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[lightchris]

I just lost alot of interest...

I already lost some interest after the last E3 trailers.. just went over the top with too much of scripted action sequences. Of course they might have selected them in order to wow the audience (didn't work for me), but autoheal just fits the image of a wannabe Uncharted clone, not a survival based game.
When the game was first announced I thought it'd going to be something more original.

 

[Shinta]

You could swim in Assassin's Creed 2 and could not in the first Assassin's Creed. Both had multiple bodies of water -- unlike, say, a game about cowboys.

And people cared!

I don't even remember swimming in either game, and I'm struggling to think of a way swimming dramatically improved AC2. Could you even dive underwater, or just tread around the surface? Also wasn't the first game in a desert-like, arid area as well?

A better comparison would be Indiana Jones I think. In all 3 movies, I think he only swam in a tomb one time in the third movie when the rats ran at them and they had to go under the coffin for air. He swam in the first movie when he snuck on the battleship, but that was in the middle of the ocean. I just think it's a really silly thing to get this upset about. People are just looking for any reason to hate this game.

 

[Glass Rebel]

At least there are references and twists!

It's good that Square-Enix games drop in price fast.

 

[Tash]

I don't trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesn't die!

lol

 

[subversus]

You could swim in Assassin's Creed 2 and could not in the first Assassin's Creed. Both had multiple bodies of water -- unlike, say, a game about cowboys.

And people cared!

really? I can't remember a single post mentioning it.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Yes and before that concept art and details were released when it was originally going to be a very different project. It was originally about lara marooned on a Japenese island that she could explore. The island was inhabitad by strange creatures from japenese folklore. It was open world with metroidvania elements and it would have had a survival horror slant.

Then somewhere along the way they decided to just make an uncharted clone

Okay, I though I remembered some concept art with claw and tentacle chicks, I thought I was going crazy. Shame, would have loved to play this version.

 

[Canis lupus]

Regen health is an industry standard now.

 

[Lime]

Hilarious quote: "Character can actually do X, just not in the game". I have no idea how this Karl Stewart guy still has a job after the stuff he has pulled in marketing this game.

http://youtu.be/0DAPD4x4TOw

Takes a shotgun to the face -> Survives -> Kills heavily armed Russian forces with a fucking bow.

If they had made it a stealth game with the bow instead of this Gears of War-type of shit, then the conflict would make sense. But now it's just straight-up Bow vs. Shotgun, which implicitly is fucking ridiculous.

 

[diamount]

I don't trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesn't die!

Wow, there have been so many innuendos relating to this game I'm unable to discern anything related to certain female bodily functions.

 

[Sojgat]

I don't even remember swimming in either game, and I'm struggling to think of a way swimming dramatically improved AC2. Could you even dive underwater, or just tread around the surface?

A better comparison would be Indiana Jones I think. In all 3 movies, I think he only swam in a tomb one time in the third movie when the rats ran at them and they had to go under the coffin for air. He swam in the first movie when he snuck on the battleship, but that was in the middle of the ocean. I just think it's a really silly thing to get this upset about. People are just looking for any reason to hate this game.

Swimming has been a core part of navigating the environment since the first game. Removing mechanics that have been featured across 3 generations of consoles is never the way to impress fans of your franchise.

 

[JaseC]

really? I can't remember a single post mentioning it.

I don't know why I'm doing the work for you, but as an example there are two or three posts in this old screenshot thread. Regardless, the issue people have with the original game isn't so much that you can't swim, but rather one assassination mission in particular has you crossing a rather large body of water via platforming and you're desynchronised if you fall. Outside of that singular mission, the ability to navigate through water isn't neither necessary nor desired at all.

Anywho, the crux of the matter vis-a-vis Tomb Raider is:

Swimming has been a core part of navigating the environment since the first game. Removing mechanics that have been featured across 3 generations of consoles is never the way to impress fans of your franchise.

 

[Squire]

I think of a single game where I enjoyed swimming. But it sounds more like she can (as the OP says) they just didn't put a scenario where she would need to in this particular game. Fine by me. The rest sounds good, too.

 

[Saty]

Missed opportunity for more XP-bars nonsense!

Drown. Get 500 XP.
Find Medikit. Get 100 XP.
Use Medikit. Get 150 XP.

Why are developers still using a full-on regen health system when a better option is already established? Segmented health system should be the norm for every game that doesn't go the no-regn medkit-only way. All the advantages of regular regen but curbing the downsides.

