To clarify my earlier point, people are entirely allowed to have preferences, and it seems like you have legit negative feelings. The bulk of the hate I see though, is not based on well reasoned criticism. It ignores negative points of the first game and overemphasizes negative points of the second. There are flaws to be sure, but even in this thread there are people simply calling it bad with no further reasoning.
For sure. People calling it bad kinda comes with the territory of some videogames (you think Mass Effect 3 threads were any more civil?) but it does not justify somebody doing a drive-by "it's shit and you should hate it too".
Did you play Bloodborne and mess with the Blood Gems or Hunter Tools? Just curious, since it offers a lot of build customization too but in a different way.
Exploring DS2's builds felt like navigating a tech tree, with branching options and hidden paths and tons and tons of nuance. Getting special weapons at the end of questlines or finding powerful magic felt genuinely rewarding. You couldn't wait to puzzle out its strengths and weaknesses to see if you could exploit it better in a later build. And because your early game options were pretty open, I can imagine starting over again and again would be pretty exciting.
BB's options felt more like a gigantic black-leather toolbag that was available for you to play around with, tweak, and explore how to use in all sorts of situations. It didn't really feel like you were exploring all these crazy tech-tree options, more like reaching deep into the bag for an unused tool to see how it works, while still keeping your favorite tools near the top for easy access.
Yeah you described bloodbornes one well, and as a result it's my least favourite of the series.
I appreciated the gem system, but the lack of move variety really killed it.
But what really wrecked it for me was that weapon distribution was super top heavy, most of them are distributed near or at late game.
This wouldn't have been such a huge factor if you could respec, but since you can't, you either have to go with inefficient stat distribution early game, or have that inefficiency affect you late game so that you had better suited stats for the starting weapon.
But that's just my opinion and in no way do I think it's a bad game lol.
What's the general consensus on the Scholar of the First Sin version? I know they reshuffled the enemies and combat encounters, but is it an improvement?
For me, it's kind of inconsistent. Some changes seem like good ideas that make sense that are executed poorly, such as the new Heide's Tower of Flame, which is now full of Heide Knights (who are no longer found where they used to be).
There is also a drake in front of the area's optional bossfight, which I guess is intended as a soft gate for the boss, as he seemed to originally be intended to fought later on. The area went from boring to bad.
The changes I like most either alleviate enemy spam or make the game a bit more interesting.
For instance, they really emphasized things pursuing you, and not just the Pursuer. They added 5 new encounters with him, although only in two areas. But the Shadows from the original's NG+ Flexile Sentry boss fight now appear out of thin air in a few areas.
There's also, of course, the new Forlorn invader who will invade you just about anywhere.
They also strangely made way more petrified enemies to use Branches of Yore on. Not sure how I feel about that. The DLC remains unchanged, however.
Personally, I have never been a fan of Dark Souls II, for the most part. Ever sicne I've started it, it's just kind of rubbed me the wrong way compared to DeS, DkS, or BB. My main beef being:
- Synthetic OST that just sounds the same, for the most part (with some exceptions)
- Uninspired and generally easy bosses (once again, with some exceptions)
- Bland-looking areas and bad level design
- Annoying adds to bosses
- Enemy placement and the strange group aggro that some enemies have
- Disappointing ending pre-SotFS
That said, there are some things in there that are definitely worth checking out:
- Lost Bastille is a cool area, as is Heide's Tower of Flame, the Shrine of Amana (if annoying) and Dragon Shrine
- While most bosses suffer, the good ones from the vanilla game stand out (i.e. Darklurker)
- While the boss itself is kinda bad, the Vendrick reveal is probably one of the best moments in the series, with the atmosphere and music being two of the biggest reasons for it.
- All three of the DLC are excellent, and worth investing the time into the game for (especially since they contain Fumey, who's my favorite Soulsborne boss now since he basically forces you to learn to lay down your shield and start dodging)
- The Aldia plotline is probably one of the best in the entire series, and really adds to the game, not to mention unlocking a second, much better ending. (DkSIII SPOILER)
It's actually saddening that the Usurpation ending has to do with that Dark Lord stuff instead of completing what the Drangleic brothers had started. It's even more egregious that Aldia has no bearing on the game's plot at all, despite having transcended the cycle of Fire and Dark.
Like I said I'm up to Harvest Valley and I wanted to ask, I'm doing a Dex/fth build and was wondering what armor sets I should be after at this point. I've been wearing Heide armor for like 10-15 hours now lol, and I prefer medium armor with good agility.
Like I said I'm up to Harvest Valley and I wanted to ask, I'm doing a Dex/fth build and was wondering what armor sets I should be after at this point. I've been wearing Heide armor for like 10-15 hours now lol, and I prefer medium armor with good agility.
