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LTTP: Donkey Kong Country 1-3 and Donkey Kong Country Returns

ghibli99

Member
[7/23/12 Update: Finished DKCR yesterday! Review updated below.]

Hi everyone,

Earlier this year, I spent a rather large chunk of time playing through Mega Man 1-6 (and 7, too) for the first time ever. What a series! It went from one that intimidated me most of my life to one that I now consider an all-time classic. You can read that thread if you want to know what I thought of each one.

Anyway, back in the mid-'90s when DKC1 was new, I bought and played the heck out of it, but not in the way that most normal people would. For some reason, I decided I'd try to find all of the hidden bananas that were in the ground. I don't know why I got so addicted to it, but there I was in college, spending hours upon hours slapping the ground in every level looking for those things.

Unsurprisingly, this approach to "playing" the game burnt me out by the 2nd or 3rd world. I shelved it, and later sold it.

Fast-forward to last year. I re-bought the series and decided that since I was working on my backlog, why not tackle this one? Well, I just completed all the SNES games the other day and finished the first world of DKCR on the Wii, so here are my thoughts:

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dkc1.jpg


Donkey Kong Country 1 (101% Completion) -- I have a real soft spot for this one. It's the one I remember most, and the only one I bought back when it was new. I think that's true for a number of people who, like me, instead spent their money on games like Chrono Trigger and Yoshi's Island the following year vs. this game's sequels.

The gameplay itself is solid. One of the most infamous levels is that first mine cart stage with that evil Kremling waiting for you by the exit. Yes, I ran into him after so many tries getting through this and its bonus areas. Grr! By the same token, though, you can tell that Rare had a fun time designing levels like this. :)

The music in this game is what I remember the most, though. While the gameplay and controls are decent enough, the soundtrack is unforgettable.

Getting 101% in this was tough, but not because of the challenge... some bonus areas just seemed so randomly placed, especially that evil one near the end. I couldn't figure that one out without a guide.

Overall, this is a sentimental favorite, but it's outdone by its sequel. Score: A-

Favorite music:
Aquatic Ambiance - The definition of sublime.
DK Island Swing - Classic.
Fear Factory - I swear I heard these same notes in the emerging trance boom a few years later!

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dkc2.jpg


Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (102% Completion) -- I really liked the Diddy and Dixie combo in this game. They both controlled wonderfully and had their distinctive uses.

Overall level design in this game was simply superb, and the Lost World levels - although borderline insanity-inducing in some cases (wind + Squawks = kill me now!) - were a very welcome and rewarding challenge.

Music was also quite consistently good, and the obvious favorite pick is in my list below. David Wise, man... you're my hero. Music of this quality coming from an old 16-bit machine? We're just way too spoiled.

Difficulty in general in this game felt pretty amped up compared to the original, and by the time it was over, I felt like I could do anything. That's what originally prompted me to give the Mega Man series a try. My favorite of the series! Score: A

Favorite music:
Stickerbush Symphony - Perhaps the best song in the entire series.
Hot Head Bop - I love that bubbling lava and the piano.
Rattle Battle - So catchy, but I really sucked at controlling Rattly! Bad flashbacks to Spring Mario in SMG.

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dkc3.jpg


Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble! (103% Completion) -- I initially didn't think much of this one, but the more I played it, the more I appreciated the variety that Rare put in there. Lots of cool little ideas in the level design... not so much their structure, but things like having to think in terms of depth to avoid/dispatch certain enemies, reverse controls, fading light, the more open world structure, etc.

I also felt like the bonus stages were better "themed" than they were in previous games, but maybe that's just because I played this the most recently. Getting the DK coins was interesting at first, but it's like they ran out of ideas on how to free them. The team-based moves were cool for Dixie and Kiddy, but again, I felt their use was quite limited outside of reaching higher areas/ledges.

Kiddy himself? What a forgettable character. :(

I know there are folks on here that really like the more ambient and less melodic soundtrack of this game, but not me. I really had to think hard and search around on YouTube to find any that were as memorable as the previous games. The overall 'feel' of the music is similar, but I prefer Nintendo platforming music that you can't get out of your head and want to listen to when you're not playing the game. These reminded me of the ambient tracks from Final Fantasy X... they work in the context of the game, but not as much when listening to them outside of it.

