gutterboy44
Member
Oh god, my Duna rover mission with a sky crane style landing did not go so hot. Will post some pics later. I should have just kept shit simple.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Kerbal Space Program |OT| 1.2 Loud and Clear - Comm Networks, New Fuel Flow and More
- Thread starter gutterboy44
- Start date
I think the only reason that we used a crane on Mars is so that the dust kicked up by the thrusters was kept to a minimum. For Duna, you just don't need to worry about that, so take the thrusters all the way down with the buggy and then fly 'em away once it's safely down.
gutterboy44
Member
That is what I did. I didn't install any mods that let me do a skycrane proper, but I did leave my rover super exposed and the last time I did this, they didn't implement wheel damage, so you had to be really soft with the landing to not damage the wheels. Like a fool I only put on drogue chutes and not a regular shoot. I also lacked a reaction wheel so my lame probe core torque was not enough to keep the platform stable very easily. I even tried landing it with the heat shield assembly still attached, and it worked perfectly...but them my rover was beached on the heat shield and without a reaction wheel or RCS I couldn't wiggle it off. Eventually I just said fuck it and landed my penultimate stage on end, then just lifted my "skycrane" off that. I could have done it proper if I just reverted and added some parts. I only did it for the challenge. Next time I am doing a more traditional lander with rover. All of that for some lame ass 3.11% ore levels in the area.
brianmcdoogle
Member
Is anyone playing on a Mac? I get constant crashing so when reentering Kerbin, and I've had several other crashes as well at various other times. In my eight hours of playtime, I've had probably two dozen crashes. This is almost unplayable for me.
It's a late 2012 iMac. No mods or adding installed.
It's a late 2012 iMac. No mods or adding installed.
MacGurcules
Member
Did that temperature gauge memory leak issue ever get fixed? If not, that might be what you're running into.
Try hitting F10 to disable the overheat meters and see if that fixes it. If you're getting crashes during reentry or prolonged high-speed flight, that's what I'd look at first.
gutterboy44
Member
Yes, it got the 64bit support a few releases before 1.0. Next release is Unity 5 support which should see some performance increases across the board. 64 bit is only useful if you are loading in a ton of mods as it stands.
gutterboy44
Member
Some mission photos. First one was my uncessarily complicated Duna rover lander. Second is Duna orbital research station.
She was looking good. Almost everything went to plan, until the final landing bit. It was fun setting up lots of action groups for it.
The lander package that enters Duna atmosphere
Red light at night for a red planet flight.
After the aerobraking I was able to get an orbit with plenty of delta V left...which comes in handy later.
Package ready for delivery
After this,
https://zippy.gfycat.com/GlamorousMindlessKingbird.webm
and this,
https://zippy.gfycat.com/BoldTeemingLadybird.webm
where it looks like I landed ok, but actually I ended up beaching my rover on the heatshield decoupler with no way to get off it, I said fuck it, and decided to land my penultimate stage like this. It was almost too easy. Luckily I had plenty of delta v from earlier.
Lil' Rovy scouting the ore on Duna ( I forgot to put any science experiments on it so I couldn't complete the last part of the contract to collect science from the surface. Doh. I'll be back though)
Next up was a contract to build an Duna orbiting research lap. Piece of cake. What a lovely looking potato.
Hot potato
After one or two trial and errors for the right aero braking point, she made it to orbit without much fuss.
Duna is becoming just another quick trip like Minmus or Mun. Every trip does tend to turn up some unforeseen complication though. Nevertheless, time to start going further!
She was looking good. Almost everything went to plan, until the final landing bit. It was fun setting up lots of action groups for it.
The lander package that enters Duna atmosphere
Red light at night for a red planet flight.
After the aerobraking I was able to get an orbit with plenty of delta V left...which comes in handy later.
Package ready for delivery
After this,
https://zippy.gfycat.com/GlamorousMindlessKingbird.webm
and this,
https://zippy.gfycat.com/BoldTeemingLadybird.webm
where it looks like I landed ok, but actually I ended up beaching my rover on the heatshield decoupler with no way to get off it, I said fuck it, and decided to land my penultimate stage like this. It was almost too easy. Luckily I had plenty of delta v from earlier.
Lil' Rovy scouting the ore on Duna ( I forgot to put any science experiments on it so I couldn't complete the last part of the contract to collect science from the surface. Doh. I'll be back though)
Next up was a contract to build an Duna orbiting research lap. Piece of cake. What a lovely looking potato.
Hot potato
After one or two trial and errors for the right aero braking point, she made it to orbit without much fuss.
