• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nameless

Member
YoungHav said:
nice post and I 100% agree with this part. The deaths felt inconsequential to me, laughed hard @ all the crying here when Jin/Sun died :lol .

You probably learned the word inconsequential from Surf Ninjas. Gtfo. 3 months of LOST threads and I've never seen you bring anything intelligent to the table.

Anyway. If those are red herrings they are the most pointless red herrings ever. Let's say you guys are right. What was the point? What did they add to anything? Nothing. I don't know what else to say. If you're going dismiss credible clues as the writers fuckig with the audience in the final season and ignore obvious consistencies in the broader narrative of LOST then ok. I feel like I'm having the "Christian Shephard" arguement all over again. Chances are I'll come out on the correct side of things with this as well.
 

Igoritza

Banned
Should i get started on bomb creating a purgatory ? i have, like, 10.000 reasons why that is retarded ? i see you covered all that with this modern "if its something weird, its magic, if it isnt even magic - its jacob" explanations.


anyways, i found out some other stupid things that bother me:

1. Smokey was imprisoned in a cabin. that much we could gather from previous seasons. and, knowing that Christian appeared here and there, all arround the island - and we latter found out that smokey was Christian - isnt that yet another plothole ?

2. Jacob's lighthouse - ok, so we know that Jacob doesnt have multiple forms, nor can he replicate himself. being corporeal is his actual state (knowing how Ben killed him). So, we are let to conclude that - he spent like, 30 years in that lighthouse, watching whole lives of 360 persons ?

3. Choosing sides - eventually, on whose side is Charles widmore ? he wanted to kill smokey as much as all of the other people in the show, he even braught equimpment for that, but - every other person on the show hated him. even Jacob was all like: "oh snap, they're coming" why ? and the rules, dont get me started on the rules .. every one has them, but no one knows the rules, everyone has a list, but only Jacob actually wrote one, which is inaccurate ...
 

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
Nameless said:
You probably learned the word inconsequential from Surf Ninjas. Gtfo. 3 months of LOST threads and I've never seen you bring anything intelligent to the table.

Anyway. If those are red herrings they are the most pointless red herrings ever. Let's say you guys are right. What was the point? What did they add to anything? Nothing. I don't know what else to say. If you're going dismiss credible clues as the writers fuckig with the audience in the final season and ignore obvious consistencies in the broader narrative of LOST then ok. I feel like I'm having the "Christian Shephard" arguement all over again. Chances are I'll come out on the correct side of things with this as well.
I thought the red herrings created a shocking twist as they "hinted" at one obvious conclusion.
We'll see though. It could go either way, but I really hope Jughead just caused the time jump/ indident and nothing more
 

Igoritza

Banned
Staccat0 said:
I thought the red herrings created a shocking twist as they "hinted" at one obvious conclusion.
We'll see though. It could go either way, but I really hope Jughead just caused the time jump/ indident and nothing more

when you time travel, and everything else fails - use the motherfuckin nuclear bomb to make things right again!
 

njean777

Member
Igoritza said:
Should i get started on bomb creating a purgatory ? i have, like, 10.000 reasons why that is retarded ? i see you covered all that with this modern "if its something weird, its magic, if it isnt even magic - its jacob" explanations.


anyways, i found out some other stupid things that bother me:

1. Smokey was imprisoned in a cabin. that much we could gather from previous seasons. and, knowing that Christian appeared here and there, all arround the island - and we latter found out that smokey was Christian - isnt that yet another plothole ?

2. Jacob's lighthouse - ok, so we know that Jacob doesnt have multiple forms, nor can he replicate himself. being corporeal is his actual state (knowing how Ben killed him). So, we are let to conclude that - he spent like, 30 years in that lighthouse, watching whole lives of 360 persons ?

3. Choosing sides - eventually, on whose side is Charles widmore ? he wanted to kill smokey as much as all of the other people in the show, he even braught equimpment for that, but - every other person on the show hated him. even Jacob was all like: "oh snap, they're coming" why ? and the rules, dont get me started on the rules .. every one has them, but no one knows the rules, everyone has a list, but only Jacob actually wrote one, which is inaccurate ...

the rules will never be explained, just comprehend simplicity and roll with the rules.

Widmore is on Jacobs side if we are to believe "what they died for". Ben and Widmore both followed Jacob and listend to him loyally, but Ben got widmore thrown off the island so....

