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LTTP: Dark Souls 2
- Thread starter Anon67
- Start date
You're comparing a regular castle to the literal city of the gods.For me, there is one comparison really showing why I dislike Dark Souls 2 so much. This is important: I'm not saying that THIS specific example is the one reason I have big problems with the game. I think this game just encapusaltes many of the problems I have with it, especially regarding the lore, atmosphere and world design.
In Dark Souls I fought my way through a huge, impressive looking castle. There was a member of the king's family waiting inside there, in a chamber that looked like this:
Yup! Looks pretty royal to me!
Now, how would a throne room look in Dark Souls 2? Maybe a little more drab because the kingdom has been crushed? Withered beauty and all? Well, nope, instead it's just a square room with a few pillars and two thrones at the other end:
These utterly empty square rooms are ALL OVER Dark Souls 2. Just empty square rooms with maybe a few probs inside them. At times I felt like I was running through some randomly generated environments because they looked so slapped together. Especially the castle is full of those rooms that make absolutely no sense in the game world, neither asthetically, nor architectural. This stuff is the exact opposite of everything Dark Souls stands for.
I think you need to find certain items to access the three DLCs in SotFS. Now where those items are located? No idea.
roadrunn3r
Member
I've rarely seen positive LTTP threads where people feel the need to post "the game is bad/sucks" comments for the 1000th time. Some Souls fans are just something else.
😨
On topic:
I think a lot of the hate is from hype. People went in expecting a repeat of one of the greatest games of all time, were dissapointed when they got a 9.5/10, and forgot all the flaws in the first one. The second isn't as good of a game judged critically, but I played and enjoyed it far more. I enjoyed the branching paths, because you didn't end up walking through the same parts 1000 times.
In particular, people forgot the grab attacks in 1, the gank squads in 1, and the technical flaws.
It's even shitting up the Dark Souls 3 thread constantly.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
For me, there is one comparison really showing why I dislike Dark Souls 2 so much. This is important: I'm not saying that THIS specific example is the one reason I have big problems with the game. I think this game just encapusaltes many of the problems I have with it, especially regarding the lore, atmosphere and world design.
In Dark Souls I fought my way through a huge, impressive looking castle. There was a member of the king's family waiting inside there, in a chamber that looked like this:
Yup! Looks pretty royal to me!
Now, how would a throne room look in Dark Souls 2? Maybe a little more drab because the kingdom has been crushed? Withered beauty and all? Well, nope, instead it's just a square room with a few pillars and two thrones at the other end:
These utterly empty square rooms are ALL OVER Dark Souls 2. Just empty square rooms with maybe a few probs inside them. At times I felt like I was running through some randomly generated environments because they looked so slapped together. Especially the castle is full of those rooms that make absolutely no sense in the game world, neither asthetically, nor architectural. This stuff is the exact opposite of everything Dark Souls stands for.
Or given that the main servant is outside the room this is likely a place to take court, whereas the other "throne room" was merely an illusion of Nashandra.
Slick Butter
Member
I know that one is
just at the entrance to the iron keep, a calming bull trap is protecting it. This gives you access to the salamander pit in forest of Giants
requires the forgotten key from black gulch, and then using the most expensive ladder for the Majula pit
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Explains a lot.
Look at how bland looking this game is:
In comparison look at how gorgeous this game is!
Ignore my cherry-picking, Dark Souls just sucks artistically, period!
/s
I know right? What are they even doing here? I should listen to my own advice and ignore them really. Dammit, sorry everyone for continuing this nonsense.
Wow really. Glad I'm avoiding those. I hope the OT won't become all lame like that.
You don't need to use the ladder, you can just drop down to that place if you aim correctly (and wear the Silvercat ring). ^^
Astral Dog
Member
Definetly would not make a good birthday present.