Like I said I'm up to Harvest Valley and I wanted to ask, I'm doing a Dex/fth build and was wondering what armor sets I should be after at this point. I've been wearing Heide armor for like 10-15 hours now lol, and I prefer medium armor with good agility.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone, it sounds like the most significant feature of Scholar is the inclusion of all the DLC (which I already own) and most of the rest of it's more or less the same... so whenever I finally get around to replaying the game in full, I'll probably stick with the vanilla version, as that doesn't require me to spend any more money.
The world and bosses were so meh to me sbd made no sense but I loved the multiplayer aspects so much. Trolling people in the rat covenent or killing people in the bell tower was just great fun.
A huge downstep in story, world and bosses. Huge improvement in multiplayer. I need to try scholars
Depending on how much you spent on the armor salesman he will also start selling Alva's set which is my second favourite, and you should be able to get it pretty quickly
Depending on how much you spent on the armor salesman he will also start selling Alva's set which is my second favourite, and you should be able to get it pretty quickly
There's a real elegance to Metroidvania style level design. The little revelatory moments, the sense of cohesion, feeling of progression- it's all there. At the end of the day, though, the minute to minute level design- the actual what of playing, not the how of it- matters more. For this reason, I've never really gotten the hate DS2 gets.
It's not as polished, nor as "organic" as the levels of DS1, sure, but none of the levels are just outright bad, while DS1 has multiple areas that are worse than ANY other area of any of the Souls games. Undead Burg and Sen's Fortress are great sure, but Izalith is pure crap, the "gimmicks" of the Crystal Caves and Tomb of the Giants don't make for great gameplay, and even Anor Londo in all its beauty is pretty damn boring, the more tightly knit area following the archers aside. (Of course, O&S very quickly redeem that)
You also can't straight break most enemies with parries and backstabs- or at least as easily- in DS2, which I still feel is a pretty critical flaw in DS1 that isn't discussed enough. The fact that the final boss of DS1 can be dismissed more easily than the first in a game that's all about mastery and challenge is a huge deal.
Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into a comparison war. It's just- when I think of the things I appreciate about DS2 and Bloodborne, I can't help but think a lot of it is their contrast to the flawed parts of DS1.
Also, you actually reminded me of another great element in DkSII, which is the Pate-Creighton storyline. Both DeS and DkS had Patches and Yurt/Lautrec reveal that they despised one another, so it was nice to see their storylines develop that way in DkSII.
I like how the OP asks for tips and almost immediately people rather complain about the game instead, like he's wrong for liking it.
OP, I see you fell for the classic "hoard my elixirs because I'll need it" mentality when playing this game. Pretty funny that managed to do it with +0 weapons. As for the Iron Keep, I always use a bow to lure them out one by one. NG+ in DS2 is a bit more fleshed than the others so it's worth playing through if you want the extra challenge. Though, they did nerf probably the most difficult bosses, some rightfully so.
If you want, you can try the the PvP covenant and check out the arenas. It's pretty neat knocking people off the bridge. C:
I like how the OP asks for tips and almost immediately people rather complain about the game instead, like he's wrong for liking it.
OP, I see you fell for the classic "hoard my elixirs because I'll need it" mentality when playing this game. Pretty funny that managed to do it with +0 weapons. As for the Iron Keep, I always use a bow to lure them out one by one. NG+ in DS2 is a bit more fleshed than the others so it's worth playing through if you want the extra challenge. Though, they did nerf probably the most difficult bosses, some rightfully so.
If you want, you can try the the PvP covenant and check out the arenas. It's pretty neat knocking people off the bridge. C:
I agree Ng+ is definitely worth a run because it shakes things up significantly in some areas, and other areas are also changed to provide a greater challenge
Oh man, all I know is it's a chore to play through and it just makes me wonder why I'm not playing Dark Souls or now Dark Souls 3 instead. Or literally any other game that doesn't make me think of how much better Dark Souls is for that matter.
A horrible sequel and a bad game besides. This is like saying that Yoshi's New Island is a really good game if you ignore all of the reasons why it's not.
Oh man, all I know is it's a chore to play through and it just makes me wonder why I'm not playing Dark Souls or now Dark Souls 3 instead. Or literally any other game that doesn't make me think of how much better Dark Souls is for that matter.
A horrible sequel and a bad game besides. This is like saying that Yoshi's New Island is a really good game if you ignore all of the reasons why it's not.
Oh man, all I know is it's a chore to play through and it just makes me wonder why I'm not playing Dark Souls or now Dark Souls 3 instead. Or literally any other game that doesn't make me think of how much better Dark Souls is for that matter.