The cabin is a mystery to me also, but i just think Jacob stayed there sometimes?
 

Archaix

Drunky McMurder
Nameless said:
You probably learned the word inconsequential from Surf Ninjas. Gtfo. 3 months of LOST threads and I've never seen you bring anything intelligent to the table.

Anyway. If those are red herrings they are the most pointless red herrings ever. Let's say you guys are right. What was the point? What did they add to anything? Nothing. I don't know what else to say. If you're going dismiss credible clues as the writers fuckig with the audience in the final season and ignore obvious consistencies in the broader narrative of LOST then ok. I feel like I'm having the "Christian Shephard" arguement all over again. Chances are I'll come out on the correct side of things with this as well.


Watch the final retrospective. At roughly 56 minutes, Cuse says "At the beginning of the sixth season, we start on Oceanic 815 and it appears the bomb has worked".

It appears the bomb has worked. That's not the wording that he would choose if the bomb actually did work. He would have said "The bomb created this world" and not used the phrase "appears as though." I doubt that we'll get any more of an answer than that.

After that, Lindelof also heavily implies the bomb doesn't work by saying "Did it happen because the A Bomb went off and it actually sunk the Island, or is there something else going on here?"

They were vague because the finale had yet to air, but their comments heavily imply that the bomb had nothing to do with the sideways.
 

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
Igoritza said:
Should i get started on bomb creating a purgatory ? i have, like, 10.000 reasons why that is retarded ? i see you covered all that with this modern "if its something weird, its magic, if it isnt even magic - its jacob" explanations.


anyways, i found out some other stupid things that bother me:

1. Smokey was imprisoned in a cabin. that much we could gather from previous seasons. and, knowing that Christian appeared here and there, all arround the island - and we latter found out that smokey was Christian - isnt that yet another plothole ?

2. Jacob's lighthouse - ok, so we know that Jacob doesnt have multiple forms, nor can he replicate himself. being corporeal is his actual state (knowing how Ben killed him). So, we are let to conclude that - he spent like, 30 years in that lighthouse, watching whole lives of 360 persons ?

3. Choosing sides - eventually, on whose side is Charles widmore ? he wanted to kill smokey as much as all of the other people in the show, he even braught equimpment for that, but - every other person on the show hated him. even Jacob was all like: "oh snap, they're coming" why ? and the rules, dont get me started on the rules .. every one has them, but no one knows the rules, everyone has a list, but only Jacob actually wrote one, which is inaccurate ...
I agree with parts of what you are saying but other parts seem completely fabricated from nothing.
Again I ask, do you hold DBZ to this same scrutiny?
This theory that LOST sucks just because there are some dangling threads just doesn't make sense.

anyway,
1. We don't know shit about the cabin really. Its hard to call that anything but a big "?"
I think smokey just lived there. The ring of ash was broken. I'll admit the cabin is some weird and shady shit I'm still not happy with.

2. You assume to much here. We don't know how that thing worked or what it was really used for. those 360 people didn't all live at once. Jacob had time and for all we know that shit had a pause function. Its really nothing to do with anything. Just some side flavor to keep shit spooky IMO

3. OKay people hated him. Still he said Jacob came to him and convinced him he was wrong, so... not sure what you mean.

4. Rules- It seems clear jacob made the majority of the rules if not all of them. I'm not sure what you mean really. I think you try to make it too complicated by forgetting people just wrote this shit down to entertain the masses.
I'm just really happy they didn't explain the ules. Anything involving jacob/smokes was more interesting unexplained IMO.
 
scola said:
Okay, it has been almost a week since the finale, and I think I am ready to talk about it in more depth. let me do standard caveats that this is all IMO, And I don't think the last episode was bad, I just don't like the resolution it brought to the series. I also don't think the wreckage at the end was Ajira or that the island was purgatory so you can separate me from the crazy group.

The short review is:
I didn't like it.

The long review is:
I think season 6 was fundamentally flawed in its conception, and the ultimate gambit of that plays out in the finale, making me not enjoy the episode on total. I don't have a problem specifically with giving the characters an epilogue, but from the beginning of season 6 I said I would be disappointed if that was what the entirety of X was. Either in the form of limbo or in a hard reset where they regain their experiences. So at the outset this wasn't going to be a resolution I enjoyed.