DKC3 felt like the easiest of the 3 SNES games, but it was the one that took me the longest to get through. I was expecting to get demolished by the Lost World stages, but I flew threw them quickly (first one gave me the most trouble!). I didn't care for the fetch quests and pixel-hunt parts of the game, but good for Rare for trying something a little different. Working on 3 of these in a row had to have taken its toll on the team.

Anyway, I liked this game, despite the things I preferred in the previous two. It just wasn't *quite* as good. Score: B

Favorite music:
Arctic Abyss - I half expect Sinead O'Connor to start singing over this. :)
Dixie Beat - I like the in-your-face approach, and the underlying DKC1 beat.
Water World - Kinda creepy, but nice samples!

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dkcr.jpg


Donkey Kong Country Returns (100% Completion) -- When I originally created this thread, I had only gotten a few stages into DKCR. I was quite literally stunned by the quality of this game, and that feeling remained all the way to the very end. Like the SMG games, DKCR just keeps on throwing newer, bigger, harder, and more visually amazing things at you. You can't help but smile - even through the tough-as-nails stages - because the game is so wonderfully polished.

While the graphics and animation are truly great, the actual level design is just magical and inspired. They make the majority of the SNES game levels feel pretty tame, and together, shows that advances in technology can have a major impact on modern game design and presentation.

I first started with the horizontal Wiimote, but folks in this thread steered me right by switching me to analog/Nunchuk control. Yeah, I'm glad I listened. Control for the most part felt flawless. Made a lot of dumb mistakes, but those can be attributed to user error, or accidentally shaking and rolling DK to his death. But other than that, these controls are fantastic, and I wouldn't mind their return and further refinement in a sequel.

Complaints? Just a few: I didn't care for the way bonus rooms were done in this game. I loved the themed and varied ones from DKC2&3, and wish they'd done more of that here. I also didn't like the somewhat wonky/loose rocket barrel controls. Those were the only stages in the game where I felt like the controls were the reason why I was dying so much. I eventually got used to them, but I would let out a giant sigh every time I came up to a rocket barrel in a stage. :)

It could also be argued that the game was a bit too similar in tone to the first SNES game, which is true especially for the music, but that didn't really bother me. The game was just so much fun that the similarities just gave me more to attach myself to and revel in nostalgia.

Overall, this is one of the best games I've played this generation, and I hold it in as high regard as I do SMG2 and DKC2. Bring on a sequel, Retro! Score: A

Favorite music:
Palm Tree Groove - Love this jazzy take on the classic DK Island Swing theme.
Mine Menace - So good! While I wasn't a big fan of rocket barrel stages, this one was super-memorable, and what a great tune.
Rickety Rails - Intense all the way through... I loved the mine cart stages, and great music like this didn't hurt!
Golden Temple - Somewhat spoilerish if you haven't heard it yet, but definitely a throwback in every sense of the word!

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Thanks for reading through this. I really enjoy the series, and might have to revisit the side-scrolling Mario games next. It's been a long time. :)
 

jwhit28

Member
Have fun man. DKCR becomes pretty brutal towards the end. Its a shame DKC3 was so overlooked but what can you expect when you release a SNES game after Super Mario 64 came out?
 

drspeedy

Member
Excellent! Oddly enough I finally got around to finishing DKCR just last night... had it since just after launch but never made it to the end. I find it to be an absolutely fantastic game, maybe the best in the series (never played 3). The level design, gameplay and art style somehow manage get better and better with each world. Music may not be as memorable, but the reworkings of classic DKC themes works really really well.

As to waggle, I played sideways wiimote as well and you will hate it in places. While it's not usually an issue, but there are plenty of times where a puzzle piece or KONG letter are just infuriatingly hard to get all because the shake-to-roll didn't register properly. Once I got started with sideways I found trying to switch to the nunchuck setup to be counter-intuitive, so I ended sticking with horizontal. It might be worth experimenting with controls before you get too far into the game, I know most of GAF seems to prefer them.

