• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Kinect and Move: from Vision to Retail...were their respective visions met?

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
I thought it'd be interesting to look back at all the vision/prototype videos we saw of Kinect/Move last year and compare them to the final tech specs that are rolling out to market this holiday season. How close did they come to their original concepts?

Link is below, as well as the full article sans images.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DavidGalindo/20100903/5883/Kinect_and_Move_from_Vision_to_Retail.php

As we near this holiday season, Microsoft and Sony are starting to gear up their retail plans for a battle of motion control peripherals. It was just a year ago at E3 2009 that MS and Sony gave the public their first view of “Natal” and “Sony Motion Controller,” with both giving their pitches at their own conferences.

Now that the official, final tech specs have come out for both devices as they near their shipping date to retail, I thought it would be interesting to go back and see just how close Kinect/Move came to their original visions. I’ll be comparing what we know about motion control now verses what we saw in the concept and tech demos just a year ago.

The first thing to note is that Sony had the advantage of showing no conceptual footage, only tech demos. In that regard those demos were already up and running…there’s not a vision here so much as a foundation for something better and greater. What we didn’t know about the tech demos is whether or not they would be easily applied to games, or how much of the PS3’s processing power it was using up. Kinect, or Natal at the time, chose to show off a bit of the tech but showed a majority of their features via a concept video (a "vision video" as they called it.)

So, let’s start with the first release of the holiday season with Playstation Move…how close did they come to the original E3 presentation?




Playstation Move

Demoed by Richard Marks and Anton Mikhailov of Sony, the Move was showcased via a variety of different tech demos over a ten minute or so presentation at the Sony E3 2009 Conference.


3D Space and Interaction

The Vision: We see the controller being manipulated within a 3D space…backwards and forwards, side to side, in a level of tracking we’ve never quite seen before.
The Reality: Tumble (PSN) has taken the concept and built the game using this kind of precision seen in the demo. While we haven’t seen any object molding/transforming quite like the tech demo, it wouldn’t be outside the realm of possibility to do.



Augmented Reality

The Vision: Using the Playstation Eye’s camera as a video feed, the player sees themselves on the screen…but holding a 3D object tracked in real time. You can rotate it, interact with it via the Move’s buttons and use it as an object within the game space.
The Reality: Probably the only time where the tech demo was transformed nearly flawlessly into an actual game, Start the Party uses these features in a variety of different minigames and party modes.



Body Tracking

The Vision: As Anton walks around the stage, the game (in a first person viewpoint) also follows Anton’s body as he moves close, far, and side to side. He’s not simply stepping slightly in a direction…he’s walking around actively as the Move is being used as the gun/camera orientation.
The Reality: The camera could be implemented easily enough, but the body tracking would be a bit more difficult to do. Is it being done via the Eye’s tracking, or the positioning of the Move itself? Using the Eye would be prone to the usual Eye problems seen in earlier Eye-only games such as difficulty tracking a player in low level light conditions. Using the Move would be a better solution, but can it track depth in the amount that Anton was doing on stage? If it was, that’s rather impressive, but aside from head tracking there hasn’t been any games to utilize this demo in the way it was shown.



Controller Utilization

The Vision: A variety of different Move implementations shown in painting, in an RTS type situation and more.
The Reality: Games like RUSE have taken advantage of the Move, but none of this stuff in the demo was very ahead tech wise; it was more a demonstration of the kind of implementations Move might be able to provide in normal, everyday games.



“Sports” Demo and 1:1 Combat

The Vision: Multiple scenarios in an arena-type environment are shown. There’s archery, blade throwing, and sword/shield swinging.
The Reality: All of these demos have been implemented into Sports Champions. By watching the videos you could say it’s a near perfect port of the tech demo into an actual game, but there are some differences. The sub-millimeter precision in the tech demo has been altered in Sports Champions; while you could alter how far back you can pull your bow in the tech demo, in SC you’re forced to fire at 100% tension every time. The arena battles aren’t quite as 1:1 as the demo was either, but are very close. Were these changes done to make the game friendlier to gamers, or done as a result of the software implementation/changes needed to make the game run as smooth as possible? It’s not quite clear right now, but regardless, it’s still a very strong effort.