 

[kunonabi]

Missed opportunity for more XP-bars nonsense!

Drown. Get 500 XP.
Find Medikit. Get 100 XP.
Use Medikit. Get 150 XP.

Why are developers still using a full-on regen health system when a better option is already established? Segmented health system should be the norm for every game that doesn't go the no-regn medkit-only way. All the advantages of regular regen but curbing the downsides.

Does it even matter when you get checkpoints at every turn?

 

[Arla]

It took three iterations of GTA before we could swim, Altair couldn't swim. I haven't read the thread but I hope this doesn't turn into some sexist argument. Also 12/15hrs is the length of RE4 and nobody has an issue with that. Only thing legit complaint is regen health.

 

[Gsak]

So, basically what they say is: "You want her to be a proper survivor (with regenerative health, mind you) and swim? Why, sure, give us money by buying the game, dlc and what-have-you and she will. In the sequel"?

 

[toddhunter]

The bigger question is, can you climb up on a ledge, keep your buttons held down and do a hand stand?

Because if not...

 

[dc89]

I was really looking forward to this. But.... you can't swim, if she can't swim...

By all rights she should be already dead, she falls into stormy seas in the CGI trailer.

 

[Piers]

Good. No horrible swimming segments.

Yeah, I kind of agree. I appreciate that it's an obvious element to Lara, but I prefer GTA when falling in water killed you.

 

[Gsak]

Why are you guys surprised? This tactic is very, very old. They won't give you all the skills in the first game. How will they justify the introduction of new elements in the sequels?

 

[patapuf]

so no swimming, regen health, auto-platforming.....

it looks like exploration of the island will be really dangerous. It will be a struggle to survive.

 

[Shtof]

TR: Underworld had some of the best swimming in a game ever. And now this...

 

[chickdigger802]

What a shame. That last tomb raider game had one delicious wetsuit.

 

[luffeN]

What is not to get about the swimming comment? There will be no underwater levels or whatever on this island. Yes, I know, it is surrounded by water, but you will not be able to go in there it seems. Maybe there are humongous piranha in the sea.

 

[Corleth the Fey]

The last thing I want to do is hate on a Tomb Raider game - I'm Wainwright's TR fanboy apprentice. But NO SWIMMING, seriously? It's an essential part of the environmental traversal in these games. The fear of swimming into the unknown providing some of TR's best atmospheric thrills.

At every turn this is looking more and more like a step too far away from the greatness, and step toward the mediocre me too, dull gray centre of the focus tested mainstream.

Where are the puzzles? Afraid to spoil the two the game features? Or did Karl Prick of Marketing deem puzzles and tombs too unsavory promotional material?

What to do Gaffers? What if it is Lara Croft's Uncharted. Do I buy on release and hope that they make a sequel that counts? Or ignore/buy pre owned down the line and see one of gamings greatest gifts wither and die if others think like I?

To the poster earlier in this thread expecting more freedom from a modern game compared to an old one. Quite the opposite is occurring - too many games have given up freedom for pretty graphics. Can't publishers see that the Red Deads, GTA's and Skyrim have this freedom to a large degree and still sell gangbusters.

Well whatever this turns out to be - I'll always have Tomb Raider Anniversary. Thanks for that at least Crystal Dynamics.

 

[clockpunk]

Oh... ... ... I can't say I like the decision to include a regenrative ability.

And swimming/diving certainly did have its part in the franchise.

That news has diminshed some of the excitement I have had for new TR, if I am honest.

Oh well... :-/

 

[Visualante2]

There's no cover based shooting underwater, clearly a waste of everyone's time.

Maybe you have to level her up to make her swim

DLC swimsuit

 

[Gsak]

What to do Gaffers? What if it is Lara Croft's Uncharted.

BINGO!

 

[SJRB]

I can't believe this game still isn't out yet.

 

[Jackano]

I heard she can swim NAKED if you do the right code sequence as quick as possible on the little platform above the water in the last level.

 

[Enjay]

Swimming was the worst part of Tomb Raider. Next you guys will get mad over a new Soul Reaver with no swimming. Fuck swimming.

I read this post in Charlie Murphy's voice.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Yes and before that concept art and details were released when it was originally going to be a very different project. It was originally about lara marooned on a Japenese island that she could explore. The island was inhabitad by strange creatures from japenese folklore. It was open world with metroidvania elements and it would have had a survival horror slant.

Then somewhere along the way they decided to just make an uncharted clone

You guys do realize that this is probably still in the game, right? The island they shipwreck on is off the coast of Japan, and there's some sort of fucked up insane mysterious cult on the island that seems to dabble in human sacrifice. Plus, I'm pretty sure I saw a video of one of Lara's crewmates coming upon some mysterious ancient markers before the cult got a hold of them.

I'm pretty sure this will still be part of the game. Pretty sure.

I'm still excited for the game. I was in from the moment I heard that it would be a darker more horror oriented adventure... and they haven't said anything say that this is not the case. It's still an M-rated game, that much I know. It's pretty dark and violent based on some of the videos. To me, it kinda feels like Uncharted set on a Lost-esque island with presumably more horror elements.

Which I dig, to be honest. I really hope they get the horror aspect across. I like horror adventure.

 

[Micerider]

You don't understand! She is weak....so you'd want to protect her from harms that she can suffer without any short-term impact whatsoever. Thanks auto-regen for taking the care we won't!

I'll wait to see it in action, but that seems pretty conflicting with their main purpose.

How am I suppose to care if her wounds are healing up with magic regenerative auto-spells?

 

[UrbanRats]

I'd like more exploration too. But most of the posters here are ignoring everything that looks amazing about this game, and focusing on only the bad. We don't really know how much exploration the game has yet, and we don't really know what the puzzles will be like.

Tbh i don't see a lot that i would consider "amazing".
All i see is an Uncharted wanna be, without the same level of polish and variety (so far) and that is not exciting.
And we're at square one with the puzzle thing: SHOW US.
If there really is something Tomb Rider-y in this game, show it to us, or are we supposed to be excited based on mere brand recognition?

And there is no Tomb Raider fan consensus that said less combat is what everyone wants. So far this Tomb Raider has generated more interest than the last couple combined. All I'm saying is that people should keep an open mind, think of the series long term and what they could accomplish in future games, and maybe try it or read a review before completely making up their mind.

I visited several Tomb Raider communities over the years, being a fan of the franchise myself, and that's what i've almost always seen, over and over.
Those who wanted more shooting and scripted stuff, already moved on to Uncharted for their fix.
And sure, this game has generated more buzz being pushed as the grand reboot, with CGI trailer, new Lara design etc etc, of course it would move more interest than the more mundane sequel that was Underworld.
I mean i'm the first to admit that the series was getting stale and needed a big refresh, but that doesn't mean *any* refresh would do.
I have certain elements of Tomb Raider i love, and those are the elements that made me a fan in the first place and kept me coming back to it; those elements seem to have been thrown out the window, so far.
I keep an open mind, i always try to do that, but that doesn't mean i have to swallow everything they'll do with the franchise; so far it's doing basically all the wrong things, to achieve what i consider is an ideal Tomb Raider.

People are just trying to tear this game down for sport now after a string of over-inflated bad publicity. A lot of it is just irrational mob hatred and bandwagoning. Tomb Raider was hardly a sacred series before this game.

I can't answer for other people, but i assure you that i'm well past the "rape" debacle and the "protect Lara" jokes.
The things that worry me, are all gameplay and game design related.

EDIT: And to be clear, i was very excited for this reboot, up until a bit before E3, when more details started to creep out.

 

[NZNova]

I feel the need to protect Lara Croft from this publisher.

 

[The Return of]

Interesting, I honestly would have never asked about swimming or health regen. To me swimming just seemed like an obvious thing to put in the game and health regen doesn't make sense to me with the whole survival aspects. I could understand if you only regenerated a bit, but you can't get full health unless you eat or use healing items.

 

[JaseC]

You guys do realize that this is probably still in the game, right? The island they shipwreck on is off the coast of Japan, and there's some sort of fucked up insane mysterious cult on the island that seems to dabble in human sacrifice. Plus, I'm pretty sure I saw a video of one of Lara's crewmates coming upon some mysterious ancient markers before the cult got a hold of them.

I'm pretty sure this will still be part of the game. Pretty sure.

That's all well and good, but the open-world nature with Metroidvania trimmings seems to have been tossed aside for a far more linear/"cinematic" approach, which is something I consider to be unfortunate. That said...

I'm still excited for the game. I was in from the moment I heard that it would be a darker more horror oriented adventure... and they haven't said anything say that this is not the case. It's still an M-rated game, that much I know. It's pretty dark and violent based on some of the videos. To me, it kinda feels like Uncharted set on a Lost-esque island with presumably more horror elements.

Which I dig, to be honest. I really hope they get the horror aspect across. I like horror adventure.

...this is also what maintains my interest.

 

[tsab]

So we need to protect her from the water

Spoiler

am I late?

 

[jimi_dini]

How can you not swim, Lara!?

So that you can also protect her from drowning.

EDIT: beaten goddamnit

 

[Wazzim]

I can already smell the swimming dlc.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Every Tomb Raider has had swimming. Seems like a stupid idea to take it out.

Honestly, I don't mind. Swimming sections are usually not fun in any game.

 

[fallagin]

In part 2 she learns how to swim through the protective and guiding hand of the player.

 

[denshuu]

Swimming has been a core part of navigating the environment since the first game. Removing mechanics that have been featured across 3 generations of consoles is never the way to impress fans of your franchise.

I don't think any of us need to pretend that there exist fans of this franchise.

They're making a new Tomb Raider game, not trying to cater to some imaginary group of people who still like it after Underworld and the Core Designs travesties.

 

[Jamie OD]

I have a bad feeling that "Character can do x, but just not in this game" is going to become the next big meme on GAF.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I have a bad feeling that "Character can do x, but just not in this game" is going to become the next big meme on GAF.

Lara Croft can raid tombs...


...just not in this game.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I hate swimming sections with a hate hotter than 10000 suns, so these are great news. As for regenerating health, it is a sad reality of this generation. One that we made true by buying into it.

nobody buys games because they have regen.

She just massacred a half dozen armed guys in the video linked a few posts back, stabbing one in the throat pretty brutally.

"stupid frail woman in need of protection." I don't see it.

I'd like more exploration too. But most of the posters here are ignoring everything that looks amazing about this game, and focusing on only the bad. We don't really know how much exploration the game has yet, and we don't really know what the puzzles will be like.

And there is no Tomb Raider fan consensus that said less combat is what everyone wants. So far this Tomb Raider has generated more interest than the last couple combined. All I'm saying is that people should keep an open mind, think of the series long term and what they could accomplish in future games, and maybe try it or read a review before completely making up their mind.

People are just trying to tear this game down for sport now after a string of over-inflated bad publicity. A lot of it is just irrational mob hatred and bandwagoning. Tomb Raider was hardly a sacred series before this game.

people here have seen this same song and dance across other games and other genres, there's a sixth sense when you know a game is going to be shit. and how do you know for sure that this game has garnered more attention than the previous two games combined? unless you mean the negative news (which was well warranted) and where's the good stuff? because the bad is winning so far.

you couldn't swim in Red Dead too. No one cared.

But I had fun reading this thread.

red dead was in the desert.

Wow, there have been so many innuendos relating to this game I'm unable to discern anything related to certain female bodily functions.

*sigh* it's from south park....

 

[jaxword]

I heard she can swim NAKED if you do the right code sequence as quick as possible on the little platform above the water in the last level.

Yeah my uncle who works at Nintendo told me the Boob Raider code.

 

[UrbanRats]

Honestly, I don't mind. Swimming sections are usually not fun in any game.

Tomb Raider Anniversary (better than 1) did some great things with swimming, to be frank.

Neptune's chamber for example was great.
The whole "Cistern" level was amazing, one of my favorites from the series, and it was all based on water.

Underworld also had breathtaking underwater levels, both the opening in the Mediterranean sea, and the closing one in the Artic.

 

[tsab]

Probably it's Gaf's fault, whining about the Water Temple in OoT. Are you happy now?

 

[sleepykyo]

You guys do realize that this is probably still in the game, right? The island they shipwreck on is off the coast of Japan, and there's some sort of fucked up insane mysterious cult on the island that seems to dabble in human sacrifice. Plus, I'm pretty sure I saw a video of one of Lara's crewmates coming upon some mysterious ancient markers before the cult got a hold of them.

I'm pretty sure this will still be part of the game. Pretty sure.

I'm still excited for the game. I was in from the moment I heard that it would be a darker more horror oriented adventure... and they haven't said anything say that this is not the case. It's still an M-rated game, that much I know. It's pretty dark and violent based on some of the videos. To me, it kinda feels like Uncharted set on a Lost-esque island with presumably more horror elements.

Which I dig, to be honest. I really hope they get the horror aspect across. I like horror adventure.

So it is just like Indiana Jones and Uncharted where it starts off normal then the supernatural creeps in.