I think a big reason for disliking the X resolution in hindsight is how it minimized the impact of certain events throughout the season:

The impact of the deaths of Sun/Jin, Sayid and even Juliet were all lessened for me because I was watching everyone running around in X. I was believing that these characters were all alive and well still, and it took all semblance of tragedy out of it. Retroactively discovering that they were "dead and well" instead of alive and well did not fundamentally change this. In fact it may even reduce the emotional impact even further than initially, unlike say, finding out at the end of season 5 that Locke was really MIB and Locke was really gone.

This extends beyond deaths as well, X being purgatory just really lowers the stakes of all of season 6 for me. I was not convinced that the entire world and life itself were at stake if Smokey left. Damon & Carelton can say on a podcast that smokey is evil incarnate all they want, they didn't set this up within the framework of the show effectively, and where they did touch on it in the show, they ultimately diluted it with X or by other means. Did they really save the world? There is not sufficient information to make this assertion, and it's easy to interpret the characters who told us the stakes were immense were either lying, or just didn't really know themselves. I kept expecting things to go real bad in X to show was why this was still so important.

I also didn't like the way X was structured to intentionally mislead the viewer. The cold open from the bomb to LA X, the island being underwater, Juliets "It worked" from beyond the grave etc. I don't mind a red herring now and then, but this was fundamentally intended to mislead people who pay close attention. This is the opposite of what they did in the Season 3 finale where they left some clues out in the open.

I won't dive into how the hug-o-thon in the church was awful fanservice, or how X itself felt like fanfic, others have covered this better than me.
"Bu bubu bu bu it was a world created by flawed individuals!"
Who? Lindelcuse are flawed? You just told me how godly they were ;)

I understand the writers desires to give these characters happy endings, and I understand a fans attachment to that sort of resolution. We loved these characters, and they all deserved a happy ending. But Lost was a drama, and a lot of great drama and writing that D&C were inspired by has its share of tragedy. The only "Brave storytelling" was not giving in to the incessant whining of "Answers" and leaving the truly inconsequential things open.

But, my absolute BIGGEST complaint with the purgatory idea is that these characters somehow NEEDED this world to move on. I think it cheapens the growth they had during the show.

Don't tell me Jack needed to fix John, or talk to his Dad to be able to let go and move on. When he smiled at Ajira, and shut his eye with his last breath he had already learned to let go. When he told Flocke that he wished he could have told John he was right when he was still alive he had already learned to let go. When he saved Desmond and bathed in Radioactive Gatorade to return the cork he had learned to let go. These characters didn't DO anything in the X world that redeemed or completed their souls, they were just there and had memories of what they had already done. I think most of our favorite characters had come to these resolutions in their own time on the show, and to say that they all needed to see each other again to realize this is a disservice to the character arcs they had already established so strongly.

I would only really change one thing in the finale: when Hurley asked Ben to be number 2. They went so crazy for echoed dialog this season but they missed a PERFECT opportunity for Hurley to echo Jacob and say "What about you" in a completely different tone and to different affect. "I could really use someone with a lot of experience to help me... What about you?"

Now a couple of things I loved about the finale.
Jack's "falcon punch" on Locke
Hurley becoming the protector
Laurel and HardyBen + Hurley island bros 4 life:D
Having the balls to show more new mysteries knowing they would never be resolved (the cuneiform on the cork, the other skeletons in the source etc.)
The final shot with Jack and the dog
Richard's Gray Hair

In closing I leave with this to blow your mind on: The island was purgatory the whole time
for Jacob ... :D :D :D
;)

Pretty much agreed. S6 isn't much more than a giant fanfic.

Good point on the MIB. There's not a single point in the season where you get a sense that he poses a threat to the outside world, or his escape will doom everyone. Why should I care whether he leaves the island or not? That lack of emotional relevance makes a good deal of the season lack any tension imo. Instead I got the impression the MIB simply wanted to explore a world he was told didn't exist, and was being persecuted by his mother and Jacob for no reason.

"He's pure evil" doesn't work when it's not explained. But that kinda goes for most of the season. IE vague non-answers that reek of the writers grasping at straws (protect this ray of light, the island has...electromagnetism!, etc).
 

btrick

Member
tGQhS.jpg


I've watched this thing 4 times this week. It never stops being amazing. Look at that!
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Serious question -

If there were to be a LOST spin-off, and I completely agree that that's probably a terrible idea - but let's just say IF. It's inevitable. It's happening. Anyway, if there were to be a spin-off, what should it be?