You know they will still hate
the only way they wouldn't is if ds3 was worse, but since it's likely to be an improvement they'll just continue with their literal hypocritical cries forever.And yeah the ring works too
just a bit more danger to it lolStraid, you need a fragrant branch though
glad you're enjoying it op, the flexibility you have with builds and play styles is one of the things I love most about ds2. Dark magic is a fun way to romp through ng + btw. I infused a boss weapon with dark which was a halberd with a skull on the end, can't remember the name but I loved that character so much. And a load of hexes are v strong esp if you get some fast casting rings or gear, good times.
Why are YOU in this thread? You only make aggressive, arrogant responses to people that don't share your opinion, just like you did in another thread.
How many "empty" square rooms does Dark Souls have compared to Dark Souls 2? A few in Anor Londo? Well you'll have trouble finding a room in a building from Dark Souls 2 that isn't a square room with no props at all or just stupid random stuff like random stone statues or a pillar or two, the whole Drangleic Castle is a complete mess that makes no sense whatsoever. There are completely empty rooms through the whole game that are there just to have one of the countless, pointless bonfires for god's sake, it's ridiculous.
There were some levels that looked like they were designed just for the player in previous games but for the most part it was a believable world. In Dark Souls 2 every single level seems to be made just for the player to go through it, they just don't care about making a castle that looks like a place that was once used as an actual castle, they just create big empty rooms with generic pillars, add random enemies and chests with filler consumables and call it a day.
So he is right you know, just because you post three images of something that supposedly looks like Dark Souls 2 shitty level design doesn't mean the whole game is like that. The room with the first bonfire in the Undead Burg does look like an actual room that had an use and has been transformed into that anyways, the anor londo one is too empty
In
lost bastille right before sinners ruse, there's upstairs cells that are full of mummies, one is blocked by a stone statute, unfreeze him, he is strait and trades boss souls, the second vendor needs to be rescued from the lion dudes. One of the lion guys near he bonfire on a cliff face is stone, unfreeze and kill him to get claw key, the drop down the trap pit that had the armour destroying goo.
Open the iron door and talk to whatever is in there, she's the second seller but you have to meet her in a different area, her ship is I front of the giant sand sink thing
Open the iron door and talk to whatever is in there, she's the second seller but you have to meet her in a different area, her ship is I front of the giant sand sink thing
psychotron
Member
Thanks. I'll have to look for that.
GrandHarrier
Member
Oh man I loved Ds2. It may have just been the experience I had in how I built my character but it's probably my favorite of all the games. I didn't mind the relative lack of interconnectivity because it was just such a great experience. Probably the best experience I had with online too.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
I'm glad you enjoyed it OP. Was a huge letdown for me for a number of reasons, but
opinions are opinions. The emptiness is a legit concern that they appear to have addressed in DS3. The walk from Majula to Heide's Tower and from Majula to the Forest is just a completely sterile castle tunnel with some water. No enemies. No decorations. No breakable pots. No broken swords or piles of bodies or discarded armor. The game looks more like Everybody's Gone To The Rapture than a world that was supposedly a ravaged kingdom. Of course, not every place is like that, but it was pretty darn empty compared to every other Soulsborne title.
I'm excited that DS3 appears to be taking some of the best things from DS2 and mixing it with the best stuff from other Soulsborne games.
opinions are opinions. The emptiness is a legit concern that they appear to have addressed in DS3. The walk from Majula to Heide's Tower and from Majula to the Forest is just a completely sterile castle tunnel with some water. No enemies. No decorations. No breakable pots. No broken swords or piles of bodies or discarded armor. The game looks more like Everybody's Gone To The Rapture than a world that was supposedly a ravaged kingdom. Of course, not every place is like that, but it was pretty darn empty compared to every other Soulsborne title.
I'm excited that DS3 appears to be taking some of the best things from DS2 and mixing it with the best stuff from other Soulsborne games.
tamaster92
Member
Been playing through SOFTS the first time before DS3 too OP. I don't like it as much as 1 or bloodborne but it's still very fun. Some of the enemy designs are amazing (that skull frog thing my god)
The whole King first reveal is cool too
The whole King first reveal is cool too
Haha, guy didn't even read the OP and just brought his axe to grind.
My thoughts exactly for ds3, focusing on all the past strengths is the perfect way to go for it.