Duna is becoming just another quick trip like Minmus or Mun. Every trip does tend to turn up some unforeseen complication though. Nevertheless, time to start going further!
brianmcdoogle
Member
I'll try that next time. Luckily, I was able to get to the Mun, land, plant the flag, and return back on Kerbin without it crashing,
That said, I've not just had it crash on reentry, but Mun approaches and regular travel (not even time warps). It happens mostly on reentry, but also at seemingly random times. I've sent a few crash reports, so hopefully it gets looked at even if us Mac gamers are a tiny minority.
oxrock
Gravity is a myth, the Earth SUCKS!
Well I just landed on Minmus for my first ever successful mission landing somewhere other than Kerbal. I ran out of fuel on the descent but thank god I was able to decelerate enough to avoid any explosions.
On Minmus I was able to mine/process myself vastly more fuel than needed for the return trip. This was my first time experiencing mining/processing in KSP but it REALLY seems worthwhile and I'm glad I planned ahead. After a long return journey, Jeb and Bill safely touched down near a northern mountain range on their home planet.
I'm a KSP noob (as you might expect from my being excited about an excursion to Minmus) but I actually feel accomplished from having done that. I didn't rely on any addons to hold my hand for me, or follow anyone else's blueprints to create a worthy vessel. I have ample room for improvement no doubt, but I feel some major steps for all Kerbal kind were taken today. With my refueling station orbiting Kerbal finally operational and filled to capacity, I have a feeling other planets need to be on their guard.
On Minmus I was able to mine/process myself vastly more fuel than needed for the return trip. This was my first time experiencing mining/processing in KSP but it REALLY seems worthwhile and I'm glad I planned ahead. After a long return journey, Jeb and Bill safely touched down near a northern mountain range on their home planet.
I'm a KSP noob (as you might expect from my being excited about an excursion to Minmus) but I actually feel accomplished from having done that. I didn't rely on any addons to hold my hand for me, or follow anyone else's blueprints to create a worthy vessel. I have ample room for improvement no doubt, but I feel some major steps for all Kerbal kind were taken today. With my refueling station orbiting Kerbal finally operational and filled to capacity, I have a feeling other planets need to be on their guard.
gutterboy44
Member
New Project B.E.A.S.T. is up - Kerbal: Project B.E.A.S.T - Scott Manley Edition
MrTroubleMaker
Member
He makes it look so easy. i can't wait to see how Vinny tackles it lol
gutterboy44
Member
He even posted a follow up video where he takes the rescue mission a step further. https://youtu.be/Dgo8N2zupFo
MrTroubleMaker
Member
Thanks, that was cool!
Successfully buzzed Minmus and stuck a probe in orbit around it.
So I have some questions. It feels like I'm spending a shittonne of fuel - 2 x 64t big tank's worth - just escaping kerbin orbit and I want to get it more efficient. Is my gravity turn just too sharp? Feels like I'm still going almost 90 degrees when I hit 70k periapsis.
Secondly, is my lander design too tall? It feels like I should have more fuel when I'm coming home since I need to escape Minmus/Mun orbit and chart a course back home, but I'm not sure how to design an efficient lander. Or should I encase the entire thing in fairings so the shape of it doesn't matter so much when launching into space?
So I have some questions. It feels like I'm spending a shittonne of fuel - 2 x 64t big tank's worth - just escaping kerbin orbit and I want to get it more efficient. Is my gravity turn just too sharp? Feels like I'm still going almost 90 degrees when I hit 70k periapsis.
Secondly, is my lander design too tall? It feels like I should have more fuel when I'm coming home since I need to escape Minmus/Mun orbit and chart a course back home, but I'm not sure how to design an efficient lander. Or should I encase the entire thing in fairings so the shape of it doesn't matter so much when launching into space?
You're probably overbuilding your payload. If you double your payload, you more than double your second stage requirements, and more than quadruple your first stage requirements. Weight savings at the top of the stack translate to big savings at the bottom.
gutterboy44
Member
Hard to know without pictures of your ship. It is all about delta V, not how much fuel you have. You can have all the fuel in the world, but if you are using the wrong engine with it, you are not going to get the most efficient use of it. Also as Crispy mentoned, what is your payload looking like? I highly, highly recommend installing Kerbal Engineer mod. It is so useful to see the delta V of your ship and stages while building it. Decisions to throw some extra parts on are immediately reflected in a lowering of your delta V so you start to get the sense of how important every bit of weight is. Sometimes it seems like adding more tanks of fuel means you will go further, but that isn't always the case. Sometimes that extra but of fuel kills your delta V or TWR (thrust to weight ratio)
Post some screenshots and people in the thread would be happy to help with some tips. Also, go grab Kerbal Engineer and install it.