My original thought was it should be set in the past, showing the discovery of the island by the group that would eventually morph into Dharma. The problem with this setup is... well there's several. It's a rich time period and they could probably mine a lot of drama out of it, but it seems like it would be hard for them to move the mythology along, because we already know that our losties revealed much more of the island than they did.

But a show set in the future is tough, as well. You'd get some nice moments of them discovering stuff on the island from the original series... and not just the wreckage. But the show would also not be able to avoid the temptation of revealing what happened to the surviving original cast members in a 2nd hand fashion. Screenshotting newspapers to reveal that convict Kate Austen excaped prison, or something. And that would be like sacrilege.

The more I thought about it, the more I realized that despite it's dangling plot threads, LOST really is a tightly woven package. It seems like there's almost no space in this universe to take it and grow it farther. Yeah it would be nice to see the adventures of Hurley and Ben, but it's not something a new story could hang its hat on.
 

Kurtofan

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Pretty much agreed. S6 isn't much more than a giant fanfic.

Good point on the MIB. There's not a single point in the season where you get a sense that he poses a threat to the outside world, or his escape will doom everyone. Why should I care whether he leaves the island or not? That lack of emotional relevance makes a good deal of the season lack any tension imo. Instead I got the impression the MIB simply wanted to explore a world he was told didn't exist, and was being persecuted by his mother and Jacob for no reason.

"He's pure evil" doesn't work when it's not explained. But that kinda goes for most of the season. IE vague non-answers that reek of the writers grasping at straws (protect this ray of light, the island has...electromagnetism!, etc).
Really you don't understand why he is dangerous or evil?
He tried to kill all the candidates by blowing up a sub(he managed to kill three)
He killed all the others and Widmore's men.
He's a fucking SMOKE MONSTER who destroys everything in its way.
He threatened to kill Rose and Bernard.
He's a cold blooded killer with supernatural powers,don't know what else you need.
 
Kurtofan said:
Really you don't understand why he is dangerous or evil?
He tried to kill all the candidates by blowing up a sub(he managed to kill three)
He killed all the others and Widmore's men.
He's a fucking SMOKE MONSTER who destroys everything in its way.
He threatened to kill Rose and Bernard.
He's a cold blooded killer with supernatural powers,don't know what else you need.

And this translates to him being the bane of humanity if he escapes the island...how exactly? I get that he's dangerous, I just never bought the idea that he was some major threat to the entire world.
 

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
Speaking of MiB. One complaint i have, was the lack of tension associated with him leaving the island. It's one thing that was poorly explained in the series IMO

Really you don't understand why he is dangerous or evil?
He tried to kill all the candidates by blowing up a sub(he managed to kill three)
He killed all the others and Widmore's men.
He's a fucking SMOKE MONSTER who destroys everything in its way.
He threatened to kill Rose and Bernard.
He's a cold blooded killer with supernatural powers,don't know what else you need.
Yep, he's pretty close to pure evil in the series.:p i actually find it kind of sickening that we have smokey sympathizers. I mean sure the stuff he went through in AtS was tough, but it dosen't make up for all the shit he's done.:lol
 

G-Fex

Member
PhoenixDark said:
And this translates to him being the bane of humanity if he escapes the island...how exactly? I get that he's dangerous, I just never bought the idea that he was some major threat to the entire world.

I'm pretty sure he's not going to stop killing just cause he's off the island.

If he has power why should he act just like everyone else? He's not human anymore anyways.
 

Kurtofan

Member
PhoenixDark said:
And this translates to him being the bane of humanity if he escapes the island...how exactly? I get that he's dangerous, I just never bought the idea that he was some major threat to the entire world.
Even if he made it outside the Island,he would have never fitted...
-He was born on the Island,he never left it:The Island was his only home.He would have been disappointed by his "true home" sooner or later.
-He's not a normal human being :he's immortal,made out of smoke and he has the appearance of another human being.
-he doesn't hesitate to kill to get what he wants and considering his powers noone would have been able to stop him once he left the Island.Preventing him from leaving was some kind of preemptive measure.
 