Move: Final Thoughts

It’s clear that Sony has been polishing the Move and working with devs in order to give the controller the best support it can get out of the launch gate. It’s quite amazing to see all of the demonstrations shown just a year ago be met right at the release date; it certainly bodes well for all the new tech demos we’ve seen since then. Perhaps Sony has learned from the pie-in-the-sky expectations that the Killzone 2 pre-rendered trailer fiasco caused; no matter how solid the game became graphically, the general media would always compare it to the E3 trailer. Move debuted with fairly high expectations grounded in reality (aka the tech demos running in real time), and met those on launch day. You could argue about the quality of some of those launch games, but regardless, it’s still quite a feat to pull off.






Microsoft’s Kinect

Kinect was debut under the Natal project name at E3 09, showing a few game demos before throwing to a four minute trailer of features. Unlike Move, the footage was all conceptual, but presented as a feature list. So how many of these features were able to come to fruition at launch? And can these features be added down the line?

It’s important to note that this concept video was shown as a perfect 1:1 presentation of the person using Kinect; obviously this can’t be done without some lag with any motion device on the market today, so I’ll be ignoring that aspect in the video.



Voice Communication/Fighting Gameplay

The Vision: The player walks into the living room as the virtual challenger looks on, his head tracking the player’s body as his head moves across. The challenger addresses the player by name, exchanges a few words and then the fight begins. The player dodges the punches left to right, and then kicks in the air as the challenger goes flying.
The Reality: This is our first look at what Kinect might be able to do, and in fact is a very realistic representation of all its features. Kinect can very easily track the players body so that the virtual challenger could turn his head and follow them, and even the fact that the challenger addresses the player by name is very feasible, using a databank of names much like the racing game GRID allowed you to do (by selecting a name, the announcer would say it during certain menu options and scenarios). The small clip of fighting is also easy for Kinect to pull off, using its body tracking capabilities.



Virtual Peripherals

The Vision: A family watches together as a player mimics holding a steering wheel and using shifting/pedal motions. She then pulls into a pit stop, where it’s another player’s turn to jump up and act as a pit crew as they unfasten the lug nuts, place the tire outside the TV area, then grab another one to place back on the car. Then the car races off as the other player gets behind the wheel again.
The Reality: Controlling a car in this manner has been a rather popular tech demo for Kinect, as we’ve seen it implemented in Burnout Paradise, Forza 3 and the launch title Joyride. The pit crew mechanic should be no problem for Kinect as well, except for the player standing and playing the pit game. Kinect seems to have a bit of trouble when the player keeps shifting from a seated to a standing position; the easier and more comfortable solution would simply do the mechanic game while seated. Aside from that, this vision has been easily accomplished.



Body Tracking/Monster Gameplay

The Vision: The player clomps around the room as a giant monster fills the screen, swinging his arms around to swat at planes before yelling, causing the monster to emit a laser beam out of its mouth.
The Reality: Again, most of the mechanics shown here (arm tracking, etc.) can be easily pulled off by Kinect. Even the yelling, while not tracked by Kinect, could be picked up by the microphone on the camera and initiate the laser beam in the game. The only problem is the way the player is walking closer to the TV as the monster walks downtown; Kinect requires a minimum distance away from the TV, moreso than most motion control devices since it has to track the entire body. Getting too close to the TV will result in your head or legs being cut off from the devices, and messing up the tracking in the process.



Full Body Motion Capture

The Vision: Two players face each other in a soccer goal showdown using split screen mode. One player kicks the ball, the other tries to block the shot, but the ball makes it in. Goalllllllllll!
The Reality: No problems here; full body motion tracking is Kinect’s bread and butter, as seen in games like Ubisoft’s Your Shape.



Scanning Real World Objects

The Vision: The player brings his real skateboard into the living room, and tells Kinect to scan as he turns it from back to front. Kinect then imports that skateboard into the actual game, decals and all. The player than does some motion based skateboarding.
The Reality: The video leaves a lot of questions. Did Kinect know it was a skateboard? How did it know what was a skateboard, and what was the background? The answer is, Kinect probably doesn’t know the background from foreground accurately enough to make a 3D representation of it…in fact, no consumer level device can for the foreseeable future. While it’s feasible that Kinect could use pictures as textures on objects, that wouldn’t be anything new from normal web/game cameras, and the downgraded resolution on the final design specs (to 320x240) makes it all the more unlikely that “scanning” objects could ever be accomplished on Kinect. New design specs aside, this was a pretty far goal to reach in the first place.



