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Let's appreciate: Metal Gear Solid 2 - Sons of Liberty

N

Naked Snake

Member
MGS2 is my favorite MGS by a good margin. I must have beat it no less than 15 times across almost every difficulty. I also own every incarnation of it (MGS2 + Substance on PS2, XBox, and PC).

<3 MGS2
 
S

sonicmj1

Member
Spotless Mind said:
I think you mean funniest thing in any MGS game.
Click to expand...

It goes from the saddest thing to the funniest thing in the time it takes for Otacon to start crying.

I like MGS2 a lot, and I really respect the narrative risks it took in its larger scenario. In fact, I'd suggest the larger plot arc is probably my favorite of any MGS game. I love the way the game messes with the player's expectations and throws Raiden for a loop in the service of its message.

That said, there are plenty of other problems, ranging from bad writing to annoying characters to plenty of backtracking through the fairly mundane and repetitive Big Shell environment. The boss fights are poor on the whole, also.

Still, there are a lot of interesting gameplay scenarios, so I can't really hate on how it plays that much. Most of the stealth is a really good balance between MGS1's fairly rigid tools and MGS3's open-ended sandbox. There are also a number of different interesting one-off bits, like the sniping portion. It's good in a lot of ways.

I remember MGS1 for its overall storytelling, MGS2 for its insane scenario, MGS3 for being the complete package, and MGS4 for starting really awesome, and then making me angry with cutscenes.
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
sonicmj1 said:
It goes from the saddest thing to the funniest thing in the time it takes for Otacon to start crying.

I like MGS2 a lot, and I really respect the narrative risks it took in its larger scenario. In fact, I'd suggest the larger plot arc is probably my favorite of any MGS game. I love the way the game messes with the player's expectations and throws Raiden for a loop in the service of its message.

That said, there are plenty of other problems, ranging from bad writing to annoying characters to plenty of backtracking through the fairly mundane and repetitive Big Shell environment. The boss fights are poor on the whole, also.

Still, there are a lot of interesting gameplay scenarios, so I can't really hate on how it plays that much. Most of the stealth is a really good balance between MGS1's fairly rigid tools and MGS3's open-ended sandbox. There are also a number of different interesting one-off bits, like the sniping portion. It's good in a lot of ways.

I remember MGS1 for its overall storytelling, MGS2 for its insane scenario, MGS3 for being the complete package, and MGS4 for starting really awesome, and then making me angry with cutscenes.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this, except Snake Eater being the complete package.

For me all the MGS games have gone the same way, the start, when the basic stealth mechanics are fully in play. In MGS1 you have the amazing intro scene, the awesome stealth gameplay, you have the great Ocelot fight, then it goes downhill, not massively, but slowly over the course of the game, the game gets worse. There are some great bits later, as there are with all the games, but that initial hour is the best. The boat is the best in MGS2. The first section of Snake Eater was the best (although the lame camo system and other micromanagement pretty much spoiled that game for me). The start of MGS4 is by far the best. In fact, the demo is the best part of the game.

It's as if he doesn't realize how special that gameplay is, as if he's perfected it without knowing it's good, so he's always trying to distract you from it, and filter it out as the game goes on. If and when anyone makes a game that is like the demo of MGS4 the whole way through, they're going to make something that'll outclass anything Kojima has mustered by a long way.
 
P

Pachimari

Member
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty is the best game released in the industry since the original on the PSone. The absolute best story for many years and #2 on my overall favorite list of all time.
 
R

Rahxephon91

Banned
I'll never get the hate. One of the best MGS games and just plain games ever. Probably the perfect stealth game if you ask me and while the story goes into lol worthy territory, it still was a lot more interesting then anything else out there then or now.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Not since MGS2 since we have seen a story so ambitious and, well...crazy. Reading the reasons behind the plot in the Document of MGS2 is pretty enlightening.

This game itself is quite awesome if you play for dogtags. It seriously reaches a new level.
 
V

VGChampion

Member
I really like this MGS. If I sat down and thought about it I'd probably pick it as my favorite. Still some of my favorite graphics of all time. I love that look.
 
stuminus3

stuminus3

Banned
I got banned from GAF once for posting about how much I absolutely despise this game, with every ounce of my being.

Yet I love it, probably more than every other person in this thread put together.

Well played, Kojima. You fucking fuck.
 