Now, how would a throne room look in Dark Souls 2? Maybe a little more drab because the kingdom has been crushed? Withered beauty and all? Well, nope, instead it's just a square room with a few pillars and two thrones at the other end:
There's actually a very good reason why that room is mostly empty.
Why do you think all those bloodstains are there? It's a miniboss room in NG+ where you fight two Pursuers.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Only? No, that's some mighty selective reading you got going. How about you read my first post in this thread? Here I'm responding to haters (which I really shouldn't be doing) sometimes, but I came in this thread to talk about Dark Souls 2 with the OP and give him tips. Whereas you are here just to shit up this thread for no reason. And with this, I'm done contributing to doing the same. Off to ignore you go.
You can trade boss souls to
Straid in the Lost Bastille
Ornifex in Brightstone Cove Tseldora
rescue her in Shaded Woods first (with the fang key) and then later meet her in Tseldora, at the bottom by that huge pit in the sand.
Oracle Dragon
Member
This right here... I'm currently doing a replay of Dark Souls to prep for Dark Souls 3, and A LOT of the complaints people throw against DS2 are present in the first game as well. Inconsistent areas, gank squads, etc. Don't get me wrong, I have hundreds of hours in them both and love both games. However if you're the kind of person posting that Dark Souls is the pinnacle of the series and DS2 is trash, take off the rose tinted glasses... the games are not that different. Some things are better in the first game, and others are better in the second.
OP:
1: My god, upgrade your weapons. I blame this on Dark Souls (and by relation Demons Souls). They were so stingy with the upgrade materials, especially slabs in the first game, that I was always waffling on what I wanted to upgrade or not. In makes more of a difference in the first game since you need upgraded weapons to get the boss soul weapons. In DS2, feel free to go nuts and +10 (or at least +9) any weapon you are having fun using. The way the upgrades work a difference of +/- 1 is not a big deal anyway, don't worry about having a 9 instead of a 10. If your worried about upgrade mats, farm out smooth stones using the small soapstone in co-op and just trade them in at the crows, you will get more than you know what to do with.
2: NG+ is the biggest leap from NG. By comparison NG++ is a more minor change over NG+. Parry is a very good skill to have against the invaders, nothing to do except practice. If you have trouble get a buckler or a parry dagger, those make it a bit easier.
3: Use a bow in Iron Keep. You don't actually need to, once you are in there a lot you can body pull almost everyone as singles just from knowing where to stand. But you can just shoot them with a bow. The best place to do this from is the first room up the stairs from the flaming bull statue. Clear our the knights in there, and then stand in the doorway and pull Knights into the room one at a time. You don't HAVE to kill them all, you can just run past them to the boss if you want. But you get a lot of souls this way.
Have some fun with the game, it responds quite well to different builds. If you want to do faith, go for it. Especially with SoTFS there are so many respec items, don't worry about messing up your build. You can mix FTH and INT yes. Don't expect to be as powerful in the individual sorceries or miracles as a pure caster, but it's more than serviceable. As a bonus you get hexes as well which in general more than make up for any power deficiency in the other schools. There is no downside to adding in pyromancy, other than losing attunement slots for your other spells.
Yup every single time ds2 is mentioned people do that. It's really ridiculous, you'd think the game killed their dog :/
Phew, jesus, first DS2 thread I actually participate in, but I'll probably think twice about that in the future. Some of you guys seem real angry.
I was really, really, trying to make sure that everyone understands that my comparison was supposed to be a representation of my feelings toward Dark Souls 2. Obviously you can take an ugly DS1 room, compare it to a pretty one from DS2 and make that same point. If that's what you felt like when playing DS1.
I remember playing DS2 (on release day btw, when all of the people I knew where loving it and without having a shred of a doubt that this is going to be just as great as DS1, so please don't even start with the "You wanted to hate it because B-Team!"-stuff) that I was constantly bemoaning the art design and world building. I regularly said to my friends "Man, look at this, this room looks really bad!" When I think back to Dark Souls 2, the feeling I got when I encountered these rooms represents best what I feel about DS2 as a whole. That's why I made that comparison and that's why I said very, veeery clearly that this comparison wasn't a case of "Hey! This one thing looks better than that other thing! Clearly the one thing is better!".
