactions or lootboxes or RNG or whatever are a great thing. But they are around for years now and they won't go away. It doesn't make any sense to complain about them every single day. Just look at the system a game has in place and then vote with your wallet. There are enough other games to play instead.
Pretty high chance that event loot boxes will have limited edition RNG shaders not available by playing the game.
I can't even lie...Shaders are a big part of the game for me and if they're being ran like this, I'm gonna opt out of PC too.
I used to search and grind for the right shader to complement my Twilight Garrison, New raid armor sets and etc.
During sixes I would match other players if I could for shits and giggles.
It's fun to play fashion with the shaders.
I used to search and grind for the right shader to complement my Twilight Garrison, New raid armor sets and etc.
During sixes I would match other players if I could for shits and giggles.
It's fun to play fashion with the shaders.
In Overwatch you only see your character weapon most of the time and that doesn't stop people from valuing one skin above another or spending hundreds of dollars on loot boxes.
So your argument is pretty dumb.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yeah. This is something those defenders of the change dont' get.
Destiny is a loot game. Destiny is a game about wanting to look how you want to look. Bungie isn't going to praise you for defending them and their changes to Shaders.
It sucks. In a game where you constantly change armor, and never keep one piece too long, having to rebuy a shader(Or a chance at one you're looking for) blows.
Kwansu Dudes
Member
Ive been seeing a lot of, "it doesn't affect me so I don't care and you shouldn't either" in these types of threads. Seems familiar...
Thank you for posting this thread. I'll have to spread the word to my friends before they start consuming.
Yui's Empire
Member
As I said in the other thread: it may not be breaking the game's balance, but it's sad that a full priced game with very expensive and numerous expansion packs also resorts to MTs. The game sells like crazy regardless, but they just have to go the extra mile. I've got the feeling that later in Destiny 2's life we'll have worse MTs as well, but let's hope I'm wrong.
Angelus Errare
Banned
CartridgeBlower
Member
"Destiny, but without all the bullshit."
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
If the original Destiny and the usual Activision behavior is anything to go by, they'll keep pushing the envelope little by little and see what they can get away with.
Yeah, exactly. It pushes people to -not- be creative.
"Destiny, but with just different bullshit."
So hold on let's me confirm something. So if let's say I want all blue armors. I need to get (4-5 blue shaders) one for each pieces of armor. Then if I upgrade my armor set and want to keep it all blue. I would need to find 5 more blue shaders.
That's some good ol' BS.
Difficult on what? Your wallet? Your free time?
You either grind until you get what you want or pay until you get what you want. There is no "difficulty" or "skill" involved
Spartancarver
Member
This was inevitable as soon as Activision noticed that people were defending any level of microtransaction in a $60 game which already had a paid season pass for "major" DLC.
As usual, gamers are poor consumers and our own worst enemies
As usual, gamers are poor consumers and our own worst enemies
Continuing with what ShiftPlusOne said, if the shaders drop abundantly across the whole game, then it is functionally identical to Destiny 1. They should just be permanent. If the shaders don't drop abundantly (some will be rare. You know there will be), then it forces microtransactions or more grinding, and the fact that you can buy your way out is disrespectful of the grinding. There is no reason why they should be consumables.
Shaders were a badge of honor. Now they are tips for Bobby Kotick's strippers.
CountAntonius
Member
As a PC player I am regretting my preorder tbh. I was always weary of activision and the high price of expansions vs how many free updates I get on most of my games but throwing in f2p stuff in a game that will cost easily cost over 150$ to to be complete is just dirty and makes me wish I never gave them my money.
It's not that yesterday's bright engram fiasco or today's dye job will be game breaking it's that they simply are a move in a bad direction by a company that is awful at being fair to their consumers.
It's not that yesterday's bright engram fiasco or today's dye job will be game breaking it's that they simply are a move in a bad direction by a company that is awful at being fair to their consumers.
I don't think you know what the definition of 'difficult' is.
Yeah when WotM dropped I was constantly changing to new loot to up my level to 400 and it took me forever. Yet I had a consistent look. That is no more. Sure it isn't a gameplay change in the general sense but aesthetics is a big reason why some people play the game in the first place. If the design didn't draw me into D1, I would have never touched the game in the first place.
Raven117
Member
Its a bullshit design choice that's for sure, but for me, its not going to significantly impact the way I enjoy the game.
RichiRamjag
Member
Pretty much. You can see it front and center in these threads.
You're right, I suppose it could be difficult at your job irl to earn the money required to buy the engrams. Or finding the time irl to sit there and do the same shit over and over to level up for the engrams.
Sweet jesus that's a lot... I would dump all my shaders after I went past 3
Yui's Empire
Member
Nothing to lose, really. Push these features little by little. If the outrage is too big, they can backpedal and look for other ways of income. If the community and media downplay it and enough people buy it, they can push one step forward. Activision isn't new to shameless experiments this gen (OP weapons in loot crates in COD, tons of expensive and fairly low quality DLCs [the first ones at least] in Destiny, almost full-priced remasters of several years old games that weren't even that popular to begin with, etc.), so chances are D2 will see a lot of attempts at further monetizing the product. I spent hundreds of hours on D1 but I'm getting a bit tired of such schemes in service games, especially when games like Overwatch, Rocket League or Titanfall 2 manage to give tons of quality updates for free and limit the MTs to fairly useless stuff, so I doubt I'm buying into D2. Maybe an all DLCs included version in 2-3 years.
ScientificPizza
Banned
As long as the drop rate is really this high then this isn't that bad I guess
It still sucks though
Glad your understanding of the real world have progressed beyond a basic elementary level.
People who buy a full price game doesn't really want to spend an absurd amount of time grinding for something that should really be a permanent thing for them once they unlocked it.
But if the drop rate is so high to make it trivial to recollect shaders, why have them be consumable at all?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I'll never understood why people defend corporations taking advantadge of them.
If at least this was a small indie game or whatever, but we're taking a multibillion company focusing on one thing: giving you, as a customer, as less value as possible so that they can milk you for as much as possible.
I played a shitton of destiny 1, i'm passing on destiny 2.
Fucking warframe is F2P and they handle this shader thing in a more gracious and less abusive way.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
"People replay raids anyway, so they'll be getting multiple shaders every week"
You get them in multiples not just 1 at a time.
That's exactly right.
So why in the world would anyone even bother using shaders on blue armors? Everyone is just going to hold onto their shaders until they're level 20 and max LL.
And even then, the fact that you can't just quickly play around with different shaders on legendary armor is just a complete miscalculation. It ruins one of Destiny 1's best features.
(Also, still just one emote slot. For some reason. But buy more though!)
Robdraggoo
Member
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
They drop in stacks of 5.
RichiRamjag
Member
I hear ya. I stated yesterday in the other thread that microtransactions leads them to design the game in an inconvenient way to make those microtransactions more appealing and rather than discuss the matter, knuckleheads were arguing about whether or not some of us even played the first destiny in an effort to shut down criticism. Now look at what we've found out today...I'd expect more from gaf.
I purchased the game and I'm only really keeping it because my son was really excited. If I had known this yesterday, I honestly would have refrained.
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