Dabookerman
Member
No. It was horrible. Didn't work 100% of the time, meaning it was broken. Main reason why I hardly touched my wii, and one of the reasons why Zelda was ruined.
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Is anyone upset that there is hardly any focus on Motion Controls?
- Thread starter zero shift
- Start date
I haven't played that yet so I couldnt say, but slicing an enemy in a specific way sounds more fun than mashing the attack button.
Dabookerman
Member
At least the attack button worked every time.
Terrible Majesty
Member
Yes. Oculus Rift would be even more shway if it had like two power gloves connected to it. Hook me up to an IV, G-tube feed and catheter, I'm not coming back to the real world.
Snapshot King
Member
Crowd control, item use in battle and perfect dodge/counterattacks in Windwaker were dramatically more interesting and fun than the game of Simon Says you play in Skyward Sword.
Wind Waker was press A to win.
Snapshot King
Member
Indeed, and yet it was still more in depth than Skyward Sword. Crazy huh?
Gormless Noodle
Member
I'm glad it's gone, I never want it to come back. It plunged Skyward Sword to near CDi levels of horrible for me. It might have actually cured me of getting excited for another Zelda for the foreseeable future.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
As bad as the wider ranging concept of it is I actually favor the intentionally limiting form factor the dual shock controller provides for motion because we don't get games that solely rely on it and are still able to sense some motion in the controller
Well I'm not sure I'm upset about motion specific gaming, but I am bummed about where Sony has gone, after trying some shooters with move (they made them actually playable on consoles) I so wished to see Move as a default secondary scheme for first person games.
And certainly with the camera optional there's going to be no third party support for the camera and move again.
And certainly with the camera optional there's going to be no third party support for the camera and move again.
Combat-wise, it really wasn't.
As far as Zelda goes, I've never had more fun fighting than in the Ancient Cistern boss fight. That's what really sold me on motion controls.
Snapshot King
Member
Which one was that? It's been a while since I've played.
Yes, let me explain why. There is a huge amount of potential with motion controls and its honestly quite terrible how their first iteration first turned out.
There are a few main problems with motion controls those being ability of the player and how well they are utilized.
A lot of people complain about them not working, but the fact of the matter is you need to move your arm precisely for them to work. Its quite comparable to using a mouse for aiming in fps games.
That being said it is much easier for someone to press a button to do something rather then moving their arm precisely enough. Motion controls can have a huge impact to game immersion, but they way it is now people would prefer for a game to look better and have an easier control scheme.
There are a few main problems with motion controls those being ability of the player and how well they are utilized.
A lot of people complain about them not working, but the fact of the matter is you need to move your arm precisely for them to work. Its quite comparable to using a mouse for aiming in fps games.
That being said it is much easier for someone to press a button to do something rather then moving their arm precisely enough. Motion controls can have a huge impact to game immersion, but they way it is now people would prefer for a game to look better and have an easier control scheme.
lightchris
Member
I don't get where Wind Waker had more in-depth swordfighting than Skyward Sword.
Most importantly, it was just more fun in Skyward Sword.
Sentenza
Member
So much this.
Spring-Loaded
Member
I'd only like for there to be more games using motion controls so that there'd be incentive to perfect them. Skyward Sword was the only thing I played with Wii Motion Plus and it was great, yet there was still the occasional moment where a swing would go in a different direction, a stab wouldn't register or I'd have to recalibrate it. It's a cool novelty for that type of game, but it loses its purpose when it becomes a hassle.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
That is 100x more applicable to gameplay than motion controls, though.
"I'm glad we got rid of that gimmick, now if they will only stop progressing gameplay!"
zero shift
Banned
This isn't true at all. A vast majority of people loved the control scheme.
Added nothing? The enemies actions and counter were completely dependent on where and how you swung the sword. Far from "nothing".
Compare that to previous Zelda games where it was just mashing th A button.
Snapshot King
Member
Did you send me the wrong boss fight? There was nothing in that boss fight that required anything to do with motion controls. The entire thing could have easily been done on a gamepad using old Zelda controls from Windwaker.
You could have done the same thing without motion controls, the only difference being there would be no diagonal slash.
EDIT: People are confusing part of what I'm saying. Skyward Sword DID add things to the combat. Those things however, had nothing to do with motion controls, and implementing both new ideas and motion controls simultaneously, blanded combat into simon says. There's no reason you couldn't do stab/horizontal/vertical required phases in prior games, they just chose not to do so. They had to somehow emphasize motion controls for this one, so they did so here.
zero shift
Banned
I'm convinced that you haven't played the game. How you slash is dependent on how the limbs get cut off. It would have been horrendous on the GameCube and was when other games tried the same approach with analog.
And pinpoint precision, and depth of slash, and the speed of the sword, and a whole bunch of other things...
I'm really being convinced that you did not play the game.
And it could also be completed with QTE where you just mash buttons if the designers wanted- that's not the point. In all my years of playing video games, that was the first time where I ever felt like I was personally in a duel with a giant enemy
That most first-iteration software did this badly compared to control methods refined over decades is not surprising or unusual.