It's a representation of my feeling towards the games. When I think of Dark Souls, I think of Anor Londo and a world I got 100% lost in and (in the context of this fantasy world) believable architecture and how everything seemed to have a purpose of why it looked the way it did. When I think of Dark Souls 2, I think of that throne room and the windmill and drabness - and not Majula or Heide's Tower of Flame, even though those look pretty great! My negative impressions of Dark Souls 2 overpowed the things I liked about it, while it was the other way around with DS1. I actually made a Let's Play with DS2 and you can actively see me going from "FUCK YEAH! HOLY SHIT! MAJULA! THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER!" to "Maaaan...this is kinda lame..." over the course of a few dozen hours. Not because someone told me a B-Team made the game or because EpicNameBro didn't like it or because it was cool to hate it, but because I legitimately feel like DS2 lacks much of what made Dark Souls so great to me and quite a few others.
I was really, really, trying to make sure that everyone understands that my comparison was supposed to be a representation of my feelings toward Dark Souls 2. Obviously you can take an ugly DS1 room, compare it to a pretty one from DS2 and make that same point. If that's what you felt like when playing DS1.
I remember playing DS2 (on release day btw, when all of the people I knew where loving it and without having a shred of a doubt that this is going to be just as great as DS1, so please don't even start with the "You wanted to hate it because B-Team!"-stuff) that I was constantly bemoaning the art design and world building. I regularly said to my friends "Man, look at this, this room looks really bad!" When I think back to Dark Souls 2, the feeling I got when I encountered these rooms represents best what I feel about DS2 as a whole. That's why I made that comparison and that's why I said very, veeery clearly that this comparison wasn't a case of "Hey! This one thing looks better than that other thing! Clearly the one thing is better!".
It's a representation of my feeling towards the games. When I think of Dark Souls, I think of Anor Londo and a world I got 100% lost in and (in the context of this fantasy world) believable architecture and how everything seemed to have a purpose of why it looked the way it did. When I think of Dark Souls 2, I think of that throne room and the windmill and drabness - and not Majula or Heide's Tower of Flame, even though those look pretty great! My negative impressions of Dark Souls 2 overpowed the things I liked about it, while it was the other way around with DS1. I actually made a Let's Play with DS2 and you can actively see me going from "FUCK YEAH! HOLY SHIT! MAJULA! THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER!" to "Maaaan...this is kinda lame..." over the course of a few dozen hours. Not because someone told me a B-Team made the game or because EpicNameBro didn't like it or because it was cool to hate it, but because I legitimately feel like DS2 lacks much of what made Dark Souls so great to me and quite a few others.
Jazzkokehead
Member
I replayed a bit of the introductory sections to prepare myself for the third game, and I just keep dying... I've gotten soft, I guess (also doesn't help that I'm trying to play as a sorcerer, whereas I've mainly preferred melee-types before). But yeah, I had a lot of fun with the game when it first came out.
What's the general consensus on the Scholar of the First Sin version? I know they reshuffled the enemies and combat encounters, but is it an improvement?
What's the general consensus on the Scholar of the First Sin version? I know they reshuffled the enemies and combat encounters, but is it an improvement?
Personally I feel it's a massive improvement. Many of the areas that were too hanky for my tastes were toned down as to ensure that it only get umanigable if you are rushing.
They also distributed items better I felt, so that you can get most items you might earlier, and overall the new placements make much more sense.
I think it's overall an improvement. Some areas that were very tedious before (Dragon Shrine) are now better.
Some people have an axe to grind with the updated version of Iron Keep but I didn't find it that bad, I got past it on my first try.
Don't worry there were some delusional guys in the JP OT saying that DSIII ignored DSII entirely and presenting nonsensical arguments to blatantly disregard the obvious references that are there.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
DS2 threads have gotten better. I am one of the detractors of the game but I've started having good conversations about the game even with people who disagree with me. Morrigan Stark and I are actually somewhat civil toward one another now.