Facial Recognition/Video Chat and Interaction

The Vision: The player walks up to the TV, waves, and Kinect automatically signs in to the correct user based on facial recognition software. She then chats it up via video to a friend online, and the friend shows a dress she might like by bringing up a menu on the 360. The player grabs the dress with their hand, “throws” it to a picture of their body on the left side of the screen, and models it as the dress/body is rotated on screen.
The Reality: The waving gesture has made it in the launch day features of Kinect, however the facial recognition has changed to the much easier to support voice recognition. Video chat has already been demonstrated with Kinect’s ability to track the player in the room. The friend showing off something she might think her friend might like could easily be added, but the idea of having an accurate 3D model of you and modeling clothes is pretty much another idea in the clouds. While that could never be implemented in the way the video showed, it could be easily done using your avatar and using avatar outfits…and would make a lot more sense, too. But nothing like that has been announced so far.



Voice Recognition/Family Play

The Vision: A family sits closely together on the couch, using their hands as buzzers. The virtual host asks a question, and one family member buzzes in first. They say the answer out loud, the game repeats the answer, and then tells the player they’re correct. The game then switches to another family that is playing the same game online.
The Reality: Voice recognition can be taken as far as Microsoft and other devs are willing to go; everything shown can be done by Kinect. The buzzer gestures might be a bit tougher to implement…Kinect has some problems tracking that many players at once, and in a lighting fast gesture like the buzzer motion, it would have to determine who was first, and who that person is. It’s not insurmountable, but it’s going to be a tough thing to pull off. But then again, there’s nothing here that a controller wouldn’t fix, as none of the stuff shown in this segment is really something that requires Kinect in the first place.



Voice Commands

The Vision: A couple sits on their sofa as the Xbox Dash is navigated using their hands. They find a movie, and say “Play Movie” out loud to Kinect. After the movie is finished, the Xbox is turned off with the “Goodnight” voice command.
The Reality: While voice commands are going to be part of the day one functionality of Kinect, it won’t be used within the normal dashboard…players will have to use a special “Kinect Hub” to use voice commands. The differences of the Hub and the normal Dashboard remains to be seen, but it’s only a matter of time before MS eventually makes the whole navigation experience voice command-able, hopefully.



Kinect: Final Thoughts

Despite a few completely unlikely scenarios, the original concept trailer has been pulled off rather admirably by Kinect. And while launch games might not use a majority of these features, it’s definitely within Kinect’s power to do so when devs find a way to use them. The launch day of Kinect might not have the gee-whiz feeling that Move has been able to accomplish with their tech, but it’ll certainly be an original experience that will draw even more people to the casual side of videogames…and the more people that play and buy games with us, the better.



-----------

Check out my indie game releases at http://www.vertigogaming.net. Thanks for reading!
 
Kinect: Not at all, nothing I was looking forward to (the painting thing they demo'd and some core game support along with dreams of Minority Report navigation) is anywhere to be seen. (besides Child of Eden)

While I think it was mainly because they decided to completely switch gears on the audience, I'm still disappointed.

Move: Yep. From what I gather almost everything they've shown in a demo/early-tech has come to fruition. Good on them as they completely made me switch camps after the most recent E3.

I'm still hoping MS will do something with Kinect that gets me interested as a gamer and not interested as somebody who has a 5 year old in the house that would love this. I don't want to buy it for the 5 year old ya' know? But I still might.

The Move on the other hand looks awesome, while I probably won't buy it at launch the tech that they've showed is solid and I will wait until it a game I really want launches with it.
 

Guevara

Member
I'd love to get a little more backstory on Kinect. Before it was Natal and was the primary product of 3DV what were they promising? I heard rumors that they shopped it to Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft and only Microsoft bought in.
 
flyinpiranha said:
Kinect: Not at all, nothing I was looking forward to (the painting thing they demo'd and some core game support along with dreams of Minority Report navigation) is anywhere to be seen. (besides Child of Eden)

While I think it was mainly because they decided to completely switch gears on the audience, I'm still disappointed.

Move: Yep. From what I gather almost everything they've shown in a demo/early-tech has come to fruition. Good on them as they completely made me switch camps after the most recent E3.