Snapshot King
Member
I got exactly halfway through and gave up. I feel however, that you're inventing depth where there is none. Speed and depth of slash? You controlled the direction of your slash in Skyward Sword for a total of 11 different strikes. The 8 cardinal directions, a stab, and the horizontal and vertical spin attacks.
See? Exactly. My whole point is that motion controls all revolve, not around actual increased fidelity of control, but around the feeling of "Yay I'm swinging the sword." For some, I imagine that's a positive. For myself? It's bullshit. I'm not swinging a sword, I'm playing a game. Swinging a sword in Dark Souls, with its incumbent weight and recovery? That felt a hell of a lot more immersive than any swinging around of my own arm.
zero shift
Banned
How fast you swing the Wii remote is how fast the sword moves.
Also wtf at "you only have a shitload of new moves and things you can do now, that's the only difference!"
Because what you say makes no sense. There are numourous things that couldn't be done with a gamepad with sword controls. Its like people ,issued the tons of hilarious attempts to get sword accuracy on dual analog with games before. You also complain about "blanded combat" in a series in which the previous games in the series continuously tapping the A button.
I love how you ignore my posts and others and say "see? You guys only care about IMMERSION not gameplay!"
This.
I picked up the Wii versions of Metroid and Pikmin recently because I never finished them in my Gamecube days. Borrowed a Wiimote from a friend and have been blown away by how great the pointer controls are.
I'd literally been playing Prime for a few minutes before pausing and going back online to order Resident Evil 4 Wii.
ShadowFox08
Member
CoD still supports wiimote motion controls with each iteration.. Thank god.
Snapshot King
Member
Was not aware of the bolded. I guess you have a point then, maybe Skyward Sword did add things to the Zelda combat formula. It went from originally brutally hard 2d combat (which I loved) to mindless 3d combat (which was fine) to motion controlled 3d combat that has a little depth, but no dynamism (which I despise). So I suppose I'll have to change my stance from Skyward Sword having ruined Zelda, to Zelda almost always having bad combat, but this time it was annoying to boot.
I was referring to that specific persons posts. I suggest you also reload the page and see the multiple edits I've done to every post, including more quotes from more people after I post. Getting confrontational and accusatory with me because I hate motion controls and implying I'm actively ignoring you, cmon. Gimme a break.
That being said, all in all, I suppose I never played Zelda for the combat. I played it for the dungeons. Maybe the issue I had was bad combat giving way to mediocre but involved combat, in a series in which I don't give a fuck about the combat. If I want combat I'll play character action, or the Souls series.
Maastricht
Member
I agree with the OP! I really hope the next Killzone and Infamous still have the Move as option. I hope the new Eye can do even more precise pointing, as games like Gunslinger would be far better. I am glad DriveClub still supports tilt steering as that worked great in Motorstorm except for bikes, but the gyro is much better in the DS4 so it should be even better. I hope shooters will give options to decouple the gun from looking, this would be great to get in there by default, so that Oculus Rift benefits as well. I want graffity in Infamous using the Move controller rather than using a stupid tablet. Boxing and swordfighting with move has been fantastic, and I can't think of anything that would make me happier than a Skyrim with full Move support (but thank god Sports Champions provided hardcore levels of depth and difficulty). I want Descent style space shooters that use all axis that the DS4 provided so you can move a spaceship completely freely in all possible directions.
For me, motion control gaming (when done right) has been the highlight in gameplay innovation of the last gen. But thanks to the 'hardcore' crowd much like is showing up, Sony and Microsoft are now too scared to even mention Motion controls in their press conferences. Hopefully at GamesCom, where the European audience is more receptive, we will see if they're not outright dead or resigned completely to casual markets.
For me, motion control gaming (when done right) has been the highlight in gameplay innovation of the last gen. But thanks to the 'hardcore' crowd much like is showing up, Sony and Microsoft are now too scared to even mention Motion controls in their press conferences. Hopefully at GamesCom, where the European audience is more receptive, we will see if they're not outright dead or resigned completely to casual markets.
Freezie KO
Banned
Thank Treyarch!
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
Do they support the move?
Glass Rebel
Member
Not upset but a bit disappointed that they seemingly gave up so fast. Motion-controls weren't perfect and who knows if they'll ever be but I found the few experiments really interesting. Skyward Sword in particular was, most of the time, very cool with it's use but I'm aware that it wasn't 100% accurate for many, even if I didn't have any issues with it.
What I'll really miss though is the pointer. It's so much better than dual analog, it isn't even funny. It sadly also means that we'll never get another railshooter as good as Sin & Punishment 2 during this generation
What I'll really miss though is the pointer. It's so much better than dual analog, it isn't even funny. It sadly also means that we'll never get another railshooter as good as Sin & Punishment 2 during this generation
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I'm pretty sure Nintendo still intend to support the wiimote during this entire generation, or at least for the next two years or so.
They just released their own first party chargers for the wiimote, and their multiplayer games are all built around having one player on the pad and others on the wiimote.
Pikmin 3 uses wiimote+nunchuck, Zelda Wii U will almost certainly use motion controls to some extent, then there's the inevitable Wii Sports sequel etc.