In every DS2 thread, there are also the people who leap upon each and every criticism of the game while making snide remarks to one another like "heh yet another idiot OP who didn't play the superior DLC. How lazy that they didn't invest 40 hours into the game before forming an opinion" and "heh yet another DS2 thread where people forget all the flaws in Dark Souls 1. Rose-tinted glasses amirite?"
early game if you're going for magic is tough at points, later game you're a wrecking ball.
SOTFS is great imo, I had a lot fun with the dlc areas and bosses. Also the game gets generous with cool items and upgrade materials in those areas.
I don't get what ds2 seems to do to people, op posts "hey I'm having fun with this let's discuss how I can have more fun". This somehow elicits the reaction "this is why I think it's shit", I don't get it.
Oracle Dragon
Member
Understandable, but when was the last time you played the first game? Anor Londo is really not all that great, featuring a lot of empty areas, huge expanses of space for no reason (bonfire rooms, path to Dukes archives, platforms off of the stairs to the cathedral, etc). Paths to nowhere, deadends with no loot or purpose, things like that. Personally I find Anor Londo to be rather overrated. I think people are hit by waves of nostalgia and remember O&S and amazing chest, and forget the rest of it.
It's mostly better, some things are a bit worse. There was a lot of talk about "better enemy placement that made more sense" but I only found that was true up to No Mans Wharf and Lost Bastille... after that enemies were changed, but it didn't always fit with the area. The best changes I thought were the Aldia arc as well as a huge increase to the number of Fragrant Branches of Yore. The biggest benefit to SotFS is the inclusion of all of the (very excellent) DLC if you did not have it before. I enjoy most areas of DS2 quite a lot and I found all three DLC areas to really be a cut above the vanilla stuff.
Don't bother with that guy, every DS conversation he takes part in he's one step away from downright openly insulting people that don't share his opinion.
You're absolutely right and I agree 100%, plenty of other people do too and it's not because they were conditioned by other's opinions. I know I went in thinking the negative criticism was probably exaggerated and wanting to like the game as much as I liked the others, and I ended up being extremely dissapointed. That's a thing some people just can't accept, they will just say that it's just conditioning by "team B" stuff or "memes".
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Who?
J/K. FWIW, I don't actually remember our interactions but I'm glad you feel that way.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Yeah man, I think you misread my post. I was replying to a guy who said "man o man, another DS2 thread where people just come by and hate like the game killed their dog". It goes both ways and I don't deny it.
I still think it's getting better though.
Even my ninja edit wasn't fast enough for you haha
Oh I agree both sides have jerks like that, and I can totally understand why some people don't like it nearly as much as the original, it's just always annoying when niether side puts forth any actual reasoning outside of "trash" or "rose tinted"
For me it's my favourite because it offers more build variety, which is by far the most important aspect for me.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Heh yeah I had to go back and fix my typo. My bad.Who?
J/K. FWIW, I don't actually remember our interactions but I'm glad you feel that way.
In the past I've brought up concerns about the level design and you and I went back and forth arguing about the finer points. I think we ended up arguing our stance with such great detail that it became obvious we both had a very well-reasoned opinion that differed only because we expected different things out of the game.
Basically, "oh, seems we just like different stuff. No big deal."
No worries man. These threads are so much better when people don't get up in arms anyway. Like, you thought DS2 was awesome? Weird, I thought it was disappointing as shit, but I'm happy to hear about what you enjoyed out of the game.
Worst-case, someone might help me overlook the stuff in DS2 that annoys me and I'll end up liking the game someday.
There's also a point where you've made the same posts like 20 times and it just feels like a waste of time haha. I'm definitely putting less efforts in those discussions now than I did a year or two ago.
brandonh83
Banned
I just started a few days ago (finally) as time to finish this up before the third game comes out, and my first few hours with the game weren't that great. I was probably feeling a little fatigued after playing through Bloodborne around fifteen times in the past year, and I find that it's more difficult than the other Souls games. I felt some of that frustration that a lot of people feel about all of them, but I pressed on as I knew that if I did, it would eventually pass as I learned the game more.