MDSLKTR

MDSLKTR

Member
MGS2 is the reason why I will always follow the franchise no matter what, yet I sadly know that no other mgs will ever come close to it.
The attention to detail was out of this world (i remember a french journal realeasing a separate booklet for all the easter eggs found in the frickin demo).
The 60fps will make sure that the game stays beautiful forever.
It was balsy (incest? fight in new york? characters getting shot point blank and actually dying?).
It wasn't about fan service.
It had revolver ocelot, the real one.
 
N

nolookjones

Member
Gomu Gomu said:
So I played it, or at least tried to play it, a couple of months ago. I was coming from my 10th replay for MGS1. The first part with Solid Snake was THE PERFECT sequel. The upgrade in the gameplay mechanics is phenomenal. The game played super smoothly, and controlling Snake never felt better.

And then.....

The second part began, Raiden was, is and will always be the worst main character in a game ever. And if that wasn't enough, the game takes a sudden turn into shitty sci-fi characters, long boring and useless codec conversations, an even more boring and stretched cutscenes, horrid voice acting, poor pacing and bad level design. OH MY GOD, how can a game sooooo good, becomes SOOOO BAD in a matter of minutes. I couldn't continue playing it. To me, MGS2 is the biggest F you from a developer.

edit: I'll be playing MGS3 very soon. I hope it holds up better than 2.
Click to expand...

this exactly...i was so disappointed in their choice to go with raiden (hate that character) i never finished this game...this was after playing MGS1 which is amazing so i was really hyped up...

make sure you do play MGS3 as its my fav of them all...just make sure you play the Subsistence version (better camera)

MGS3 > MGS1 > MGS4 > MGS2
 
I

Inanna

Not pure anymore!
I don't really get all the love MGS3 gets. MGS3 bosses (except for the End, Fury was alright too) were the worst in the series. It was a good game, but not as good as it could have been.

And I also don't get all the Raiden hate, he plays like Snake but he's just not as "manly" or somewhat dudebro-ish as Snake.
 
J

Jay Sosa

Member
This was actually the first game I played on the PS2 (over at a friends place, while they were fast asleep), I beat the first part in one night thinking it was the whole game :lol

But have to say that the story was a bit too obscure for my taste, vampires and dudes on rollerskates? Sure all the other ones have their strange bosses too but this one was seriously over the top.

Probably my least favorite MGS, together with the GC Remake, but that doesn't mean a thing because I love them all.
 
M

Mr. B Natural

Member
Pretty sure Kojima made MGS2 to get everyone to stop wanting more MGS, but he didn't realize his fan base was so dumb that they would think mgs2 was great. He threw everything he could come up with at it, and yet still got plenty of praise.

Worst story in a video game of all time both in story and in story telling. Bar none. Nothing will ever top it thanks to the fact that people still to this day take it seriously. Even if somebody manages to come up with a stupider story, people would just laugh at it and disregard it.
 
I

Inanna

Not pure anymore!
Jay Sosa said:
This was actually the first game I played on the PS2 (over at a friends place, while they were fast asleep), I beat the first part in one night thinking it was the whole game :lol

But have to say that the story was a bit too obscure for my taste, vampires and dudes on rollerskates? Sure all the other ones have their strange bosses too but this one was seriously over the top.

Probably my least favorite MGS, together with the GC Remake, but that doesn't mean a thing because I love them all.
Click to expand...
What about dudes that control bees? BEES?!? Oh and electricity? AND GHOSTS!

Also, Vamp was never a vampire, Vamp doesn't stand for "vampire", I remember there was a codec conversation in MGS2 that explained why he was called Vamp.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Inanna said:
I don't really get all the love MGS3 gets. MGS3 bosses (except for the End, Fury was alright too) were the worst in the series. It was a good game, but not as good as it could have been.

And I also don't get all the Raiden hate, he plays like Snake but he's just not as "manly" or somewhat dudebro-ish as Snake.
Click to expand...

MGS2 bosses were some kind of amazing experience to fight in Extreme difficulty(beating Vamp was the hardest thing I've ever done in a game), but I prefer the Cobra unit by far...The End is my favorite boss fight of all time.
 
I

I NEED SCISSORS

Banned
Ah yes, my personal favourite. The 60fps, the awesome soundtrack, the best bosses in the series, the huge twists the final hour took - I will never forget it. And there was also THAT crazy 'fission mailed' battle in Arsenal Gear.
 
Z

ZeroRay

Member
Substance is the best PS2/XBOX game. Such staggering amount of excellent gameplay.

As for Sons of Liberty itself, great game. I actually enjoyed the story, didn't mind Raiden but I did think Kojima made some stupid decisions in regards to it.
 
