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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
So, i've always had intel in my personal pcs but I bought a 7800x3d for my daughter with a b760 mag tomahawk mobo. The 9800x3d will just drop I'm right?
AMD kill it with forward compatibility.
AMD kill it with forward compatibility.
playsaves3
Member
Extra sucky if the ps5 pro doesn’t use it
SmokSmog
Member
Zen5 is on N4P
Zen5c is on N3
FingerBang
Member
I doubt I'll upgrade from the 7950x3D anytime soon (I'm literally never CPU limited at the resolution I play at), but goddamn that's a spicy jump.
I was thinking of building a second PC so I might go for one of the non 3D variants
I was thinking of building a second PC so I might go for one of the non 3D variants
playsaves3
Member
Zen 5 being on n4p would then make it extra Disappointing if the ps5 pro doesn’t use it considering it’s the expected process node for the pro
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Not really since Sony have a limited transistor budget and it makes more sense to use that budget on the GPU.
playsaves3
Member
I’
Zen 5 shouldn’t be that much more expensive in 2024 compared to zen 2 in 2020 and the pro is gonna be sold at a premium
winjer
Gold Member
Because the 8000 series are APUs, already in the market.
Bojji
Member
They just can't wait to name their next series some dumb way, to rival Intel in that front.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
The source is RGT.
Zen 4 has 73% more transistors per chiplet than Zen 2, so we would expect Zen 5 to be about 2.5X more. That's almost 6 billion transistors that you could spend on the GPU. If the Pro has 60 CUs + Zen 2, then the Zen 5 version might only have 48 CUs.
Edit: meant Zen 5, not RDNA 5.
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Insane Metal
Member
Damn, even that single thread performance is incredible. If it turns out to be true that's amazing.
DaGwaphics
Member
That looks like a nice upgrade. If they did that while keeping the power draw in check, that is quite an accomplishment.
because amd drivers are garbage
Quick test
Considered that, but under full load in CPU intensive games I barely break 80. The high load is OK, it's the medium load, like Steam downloads, that's a little surprising.
Compared to Nvidia on the GPU side they do use more power and run hotter. But on the CPU side, it's Intel who has the hotter chips. The 14900K can hit over 250W turboing and requires a high performance cooling solution. AMD on the other hand sips power. If it's used for gaming, AMD's CPUs are actually better to undervolt which lowers their power draw from stock, but since it produces less heat they maintain higher boost clocks longer. AMD is just conservative when it comes to power requirements.
I despise dudes who only fantasize upcoming tech but don't like released products for what they're, it's not like he's taking shortcuts, his content is basically useless cause he's not really into practical use of these products, this is stupid and only serve the adds he get sponsored, the type of contents he's delivering isn't meaningful, he's not telling why these products are amazing, he's just fantasizing them.This will age badly.
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sounds like cherry picking cause the 14900k is clearly meant for performance at the cost of power consumption. what about all their other chips. amd plays a cheap marketing strategy and tries to court gamers who want the most bang for their buck, their drivers cut corners and have huge compatibility issues outside gaming. for example pytorch only supports amd gpu on linux
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OK, then look at the 14700K vs the 7800X3D power draw during gaming. AMD has at least 1/2 the power draw, and can be a 1/3 Intel's for some games.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-14700k/23.html
AMD has been failing to compete against NVIDIA for a long time. But it's Intel who is struggling when it comes to CPUs. Hopefully AMD can pull a Ryzen in the GPU space and create something that can match NVIDIA's best, but right now they need to reach feature parity. Intel could be a dark horse and end up beating AMD, but who knows what the future will bring. Just as long as we get something that makes NVIDIA compete so we get new cards that were like the 1080ti rather than NVIDIA just sand bagging it generation to generation.
The 13400F is competitive but other Intel chips get soundly beaten. Nothing can touch the efficiency of the 7800X3D in gaming.
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review - The Best Gaming CPU
AMD's Ryzen 7 7800X3D is everything that gamers want: eight fast cores, in a single CCD, with 3D VCache stacked on top at a price point of $450. In our review we can confirm that 7800X3D is indeed the fastest gaming CPU available, beating Intel's 13900K and even the 7950X3D.
Zen 4 is designed to hit 90C safely and the 13th gen Intel chips are similar.
not up to date on amd things but i also just found this about ryzen cpus and pytorch basically they run slow to the point of almost not being worth it
That thread is from over three years ago and discusses issues where pytorch isn't detecting CPU features correctly, and thus ends up using slower code.
The testing is on Zen 2 which is two generations behind. I don't work with machine learning, but AMD has ZenDNN which supposedly integrates and accelerates pytorch.
https://www.amd.com/en/developer/zendnn.html
SolidQ
Member
Can't run Intel MKL? What is surpised
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
At most I hit the 40's Air cooled...
winjer
Gold Member
I hit around 50, also air cooled.
twilo99
Member
Mild undervolt might help quite a bit. Great CPUs but still require further extra set up work from the user which isn’t great
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JMarcell
Member
9800X3D, single-CCX CPUs perform better in games
twilo99
Member
Not an excuse to hold back game development with a notebook CPU from 2020 and charge $600+ for the machine that uses it..