Kurtofan said:
Even if he made it outside the Island,he would have never fitted...
-He was born on the Island,he never left it:The Island was his only home.He would have been disappointed by his "true home" sooner or later.
-He's not a normal human being :he's immortal,made out of smoke and he has the appearance of another human being.
-he doesn't hesitate to kill to get what he wants and considering his powers noone would have been able to stop him once he left the Island.Preventing him from leaving was some kind of preemptive measure.

But he has no powers once the cork is pulled...he was just normal. So there was no threat. He pulled the plug, lost his powers, got the ability to leave, and that was that. He was just a mortal dude at that point. Yes, he was still a murdering bastard, but the 'smoke monster' part of him was gone.

Therefore what's the threat?
 

Dead

well not really...yet
CartridgeBlower said:
But he has no powers once the cork is pulled...he was just normal. So there was no threat. He pulled the plug, lost his powers, got the ability to leave, and that was that. He was just a normal dude at that point. Yes, he was still a murdering bastard, but the 'smoke monster' part of him was gone.

Therefore what's the threat?
He had to die for what he did to the characters...

Just because he isn't smoke anymore doesn't mean he isn't a scumfuck piece of shit.
 
Dead said:
He had to die for what he did to the characters...

Just because he isn't smoke anymore doesn't mean he isn't a scumfuck piece of shit.

Yes, as I said, he was still a bastard and I could see why Jack and the rest of the Losties would want to kill him. But the whole 'he's a threat to humanity if he leaves the island' angle was complete and utter bullshit, because he no longer had any special powers.
 

Dead

well not really...yet
CartridgeBlower said:
Yes, as I said, he was still a bastard and I could see why Jack and the rest of the Losties would want to kill him. But the whole 'he's a threat to humanity if he leaves the island' angle was complete and utter bullshit, because he no longer had any special powers.
He wasn't originally going to deactivate the Island. So, no, it wasn't complete bullshit.

He didn't know he would lose his powers either.
 
PhoenixDark said:
Pretty much agreed. S6 isn't much more than a giant fanfic.

Good point on the MIB. There's not a single point in the season where you get a sense that he poses a threat to the outside world, or his escape will doom everyone. Why should I care whether he leaves the island or not? That lack of emotional relevance makes a good deal of the season lack any tension imo. Instead I got the impression the MIB simply wanted to explore a world he was told didn't exist, and was being persecuted by his mother and Jacob for no reason.

"He's pure evil" doesn't work when it's not explained. But that kinda goes for most of the season. IE vague non-answers that reek of the writers grasping at straws (protect this ray of light, the island has...electromagnetism!, etc).

LOL dis guy

He has a problem that he didnt believe MiB proved a thread to the outside world, but yet he has no problem being fooled that Jack Bauer will be defeated and Terrorists will reign for the 8th year in a row :lol
 
CartridgeBlower said:
Yes, as I said, he was still a bastard and I could see why Jack and the rest of the Losties would want to kill him. But the whole 'he's a threat to humanity if he leaves the island' angle was complete and utter bullshit, because he no longer had any special powers.
Heres the thing, if they didn't recork the hole, the Island would have been destroyed as would have the world (according to Jacob, Hawking and Widmore everyone they knew and love would have been gone). Recorking the hole restored the powers to the Island which in turn would restore powers to Smokey.
 
infinityBCRT said:
Heres the thing, if they didn't recork the hole, the Island would have been destroyed as would have the world (according to Jacob, Hawking and Widmore everyone they knew and love would have been gone). Recorking the hole restored the powers to the Island which in turn would restore powers to Smokey.

Yeah I agree this is the way to reconcile it. You have to assume that this is what Jacob was talking about, not the fact that MiB would go around committing mass genocide or something if he left the island. It's more that the PROCESS of him leaving the island would cause the island to self-destruct, thus bringing some sort of ultimate destruction to the rest of the world.

I can go with this.

What I'm truly not clear on is why getting close to the light like MiB did turns you into a smoke monster. If it's some type of protection so no one can get close ot the cork, why doesn't it just kill you? Was it a punishment to tether him to the island, and if so, why? What purpose did this serve the island?
 

Dead

well not really...yet
CartridgeBlower said:
Yeah I agree this is the way to reconcile it. You have to assume that this is what Jacob was talking about, not the fact that MiB would go around committing genocide if he left the island. It's more that the PROCESS of him leaving the island would cause the island to self-destruct, thus bringing some sort of ultimate destruction.
yes and no.