A horrible sequel and a bad game besides. This is like saying that Yoshi's New Island is a really good game if you ignore all of the reasons why it's not.
Actually that's not at all what he said, it's looking at the game compared to everything else, not just its predecessor, under this logic any sequel that's not as good as the original is terrible because it didn't do some things as well as the original regardless of how good the game is on its own.
I finally sacked up and played through DS2 a month or two ago after a corrupted hard drive wiped all my 360 saves. I really liked it. I did like Dark Souls more, but Dark Souls 2, I thought, was a great game and I loved all the ambient story stuff. As soon as I was done I started the Scholar of the First Sin and beat that one too, but I haven't gotten through the DLC areas yet (Im gonna need to do that for those spell achievements anyways...).
Maybe it's because I'm a new Souls fan, but I didn't expect the aggressive hate from the beginning of the thread. All of this is somewhat enlightening.
Can't wait for DS3 as well. So glad I was able to finish DS2 before release. Pre-ordered and ready.
OP it seems like you haven't done the DLC areas, if you need the keys for them I kind of know where they are.
1. In Drangleic Castle, near first bonfire, I remember it being on a corpse I think.
2. The Salamander Pit in the Forest of the Giants. You have to use an antiqued key to open the door right next to where you fought the Last Giant.
3. This one you need a key first from the Black Gultch. You have to fall down to a ledge and fight 2 giants. It's somewhere there, then you go down the Majula pit to where the door is. I think one of the ladders takes you right to it. It's in that room there.
OP it seems like you haven't done the DLC areas, if you need the keys for them I kind of know where they are.
1. In Drangleic Castle, near first bonfire, I remember it being on a corpse I think.
2. The Salamander Pit in the Forest of the Giants. You have to use an antiqued key to open the door right next to where you fought the Last Giant.
3. This one you need a key first from the Black Gultch. You have to fall down to a ledge and fight 2 giants. It's somewhere there, then you go down the Majula pit to where the door is. I think one of the ladders takes you right to it. It's in that room there.
What's the general consensus on the Scholar of the First Sin version? I know they reshuffled the enemies and combat encounters, but is it an improvement?
I think the first half of the game is about 50% an upgrade and 50% a bit worse or change for change's sake (which works out to the majority being positive or neutral, though it's unfortunately some of my favourite levels that I think are a bit worse in SOTFS). The second half of the game however is pretty much universally an improvement or sidegrade at worst, to the point that it easily balances out some of my misgivings about the first half; hordes blocking bosses are toned down or turned into one-off minibosses, obnoxiously overpowered enemies are toned down to reasonable levels
The respawning ghosts in Undead Crypt and the Dragon Shrine enemies and boss in particular
and one or two levels are almost completely redesigned to be both more fun and tell a better narrative through gameplay.
For something more spoilerish about the first half
I have come to appreciate the changes a bit more after thinking about them; SOTFS is designed to have a much clearer difficulty curve than vanilla did, where everything was on a relatively even level with one or two spikes. I think a lot of people's issues with the new Iron Keep come from this; in vanilla you could rush there right away and do just fine (hell it was encouraged with the ember there), whereas in SOTFS it's pumped up such that it's very obviously designed to be the finale of the first half of the game and one of the last things you do. Heide's is similar; in vanilla you could go there right away, and, while it was harder than the Forest you could do just fine, whereas in SOTFS it's much more brutal and designed to encourage you to go the Forest way first and power up a bit. That goes both ways and they also blocked off stuff like the Ruin Sentinels with statues to stop you fighting them super-early and getting roadblocked (in vanilla I pretty much considered the Sentinels DS2's Skeleton graveyard equivalent with how many people seemed to get stuck there when there are multiple other paths). I'm not sure if I consider that an improvement, but with the full picture I can at least understand what some of the seemingly nonsensical changes are trying to do.
I'll always find the shitposting about Dark Souls 2 hilarious.
It might not have the cohesive vision Dark Souls had but:
-Has a huge variety in terms of builds
-There's lots, and I mean lots, of quality of life improvements, that make the controls and gameplay much tighter.
-Has by far the best PVP in the whole franchise so far, coupled with great covenants to take advantage of that.
-SOTFS fixed almost every single issue there was with the enemy placements in the vanilla DS2
- Great replayability features like the Hard mode covenant and the Bonfire Ascetics
- The DLCs are very, very good
-Game might not get as high as Dark Souls 1, but it sure doesn't sink as low as DS1 sinks either
-Level design is better than people give it credit for, and it actively rewards being careful and exploring more than DS1 did.