MadYarpen
Member
I got a question - why is it not always possible to revert a flight? For me it is quite important to do some trial and error tests before actual flight, and it seems that after some point reverting is not possible any more. This is why my good old Jebediah is stuck in an enormous orbit around Kerbol 
I think quicksaving locks the flight, but I rarely do it. It locks by itself.
I think quicksaving locks the flight, but I rarely do it. It locks by itself.
I got a question - why is it not always possible to revert a flight? For me it is quite important to do some trial and error tests before actual flight, and it seems that after some point reverting is not possible any more. This is why my good old Jebediah is stuck in an enormous orbit around Kerbol
I think quicksaving locks the flight, but I rarely do it. It locks by itself.
Afaik the possibility to revert disappears once you change to a different craft (or back to the space center).
gutterboy44
Member
8K! Holy moly. That is enough delta V to land on most of the planets and moons in the game. You only need like 4,670 to land on Minmus, even less to just make a fly by. Post a screen shot. Sounds like you might be over building which probably makes your lander much bigger than needed.
I got a question - why is it not always possible to revert a flight? For me it is quite important to do some trial and error tests before actual flight, and it seems that after some point reverting is not possible any more. This is why my good old Jebediah is stuck in an enormous orbit around Kerbol
I think quicksaving locks the flight, but I rarely do it. It locks by itself.
You can quicksave as long as you are not under acceleration. Using named quicksaves, Alt+F5 is really helpful. I tend ot set those before making major maneuvers, like aero braking altitudes. Then I quicksave as I keep going, but if I get into a point where my quicksave state leaves me screwed, I can jump back to a named save position and retry the whole procedure.
Rescuing someone from around Kerbol isn't that bad, just make sure you complete any contracts with deadlines first as you will likely burn through a big chunk of time (if you are even playing career in the first place)
ThreePiMatt
Member
Pay attention to the TWR as well, this isn't something you really needed to watch pre-1.0.5. If its too high you're ascending too fast and so the atmosphere is pushing back harder agaisnt you, wasting fuel. A TWR of about 1.5 is good on the bottom stage, if its higher then that you should throttle back during launch. This is also why its important to watch the g-force meter during launch, you want to keep it in the middle of the green.
This is why for Career mode I think Kerbal Alarm Clock is a must-have. It's the only way you can keep track of multiple long-term missions at the same time.
gutterboy44
Member
Yep, I am now reinstalling that mod because of contracts that take a really long time. Hopefully they will integrate it into the game in a future release.
Landed a full ship on the moon and minmus (easy!)
Landed a full ship on Dune (easy!)
Failed miserably to land a full ship on Eve. Only the Pod survived and landed. That atmosphere burns through everything! its density is like water. Crazy.
With three small fuel tanks I can retrograde from 4500m/s down to ~ 2300m/s. too hot!
I would need two or three more fuel tanks just to decelerate my lander down to ~700m/s and maybe not burn. Accommodating 3 more fuel tanks on my already top heavy behemoth is easy, but really unstable at launch. I already have hundreds of linkages between stages to hold the thing together!
Landed a full ship on Dune (easy!)
Failed miserably to land a full ship on Eve. Only the Pod survived and landed. That atmosphere burns through everything! its density is like water. Crazy.
With three small fuel tanks I can retrograde from 4500m/s down to ~ 2300m/s. too hot!
I would need two or three more fuel tanks just to decelerate my lander down to ~700m/s and maybe not burn. Accommodating 3 more fuel tanks on my already top heavy behemoth is easy, but really unstable at launch. I already have hundreds of linkages between stages to hold the thing together!
gutterboy44
Member
Well done! I haven't tried an Eve landing but it sounds like it is a tricky one. Via the KSP Wiki:
Thanks!
What I experienced is at about 80km the drag (and destructive burn) starts, even at 2200m/s. At 60km I'm already dead...
My problem is the added weight shields require. Makes every maneuver to achieve Eve orbit consume a lot more fuel. So everytime I add components and fuel to survive the atmosphere entry, I ended up spending it just to achieve Eve orbit! I already have a fully modular ship, I only arrive at Eve with the necessary weight.
Its a hard cookie to beat.
What I experienced is at about 80km the drag (and destructive burn) starts, even at 2200m/s. At 60km I'm already dead...