J

Jay Sosa

Member
Inanna said:
What about dudes that control bees? BEES?!? Oh and electricity? AND GHOSTS!

Also, Vamp was never a vampire, Vamp doesn't stand for "vampire", I remember there was a codec conversation in MGS2 that explained why he was called Vamp.
Click to expand...

He sure acted like one..

And there are people in real life making money controlling bees ;)

But when I think about it you're right, it was just at the time that it was kinda strange, sure the first one had Mantis but he was bad ass and no laughing stock like this rollerblade dude.

Best boss fights are in MGS 3, hands down. Especially the Ghost (I took me like 20 attempts to finally figure out what to do..)
 
R

Ranger X

Member
This MGS is the one with my favorite story. Sadly it's not my favorite gameplay (MGS3 is) but the game is nothing short of a masterpiece anyways.

.
 
L

loosus

Banned
Great game, but it unfortunately laid the groundwork for all the bullshit, unnecessary storyline crapfest that came after it. So while it was great, it was the beginning of the end of Metal Gear.
 
R

Ranger X

Member
loosus said:
Great game, but it unfortunately laid the groundwork for all the bullshit, unnecessary storyline crapfest that came after it. So while it was great, it was the beginning of the end of Metal Gear.
Click to expand...

?

MGS3 is having more gameplay than MGS2 or 1 ...
 
Y

Young Nobleman Of Sadness

Member
Loved Raiden.

Loved Pliskin.

Loved the gameplay.

Loved the easter eggs. And love the depth of the story.

What I could not stand was the bullshit about Liquid's arm. Kojima, you should have simply revived him ala Gray Fox.

MGS4 story would have been better with the "Real" Liquid.

P.D: MGS1 and MGS3 for the win.
 
D

Dipswitch

Member
I remember seeing the E3 demo back in the day and then picking my jaw up from the floor some time later. Definitely a "Holeey Shit" moment. No game from last generation to this one has achieved so huge a leap in fidelity and production values as this did from the original PS1 version IMO.

And, after all that, the game pretty much lived up to the hype when it was finally released. Granted, I did spend a lot of time mouthing "W.T.F??!!" during the last few hours of the game. But that reaction seems to be par for the course with Kojima these days.
 
D

dak1dsk1

Banned
One of my favorite games. Raiden > Snake. You know what would be interesting, a comparison of the launch title and the Substance edition (and or the Xbox version.)
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
Ranger X said:
?

MGS3 is having more gameplay than MGS2 or 1 ...
Click to expand...
It does have more, however it's not as good. Adding a star to tetris wouldn't improve it, adding micromanagement to MGS certainly didn't.
 
I

I NEED SCISSORS

Banned
loosus said:
Great game, but it unfortunately laid the groundwork for all the bullshit, unnecessary storyline crapfest that came after it. So while it was great, it was the beginning of the end of Metal Gear.
Click to expand...

It was actually meant to be the last in the series, before Kojima went into permanent drama queen mode and Konami forced him to make more he couldn't let the series go.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
I was at e3 for that first trailer. It was mindblowing at the time. CRAZY silent at the booth.

I enjoyed playing as Raiden. I thought it cool to see Snake through the eyes of another character. Kojima's bait and switch was great.

I think every MGS is amazing. No hate for the game from me <3
 
H

hxa155

Member
MGS2 was simply amazing for its time, and it still is. But everytime I replay it I just think to myself "man this game was actually made in 2001, TWO THOUSAND AND FUCKING ONE" :D
 
C

CosmicGroinPull

Member
The hostage room part was just brilliant. The sheer amount of fun that could be had there! :D Sadly, there's not been something like that in Metal Gear since then...
 
C

Chip N Chance

Member
Threads like this remind me how why i love the MGS series. The second game was a such a mind fuck, from start to finish, and was a very ballsy game. I don't think will ever get such a high profiled franchise to do what MGS2 did. I always hear about how people played the game so many times, and collected all the dog tags and what not. I only played the game once, but i loved so freaking much. As with all four Metal Gear games.

Every console generation, there's always that one game that stands out from the rest. Whether it be a "right time, right place" sort of thing, or just straight up looking amazing. I feel that MGS2 was that game for allot of people during that time period. I just hope that another Metal Gear game in the future will do what MGS2 did. Because so far, every time a new one comes out, people give it such crap. Maybe RISING?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68mbFvenlaQ&feature=related
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
This was my first MGS. I loved it- so weird. But after playing Snake Eater, there's no way I could return to it, the gameplay wasn't polished enough.
 
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