Games like the whole DKC series remind me just how much I love gaming, and how man games flat out fail to be fun any more. Long live the Kong!


[edit] my two favorite levels

Smokey Peak (8-4)
640px-SmokeyPeak.png


Tidal Terror (2-7)
640px-DKCRI165.png
 
Considering my insane love for platformers (and the DKC series) I'm ashamed that I still haven't picked up DKC:R. I guess I just find it hard to spend £30+ on something that is nearly 2 years old in a time where games often drop under £20 in 2 months. I need to stop being such a cheap arse.....
 

Ala Alba

Member
Waggle doesn't bug me yet (playing with the Wiimote horizontally).

I know lots of people complain about the waggle, but it didn't really bug me in Super Mario Galaxy, and it doesn't bug me here. I think it works very well, actually. It's a given that I'd like to play it without the waggle, but not if that would mean a separate button for rolling.
 

jwhit28

Member
I know lots of people complain about the waggle, but it didn't really bug me in Super Mario Galaxy, and it doesn't bug me here. I think it works very well, actually. It's a given that I'd like to play it without the waggle, but not if that would mean a separate button for rolling.

The actual waggle isn't annoying but blowing is a stupid mechanic. It slows the game down and rarely rewards you with anything great but you have to check every little thing because of the puzzle pieces.
 
I played through DKCR in co-op and have thought about playing through it again in single because I was kinda bored during the co-op and didn't feel I could actually give it an accurate review score because of my co-op experiences.

I've thought about playing through DKC1 to compare with DKCR, but then I think of my back log of like 9 games, and I have to rule that out for now.

I don't get why they didn't have DKC 1-3 style Co-op in returns; really made my brother and I upset.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Considering my insane love for platformers (and the DKC series) I'm ashamed that I still haven't picked up DKC:R. I guess I just find it hard to spend £30+ on something that is nearly 2 years old in a time where games often drop under £20 in 2 months. I need to stop being such a cheap arse.....

You do, its one of the best games of this generation.
 

Levyne

Banned
I liked DKCR but once I beat it I never had any desire to do all the collecting or mirror mode or stuff.

I did, somehow, get all the orb thingers and beat the level that unlocks, though
 
Fear Factory has been burned into my brain since first hearing it in 1994. It's some of the best game music I've ever heard bar none. DKCR's remix can't even come close to the originals in my opinion.
 
Great games all. I'll always remember the SNES games for their very atypical tone... despite those cloying Rare character designs, many of the levels were really earthy and moody, and of course those soundtracks... some tracks were downright melancholy. These games just felt different. Strange, distinctive atmospheres you didn't see in Mario or Sonic games.

DKCR has a more generically bright and colorful tone that you'd expect from this genre. But the gameplay is even better, what a brilliant game, even with that idiotic decision to map roll to shake/spaz/whatever.
 
I know lots of people complain about the waggle, but it didn't really bug me in Super Mario Galaxy, and it doesn't bug me here. I think it works very well, actually. It's a given that I'd like to play it without the waggle, but not if that would mean a separate button for rolling.
That's because it's very well implemented and makes sense in SMG, in DKCR it's really pointless. OP do yourself a favour and use codes to let you use the Classic Controller if you have it.
 

SpokkX

Member
DKCR is one of the best platformers of all time an easily tops the snes triology in everyting except perhaps music

The level design is just godlike
 

Vamphuntr

Member
I would say that DKC 2 is definitely my favorite. I liked 3 too but I felt they added too many gimmick levels (races, vechicles, level where the screen auto scroll). The soundtrack in both game are simply amazing.

Could never really get in DKCR. I stopped playing after few levels because it didn't click with me.
 

Levyne

Banned
DKCR is one of the best platformers of all time an easily tops the snes triology in everyting except perhaps music

The level design is just godlike

I found it to be a little bit too heavy in rote memory trial and error but I still liked it
 
Oh this warms my heart this does, almost makes me want to run through DKC soon. Well I guess now is as good a time as ever to drop some more thoughts on these games.