OverHeat
« generous god »
I do more then gaming
simpatico
Member
Question I've been wondering is, what about the physical nature of the chips has changed? Before this chip, I think every CPU I've ever owned has had a tjmax in the 60s. What I'm wondering is, if the silicon is the same and companies are just comfy with higher temps, could old chips with a 63tjmax be safely overridden to 90c?The 13400F is competitive but other Intel chips get soundly beaten. Nothing can touch the efficiency of the 7800X3D in gaming.
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review - The Best Gaming CPU
AMD's Ryzen 7 7800X3D is everything that gamers want: eight fast cores, in a single CCD, with 3D VCache stacked on top at a price point of $450. In our review we can confirm that 7800X3D is indeed the fastest gaming CPU available, beating Intel's 13900K and even the 7950X3D.www.techpowerup.com
Zen 4 is designed to hit 90C safely and the 13th gen Intel chips are similar.
But of an outdated view when it's Intel's 14k CPUs that are crashing games because they're unstable and juicing a lot of power.
winjer
Gold Member
Intel changed how they rate the temperature limits.
Up until the 6000 series (Skylake) Intel reported something called Tcase. For example, for the 6700K, the Tcase is 64ºC
Intel describes this as "Case Temperature is the maximum temperature allowed at the processor Integrated Heat Spreader (IHS)."
But if we look at the 7000 series (Kaby Lake), which is just an overclocked Skylake, they started reporting Tjunction. For example, the 7700K as a Tjunction of 100ºC.
Intel describes this as "Junction Temperature is the maximum temperature allowed at the processor die."
So the thing is Intel just started reporting thermal limits in different places.
And off course, temperatures measured at the HIS will be lower than if measured at the CPU die.
Chances are, that those 64ºC Tcase match exactly to those 100ºC Tjunction.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Hard to believe the single threaded improvements, might be tempted to upgraded from Zen 4 if true.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
For a while there, he had been less hostile with AMD until Intel that shit known as 14th gen and said it was a good release.
He legit disappointed me right there.
ozz ex machina
Member
And I only just upgraded to 5800x3d. Should still do me a good few years I hope.
right, read the thread my dude the OP is asking why pytorch runs slower with AMD as if the onus is on individual developers to make up for shortcomings in drivers, the top response basically explains that the onus is on the manufacturer that provides the drivers and is something that intel and nvidia have always done and AMD has not.
i'm not familiar with this other thing you linked to but i would take a closer read yourself, seems like it's just for inference on CPUs. i wouldn't try and reach or grasp for straws in this kind of argument it's clear AMD is not this kind of company and are always just playing catch up, they would never have innovated this tech on their own, getting back to my original argument that they can't even write decent drivers.
Perhaps you should stop telling other people to read, and read the things presented to you first. The page I linked has compiled versions of the pytorch runtime on it that were optimized by AMD for their hardware. Your several years out of date arguments were that the math library Intel wrote and optimized for their CPUs wasn't performing well on AMD CPUs. Well AMD wrote their own library to fix this. CPU's don't really have drivers like you keep going on about. There could be a driver to interface with some specific feature, but not for general usage compute, you instead have libraries that programs need to compiled or linked to, for it to be utilized.
AMD has done well in current day HPC, and many companies are moving away from Intel due to AMD being able to fit 96 cores with 192 threads in a single socket for a CPU you can buy today. Intel's previously maxed out at 54 cores, 108 threads. But supposedly Sierra Forest is releasing in the next three months and will have up to 288 cores, but those are all Intel E cores. It could still be an amazing processor depending on your work load, but it will be clocked lower, and feature wise is cut down from the standard performance cores.
But I get it your world view is that an Intel and NVIDIA system is the bestest, and the AMDumbs don't know what they are talking about. AMD just can't innovate and create industry standards like Vulken or FSR, excpect they did. Or create the hardware for all of the video games consoles outside of the almost decade old Switch hardware. So far a single handheld PC has been released with Intel hardware, and it's a completely flop even compared to the over two year old Steam Deck.
it wasn't my argument it was just a discussion i linked to, and how old it is is irrelevant because it involves amds approach in writing their drivers, i'm not gong to spoon feed it to you. what you linked to seems to only involve inference, maybe you should read up on that since you said yourself you don't know much about ML. of course cpus have chipset drivers my dude
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Depends entirely on the GPU and rendering resolution.
Codeblew
Member
Key word: Chipset. That isn't a CPU driver, its a chipset driver. You know, for the other chips on the motherboard.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Of course, but the Zen 3 CPUs are so good that unless you really have bottom-tier parts, you'll very likely be GPU-limited. The upcoming series is good for people on Zen 2 or before. Zen 3 owners won't need to upgrade for at least another generation or two. Hell, you can ride high-end CPUs close to a decade and remain GPU-limited provided you target high enough resolutions.
marquimvfs
Member
I use an AMD rig and an sell computers with it. I sell more AMD than Intel since Zen 2 and after putting up hundreds of computers with Ryzens (and sometime low end Athlons too) I can assure you, you won't regret changing. No problems, at all. Intel since 11th gen is what AMD was with the FX line: Hot, expensive, and the higher end line is problematic.
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LavitzSlambert
Member
Big speed boost but what will the power draw and temps be like? And I can only imagine the prices.