Just at the beginning I felt like it was even more confusing and cryptic in layout and design than the others, and admittedly the Forest of the Fallen Giants isn't the most exciting or unique starting environment in a Souls game, and I felt like the design came off as a little cheap, where enemy placement was more about the sheer number of enemies that you'd have to deal with rather than more intelligently-devised challenge.
Fast forward to where I am now, Harvest Valley, and I'm having just as much fun as ever. The gameplay/combat is fantastic as usual, exploring the environments is great fun, the art direction and atmosphere is on point, etc.
Just at the beginning I felt like it was even more confusing and cryptic in layout and design than the others, and admittedly the Forest of the Fallen Giants isn't the most exciting or unique starting environment in a Souls game, and I felt like the design came off as a little cheap, where enemy placement was more about the sheer number of enemies that you'd have to deal with rather than more intelligently-devised challenge.
Fast forward to where I am now, Harvest Valley, and I'm having just as much fun as ever. The gameplay/combat is fantastic as usual, exploring the environments is great fun, the art direction and atmosphere is on point, etc.
Thankfully the gameplay is better this time around, so not much rationalization will need to be done.
Extremely underrated game.
The world is not as well designed, the bosses are not as epic, the music is not on par.
But the game makes it up with the variety of builds, some really amazing places (yeah shrine of Amana is annoying as hell. But it's SO BEAUTIFUL at the same time) and overall quality of life improvements. Amount of content is huge. Metagame is more interesting, not as many cookie cutter builds, it is also way more balanced (anyone remember ninja flipping havels or 99 humanity Giantdad?)
Combat feels different, but once you get to high agility levels (100/105) it is great.
And the DLCs are stellar, I actually consider them on par with DS1.
It is not a 10/10 game. But the amount of shit it gets is just out of control.
I someone is still unsure whether SOTFS is worth it, do not hesitate. It is not perfect, but way better than most of the games that come out nowadays nontheless. First playthrough is an amazing adventure.
The world is not as well designed, the bosses are not as epic, the music is not on par.
But the game makes it up with the variety of builds, some really amazing places (yeah shrine of Amana is annoying as hell. But it's SO BEAUTIFUL at the same time) and overall quality of life improvements. Amount of content is huge. Metagame is more interesting, not as many cookie cutter builds, it is also way more balanced (anyone remember ninja flipping havels or 99 humanity Giantdad?)
Combat feels different, but once you get to high agility levels (100/105) it is great.
And the DLCs are stellar, I actually consider them on par with DS1.
It is not a 10/10 game. But the amount of shit it gets is just out of control.
I someone is still unsure whether SOTFS is worth it, do not hesitate. It is not perfect, but way better than most of the games that come out nowadays nontheless. First playthrough is an amazing adventure.
To clarify my earlier point, people are entirely allowed to have preferences, and it seems like you have legit negative feelings. The bulk of the hate I see though, is not based on well reasoned criticism. It ignores negative points of the first game and overemphasizes negative points of the second. There are flaws to be sure, but even in this thread there are people simply calling it bad with no further reasoning.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Did you play Bloodborne and mess with the Blood Gems or Hunter Tools? Just curious, since it offers a lot of build customization too but in a different way.
Exploring DS2's builds felt like navigating a tech tree, with branching options and hidden paths and tons and tons of nuance. Getting special weapons at the end of questlines or finding powerful magic felt genuinely rewarding. You couldn't wait to puzzle out its strengths and weaknesses to see if you could exploit it better in a later build. And because your early game options were pretty open, I can imagine starting over again and again would be pretty exciting.
BB's options felt more like a gigantic black-leather toolbag that was available for you to play around with, tweak, and explore how to use in all sorts of situations. It didn't really feel like you were exploring all these crazy tech-tree options, more like reaching deep into the bag for an unused tool to see how it works, while still keeping your favorite tools near the top for easy access.