DKC: Easily the fastest flowing entry in the SNES trilogy, a game that just plays so much better when you keep on going, quite a few stages are setup around the frantic running such as Stop and Go Station and Temple Tempest. While a lot of praise is given to the water stages I feel this is misplaced, while there's nothing wrong with them there's nothing much to say about them aside from the music, but Croctopus chase was one of the better water stages. I like who piss easy the bosses are personally, no faffing around is nice in platformers, the minecart stages are actually at their worst here though that could just be because I recently heard rumblings that the PAL version is tougher for some non 60hz related reasons.
The standout stage for me is Orangutan Gang, not only is that an awesome stage name but it's a cool stage that plays homage to the original DK, allows you to ride the steel keg and a rare use of Espresseo the Ostrich. Some will complain about the hit detection, claim it was never good in the first place and that magical graphic wizards had us under their spell but I say bull shit to that, my least favourite of the DKC games but still an enjoyable game and no amount of oddly placed floating oil drums will change that.
Bonus rooms are awfully hidden though and pretty pointless.

DKC2: Soundtrack of the gods, sublime stage settings, beautiful balance of stage gimmicks and well done platforming, I have endless praise for DKC2. It utterly stomps the first game improving upon it in damn near every way possible, Rollercoasters are so much better than the minecarts, water stages now have gimmicky twists in a good way, bonus rooms have a point and are well hidden (if not the best example of hidden areas in any game), difficulty is tougher but just right, better selection of animal buddies that tie into their own stages and I don't know what else you want to hear, it's pure 16 bit goodness and my favourite 2D platformer just beating out Super Mario World and DKCR.

DKC3: The black sheep of these games to be sure, often remembered for overuse of stage gimmickry, unnecessary overworld item collecting, weaker soundtrack, Kiddy Kong and a tonal step back from the grim and unique settings of DKC2.
But lets hold up a second because when this game had its gimmicks down correctly it was on fire, Bobbing Barrel Brawl is animal buddy use perfection, the vertical stages in the cliffs, redwood forests and waterfalls are some of the best vertical stages in the genre. The graphics are at their most colourful (awful pipe stage settings aside) and really get a lot out of the SNES. The GBA version throws on an extra world with a watery gimmick, flooded forest stages, an underwater throwback to the dreaded Squawks animal antics section of DKC2, I liked them quite a lot and it was easily the best port with this extra world and having a new soundtrack instead of a butchered mess. Really there's not many games like it and I tend to like it more than the original for that reason.

DKCR: I wont say too much since ghibli is still playing it (by the way you should really use the nunchuck) but this is the comeback of kings. The stage design is constantly fresh managing to add some more visual spectacle and shifting environments to the gameplay without sacrificing the platforming, hell it only serves to make it better. If the soundtrack wasn't such a letdown, the game not too tied to the original DKC identity, if it had proper bonus rooms, classic controller support and moved Diddy's jetpack to another button as to not interfere with the bounce mechanic then i'd probably put this on top. These issues are rather minor and could be so easily fixed by a sequel, I crave another, I demand it!
Oh and screw blowing, why is it here Miyamoto?
World 7 is the absolute nuts by the way.
 

ghibli99

Member
Thanks for all of the responses so far! It's cool to read what people think of the series and which ones are their favorites. :)

I'm going to keep playing DKCR as designed w/ waggle and see how it goes. Oddly enough, I didn't use the roll move a lot in the SNES games unless it was required for an item or to access a bonus area. I've read about how tough DKCR gets later, so I'll keep it in mind as I play through. For now, though, it seems to be pretty accurate, and I'm just having a blast. It's one of those games I really want to savor since it feels so wonderfully crafted.

Enough folks are saying to, so I'll give the nunchuk method a try. :) Thanks!
 
You do, its one of the best games of this generation.

Yup, paid full price and no regrets.

Man I love the DKC series. Played the snes ones as a kid all the time. The soundtracks to those games are burned into my skull. Loved the co-op in DKCR. Actually got my girlfriend to play it with me. Loads of fun. Your in for a treat op. The levels get a lot cooler the farther along ya get.
 