I'm still hoping MS will do something with Kinect that gets me interested as a gamer and not interested as somebody who has a 5 year old in the house that would love this. I don't want to buy it for the 5 year old ya' know? But I still might.

The Move on the other hand looks awesome, while I probably won't buy it at launch the tech that they've showed is solid and I will wait until it a game I really want launches with it.
The downgrade to the camera's resolution (from 640x480 to 320x240) probably had a major impact to many features that Kinect was initially able to do.

And when it comes to Move I feel that if the lag is as bad as it seems in some videos, it's definitely going to be a so-so experience.
 
flyinpiranha said:
Kinect: Not at all, nothing I was looking forward to (the painting thing they demo'd and some core game support along with dreams of Minority Report navigation) is anywhere to be seen. (besides Child of Eden)

While I think it was mainly because they decided to completely switch gears on the audience, I'm still disappointed.

Move: Yep. From what I gather almost everything they've shown in a demo/early-tech has come to fruition. Good on them as they completely made me switch camps after the most recent E3.

I'm still hoping MS will do something with Kinect that gets me interested as a gamer and not interested as somebody who has a 5 year old in the house that would love this. I don't want to buy it for the 5 year old ya' know? But I still might.

The Move on the other hand looks awesome, while I probably won't buy it at launch the tech that they've showed is solid and I will wait until it a game I really want launches with it.


This. Nothing I was excited about for Kinect seems to be coming to fruition. So I am not buying one. However, I will be getting a Move on launch.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Kinect was always little more than a marketing scam; true bait & switch, and even worse than what we usually see in the game industry. Marketing dreamed up the Kinect concept videos and fake demonstrations, and I'd expect those were based on little more than vague overviews of what the tech /might/ be able to do.

Move, sure; I mean, its tech is actually down to earth and reasonable. Nintendo's been beta testing it for five years now :lol
 
jett said:
Move delivered tech-wise, games-wise it's disappointing.

Kinect delivered shit.


There are more than enough games on launch for the Move. After all, it is a launch. It is the promise of 'core' game support however, that has me most excited. I am definitely going to be trying MAG out with move support. I will also play heavy rain again just to see it in motion.
 

stuminus3

Banned
Move, sure. Nintendo already did it. Move is just essentially the same thing but for the higher-end consumer. At least Sony seem to know who they're trying to sell it to.

Kinect went from being one of the most interesting things I'd ever seen to being something that makes me rage a little more ever single day.
 
stuminus3 said:
Move, sure. Nintendo already did it. Move is just essentially the same thing but for the higher-end consumer. At least Sony seem to know who they're trying to sell it to.

Kinect went from being one of the most interesting things I'd ever seen to being something that makes me rage a little more ever single day.

Ha, yeah. I was so hopeful for Kinect (and there still is a little glimmer of hope ... right next to the glimmer of a tear) to show me something worthwhile as I know they are just trying to push it into the family living room at this point.

Move on the other hand did take a pretty safe route but at least they delivered on almost every promise. While the lag might be an issue like was stated I don't see it being any worse than the Wii.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
AndyMoogle said:
The downgrade to the camera's resolution (from 640x480 to 320x240) probably had a major impact to many features that Kinect was initially able to do.

And when it comes to Move I feel that if the lag is as bad as it seems in some videos, it's definitely going to be a so-so experience.
Is there a reason Kinect has a lower resolution Camera then the DSi? I mean, how much more can it cost for a camera at the original resolution? Does it use some super fancy camera?
 

RavenFox

Banned
AndyMoogle said:
The downgrade to the camera's resolution (from 640x480 to 320x240) probably had a major impact to many features that Kinect was initially able to do.

And when it comes to Move I feel that if the lag is as bad as it seems in some videos, it's definitely going to be a so-so experience.
What lag? TTP's review has put that BS to rest.
 
Move I'm buying for myself because I already have the system and camera.

Kinect I'm buying for my middle aged sister and her two small kids.
 
flyinpiranha said:
While the lag might be an issue like was stated I don't see it being any worse than the Wii.


The lag seems to be more software driven than hardware at this point. Unless there are articles I am unaware of.
 
Kinect is a highly-ambitious piece of software that appears to fail at matching this ambition with execution. The end product is something much more watered down than what was initially promised.

Move is almost the polar opposite. It's a blatant copy that sets out on refining the foundations laid by Nintendo. To that end, its creative vision seems to be met - it's just that that vision is far from creative.

