BreezyLimbo
Banned
I mean Ill agree they nailed the whole hungry aspect of her. Like damn girl, you hungry.
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League of Legends |OT13| Diamond is Unreachable
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
- Start date
I mean Ill agree they nailed the whole hungry aspect of her. Like damn girl, you hungry.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
what's the point of this post
To point out an example of very bad voice acting for a similar type of character in a moba.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
This is a league/hots safe space. Please comply.
Sr Kitsune
Member
League safe place? In GAF?
Anyways I have been playing my placements so far 5-1, I hope I land in Gold. I don't have enough time to climb.
Anyways I have been playing my placements so far 5-1, I hope I land in Gold. I don't have enough time to climb.
those two things are unrelated, you don't need to be high elo to have good design knowledge and viceversa
I don't think the concept of making Janna more interactive and less "stay back and shield" is wrong, her numbers just got way too high compared to the nerf she got. She really needed multiple nerfs and some compensation buff, not multiple buffs and one nerf only for early laning phase.
lmao
The person who nerfed Vayne was probably an intelligent human being. They realized that her laning isn't punishable enough right now, so they dialed back her mid/game lategame power.
Janna has pretty much the same issue, but they decided that rather than tone down lategame, or make her laning weaker they just buffed both aspects. I don't even see how the Q and W buffs make her more interactive, that just makes her disengage more reliable. Also, giving her 40 HP level 1 is one most random and disgusting changes I've ever seen.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I would argue you need to know good design to know about good design.
what?
exactly
also game knowledge, but you can get game knowledge without having an arbitrary score prove it
specially in the case of you working at the company that makes the game, which gives you access to all sorts of data and statistics and insight
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yup those are the two key things
Knowledge of the game
Knowledge of game design relevant to the game.
Personal skill is optional.
Alright, lets go over this scenario.
*Rioter pulls up some Janna stats to decide on nerf*
-Lowest death count in the game overall
-Historically high winrate
-Death count of team drastically reduced when shes present on a team
-Melee champions like Renekton have drastically low winrates against her
-Comeback potential against her is drastically reduced
-High amount of wards placed and killed because its so difficult to punish her for warding/removing wards
Riot Ponytail - "Alright, I've decided what we're gonna do. Lets nerf a single ability but compensate her in pretty much every other way that matters hehe xd"
*Rioter pulls up some Janna stats to decide on nerf*
-Lowest death count in the game overall
-Historically high winrate
-Death count of team drastically reduced when shes present on a team
-Melee champions like Renekton have drastically low winrates against her
-Comeback potential against her is drastically reduced
-High amount of wards placed and killed because its so difficult to punish her for warding/removing wards
Riot Ponytail - "Alright, I've decided what we're gonna do. Lets nerf a single ability but compensate her in pretty much every other way that matters hehe xd"
Knowledge of the game and personal skill are closely intertwined. It's a big reason why Riot has hired pro players like Gleeb and Robert Lee in the past. But lets give Swain a global ult, and add a talent system to the game hahahAHAHA.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I knew German Evelynn was the best
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofle...new_evelynn_german_voice_over_has_her_saying/
Newt just ban janna
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofle...new_evelynn_german_voice_over_has_her_saying/
Newt just ban janna
Look at that, Janna is getting hotfix nerfed now or very soon.
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/gikJEw03-janna-hotfix-context
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/gikJEw03-janna-hotfix-context
as they addressed in the hotfix today, they had concerns these changes weren't enough, but they were erring on the safe side because ardent censer nerfs + new runes might shake balance enough for further nerf not to be necessaryAlright, lets go over this scenario.
*Rioter pulls up some Janna stats to decide on nerf*
-Lowest death count in the game overall
-Historically high winrate
-Death count of team drastically reduced when shes present on a team
-Melee champions like Renekton have drastically low winrates against her
-Comeback potential against her is drastically reduced
-High amount of wards placed and killed because its so difficult to punish her for warding/removing wards
Riot Ponytail - "Alright, I've decided what we're gonna do. Lets nerf a single ability but compensate her in pretty much every other way that matters hehe xd"
they had a hotfix with a bunch of nerfs prepared in case her day 1 results weren't positive and they've pushed that to live already
i agree with u that these nerfs were way too gentle but rioter in charge being silver or diamond is completely unrelated...
they hired them as playtesters, not designers, because their input is relevant but that doesn't mean they can design or balance for shit
BreezyLimbo
Banned
The only relevant part of that hotfix is the nerf to the mana pool, and I wouldn't be suprised if that doesn't do anything at all because coin still gives ridiculous amount of mana, and Janna still rushes mana regen.