(by the way you should really use the nunchuck)

I know a lot of people play with the Wiimote sideways for DKCR but I have no idea how. I need the nunchuck for that game despite playing almost every other 2D platformer with a D-pad.
 
As a side note the multiplayer for DKCR gets crapped on quite a lot and it's not as good as that found in Rayman Origins and NSMB but get someone of a good skill level with you and it's a jolly good time, especially switcheroo where you and your partner need to be in sync to ensure you don't perish horribly.
 

ghibli99

Member
The only person I have to co-op regularly with is my wife, which is what made SMG2's co-op so fun for the both of us. By contrast, we wanted to hurt each other pretty bad in NSMB Wii, so I'm assuming the same would hold true here. ;)

I know a lot of people play with the Wiimote sideways for DKCR but I have no idea how. I need the nunchuck for that game despite playing almost every other 2D platformer with a D-pad.
Just out of curiosity, what's the main difference? Easier to shake like in SMG vs. shaking the Wiimote w/ 2 hands Wario Land Shake It-style? Guess I'll find out for myself tonight.
 

jb1234

Member
DKC1 and 2 are terrific games (3 somewhat less so but it's still fun). I was very much disappointed by DKCR. No bonus barrels (hunting those down was my favorite part of the earlier games!), boring music, just not much fun. I traded it in after making it about halfway through.
 

thomaser

Member
In my opinion, DKCR is the best game. DKC and DKC 2 are fun, timeless classics. Excellent gameplay and challenge. The music has a LOT to do with their greatness, though. I was obsessed with those games, and played them sooo much just to listen to the music (and look at the pretty graphics, which were astonishing at the time). DKC 3 is all right, but it just feels unimportant, in a way, and is completely overshadowed by the others. DKCR is by far the best designed game. Gameplay, levels, variation, bosses, visual style, secrets, challenge... I think it's the best in every category except music. But it has some great music, too, even if it's not up to Yamamoto's Metroid standards.
 
The only person I have to co-op regularly with is my wife, which is what made SMG2's co-op so fun for the both of us. By contrast, we wanted to hurt each other pretty bad in NSMB Wii, so I'm assuming the same would hold true here. ;)
Well you don't bump into each other here but you'd probably still want to kill each other, maybe.

Just out of curiosity, what's the main difference? Easier to shake like in SMG vs. shaking the Wiimote w/ 2 hands Wario Land Shake It-style? Guess I'll find out for myself tonight.
Easier shaking, more comfortable and the stick just feels right in this game which is contrary to most 2D platformers I know. Also pounding the ground is more err....immersive I guess with two things to shake.
 
Donkey Kong Country Returns is absurdly good, another absolute classic 2D co-op platformer on a console seemingly built for them. I cannot recommend it enough.

I used to love Donkey Kong Country 2, but I think I've burned myself out on that. Replaying it now it doesn't seem nearly as impressive, and the boss battles are simply a chore. It's still great stuff.

DKC 3 is... it's alright. It's patchy. The Koin thing is stupid and barely utilised, and some of the levels are outright annoying (Kong-fused Cliffs springs to mine). It's still fun, but I prefer the GBA version for the soundtrack. The extra world, Pacifica, is mainly crap though.

The original DKC is pretty great as a speed-run platformer - the GBA version has a wonderful DK Attack mode that assigns you grades based on score, which makes the whole game flow. Really good fun.
 

JoeInky

Member
2 and Returns are my favourite games of the series.

I only completed returns up to about 190% though, the mirror mode versions of some of the levels are just insane, I think they're legitimately some of the hardest levels in a platformer I've ever played.
 
Just out of curiosity, what's the main difference? Easier to shake like in SMG vs. shaking the Wiimote w/ 2 hands Wario Land Shake It-style? Guess I'll find out for myself tonight.

Definitely easier shaking (just a sharp downward flick to execute the rolls etc.) plus you don't have to hold down a button to run, easier to grab and other things that work better with a few extra buttons.
 

ghibli99

Member
What's full completion percentage on DKCR? Something tells me I won't do it, but stranger things have happened.