Both irk me - Kinect for it's failure to produce anything meaningful, and Move for its genuine lack of any ambition or originality whatsoever. Move definitely appears to be the better piece of software though, and its implementation in traditional games looks far more promising than the software that Kinect appears to be driving.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Drkirby said:
Is there a reason Kinect has a lower resolution Camera then the DSi? I mean, how much more can it cost for a camera at the original resolution? Does it use some super fancy camera?
Originally Kinect was going to do all the processing, and just send the 360 the data. MS decided to take out some of those components from Kinect and had the 360 process the data instead.

It doesn't have to do with the camera, but more of how much processing power Kinect will take away from the 360. To keep it down a bit lower, they halved the resolution.

_Alkaline_ said:
Move is almost the polar opposite. It's a blatant copy that sets out on refining the foundations laid by Nintendo. To that end, its creative vision seems to be met - it's just that that vision is far from creative.
It's not a blatant copy, it's a refinement and evolution of motion control. There's nothing copycat about the tech at all. Games are a different discussion.
 

El-Suave

Member
Move's vision is not realized as long as the tech demos of Marks & Co. are more interesting than the actual games!

Still, it's miles ahead of Kinect in that regard after its downgrades over the past year.
 

distrbnce

Banned
So the Kinect part doesn't really compare it to launch games like the Move comparison does.

I know Kinect is still a couple months out, but they HAVE been showing some games. I was kinda expecting an Apples to Apples thing, not a Apples to "Well, it's still not IMPOSSIBLE that they'll do what they showed us."
 

Triple U

Banned
_Alkaline_ said:
Kinect is a highly-ambitious piece of software that appears to fail at matching this ambition with execution. The end product is something much more watered down than what was initially promised.

Move is almost the polar opposite. It's a blatant copy that sets out on refining the foundations laid by Nintendo. To that end, its creative vision seems to be met - it's just that that vision is far from creative.

Both irk me - Kinect for it's failure to produce anything meaningful, and Move for its genuine lack of any ambition or originality whatsoever. Move definitely appears to be the better piece of software though, and its implementation in traditional games looks far more promising than the software that Kinect appears to be driving.
Nintendo doesn't own the monopoly on motion gaming its not a blatant copy.
 

Mako_Drug

Member
Kinect no longer scans in real world items for use in game, Milo is gone (some may say kinectimals represents whats left but Milo as a concept was a promise of a presumably revolutionary leap in AI) and I can't remember if that painting app still exists or not.

Those were the things that wowed me when Natal was debued at E3, none remain.
 

Vinci

Danish
Triple U said:
Nintendo doesn't own the monopoly on motion gaming its not a blatant copy.

Look at the design of the thing sometime and tell me it's not blatantly based upon the Wii remote and Nunchuk. In other words, you're taking this the wrong way. Nowhere in his post did Alkaline say that Nintendo owns motion control - it's the design of the hardware that makes the connection between the two obvious, not what they do.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
shinnn said:
the article is comparing Move tech demos vs Project Natal concept advertising.. lol
There were never any Move concept videos, so I had to work with what I had. I mentioned that many times in the article. :)

distrbnce said:
So the Kinect part doesn't really compare it to launch games like the Move comparison does.

I know Kinect is still a couple months out, but they HAVE been showing some games. I was kinda expecting an Apples to Apples thing, not a Apples to "Well, it's still not IMPOSSIBLE that they'll do what they showed us."
Well, it was kinda different to compare the two. Move had tech demos that were clearly taken from demo to game. Kinect was more conceptual; there's not much to say about it's body tracking other than "it works" and point out some of the more specific ideas (like Joyride).
 

ghst

thanks for the laugh
kinect looks like a failed attempt at doing something new.
move looks like a failed attempt at doing something new.
 
The problem of Kinect is that MS let the hype grow and grow, convincing hardcore that it was also for them and that all was possible with kinect.

But it was a Eyetoy+ when it was announced and is still a Eyetoy+ now. I had a lot of discussions here with people that though that next Halo could be fully managed with Kinect.

And, it's ok, PS2 made Eyetoy past gen and nobody complained because they didn't sold this as the future of gaming. They said "eh, here you have games for other people, and look, here you have God of War".

