I've played many JRPGs and both the KotOR games (second one especially) were really enjoyable to me. Having a non-popular opinion is okay. Statements like these are dumb.
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Late to the Crappy: KOTOR 1&2
- Thread starter Dice
- Start date
I've played many JRPGs and both the KotOR games (second one especially) were really enjoyable to me. Having a non-popular opinion is okay. Statements like these are dumb.
Ehh, iirc you could set it up so that it paused after every command, but I guess the definition depends in how freely you move the character and not how abilities unfold. I guess I was thinking more versus a game like DA2 and it's shitty system which added an AA button.
So OP didn't like Planescape T. either... With that and his constant bringing up of Mass Effect I guess he is more of a presentation+flair+gameplay > story+fiddling with your party kind of guy, which makes me wonder why on earth he plays old CRPGs and similar games in the first place.
That JRPG comment is quite the sight to behold, too.
The post you quoted heavily implied that I like Kotor 2.
inky said:
Indeed. There's never been a JRPG that did character interaction or writing as well as either Kotor game, and keep in mind that I have a really low opinion of Kotor 1 especially in the writing department.
Seriously, though, this gives me some perspective, if true.
Dice, is it correct to assume you give far more importance to gameplay, balance and the like than characters and story? Not trying to discredit your opinion, just understand it a little better. If that is the case, I get why you wouldn't be able to have fun with these games.
You're right about the gameplay being boring. Like Snuggler said, it really felt like filler. The story and characters were so compelling, though, that I didn't care about that.
You're still wrong about the characters and story. And no, I'm not worried.
[I'm only talking about KOTOR2]
Thug Waffle
Member
As a junior, it is severely out of place for me to even utter something like this, but dude...
I hate your opinion. I think it is as wrong as an opinion can be.
KOTOR is one of my all-time favorite games, though. So take that for what it's worth.
I hate your opinion. I think it is as wrong as an opinion can be.
KOTOR is one of my all-time favorite games, though. So take that for what it's worth.
He likes negativity
SolsticeZero
Banned
Welcome to GAF. You'll fit right in.
lol at using Mass Effect as a standard for good WRPG gameplay.
Doesn't matter. The story and role-playing aspects are abysmal. I do think the combat is done much better in the first game, but since I've gotten into modding KOTOR 2 I've managed to fix that short coming for myself.
This is something I've always wondered. Why hasn't anyone ever tried this? Persona 3/4 are very close to this... I would love to see this.
I feel like Bioware's strength has been the overall story, not the dialogue.
The Reapers in Mass Effect 1, the twist in KOTOR, they create great stories.
Their dialogue has always been fairly derivative and juvenile. And i can say that as a huge fan of bioware, former fan that is.
Now of course, their overall story handling is pretty bad and their dialogue has only gotten worse. I actually physically cringe when I watch some parts of ME3. Its really sad what they have become, but I'm way off topic here.
That doesn't make it turn-based. They aren't taking turns. It's all simultaneous actions.
You mean the things that caused almost all the story related problems in the series and the incredibly obvious twist? Character interaction and dialogue is pretty much the only writing related thing to like in Mass Effect.
SolsticeZero
Banned
Indeed. If anything, it's more of a free-roam ATB system.
The game is actually turn based. Its hidden, but they are taking turns.
My advice is to never delete the top ability in the queue. Sometimes what will happen is your character will skip his turn because you cleared the ability.
Well when I was 12 it wasn't that obvious.
But you have to admit even if the twist was obvious its still a very compelling story overall with that and the Rakatta. The Reapers are very compelling as well.
It might have been something they were decent at. But ME2 and onward hasn't produced anything worth mention. I also think the story in KOTOR 1 is very boring. In a way it fits the series a whole lot better then part 2's story which obviously tried to do a lot more with the universe.
At this point might as well bring every TPS into the mix as well. I meant in the "action" sense, which he obviously prefers.
Yes, that is how I remembered this too, but maybe I've been wrong all this time.
I could never get into the KotOR games, either. Granted, I attribute this to the fact that I generally don't like games with that style of combat. Also, I didn't play either of these games when they first came out. Like you, I picked them up when they were cheap, so I didn't have much of an investment in them. I couldn't have cared less if they were good for me, because I'd likely picked up twenty other games during the same Steam sale.
rosaceadude2112
Member
I love Kotor 2 a bunch but the combat really does stink in both and 2 in particular has some of the worst damn dungeons. It's also one of the few games ever made that has legit good writing and storytelling though, and features probably the best dialogue trees of any rpg I've played. That first time you meet Atris is sick, it's like a verbal boss fight.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Pfft, as if the turn based excellence of Temple of Elemental Evil could ever match a poor man's Gears of war.