MIB originally leaving only entailed killing the Candidates. Once they were all dead he would be able to leave the Island. Still in smoke form, still with some of the Island power inside him.
 
Dead said:
yes and no.

MIB originally leaving only entailed killing the Candidates. Once they were all dead he would be able to leave the Island. Still in smoke form, still with some of the Island power inside him.

So then he's a total idiot for trying to destroy the island in the first place? His motivation has always been to get off the island, yet in the last episode it suddenly switches to destroying it, even though he finally (after 2000 years of waiting) has what he wants?

That's so fucking ludicrous it almost kills the entire finale for me.
 

hamchan

Member
Lafiel said:
Yep, he's pretty close to pure evil in the series.:p i actually find it kind of sickening that we have smokey sympathizers. I mean sure the stuff he went through in AtS was tough, but it dosen't make up for all the shit he's done.:lol

Thing is, if I was in his position I would have probably done the same thing. He was a prisoner on the island for 2000 years, that's more than enough time to push anyone over the edge. I understand that he has killed and tried to kill all the characters we know and love but from his viewpoint the Losties are no different from the other people that have come and gone over the years.

Also reading Lostpedia:

The Man in Black retained the ability to assume his human form, but Jacob confined him to the Island, believing it a prison that restricted his "darkness"

What the fuck Jacob? Jacob is such an asshole. He could have just let him go free.
Now I really don't blame smokey for trying to kill the Losties since the main reason they were brought to the island was to replace Jacob. Very understandable why he would try to kill them :lol
 

Dead

well not really...yet
Why wouldnt he want to destroy it?

He hates the place. Has been stuck there for 2000 years.

From the looks of it, he had no clue it would render him mortal again too.

This was foreshadowed back in Ab Aeterno, when MIB shattered the wine bottle at the end.
 
Dead said:
Why wouldnt he want to destroy it?

He hates the place. Has been stuck there for 2000 years.

From the looks of it, he had no clue it would render him mortal again too.

This was foreshadowed back in Ab Aeterno, when MIB shattered the wine bottle at the end.

It's just the classic bad guy trope of going back for one last kill when all you have to do is walk away. Such a cliche that early Lost usually seemed to rise above on a continual basis. It's an idiotic plan, too, because guess what, it gets him killed in the end and prevents him from leaving.

Like I said before, for being the show's main antagonist, he just ended up being rather stupid.
 

Kurtofan

Member
Dead said:
Why wouldnt he want to destroy it?

He hates the place. Has been stuck there for 2000 years.

From the looks of it, he had no clue it would render him mortal again too.

This was foreshadowed back in Ab Aeterno, when MIB shattered the wine bottle at the end.
Exactly he didn't need to destroy it but he wanted to do it.That was a way for him to get rid of the past.
There was no way he could have predicted that it would go wrong.
Edit:^^ No I think he needed it to "move on".Of course he could have left without doing that but he'd know the island would be there somewhere...
 
Kurtofan said:
Exactly he didn't need to destroy it but he wanted to do it.That was a way for him to get rid of the past.
There was no way he could have predicted that it would go wrong.

What would happen after pulling out the cork was definitely unpredictable, and that's exaclty what makes MiB look so dumb for doing it.

It's just lame that the end of the ENTIRE SERIES basically revolves around him making an idiotic mistake, and not the clever heroics of our main characters.
 

Kurtofan

Member
CartridgeBlower said:
My point is, the end of the ENTIRE SERIES basically revolves around him making an idiotic mistake, and not the clever heroics of our main characters.
I think he needed it to "move on".Of course he could have left without doing that but he'd know the island would be there somewhere...
It was a mistake but he could have solved it by killing Jack and the others and pulling back the cork(even if the plane would be gone at that point :lol)
 
Igoritza said:
Should i get started on bomb creating a purgatory ? i have, like, 10.000 reasons why that is retarded ? i see you covered all that with this modern "if its something weird, its magic, if it isnt even magic - its jacob" explanations.
The bomb didn't create purgatory. The bomb closed off the hole that Dharma drilled. When they drilled into the pocket of energy they essentially uncorked whatever was under the hole in the cave. The Losties time-flashed out at the same time (presumably because either Jacob brought them back or the Island protected them from being killed because many of them were candidates).