One thing is thinking the game is worse than DS1, but saying that it's outright terrible or that it should be completely skipped and forgotten is fucking insane.
I think the first half of the game is about 50% an upgrade and 50% a bit worse or change for change's sake (which works out to the majority being positive or neutral, though it's unfortunately some of my favourite levels that I think are a bit worse in SOTFS). The second half of the game however is pretty much universally an improvement or sidegrade at worst, to the point that it easily balances out some of my misgivings about the first half; hordes blocking bosses are toned down or turned into one-off minibosses, obnoxiously overpowered enemies are toned down to reasonable levels
The respawning ghosts in Undead Crypt and the Dragon Shrine enemies and boss in particular
and one or two levels are almost completely redesigned to be both more fun and tell a better narrative through gameplay.
For something more spoilerish about the first half
I have come to appreciate the changes a bit more after thinking about them; SOTFS is designed to have a much clearer difficulty curve than vanilla did, where everything was on a relatively even level with one or two spikes. I think a lot of people's issues with the new Iron Keep come from this; in vanilla you could rush there right away and do just fine (hell it was encouraged with the ember there), whereas in SOTFS it's pumped up such that it's very obviously designed to be the finale of the first half of the game and one of the last things you do. Heide's is similar; in vanilla you could go there right away, and, while it was harder than the Forest you could do just fine, whereas in SOTFS it's much more brutal and designed to encourage you to go the Forest way first and power up a bit. That goes both ways and they also blocked off stuff like the Ruin Sentinels with statues to stop you fighting them super-early and getting roadblocked (in vanilla I pretty much considered the Sentinels DS2's Skeleton graveyard equivalent with how many people seemed to get stuck there when there are multiple other paths). I'm not sure if I consider that an improvement, but with the full picture I can at least understand what some of the seemingly nonsensical changes are trying to do.
Heide's just as manageable in SOTFS. I mean, maybe not if you want to right to Old Dragonslayer, but the "progression" path? You can do just fine there, it's not really "brutal" imo
you know, although i very much enjoy the game, i can see where people are coming from with many of their criticisms.
but those who slag on the OST—dude, i find it very hard to abide. I actually prefer it to DaS1's, which frequently suffers from the typical pitfalls plaguing most non-experimental attempts at synthetic orchestration; it's often a thin-sounding simulation to my ears. that said, firelink shrine is the biggest exception, and probably my favorite single piece of music to come out of the series.
DaS2 at times sounds a little Hollywood, maybe, but DaS1's score often sounds like it's trying to go there—and failing. firekeepers and majula are obvious highlights, but flexile sentry, longing, ruin sentinels, sinh, and departure are all pretty remarkable, and skimming through the OST now i'm having a hard time pinpointing a single lousy moment.
overall, i think DaS1 elevates its OST, whereas DaS2's OST elevates its game.
Not a fan of the game en all honesty, its also kind of why I am skeptical of Dark Souls III, because GAF told me DS2 was better than the first if not as good during the first month or so of release. Even the supposed "positives" like build quantity and replayability are null because .... why would you want to replay a mediocre game even if it has a bazillion ways to play it? I would have likes the PvP in theory if Soul memory wasn't a thing, and the damn hitboxes worked.
. Took them out and did some exploring....went down a ladder to a small room, and the fucking
Persuer
showed up!!! I had just beaten him at the Bastille a half hour or so earlier. This guy is starting to be a pain in the ass, lol. I killed him again and I'm ready to move on.
. Took them out and did some exploring....went down a ladder to a small room, and the fucking
Persuer
showed up!!! I had just beaten him at the Bastille a half hour or so earlier. This guy is starting to be a pain in the ass, lol. I killed him again and I'm ready to move on.
Not a fan of the game en all honesty, its also kind of why I am skeptical of Dark Souls III, because GAF told me DS2 was better than the first if not as good during the first month or so of release. Even the supposed "positives" like build quantity and replayability are null because .... why would you want to replay a mediocre game even if it has a bazillion ways to play it? I would have likes the PvP in theory if Soul memory wasn't a thing, and the damn hitboxes worked.
But it isn't mediocre. It's good. The soul memory stuff was a terrible idea, yes, but it wouldn't affect you in the slightest until you get a very, very big ammount of hours put into the game. As for the hitboxes, is one of the most amusing complaints i've seen because it doesn't really apply either. The hitboxes are fine, as much as people with cherry picked gifs like to say otherwise. I had more issues with hitboxes on Bloodborne than DS2, and Bloodborne is still a freaking awesome game. A more legit complaint would be the ridiculous tracking some of the enemies have where they can change their attacks to your direction quickly even if they are supposed to be very slow moving enemies. That's indeed a issue, the hitboxes are not.