Completion % for DKC3 is actually 105% (dat Hard mode code) So get to it :eek:
So play through it all and get everything again? I don't think so. :) ...not for a long time, anyway. :p

Easier shaking, more comfortable and the stick just feels right in this game which is contrary to most 2D platformers I know. Also pounding the ground is more err....immersive I guess with two things to shake.
Definitely easier shaking (just a sharp downward flick to execute the rolls etc.) plus you don't have to hold down a button to run, easier to grab and other things that work better with a few extra buttons.
Interesting. I'll have to give it a shot since I'm not too far in. Thanks!
 

MrT-Tar

Member
part of the reason I love the DKC games is that so many of the levels feel unique to me as they contain mechanics not found in any other level. For example, DKC3 has the sewer stage where controls were mirrorred while underwater and it also had the stage in a thunderstorm; the original DKC also had the stage with the 'on-off' switches controlling enemies. To contrast, in NSMBWii, the only level that felt entirely unique in that respect was the 'bonecoaster' stage in World 8. Despite playing Super Mario World way many more times, individual levels, for me at least, stick out more from the DKC games.
 

Ixian

Member
Excluding MMOs, DKCR was the first game in many years that I couldn't put down. Its release coincided with a snow storm and Thanksgiving break here in Seattle, which was perfect because when I wasn't playing DKCR I really wanted to be playing DKCR, and I had plenty of time to do so! Think I'm going to do a replay soon.
 

JaseMath

Member
I wasn't that impressed with DKCR until the third level. Some of those temple levels are INSANELY well designed.
 
My favorite is clearly Donkey Kong Country 2. It has the same great adventurous atmosphere like the first one but the gameplay was deeper and more challenging. The game had more secrets and i really liked the pirate theme.

Regarding DCKR: it is a well build game with great level design, but the game is lacking the magically atmosphere of the first two games. It has more of a saturday morning cartoon feel to it and i really didn`t liked that as much.


My rating would be:

DKC2>DKC>DKCR>>>DKC3
 

Hiltz

Member
I never did beat Donkey Kong Country before. It was one of the harder games I played on the SNES but my sister and I enjoyed the mine kart levels by taking turns trying to beat them ( we didn't get very far). We also loved those vulture and beaver enemies and the animal mounts too. I wish they would have returned in DKC Returns. Like OP said, the music in this game is incredible.

I've beaten DKC Returns 100% once. I started up another file several months ago, but haven't made much progress. Retro did an impressive job with nailing the difficulty and level design. Man, those mine kart stages were terrific,especially the more creative ones such as the crystals and dinosaur egg. The music was good but it didn't seem to stand out as much as the original DKC. The motion control didn't bother me much, but I still thought it was unnececessary to have. As for the bosses, I didn't like some of them including Mugly, Thugly, and Colonel Pluck. The golden temple levels were pretty enjoyable and offered some extra difficult levels, but some were of course, easier than others. Lastly, those silhouette levelswere a nice touch. I'm sure most of us wouldn't object to seeing them return in a potential sequel.

DKCR is my second favorite platformer of this generation after Super Mario Galaxy 2.
 

PokéKong

Member
They are all really great games, yes including 3, and I dearly hope this doesn't turn into a series grading thread.

And while Returns is simply another quality DKC game from the perspective of that series, I think when compared to Nintendo's other recent 2D platformer offerings it blows them away, and is the only one in recent history to come close to the greatness of Rayman Origins. So many of the levels just made me fall in love with Retro studios all over, I can just picture them all having brainstorming sessions throwing around all these insane concepts for levels that make them all unique, and full of a sense of adventure and craziness, making sure there's never a dull moment.

I'd like to throw in a vote to use codes to enable Classic Controller support. You can make all the arguments you want about how precisely timed your waggles can get once you really get used to it and good with it, and how it can get almost as precise as a button press if you really try, but it will never be AS good as a button. The rapid Roll->Jump move is an invaluable maneuver which I would have never fully discovered using the wiimote, much less dared to put to general use. Especially if you plan to do any Time Trials.
 
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