What Dharma eventually did was create the Swan Hatch to control the amount of energy that they were siphoning out of the pocket of electromagnetic energy (likely an extremely tiny amount) so that they could manipulate it for time travel. The Island wasn't destabilizing as quickly as it was when the energy was just straight out uncorked. But it required the button to be pressed every 108 minutes to discharge or "recork" that pocket of energy so that the Island would remain stable. When Desmond turns the fail-safe key, the fail-safe mechanism in the Hatch ends up closing whatever hole they have opened up into the pocket of energy and thus the Island is stable again.

1. Smokey was imprisoned in a cabin. that much we could gather from previous seasons. and, knowing that Christian appeared here and there, all arround the island - and we latter found out that smokey was Christian - isnt that yet another plothole ?
The Jacob's Cabin thing was a ruse to trick Ben and Locke to set into motion a series of events which would result in Locke dying and everyone accepting Locke as the leader of the Island when he was "resurrected".

2. Jacob's lighthouse - ok, so we know that Jacob doesnt have multiple forms, nor can he replicate himself. being corporeal is his actual state (knowing how Ben killed him). So, we are let to conclude that - he spent like, 30 years in that lighthouse, watching whole lives of 360 persons ?
I don't think we know the full nature of the Island protector. I've kinda come away with the belief that the protector can make anything happen as long as he believes in it. But sometimes there are some "props" to enhance that. For example, they use the drinking of the water/wine to indicate acceptance of the protector role. I also think the protector has some innate knowledge of what should happen. Jack didn't know exactly how he'd end up killing MiB but he had faith that he would do it and followed his gut. Jacob may have performed as the protector of the Island in the same way.

3. Choosing sides - eventually, on whose side is Charles widmore ? he wanted to kill smokey as much as all of the other people in the show, he even braught equimpment for that, but - every other person on the show hated him. even Jacob was all like: "oh snap, they're coming" why ? and the rules, dont get me started on the rules .. every one has them, but no one knows the rules, everyone has a list, but only Jacob actually wrote one, which is inaccurate ...
Widmore wanted to control the Island's powers, much like Dharma did. However, Jacob likely explained to him that the Island's powers are much more than just a toy. The Island was literally a lynchpin that kept the world from coming apart.

As far as the rules go... I think its left up to our own interpretation, but there are some hints to what it is. We know that the protector makes up his own rules. Perhaps Ben requested (to Jacob) that his daughter be protected or those that are important to him be protected. Just before Keamy kills Alex, Ben proceeds to say stuff like "shes not my daughter", "shes a pawn", "she means nothing to me", "so if you want to kill her, go ahead and do it". And then Keamy kills her just as he says that last sentence. Perhaps unknowingly, he made her unimportant and it ended up opening the possibility of her being killed. I'm not sure if Zoe was also able to be killed because of what Widmore said, but the situations are eerily similar.

I'm not sure which list you're talking about. It was mentioned at one point that Jack wasn't on Jacob's list. Perhaps originally Jack wasn't on the list and Jacob changed his mind. He does cross Kate off the list but then tells her that shes still a candidate if she wants to be one. So that shows that the lists were never set in stone.
 

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
hamchan said:
What the fuck Jacob? Jacob is such an asshole. He could have just let him go free.
Now I really don't blame smokey for trying to kill the Losties since the main reason they were brought to the island was to replace Jacob. Very understandable why he would try to kill them :lol
What? why would he let him go free. Considering they were probably consequences for doing such a thing.:lol
 

hamchan

Member
How does a bomb exploding send the Losties to forward in time anyways?

I really need to watch the whole series again, already starting to forget stuff.

Lafiel said:
What? why would he let him go free. Considering they were probably consequences for doing such a thing.:lol

Like what? The show never really explained why it was so bad for this dude to leave the island.
 

duckroll

Member
Jacob is an asshole. I think we can all agree on this. Regardless of his intentions or whatever, he is an asshole. Now, the more interesting question is: was Jacob right? Is there any danger in letting Smokey leave the island? Is he some evil force which will destroy the world? Is the island even important? Will the world end if the light goes out for good? No one really knows. Jacob could have been right, he could have been wrong. But the bottom line is that none of the characters actually wanted to find out the hard way if Jacob was right.