And is what it should do MS. Avoid this "this is hardcore too" (Tsunoda just said that Sonic Free Riders is the evidence that Kinect titles would appeal to the core gamer). Say, ok, here is Kinect for your child or gf, and i have this new Halo and Gears, and next year we'll launch this, this and this".
 
TheExecutive said:
The lag seems to be more software driven than hardware at this point. Unless there are articles I am unaware of.

Let's hope. I haven't seen enough to really make an educated guess but it seems to be fine with most hands-on impressions.
 
chubigans said:
It's not a blatant copy, it's a refinement and evolution of motion control. There's nothing copycat about the tech at all. Games are a different discussion.

Certainly it's a refinement of motion control, and Nintendo did not invent motion control.

But Nintendo did bring it to the masses this generation AND were ultra-successful with it. Funny how Sony appeared to show little interesting motion gaming, then Nintendo introduces their plan for the then-Revolution, Sony add a half-hearted motion sensor to their Dualshock design, and four years later they're introducing a new peripheral that bears a striking resemblance to the Wii Remote in both function and design.

I'm not saying that Sony never had any plans to go with motion control this generation, but it definitely appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to Nintendo success. And, let's face it, Sony have done it in the past. It's nothing surprising and that's why it's disappointing.

Their actual direction with Move is far more promising (and more balanced) than what Microsoft is doing with Kinect, though I'd argue that if Kinect managed to meet its potential (it won't) then it would be a much more exciting product than Move, simply because it's breaking new ground. I'm not saying constant innovation is critical, but there's no doubt that Move is very unoriginal and lacks creative ambition.
 

Vinci

Danish
_Alkaline_ said:
I'm not saying that Sony never had any plans to go with motion control this generation, but it definitely appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to Nintendo success. And, let's face it, Sony have done it in the past. It's nothing surprising and that's why it's disappointing.

I agreed with you before about Move being based, design-wise, on the Wii Remote and Nunchuk, but... I don't see how this fact is disappointing. As you said, Sony has used ideas from Nintendo and others in the past - as has Nintendo and others - but they've almost always improved upon what was there before. Move appears to do the same. Yes, we could have all wanted something more revolutionary than evolutionary, but that's not really the game Sony is playing and not one they've been especially strong at. So the fact that it's not surprising... I don't know, I guess I just don't feel disappointed by it. Its origins are pretty easy to guess, but as long as it works and works really well, I don't care.
 

sajj316

Member
_Alkaline_ said:
Kinect is a highly-ambitious piece of software that appears to fail at matching this ambition with execution. The end product is something much more watered down than what was initially promised.

Move is almost the polar opposite. It's a blatant copy that sets out on refining the foundations laid by Nintendo. To that end, its creative vision seems to be met - it's just that that vision is far from creative.

Both irk me - Kinect for it's failure to produce anything meaningful, and Move for its genuine lack of any ambition or originality whatsoever. Move definitely appears to be the better piece of software though, and its implementation in traditional games looks far more promising than the software that Kinect appears to be driving.

I guess you can say Move is Nintendo's creative vision realized.
 

Triple U

Banned
_Alkaline_ said:
Certainly it's a refinement of motion control, and Nintendo did not invent motion control.

But Nintendo did bring it to the masses this generation AND were ultra-successful with it. Funny how Sony appeared to show little interesting motion gaming, then Nintendo introduces their plan for the then-Revolution, Sony add a half-hearted motion sensor to their Dualshock design, and four years later they're introducing a new peripheral that bears a striking resemblance to the Wii Remote in both function and design.

I'm not saying that Sony never had any plans to go with motion control this generation, but it definitely appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to Nintendo success. And, let's face it, Sony have done it in the past. It's nothing surprising and that's why it's disappointing.

Their actual direction with Move is far more promising (and more balanced) than what Microsoft is doing with Kinect, though I'd argue that if Kinect managed to meet its potential (it won't) then it would be a much more exciting product than Move, simply because it's breaking new ground. I'm not saying constant innovation is critical, but there's no doubt that Move is very unoriginal and lacks creative ambition.
Do we have to keep posting that vid of Marks from the ps2 days with the eyetoy? The fact of it is that move has been in the works for a long time and not until Nintendo had success with the wii did they decide to pull the trigger. The nunchuk is without a doubt following Nintendos model but thats about it . Its really not that hard to understand....
 

shwimpy

Member
sajj316 said:
I guess you can say Move is Nintendo's creative vision realized.