Well seems like these designers can't process input for shit :harold: .
breezy if you've been paying attention they've been doing that for a while lol
well i mean, not necessarily op, but crazy impact ults like galio or xayah or whatever
they're taking steps to push janna in a healthier direction as they've explained in that context post
if u choose to get informed it's pretty easy to see they use that data and have goals they're aiming towards
as i've already said, they're erring on the safe side cos big changes are incoming...
also no offense to gleeb and specially robertxlee who seems like the friendliest guy ever, but out of the two players you chose to endorse, one had to quit pro gaming over mental health issues and the other has freaking amnesia. i mean, c'mon lol what are the chances those two are gonna be your picks lmao
Stone Ocean
Member
I like space Elise but it's the splash that's gonna sell me on it since I already have Bloodmoon
lol, I know where those graphs came from
I will say lots of Rioters are high ELO, and I'm quite confident the QA team contains a few Masters players at the very least.
They just made a mistake with the Janna fixes and it snuck through, happens all the time.
In terms of design, I don't think you need to be Challenger to do League design, but you need to understand how Challenger players play the game. That would probably be hard for somebody who's genuinely in Silver.
like everything in league, balance isn't made unilaterally or arbirarily by a single one person
ppl in charge of the janna changes consulted and playtested with high elo players
they don't just put your average silver player in charge but that's most likely cos your average silver player is an dumb dumb for a lot more reasons than just their elo
ppl in charge of the janna changes consulted and playtested with high elo players
they don't just put your average silver player in charge but that's most likely cos your average silver player is an dumb dumb for a lot more reasons than just their elo
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Remember when jannas ult had a super slow function to it
Those were the days
Those were the days
BreezyLimbo
Banned
And true to monsoons it should knock up any enemy trying to enter it
For the duration of the ult
Reduce her ults duration to 1 second
Pretty fair no?
Ahri also had that thing going for her, while Miss doesn't but she is also too focused on what her guns can do, IMO.
I only started playing Evelynn cause I bought her by mistake a long time ago, her q was fun. She looks she is fun to play with (no Void Staff intended) after the rework.
Trying to make Janna more active is probably just a fool's errand without a more serious overhaul. Ardent Censer was clearly overpowered but I would suspect that it became an erroneous scapegoat even internally at Riot, which is easily reflected by supports that can easily build Ardent still not finding success (like Karma or Nami). The changes to Janna faring on the conservative side as a result of the Ardent changes are somewhat of a headscratcher, seeing as how powerful Janna has been in the past without that specific item.
I think many of the issues tied to support relate to income. The way Coin generates gold is immensely more reliable and safe than the alternatives. Shield has certain advantages when it comes to sustain and helping with last hitting, but Dagger is simply high risk with a very low end reward attached to it. Supports this season have continually gravitated towards the most gold efficient items without needing to think about what their team needs, in part because they have so little to work with. This also bolsters champions that rely on gold the least.
Looking at Janna specifically, the ire people like Newt express is pretty understandable to me when the changes seem so poorly vetted. Talking about this is sort of a hindsight 20/20 thing at this point, but it seems pretty obvious that little would be accomplished. Janna wasn't strong because she could shield every ten seconds in lane. Janna is the premier solo queue support because her disruption is reliable and comes with little cost/risk. The specific set of changes on 7.19 made W and Q stronger with one level and just forces people to level E first (which they already wanted to do anyways). It is difficult to identify what weakness was even trying to be implemented here. The number of support champions that can reliably punish in the 1-5 level range is fairly low in the current meta, and realistically these early fights do not occur with enough frequency or last long enough for a 16 or 14 second shield to be lacking.
On a fundamental level I think it's just bad for champions like Janna to be strong. Other supports have identifiable patterns that tend to have some kind of method to play around them, but Janna's only real purpose is to provide incredible disruption from an absolutely immense range. Not only can she participate in these fights at no real risk to herself, but she has additional safety nets that the enemy team really cannot do anything about. Her passive makes her and allies difficult to pin down without opportunity for disruption. The heavy slow to enemies cannot miss to help with kiting, and the tornado is useful with or without its windup with a fairly forgiving hitbox. Even if you get past these things her ability to push people out creates a very high mobility requirement, because suddenly you have to push into a team fight all over again. Again, another ability that is very forgiving and will always have upsides with its heal even if used poorly. The mini-stun on top of the pushback is only icing on the cake. Nothing about the new patch really hurts Janna as a pure disrupter with one of the most reliable and safest toolsets in the game.