My problem is the added weight shields require. Makes every maneuver to achieve Eve orbit consume a lot more fuel. So everytime I add components and fuel to survive the atmosphere entry, I ended up spending it just to achieve Eve orbit! I already have a fully modular ship, I only arrive at Eve with the necessary weight.
Its a hard cookie to beat.
gutterboy44
Member
Thanks!
What I experienced is at about 80km the drag (and destructive burn) starts, even at 2200m/s. At 60km I'm already dead...
My problem is the added weight shields require. Makes every maneuver to achieve Eve orbit consume a lot more fuel. So everytime I add components and fuel to survive the atmosphere entry, I ended up spending it just to achieve Eve orbit! I already have a fully modular ship, I only arrive at Eve with the necessary weight.
Its a hard cookie to beat.
Are you areobraking to obtain Eve orbit? Any heatshield will be worth its weight in delta V saved via aerobraking.
gutterboy44
Member
Project BEAST gets shit? I check the comments every video and it is post after post of people saying how it is their all time favorite GB content, how much they love the production, and that they don't even like KSP but love the vids. Maybe the hate comes from somewhere else, but it seems people love this video series. I know I do.
ThreePiMatt
Member
It is equal parts entertaining and rage-inducing. Most of which has to do with Vinny's "eclectic" approach to rocket design.
Yeah, I try my best to just roll with his unique ideas for overall design, but when he just flat-out forgets something it can be a bit frustrating. I usually just sit there talking to the screen. "You forgot the decoupler Vinny. You forgot the decoupler, Vinny. Please add a decoupler, Vinny."
Even when he fucks things like that up though, it usually leads to something funny happening, so I try not to get too worked up about it.
Quote
Member
In this thread. It's been better recently tho.
Okay I think this should work
1st stage: 3x Kickbacks + 1x Mainsail. Drops the kickbacks when the fuel runs out, continues on the Mainsail until probably about halfway to getting Kerbin orbit.
2nd stage: 1x Skipper. Fuel usually just sufficient enough to fully get Kerbin orbit. This is where I feel the most fuel inefficiency? Or possibly before.
3rd stage: 4x Terrier engines. Mainly for orbital insertion into Mun/Minmus and retro-rockets. Depending on efficiency, can be used to blast back into space or not.
4th stage: 1x Terrier. My first Mun rocket that managed to make it home ran out of fuel halfway home and had to be manually eva pushed into aerobreaking. It sucked.
Can anyone help me save fuel?
1st stage: 3x Kickbacks + 1x Mainsail. Drops the kickbacks when the fuel runs out, continues on the Mainsail until probably about halfway to getting Kerbin orbit.
2nd stage: 1x Skipper. Fuel usually just sufficient enough to fully get Kerbin orbit. This is where I feel the most fuel inefficiency? Or possibly before.
3rd stage: 4x Terrier engines. Mainly for orbital insertion into Mun/Minmus and retro-rockets. Depending on efficiency, can be used to blast back into space or not.
4th stage: 1x Terrier. My first Mun rocket that managed to make it home ran out of fuel halfway home and had to be manually eva pushed into aerobreaking. It sucked.
Can anyone help me save fuel?
ThreePiMatt
Member
Personally, I'd add a fourth Kickback for better symmetry and throttle down the Mainsail during launch. Then on your second stage use a smaller tank to shorten up the overall rocket, which should make it less wobbly and more easy to control during launch.
I super compacted my lander and stuck two orange tanks on top of a mainsail and managed to buzz minmus with a manned can just to see if I could (and was understanding weight stuff better). Still need a orbital insertion stage maybe but it seems to work a hell of a lot nicer since I'm not pushing as much bulk.
gutterboy44
Member
Is this for landing on Mun and Minmus in a single mission? If it is just for single, Mun landing and back or Minmus landing and back, you can trim a ton of fat. You should only need a single Terrier engine on the final stage. Use smaller tanks without an engine in the radial configuration and drop them as you go, using only one engine in the center.
ThreePiMatt
Member
Jintor, I built the best approximation to your rocket. The numbers are ever so slightly off in terms of TWR and Delta-V, but they're pretty close.
First thing is, I absolutely could not fly it without also adding some struts. Thing was crazy wobbly. I wasn't actually sure what that is on the top of your rocket (parachute + a antenna?) If it was an parachute, I'm not sure if it would have been enough since you have that mono tank on the return stage instead of just below it, so I added a couple more just to be safe.