If Jacob is right, and they decided to find out the hard way, it could very well end up like the hatch in season 2. No one knew if the button pressing was really doing anything or if it was even important. Locke decided to find out the hard way. He was wrong. The island is the same thing on a larger scale. If they were wrong, and Jacob was right, then finding out for sure would mean really bad things for the world. :lol
 

Blair

Banned
cdj1n3aru_phpzN8dktAM.jpg
dxb58qys2_phpSGT2AIAM.jpg

qdd4h4aqs_phpYmhM7nAM.jpg
vp3zvk0yr_php3gdkNAAM.jpg

pwkfsiusz_php0fo9W4AM.jpg


Thanks for the link earlier in the thread (or last thread, i forget), awesome shirt. Now i will have people come up to me saying 'LOL YOU WASTED 6 YEARS, THEY WERE ALL DEAD HURRRRRRRRRR'
 

hamchan

Member
Kurtofan said:
Come on we just had a discussion about this :lol
Just read the posts above.

See I agree with this post:

Really you don't understand why he is dangerous or evil?
He tried to kill all the candidates by blowing up a sub(he managed to kill three)
He killed all the others and Widmore's men.
He's a fucking SMOKE MONSTER who destroys everything in its way.
He threatened to kill Rose and Bernard.
He's a cold blooded killer with supernatural powers,don't know what else you need.

but this is stuff 2000 years after he turned into smokey.

I'm thinking about immediately after he turned into smokey. What had he done then that he deserved to be trapped on the island by Jacob?
The show never tells and that frustrates me. The only answer is that Jacob is a jerk.
 

kaizoku

I'm not as deluded as I make myself out to be
I could write so much about this show but will try and keep it brief.

why keep smokey on the island? was it really wrong to have him leave? jacob kept him there because he was told to, the losties killed him because they were told they would all die if he got away.

likewise, man in black was told he couldnt leave unless he killed all the candidates. its all blind faith and a self fulfilling prophecy.

basically they were all pressing a button over and over again because they were all told to.

Its not about religion, its about faith, religion just happens to be what people tend to put their faith in, others in science.
 

Kurtofan

Member
hamchan said:
See I agree with this post:



but this is stuff 2000 years after he turned into smokey.

I'm thinking about immediately after he turned into smokey. What had he done then that he deserved to be trapped on the island by Jacob?
The show never tells and that frustrates me. The only answer is that Jacob is a jerk.
I agree with you on that point.Jacob is a jerk and was obsessed with his "mother"(the only person he ever talked to with his brother) and he became crazy after MIB killed her.
He probably thought he had to keep MIB because that's what his "mother" wanted.
 
You know, maybe there wasn't much justification for not letting MIB leave 2000 years ago, but a man who can turn himself in to fucking smoke? We need justification for not letting him leave the island now?
 
kaizoku said:
I could write so much about this show but will try and keep it brief.

why keep smokey on the island? was it really wrong to have him leave? jacob kept him there because he was told to, the losties killed him because they were told they would all die if he got away.

likewise, man in black was told he couldnt leave unless he killed all the candidates. its all blind faith and a self fulfilling prophecy.

basically they were all pressing a button over and over again because they were all told to.

Its not about religion, its about faith, religion just happens to be what people tend to put their faith in, others in science.

As a smoke monster, it was absolutely wrong to let him leave. He hates humanity and he's shown an incredible amount of ruthlessness when he doesn't get what he wants. There's no reason to think he would stop just because he got off the island.

Jacob was a dick, but MIB wasn't innocent either. He was a killer even if he was justified, and he only got worse after becoming a smoke monster.

Then when he became mortal, he had to deal with our characters and the consequences of his actions. He didn't deserve to leave the island at that point.
 

Solo

Member
Blair said:
cdj1n3aru_phpzN8dktAM.jpg
dxb58qys2_phpSGT2AIAM.jpg

qdd4h4aqs_phpYmhM7nAM.jpg
vp3zvk0yr_php3gdkNAAM.jpg

pwkfsiusz_php0fo9W4AM.jpg


Thanks for the link earlier in the thread (or last thread, i forget), awesome shirt. Now i will have people come up to me saying 'LOL YOU WASTED 6 YEARS, THEY WERE ALL DEAD HURRRRRRRRRR'

Small?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom