-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Late to the Crappy: KOTOR 1&2
- Thread starter Dice
- Start date
This is strange. I feel so much like you do regarding the game. I'm sure what was great about the game was great during the time it came out. Today, to me, it seems too dated. That's a strange thing, because I can have tons of fun with games as far back as the NES. I've tried getting into KOTOR two times, and it just couldn't capture me.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
For the love of god I understand the combat mechanics with the timers and dice rolls. That changes absolutely nothing about how well it actually plays out.
Don't worry, I think the interactions suck compared to games 6/7 years older than it as well.
Dark side/light side only affects the force points cost of the power. If you're fucking up checks, you built your character badly. Also gunplay? The game uses d20 rules.
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
I played through KoTOR just recently and I have the exact opposite opinion OP. It's a shame that you can't see the magic there. You're missing out
I think one of the biggest differences between KotOR and later Bioware RPGs is the varied number of approaches to each situation. In Mass Effect, it's talk your way through or shoot your way out, with a huge emphasis on the latter.
In KotOR, there's hacking, security, demolitions, and other stuff in the mix that makes it feel more dynamic. All of those systems are shallow on their own, but it all really adds up. I think a lot of that was missing from their later games going on.
In KotOR, there's hacking, security, demolitions, and other stuff in the mix that makes it feel more dynamic. All of those systems are shallow on their own, but it all really adds up. I think a lot of that was missing from their later games going on.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
You do realize that without games like KotOR there would likely be no Mass Effect? Any time you play an older game I think its important to keep one's perspective of the time in which it was released. Sure, older games might not hold up well having played subsequent newer games that make use of more refined systems, but its not really fair to shit on something like KotOR's use of cinematics and compare them unfavorably to Mass Effect. No kidding they're not as advanced or flashy as the latest Mass Effect game.
i dont remember if it was KOTOR or not, but there was an RPG i played on XBOX where you were on a space station like city, and there was some rogue AI that was hacking the network and one of the sidequests had you track it down, and if you didnt answer the questions correctly i would explode and kill you
pretty sure it was KOTOR
pretty sure it was KOTOR
I'm beginning to see part of the problem. The OP thought that there were action elements to the battle system.
There aren't. It IS a full tactical system. In fact, Dragon Age is kind of a dumbed down version of this battle system because you can't queue commands in DA:O. Hell, Dragon Age actually brings position into things, which is something KOTOR doesn't, so it's more action than this.
There aren't. It IS a full tactical system. In fact, Dragon Age is kind of a dumbed down version of this battle system because you can't queue commands in DA:O. Hell, Dragon Age actually brings position into things, which is something KOTOR doesn't, so it's more action than this.
DAREALGUMMY
Member
Never played Kotor 2 but I replayed Kotor and thought it was still good fun.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I never had a problem with the combat, but then again I played KOTOR on Xbox like a decade ago.
BattleMonkey
Member
Oh it's like one of those joke posts, lol
Almost got me
Almost got me
Damn good story and some great twists.
I'm referring to the JRPG comment. The only technical issues I ran into last time was not being able to apply the widescreen mod.
michaelius
Banned
True it's not crime to have bad taste and prefer modern dudebros awesome rpgs like Skyrim or Dragon Age 2
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Really? Because now in KOTOR2 my wisdom is only a point lower than Keira and int/cha is the same, and yet I'm way less successful than her. I was pretty certain it was just from being light side while using dark moves since stun droid connects almost every time. If wis/int/cha has nothing to do with force powers working, they really need to explain what does affect it better because it must be deviating quite a bit from RPG standards.
SolsticeZero
Banned
KOTOR gave us one of the greatest characters of all time:
Motherfucking Jolee Bindo
And what RPG do you use as a standard? Because they're using pretty much the original RPG standards.
Motherfucking Jolee Bindo
And what RPG do you use as a standard? Because they're using pretty much the original RPG standards.
shiftplusone
Member
Some of you guys suck. I'm quite fond of the KOTOR games myself, but he should be able to express his opinion without being hit with a tidal wave of lazy shit posts.
I definitely get the complaints about the mechanics of the game, but I don't mind the semi-automated style of the combat. It's a little awkward but it's a nice place inbetween slow turned based combat and mashy action combat. The Witcher did it a little better though.
The balance is also a bit off, once your force powers reach a certain level every combat encounter is a cake walk, but again I don't mind this for the simple fact that, as someone who grow up on Star Wars, it's fun to roleplay as a super powerful Jedi.
But with all that being said, I never really loved the KOTOR games for their nuts and bolts. The "gameplay" is just filler inbetween plot and character interaction. It may not be the deepest thing out there, but again, I'm a Star Wars kid so it's hard not to love being at the center of it's universe. The combat isn't anything great, but I found it inoffensive enough to not detract from my enjoyment of the series. And KOTOR2, as disjointed as it may be at times, does have some really great characterization and character interaction. Kreia is one of the best characters in SW, extended universe or otherwise. I replayed it recently and it actually held up really well for me, I was gripped until the end.
I definitely get the complaints about the mechanics of the game, but I don't mind the semi-automated style of the combat. It's a little awkward but it's a nice place inbetween slow turned based combat and mashy action combat. The Witcher did it a little better though.
The balance is also a bit off, once your force powers reach a certain level every combat encounter is a cake walk, but again I don't mind this for the simple fact that, as someone who grow up on Star Wars, it's fun to roleplay as a super powerful Jedi.
But with all that being said, I never really loved the KOTOR games for their nuts and bolts. The "gameplay" is just filler inbetween plot and character interaction. It may not be the deepest thing out there, but again, I'm a Star Wars kid so it's hard not to love being at the center of it's universe. The combat isn't anything great, but I found it inoffensive enough to not detract from my enjoyment of the series. And KOTOR2, as disjointed as it may be at times, does have some really great characterization and character interaction. Kreia is one of the best characters in SW, extended universe or otherwise. I replayed it recently and it actually held up really well for me, I was gripped until the end.
Shut it down
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
Well, duh. That goes without saying. I think "hip" is the word.
Coming off of the borderline trainwreck of Lucas' prequel trilogy, KotOR was a cause for celebration when it was released. Not only was it a solid, entertaining RPG, but it managed to recapture the Star Wars magic in a way the series creator no longer seemed capable of. I went back and replayed it again a couple of years ago, and I remember enjoying it as much then as I did back when it was first released. Sure, technology's advanced since then, but it still hits all the right notes for me.
KotOR 2 was another story. That game was a rushed, buggy mess that completely falls apart in the final act, and is on my short list of games with disappointing endings. Worse, at least to me, was that it didn't feel particularly Star Wars-y. In everything from plot and themes to atmosphere and tone, it felt like a story from some other milieu that had been shoehorned into the Star Wars universe. This was especially disappointing after seeing how well Bioware had captured the essence of Star Wars in the first game.
KotOR 2 was another story. That game was a rushed, buggy mess that completely falls apart in the final act, and is on my short list of games with disappointing endings. Worse, at least to me, was that it didn't feel particularly Star Wars-y. In everything from plot and themes to atmosphere and tone, it felt like a story from some other milieu that had been shoehorned into the Star Wars universe. This was especially disappointing after seeing how well Bioware had captured the essence of Star Wars in the first game.
Pagusas
Elden Member
im very grateful I played this when it first came out and LOVED every second of it. I'm sure it wouldnt hold up today, but back with the original Xbox, I loved it. The interactions, the story moments (thought not the overarching story) the charecters (loved some of the littlle side mission joke stories).
Really it was a game that charmed you with the little things like building your own light saber and some of the character interactions. Somehow I get the impression you skipped over all those. Regardless I couldnt imagine playing those games today, far to outdated gameplay wise now. But back then? They were good.
Really it was a game that charmed you with the little things like building your own light saber and some of the character interactions. Somehow I get the impression you skipped over all those. Regardless I couldnt imagine playing those games today, far to outdated gameplay wise now. But back then? They were good.
If you're a person who puts a huge emphasis on gameplay over everything else then I can see that being possible. PST is pretty bad if you just look at the gameplay.
Xamdou said:
You may as well say Uncharted 2 doesn't count, only the original game does.
It hasn't really aged well. When I tried to play it a year and a half ago, I was bored by the time I started rolling around Tatooine. I'll attempt to play more later, as I'm sure the story picks up, but the worlds felt sterile.
In spite of that, I can see how it really must have been a landmark for its time. I acknowledge that it would have been a much better experience for me if I experienced it in 2003 instead of 2010; after I had already played Dragon Age.
In spite of that, I can see how it really must have been a landmark for its time. I acknowledge that it would have been a much better experience for me if I experienced it in 2003 instead of 2010; after I had already played Dragon Age.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Don't worry, someday you'll understand if/then statements.
The difference is in Dragon Age when I say "Go here and do this" they actually do. Oh, except you can say "go here" in KOTOR, you have to manually control them because positioning apparently meant jack shit to the designers.
dripdripsplash
Member
Moff
Member
Kotor was amazing for its time, and it still has the best twist I have ever seen in a videogame, never was I more blown away by a simple game.
and kotor 2, my, what a godgame this could have been, if obsidian could have finished it. but the shadow we got back there was sadly not better than kotor 1.
and kotor 2, my, what a godgame this could have been, if obsidian could have finished it. but the shadow we got back there was sadly not better than kotor 1.
SolsticeZero
Banned
No need to be condescending about it. I was just wondering what system you use for an RPG standard
KOTOR 2 is an amazing game. The lackluster final act (which is only the last 2 hours of the game) don't change that one bit.
KOTOR on the other hand has not aged well at all. I always attempt to play through the first game to try and get a marathon going... but once I hit Taris and I see the only two dialogue options I will ever have (psychopath and boy scout) I lose all desire to continue.
KOTOR on the other hand has not aged well at all. I always attempt to play through the first game to try and get a marathon going... but once I hit Taris and I see the only two dialogue options I will ever have (psychopath and boy scout) I lose all desire to continue.
Goldenroad
Member
Awesome opinion bro.
malboroking
Banned
Why is is it that people with J-pop avatars have the worst opinions?
Do you like anything? I don't think I've ever read a post of yours that wasn't negative.
Do you like anything? I don't think I've ever read a post of yours that wasn't negative.
That one point of wisdom and your rolls can make all the difference.
BattleMonkey
Member
KOTOR doesn't get good till you leave Taris
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I'm getting an overall condescending vibe from 90% of the responses, sorry.
For CRPGs I'd use Infinity Engine games as a standard. The ol D&D setup translated into pausable realtime seems to be what has carried on to all RPGs. Within this, int/wis/cha are almost always the basis of magic effectiveness. Since mine are nearly the same as another character who is highly effective, what other conclusion should I draw?
Anyway I'm out for a bit to get lunch and check on something more important than people discounting me or assuming I'm ignorant about combat systems I talked about in detail.
You shouldn't need 18 in a stat to get more than 5% effectiveness (I've seen affliction work twice in the first 20 hours of the game)
Similar threads
- Poll