But it isn't mediocre. It's good. The soul memory stuff was a terrible idea, yes, but it wouldn't affect you in the slightest until you get a very, very big ammount of hours put into the game. As for the hitboxes, is one of the most amusing complaints i've seen because it doesn't really apply either. The hitboxes are fine, as much as people with cherry picked gifs like to say otherwise. I had more issues with hitboxes on Bloodborne than DS2, and Bloodborne is still a freaking awesome game. A more legit complaint would be the ridiculous tracking some of the enemies have where they can change their attacks to your direction quickly even if they are supposed to be very slow moving enemies. That's indeed a issue, the hitboxes are not.
I agree that bloodbornes hit Boxster gave me infinitely more issues.
The tracking is a problem but I felt that it was really bad on a few specific enemies. A lot of the just track during the wind up, but I agree the ones that track mid swing needs to change.
you know, although i very much enjoy the game, i can see where people are coming from with many of their criticisms.
but those who slag on the OSTdude, i find it very hard to abide. I actually prefer it to DaS1's, which frequently suffers from the typical pitfalls plaguing most non-experimental attempts at synthetic orchestration; it's often a thin-sounding simulation to my ears. that said, firelink shrine is the biggest exception, and probably my favorite single piece of music to come out of the series.
DaS2 at times sounds a little Hollywood, maybe, but DaS1's score often sounds like it's trying to go thereand failing. firekeepers and majula are obvious highlights, but flexile sentry, longing, ruin sentinels, sinh, and departure are all pretty remarkable, and skimming through the OST now i'm having a hard time pinpointing a single lousy moment.
overall, i think DaS1 elevates its OST, whereas DaS2's OST elevates its game.
It might've been better if the game didn't use a synthetic choir and orchestra throughout almost the entire OST. It just makes it sound cheap compared to DeS and DkS, and especially to BB, which overwhelmingly has the best OST out of all the games. The synthetic orchestra is also something I'm not liking about DkSIII's OST with the exception of a few tracks, just because BB used a real orchestra and choir throughout, including in the DLC (the other thing being that a lot of the pieces sound like variations on Ebrietas and Maria's themes).
But it isn't mediocre. It's good. The soul memory stuff was a terrible idea, yes, but it wouldn't affect you in the slightest until you get a very, very big ammount of hours put into the game. As for the hitboxes, is one of the most amusing complaints i've seen because it doesn't really apply either. The hitboxes are fine, as much as people with cherry picked gifs like to say otherwise. I had more issues with hitboxes on Bloodborne than DS2, and Bloodborne is still a freaking awesome game. A more legit complaint would be the ridiculous tracking some of the enemies have where they can change their attacks to your direction quickly even if they are supposed to be very slow moving enemies. That's indeed a issue, the hitboxes are not.
I feel like when people complain about DS2's hitboxes they're really complaining about the bizarre lag compensation (or possible total lack thereof,) that's used for PvP.
I've had people with terrible connections halfway across a huge room swinging at air, and yet I get staggered and damaged by every "hit."
I've blasted people in the face with multiple spell arrows only for it to do no damage...and then suddenly have all the hits register at once several seconds later.
Claymore is definitely a nice weapon to have, don't worry too much if you find a weapon you prefer later, any weapon that uses regular materials can safely be upgraded up 8+ because the normal vendors will eventually sell infinite supplies of all the standard materials aside from the +10 one
glad you're enjoying it op, the flexibility you have with builds and play styles is one of the things I love most about ds2. Dark magic is a fun way to romp through ng + btw. I infused a boss weapon with dark which was a halberd with a skull on the end, can't remember the name but I loved that character so much. And a load of hexes are v strong esp if you get some fast casting rings or gear, good times.
This reminds me why I have played through this game with around seven characters since vanilla DS2 released. I sometimes find myself daydreaming about new exciting builds and it keeps me coming back for more. Now I want to try my hand at Dark/Hexes and give the Red Iron Twinblade a try since I saw it mentioned earlier in the thread and realized I had never even held a twinblade once in my hundreds of hours of play.
So much variety. I can imagine myself years from now as an old man attempting a ladle-only run through the game just for the heck of it.
Sunken King is honestly the weakest of the three, IMO. It has great level design, but relies too much on the same things that really irked me out about the vanilla game. That said, the fight against
Claymore is definitely a nice weapon to have, don't worry too much if you find a weapon you prefer later, any weapon that uses regular materials can safely be upgraded up 8+ because the normal vendors will eventually sell infinite supplies of all the standard materials aside from the +10 one