Sure. I love motion control and the Wii just isn't accurate enough for my liking. I really hope third parties utilize the tech of Move to its fullest potential.

Still kicking myself for buying 4 motion+'s... what a waste of money.
 
sajj316 said:
I guess you can say Move is Nintendo's creative vision realized.

Given the absurd success of the Wii, the introduction of millions of new gamers, and the creation of some truly fantastic software, I think Nintendo's creative vision has already been realised.

Certainly Move cleans out and polishes some of the rough edges of Nintendo's motion control technology, which is no doubt a solid drawcard for both existing audiences and new gamers (moreso the former - I have doubts that the latter will buy the system in droves just because of Move), but I wouldn't say that the Wii failed to achieve Nintendo's creative vision.

That is, unless your vision and their vision differ significantly. The Wii Remote does lack some precision, particularly in its motion controls (the IR control on the other hand is quite excellent), but I would say that the move of a major gaming company to bring in motion controls as a standard control device was a pretty bold one that deserves to be applauded, particularly given just how well the system has performed (both commercially and in terms of software - I'm talking first party software here).
 

distrbnce

Banned
_Alkaline_ said:
Certainly it's a refinement of motion control, and Nintendo did not invent motion control.

But Nintendo did bring it to the masses this generation AND were ultra-successful with it. Funny how Sony appeared to show little interesting motion gaming, then Nintendo introduces their plan for the then-Revolution, Sony add a half-hearted motion sensor to their Dualshock design, and four years later they're introducing a new peripheral that bears a striking resemblance to the Wii Remote in both function and design.

I'm not saying that Sony never had any plans to go with motion control this generation, but it definitely appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to Nintendo success. And, let's face it, Sony have done it in the past. It's nothing surprising and that's why it's disappointing.

Their actual direction with Move is far more promising (and more balanced) than what Microsoft is doing with Kinect, though I'd argue that if Kinect managed to meet its potential (it won't) then it would be a much more exciting product than Move, simply because it's breaking new ground. I'm not saying constant innovation is critical, but there's no doubt that Move is very unoriginal and lacks creative ambition.

All evidence points to Sony working on and developing this technology for what looks like years longer than Nintendo's earliest consideration, isn't that correct?
 

Vinci

Danish
_Alkaline_ said:
Given the absurd success of the Wii, the introduction of millions of new gamers, and the creation of some truly fantastic software, I think Nintendo's creative vision has already been realised.

Exactly. Nintendo's creative vision wasn't encased within the technology itself, but in what that technology allowed them to create on a market level. Which it wholly accomplished.

EDIT: In essence, people keep forgetting that Nintendo is not a technology company.
 

BSTF

this post rates 1/10
Kinects completely failed to live up to expectations. It doesn't offer much more than the PS Eye at 3x the price. I don't know what the hell Microsoft was thinking.
 
distrbnce said:
All evidence points to Sony working on and developing this technology for what looks like years longer than Nintendo's earliest consideration, isn't that correct?

And yet interesting that we didn't see the technology until 4 years after the Wii came out and confirmed that motion controls can exist - and thrive - as a standard means of control.

Nintendo took the risk. Sony are now polishing up the dirty spots.

I'm looking forward to Move - moreso than Kinect because the software that supports it appeals to me. And also, unlike Kinect, it actually seems to work properly. But there's no doubt that it's a low-risk "me too!" method that bears nowhere near the same level of ambition as Nintendo's and even Microsoft's efforts.

Like I said, I'm not saying that you constantly need to innovate - refining is good. But Move scrapes the bare minimum of creativity.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
Certainly it's a refinement of motion control, and Nintendo did not invent motion control.

But Nintendo did bring it to the masses this generation AND were ultra-successful with it. Funny how Sony appeared to show little interesting motion gaming, then Nintendo introduces their plan for the then-Revolution, Sony add a half-hearted motion sensor to their Dualshock design, and four years later they're introducing a new peripheral that bears a striking resemblance to the Wii Remote in both function and design.

I'm not saying that Sony never had any plans to go with motion control this generation, but it definitely appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to Nintendo success. And, let's face it, Sony have done it in the past. It's nothing surprising and that's why it's disappointing.