The bigger question is will we see it heavily integrated in any new IP, from Nintendo or otherwise?
They just released their own first party chargers for the wiimote, and their multiplayer games are all built around having one player on the pad and others on the wiimote.
Pikmin 3 uses wiimote+nunchuck, Zelda Wii U will almost certainly use motion controls to some extent, then there's the inevitable Wii Sports sequel etc.
The bigger question is will we see it heavily integrated in any new IP, from Nintendo or otherwise?
Freezie KO
Banned
It sadly also means that we'll never get another railshooter as good as Sin & Punishment 2 during this generation
Maybe ever...
ibun
Member
well depends on the use case. i was never fond of the pointer thing of the wii because my movements were too clunky to react appropriately.
if motion controlls arent mandatory i am ok with it. it wasnt bad with uncharted 1 and keeping your balance, but you'd could turn it off. terrible in Lair, since flying dragons were only possible with motion controll.
If it is something to add depth to the gaming experience i am ok with it (still optional) if its something used just because its there and sony/ninty asked them to use it "it would be sooo much cooler if they would waggle it around" "yeah sure but....it doesnt make sense" "sure it does...here the moneeehyz".
the next big thing "SecondScreen", smartglass, tablett, phone, TV whatever. i dont know if i would like it, when the game sends some updates to my phone "YOU HAVE TOOO UPGRAAAAADE. in 15 minutes the armor has to be rearranged" but i am...well doing something else.
if motion controlls arent mandatory i am ok with it. it wasnt bad with uncharted 1 and keeping your balance, but you'd could turn it off. terrible in Lair, since flying dragons were only possible with motion controll.
If it is something to add depth to the gaming experience i am ok with it (still optional) if its something used just because its there and sony/ninty asked them to use it "it would be sooo much cooler if they would waggle it around" "yeah sure but....it doesnt make sense" "sure it does...here the moneeehyz".
the next big thing "SecondScreen", smartglass, tablett, phone, TV whatever. i dont know if i would like it, when the game sends some updates to my phone "YOU HAVE TOOO UPGRAAAAADE. in 15 minutes the armor has to be rearranged" but i am...well doing something else.
Do you mean like the Ghirahim fight where you needed to guide his hand to one side or do you mean faster wiimote swing = more damage? I'm almost positive the latter is false, I'm also pretty sure once the game registers a swing faster enough, it just goes into the slicing animation too.
The Ghirahim fights seemed like anomalies too because they're the only fights in the game where the position of Link's sword actually mattered IIRC. The granularity of the slow sword movement used in a few puzzles but I don't recall it being important anywhere else since enemies seemed to just cycle through different poses.
The fad is finally dying! It can go back to what it was meant to be, used for mini games and sold seperately. Games like wario ware are PERFECT for the wiimote. Also wii sports, or sports champions do it fairly well. But when i want to play an actual game I put down those controllers, turn off any sixaxis or motion bs, and play the game with a controller.
Not upset but a bit disappointed that they seemingly gave up so fast. Motion-controls weren't perfect and who knows if they'll ever be but I found the few experiments really interesting. Skyward Sword in particular was, most of the time, very cool with it's use but I'm aware that it wasn't 100% accurate for many, even if I didn't have any issues with it.
I think the problem was more in regards to how people used the controller rather then the controls not being 100% accurate. There were times during the game were I just wanted to blow through a few places and noticed my swings getting considerably sloppier and thus it seemed as if i couldn't hit anything.
Still pretty sure 70% of the time people weren't swinging correctly.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
It's probably a similar situation to how typing text on a keyboard is still the norm despite speech to text dictation making considerable advances in the past two decades.
edit: actually I take that first part back. STT is not less accurate than typing. I remember reading a review of Dragon Naturally Speaking on Ars Technica a few years back that compared the same paragraph typed and dictated. The typed one had more mistakes, but they were easier to identify because they mostly resulted in non-existent words.
The problem with motion controls, like STT, is related to the user not feeling they are completely in control. It's easy to blame yourself when you're the one who pressed the wrong button, but much more ambiguous when there's a complex and abstract level of interpretation between you and the program.
When dealing with button presses, there's generally only two parameters that can go wrong:
1. Button not pressed
2. Pressed at wrong time
The first one is literally a single bit of information the user has to learn. Consequently, most games emphasize giving as much feedback as possible to help understand the second parameter, which is the more complex one. And even then, many games that don't do this clearly enough suffer from polarizing opinions as a result. Just look at the Jet Set Radio thread for an example of "you're playing it wrong!".
Motion controls add at least one more multi-dimensional parameter, and without giving the user much more explicit feedback, result in disorientation and loss of satisfaction..
Thrillhouse
Member
I feel that the real loss is the IR-pointer. Such a perfect way to blend the best of mouse/touch controls with a console.
Snapshot King
Member
The perfect way is to allow mouse and keyboard for consoles.
Thrillhouse
Member
Uhm...no? Then you wouldn't have a gamepad and you wouldn't be able to sit back and relax in your couch.