I think many of the issues tied to support relate to income. The way Coin generates gold is immensely more reliable and safe than the alternatives. Shield has certain advantages when it comes to sustain and helping with last hitting, but Dagger is simply high risk with a very low end reward attached to it. Supports this season have continually gravitated towards the most gold efficient items without needing to think about what their team needs, in part because they have so little to work with. This also bolsters champions that rely on gold the least.
Looking at Janna specifically, the ire people like Newt express is pretty understandable to me when the changes seem so poorly vetted. Talking about this is sort of a hindsight 20/20 thing at this point, but it seems pretty obvious that little would be accomplished. Janna wasn't strong because she could shield every ten seconds in lane. Janna is the premier solo queue support because her disruption is reliable and comes with little cost/risk. The specific set of changes on 7.19 made W and Q stronger with one level and just forces people to level E first (which they already wanted to do anyways). It is difficult to identify what weakness was even trying to be implemented here. The number of support champions that can reliably punish in the 1-5 level range is fairly low in the current meta, and realistically these early fights do not occur with enough frequency or last long enough for a 16 or 14 second shield to be lacking.
On a fundamental level I think it's just bad for champions like Janna to be strong. Other supports have identifiable patterns that tend to have some kind of method to play around them, but Janna's only real purpose is to provide incredible disruption from an absolutely immense range. Not only can she participate in these fights at no real risk to herself, but she has additional safety nets that the enemy team really cannot do anything about. Her passive makes her and allies difficult to pin down without opportunity for disruption. The heavy slow to enemies cannot miss to help with kiting, and the tornado is useful with or without its windup with a fairly forgiving hitbox. Even if you get past these things her ability to push people out creates a very high mobility requirement, because suddenly you have to push into a team fight all over again. Again, another ability that is very forgiving and will always have upsides with its heal even if used poorly. The mini-stun on top of the pushback is only icing on the cake. Nothing about the new patch really hurts Janna as a pure disrupter with one of the most reliable and safest toolsets in the game.
Reivaxe
Member
More like she wants to stick the Void staff up YOUR ass.
I don't think her lines are supposed to be seductive unless you're a masochist.
Her whole theme is getting off on inflecting pain that leads to death.
That's why I think they were able to get those lines through. It SOUNDS sexy but she's legit just getting joy from the act of killing or hurting someone.
That feel when you are less about Janna's balance and dislike her more because she's boring af to play as/against. Her entire design is disengage aka go back to farming like a gud. Until endgame, then her threat is literally "don't try or you will fail cause I'll fart you away while my minions sanic around me so lol at your skillshots".
And she's been like this for years. ~_~ When I vs a lane like Lucian/Janna it's just soul crushing.
And she's been like this for years. ~_~ When I vs a lane like Lucian/Janna it's just soul crushing.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
On the janna discussion(via C9 vs Lyon Gaming tonight)
C9 has Janna
Lyon does not
I know I know keep discussion in the thread, but I felt it was relevant
C9 has Janna
Lyon does not
C9 getting their asses kicked
I know I know keep discussion in the thread, but I felt it was relevant
breezy relevant or not keep it on the other thread
this is worlds, it's no joking matter -__-
lmao
this is worlds, it's no joking matter -__-
lmao
BreezyLimbo
Banned
im sorry zky
forgive me think of sexy evlentynn
forgive me think of sexy evlentynn
Jhin's not that great right now and Cait is like, the only other ADC I enjoy
All my other favs (Corki, Lucian and Graves) are terrible bot now
Let me live my life man
Like literally you manage to always be wrong. You should go to a casino and just gamble against your gut instinct. You would be a millionaire.
Not playing mid, the superior role, and playing Lucian and Corki to your hearts content.
SenorArdilla
Member
Chunking squishies with TF's Q feels kind of broken. Landing almost every long-range skillshot feels broken honestly.
Nice post!
The coin vs spellthief choice warps bot lane for sure. Even with perfect spellthief use you're likely to lag behind a coin user in gold, while putting yourself at much higher risk. You probably can't ever get perfect spellthief generation too, even if you try. Janna used to be more manageable when she was near hard-countered by Sona, but ever since Sona's rework that threat hasn't really been there.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
????