Their actual direction with Move is far more promising (and more balanced) than what Microsoft is doing with Kinect, though I'd argue that if Kinect managed to meet its potential (it won't) then it would be a much more exciting product than Move, simply because it's breaking new ground. I'm not saying constant innovation is critical, but there's no doubt that Move is very unoriginal and lacks creative ambition.


These posts bother me. Who cares if Sony is taking the motion control idea from Nintendo? They are offering much more to me than Nintendo ever did. I for one am excited about decent graphics, shooters that arent really shitty ports, and a soon to be breadth of games on the PSN. All on top of a controller that works better than the wiimote. They are basically doing NOW what Nintendo is probably GOING to do next generation.
 

cgcg

Member
That was a lame shit article. With the Move portion they pretty much named a game in each category with its pros and cons while with Kinect it's basically it's "should be able to" "could be" with no mentioning of specific games.
 

Vinci

Danish
TheExecutive said:
These posts bother me. Who cares if Sony is taking the motion control idea from Nintendo? They are offering much more to me than Nintendo ever did. I for one am excited about decent graphics, shooters that arent really shitty ports, and a soon to be breadth of games on the PSN. They are basically doing NOW what Nintendo is probably GOING to do next generation.

If you're expecting Nintendo to make shooters, good luck.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
_Alkaline_ said:
And yet interesting that we didn't see the technology until 4 years after the Wii came out and confirmed that motion controls can exist - and thrive - as a standard means of control.
Actually we saw it six years before the Wii was released (see previous post).

As Triple U said, it was the Wii's success that caused Sony to pull the trigger on tech they had been refining for almost a decade.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
I'd argue that if Kinect managed to meet its potential (it won't) then it would be a much more exciting product than Move, simply because it's breaking new ground. I'm not saying constant innovation is critical, but there's no doubt that Move is very unoriginal and lacks creative ambition.

Yeah, before when it was Natal I thought it seemed like a much better concept. After E3 I've started looking forward to Move a little more because it actually sticks much closer to what it was introduced as.
 

distrbnce

Banned
jett said:
Move delivered tech-wise, games-wise it's disappointing.

Kinect delivered shit.

This sort of sentiment must be directed at the Move-Only games, right? It's completely dismissing the easy integration with real, core games.

It seems like you could get total satisfaction out of Move without even buying a Move-Only game, so it appears to be a moot point.
 

longdi

Banned
The author has been too kind to Kinect. I have serious doubts that Kinect can match "project natal" in accuracy, fluidity and resolution. "project natal" is microsoft's motorstorm cgi trailer.

Move came and delivered, nothing as fantastical/futuristic as project natal demo reel but it gives me a good feeling to try out motion control. at usd130 for 1 eye, 2 moves and a pack in game, quite cheap, but then the announced games are not worth full price. PSN prices then i would buy more Move games. :D
 

Triple U

Banned
tigeroreilly said:
F you for your profile pic man!
Not my choice my man. Stay out of the nba thread...

And yet interesting that we didn't see the technology until 4 years after the Wii came out and confirmed that motion controls can exist - and thrive - as a standard means of control.

Nintendo took the risk. Sony are now polishing up the dirty spots.

I'm looking forward to Move - moreso than Kinect because the software that supports it appeals to me. And also, unlike Kinect, it actually seems to work properly. But there's no doubt that it's a low-risk "me too!" method that bears nowhere near the same level of ambition as Nintendo's and even Microsoft's efforts.

Like I said, I'm not saying that you constantly need to innovate - refining is good. But Move scrapes the bare minimum of creativity.
Dude wtf are you talking about? Chubs posted the vid i was talking about and you can see its clearly the same basic idea for what move is today hell even uses one of the same tech demos used today. The only thing sony lacked was the balls to bring it to market this is still very much their idea that they invented...
 
Vinci said:
If you're expecting Nintendo to make shooters, good luck.

Lol, no I am not. However, I do believe that a great use of these types of controls can be shooters. Nintendo's best games this generation have been games that hardly use the controls that were so definitive of the console itself. Maybe that says something about the nature of the controls and maybe that says something about the types of games being made for the controls. In either case, I am excited to see another publisher take a stab at it, especially Sony. It has a fundamental different philosophy than Nintendo and a HUGE amount of studios to back that philosophy up.
 
Top Bottom