Have either of you tried Trails in the Sky? Derrick I'm assuming you have, but I find it's easily better in character interaction and writing than most WRPGs, KOTOR included.
Ya ME2 is when Bioware started their downfall in the story department.
Lol
The Reapers are a blight. I'd rather be off doing the character sidequests in 2. Saving the universe is boring and played out adn the Reapers did nothing but become a worse and worse part of the games, and they were never good outside of one interaction with Sovereign. But you are right the KotOR made for a compelling classic Star Warsy story.
What semantics? It's clear as day light.
Simultaneous actions: All the characters can take actions simultaneously. Each character has internal timer between each action, called round.
Turn-based actions: Characters take actions one after another. One round is when all the characters complete one turn.
No, they're taking turns. They're on a clearly defined round-based system. If I recall correctly, they're still on the 6-second round system, but they can gain multiple actions in a single round.
It's turn-based, all right. The developers at BioWare worked very hard to "hide" the obvious role-playing aspects in gameplay, all the while freely admitting they exist and form the basis of combat.
It's a bit of a hybrid system no doubt. But there is quiet a bit of turn-base combat going on. Notice once you engage the enemies all there attacks happen at once and then your parties attacks all happen at once.
This makes me sad in the pants.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Never played the Uncharted series so I can't comment on that.
The original Kotor had an ending, better story than Kotor 2 and has the greatest plot twist in all of video game history. Kotor 2 was such a big letdown that I don't even want it to be added to the kotor canon.
Technosteve
Banned
Are JRPG's still popular in this country?
A plot twist doesn't write an entire story. That's all Kotor 1 has in the writing department over 2, a single plot twist that is unveiled in 30 seconds of a 30 hour game.
A great plot twist and an actual ending that don't leave you hanging, Kotor is a memorable game compared to Kotor 2 which I have forgotten about.
I tried about 3 times to get into KOTOR back in the day and got bored or sidetracked each time. Gave it a fourth shot after liking Jade Empire and I ended up playing through it two more times straight after. I got hooked big time. I think the levels were bland and ugly but I really liked the side missions and choices you got, even if they were all quite similar.
e.g.
You finish a quest and get offered a reward.
good: turn down the reward and say a good deed is its own reward or something lame like that
neutral: take reward and go
evil: Kill the guy, take the reward as well as everything on him....just because.
I don't think they had to make the divide between good and evil choices so large
The second was alright but I wasn't into it as much as the first. Gonna try it on PC soon with the restored content mod.
e.g.
You finish a quest and get offered a reward.
good: turn down the reward and say a good deed is its own reward or something lame like that
neutral: take reward and go
evil: Kill the guy, take the reward as well as everything on him....just because.
I don't think they had to make the divide between good and evil choices so large
The second was alright but I wasn't into it as much as the first. Gonna try it on PC soon with the restored content mod.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
If there was any reason to love you cruel robot this is it. Character interaction is one of the few things that Bioware does acceptably.
HK-47 is better than most of the cast in KOTOR 2. I also am replaying KOTOR 2 right now and the intro in KOTOR 1 is leagues better than in 2. Like leagues better.
GordonHalfman
Member
Why not just say round-based? Since turn-based has a completely distinct meaning.
MMBosstones86
Member
late to this thread but...
....what are you on OP? And where can I get some?
....what are you on OP? And where can I get some?
No, they're not taking turns. Round is not turn.
Let me try to explain this simplest of distinctions.
Turn-based:
Combat starts.
Each character, the pcs and enemies, get their order of turn.
Character with first turn takes action.
Everyone else waits. No action.
Character with second turn takes action.
Everyone else waits. No action.
...
Character with the last turn takes action.
Everyone else waits. No action.
Everyone has finished taking their actions.
End of round.
Round 2 starts.
...
Real-time:
Combat starts.
Everyone starts taking actions.
Nobody waits for other characters to finish their actions.
Each action takes a set amount of time, called round. (3 seconds in these games)
tiggerkiddo
Member
Hmmm I thought KOTOR was okay for the small bit I tried it out but I didn't play it on the optimal system so I ended up drifting away from it, might give it another try down the line.
I was just trying to type something, but I guess I'm out at this point.
That's how I feel about it. I just played KOTOR 2 last year though, and KOTOR 1 ages ago. Many of the criticisms in the OP feel like they apply to 1 much more so than 2.
Oh, and regarding the portrayal of the light/dark side of the force, and morality, KOTOR 2 does a much better and more interesting job than most Star Wars media in general, and pretty much every game Bioware has ever made.
Not really. Taris and the station are both pretty equally terrible and boring to play through. The difference is kotor 2's following areas are more interesting due to being better written, whereas kotor 1's following areas are just as much of a chore to play through as Taris.
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