My performance was basically the same as yours for the first two stages. But once I got into orbit, I made it to the Mun, landed, and returned home entirely on the 3rd stage.
It doesn't look like much left, but it was easily enough to get under 50k by to Kerbin. I ended up using the last stage just to bleed off speed. I could just as easily have dropped it and landed without it.
I decided, however, to make a few changes.
1. Removed the monopropellant. For the Mun, you don't really need it. Since the probe core you have is pretty weak, I added in an SAS module. This gave me slightly more control during launch as well.
2. The launch stage was changed to add in a fourth Kickback, and I downgraded the Mainsail to a Skipper. The SRBs do like 95% of the lifting, with the Skipper being throttled down very low (just enough to get a tiny bit of thrust vectoring).
3. The Second stage was given a much smaller tank and a Poodle engine instead of a Skipper.
Ultimately, its lighter, has less fuel, but more Delta-V. Also cheaper, if you're doing career. With it, you can get into a Kerbin orbit and still have a slight bit of fuel left in the second stage tank.
First thing is, I absolutely could not fly it without also adding some struts. Thing was crazy wobbly. I wasn't actually sure what that is on the top of your rocket (parachute + a antenna?) If it was an parachute, I'm not sure if it would have been enough since you have that mono tank on the return stage instead of just below it, so I added a couple more just to be safe.
My performance was basically the same as yours for the first two stages. But once I got into orbit, I made it to the Mun, landed, and returned home entirely on the 3rd stage.
It doesn't look like much left, but it was easily enough to get under 50k by to Kerbin. I ended up using the last stage just to bleed off speed. I could just as easily have dropped it and landed without it.
I decided, however, to make a few changes.
1. Removed the monopropellant. For the Mun, you don't really need it. Since the probe core you have is pretty weak, I added in an SAS module. This gave me slightly more control during launch as well.
2. The launch stage was changed to add in a fourth Kickback, and I downgraded the Mainsail to a Skipper. The SRBs do like 95% of the lifting, with the Skipper being throttled down very low (just enough to get a tiny bit of thrust vectoring).
3. The Second stage was given a much smaller tank and a Poodle engine instead of a Skipper.
Ultimately, its lighter, has less fuel, but more Delta-V. Also cheaper, if you're doing career. With it, you can get into a Kerbin orbit and still have a slight bit of fuel left in the second stage tank.
So the Kerbalstuff website shutdown and the devs put out a statement about it...
It still baffles me to this day that they never went the Steam Workshop route. It is SO much better than having to rely on 3rd party site and clients. Everything is built-in the Steam UI! One click install for all the mods.
No matter how good a 3rd party site is, it's always gonna be worse than the Workshop... And they're using Curse as the official mod site...lol...come on...
It still baffles me to this day that they never went the Steam Workshop route. It is SO much better than having to rely on 3rd party site and clients. Everything is built-in the Steam UI! One click install for all the mods.
No matter how good a 3rd party site is, it's always gonna be worse than the Workshop... And they're using Curse as the official mod site...lol...come on...
gutterboy44
Member
Yeah, I never used Kerbalstuff, since I tend to only install one or two mods when I play KSP. But it seemed way better than Curse. I always find it difficult to find what I want on Curse. Steam Workshop would be great.
gutterboy44
Member
Yep, what MadYarpen said. I will add the one caveat that make sure your speed indicator on your navball is set to surface and not orbit or target. You will be all out of wack if you are retrograding against your orbit while trying to land on the surface.
MadYarpen
Member
And one more thing to add is (if I am not mistaken) that your pilot should be levelled up to be able to keep a ship facing retrograde.
E: all this discussion made me realise that my 1st and 2nd stage of ship is a bit of an overkill, with 6 biggest boosters (not a chance to do a natural gravity turn
) in 1st and mainsail engine in 2nd... It gets me to orbit allright, but I guess efficiency isn't the best.CypherSignal
Member
Started playing the game a couple weeks ago and absolutely loving it the whole time. I feel like it'll be a long while until I'm done with this.
I just got to the Mun with a heavy research payload and multi-module rocket, without saves, and really pumped about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6CVt14jiMg
I just got to the Mun with a heavy research payload and multi-module rocket, without saves, and really pumped about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6CVt14jiMg
CypherSignal
Member
Isn't that what orbital refueling platforms are for, though? I feel like I'm going to be sorely tempted to set one up around Kerbal or Mun before I try any inter-planetary activity.
I feel like I'm going to be sorely tempted to set one up around Kerbal or Mun before I try any inter-planetary activity.