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LTTP: Donkey Kong Country 1-3 and Donkey Kong Country Returns

G

ghibli99

Member
DKCR is one of those games that I'm thinking about a lot when I'm not playing it. The level of polish is insanely good! Does anyone know how this game sold? Even though I'm only in the second world, I hope this game sold a ton. I felt the same way about the Galaxy titles: the more I played them, the more I kept asking myself, "How is quality of this magnitude possible?"

BGBW said:
I really should finish Returns. One thing I wasn't keen on was the timing to jump high of an enemy. I never faced this with the Rare titles, especially 3 which uses it a lot like Kiddy's water skimming technique. Maybe I should switch to the nunchuck style control scheme, or homebrew it with the CCPro.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm not sure if this was the greatest control/design decision. Even though I now know what I'm supposed to do, I still occasionally miss. It's an added layer of complexity that might have been better kept how it is in most other Nintendo games.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
I love the timed bounces myself (Diddy jetpack issues aside), but if you're having trouble it's worth noting that you can start holding jump at any point in the air with DK to get the high bounce.
 
P

PokéKong

Member
It was nice to find out that where the vast majority of platformers would just let you hold down the jump button while hopping on a baddie to get some extra height, DCKR actually rewards your good timing by giving you a much higher jump when hitting jump again right as you hit the enemy. It's uncommon but it still feels quite natural.

So did anybody else beat DKCR around the same time as Portal 2, and think
"GEE, what's the deal with games with year and using the MOON to defeat the final boss??"
 
B

big_z

Member
PokéKong;39755690 said:
It was nice to find out that where the vast majority of platformers would just let you hold down the jump button while hopping on a baddie to get some extra height, DCKR actually rewards your good timing by giving you a much higher jump when hitting jump again right as you hit the enemy. It's uncommon but it still feels quite natural.

So did anybody else beat DKCR around the same time as Portal 2, and think
"GEE, what's the deal with games with year and using the MOON to defeat the final boss??"
Click to expand...

You don't need to time the second jump but simply release and repress the jump button before hitting the next enemy.
 
G

ghibli99

Member
big_z said:
You don't need to time the second jump but simply release and repress the jump button before hitting the next enemy.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter when you re-press it? Weird... it seemed to only work when I'd press it right before a bounce, but maybe there was something else going on. Will have to investigate further. :)
 
B

big_z

Member
ghibli99 said:
It doesn't matter when you re-press it? Weird... it seemed to only work when I'd press it right before a bounce, but maybe there was something else going on. Will have to investigate further. :)
Click to expand...

Nope, I figured that out on the last level of laval world where bounce boosting is required.
 
nordique

nordique

Member
For me, DKCR was the best DK game i've ever played, so it is pretty high for me.


Had to repurchase a copy since I gave my old one away.


Its still awesome.

And hard.
 
P

PokéKong

Member
big_z said:
You don't need to time the second jump but simply release and repress the jump button before hitting the next enemy.
Click to expand...

...

fuck


I'd also like to mention that while most cite the control issues and music as the game's only weak points, I thought it was also significantly hurting in the character department. While DK and Diddy have some pretty good personality moments for non-verbal characters, and you've got the occasional little quips from Cranky at his shop which are nowhere near as biting as they once were (has age finally softened up the guy?), that's pretty much it. I miss having a variety of Kongs to interact with with their little stations and useful purposes and activities all around, and the Tikis are no Kremlings, not by a long shot.
 
G

Gartooth

Member
Love the DKC series. (played all of them, but never really got much into 3)

Was a bit bummed in Returns though when Diddy was relegated to being a powerup only in singleplayer.
 
Nabs

Nabs

Member
big_z said:
You don't need to time the second jump but simply release and repress the jump button before hitting the next enemy.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I'm always shocked to hear that people had problems with it. I guess I got lucky and figured it out immediately.
 
D

drspeedy

Member
big_z said:
You don't need to time the second jump but simply release and repress the jump button before hitting the next enemy.
Click to expand...


wait... does that work for multiple boost jumps as well? If I hit one enemy and boost up to another, all I have to do is let off for a second after each bounce and I keep boosting?

how did I not figure that out. The last lava level (red red rising I think) got me time after time when I couldn't nail those. There's a couple really tricky ones in the mine cart levels as well.
 
P

pringles

Member
I got each Donkey Kong Country game at christmas. Those were some great christmases.

Love all of them. The 3rd was just as awesome as the first 2 for me.
 
K

KevinCow

Banned
The problem with bouncing on enemies in Returns is that it throws off your timing if you have Diddy. If you hit the button too early, you hover instead of bouncing. So you have to time it just right.
 
G

ghibli99

Member
Yeah, that "Diddy factor" is probably what's throwing me off and making me hit/hold the jump button right before a bounce.

PokéKong;39756714 said:
I'd also like to mention that while most cite the control issues and music as the game's only weak points, I thought it was also significantly hurting in the character department. While DK and Diddy have some pretty good personality moments for non-verbal characters, and you've got the occasional little quips from Cranky at his shop which are nowhere near as biting as they once were (has age finally softened up the guy?), that's pretty much it. I miss having a variety of Kongs to interact with with their little stations and useful purposes and activities all around, and the Tikis are no Kremlings, not by a long shot.
Click to expand...
I do miss the sounds that the Kremlings made in the SNES games - especially those hilarious grunting noises the bigger ones would make - but DKCR makes up for it with very satisfying visual/audio and tactile feedback when bouncing on enemies. Feels really good, and the physics are just about perfect.

I never really cared much for the SNES NPCs in the games outside of Cranky, so my guess is that this aspect won't bother me.
 
C

Celine

Member
ghibli99 said:
DKCR is one of those games that I'm thinking about a lot when I'm not playing it. The level of polish is insanely good! Does anyone know how this game sold? Even though I'm only in the second world, I hope this game sold a ton. I felt the same way about the Galaxy titles: the more I played them, the more I kept asking myself, "How is quality of this magnitude possible?"
Click to expand...
Last thing we know is that it shipped around 5 million units.
 
E

Exeunt

Member
I'm playing through Donkey Kong Country Returns right now even though I haven't played any of the other Donkey Kong Country titles. The game is absolutely gorgeous and each of the levels are incredibly detailed without being too busy. I like how Donkey Kong has a different weight from someone like Mario and I've just completed World 6 without having any problems with motion control. Overall it feels like quite the polished title, which isn't surprising given Retro's pedigree.

Maybe I'm just not that good at the game, but I've found it quite tough so far. I typically try to spell out KONG the first time though each level so I don't have to deal with the letters resetting if I don't collect them all, but I've also had difficulty just making it to the end of certain levels. In many ways, the game is quite forgiving; I'm glad puzzle pieces carry over even if you die and I've always had enough lives thanks to the distribution of balloons and bananas around particularly tricky spots. On the other hand, losing Diddy can be quite punishing if there's not a barrel in sight around the checkpoints since the lack of a jet-pack means jumps have to be more precise. But overall I've managed to push through and reaching the end of a nightmarish level feels great.

The only parts during which I feel the difficulty is a little much are the mine cart and rocket barrel levels. Maybe they would be cheapened if there were more checkpoints but it is a little discouraging to finally master a hard passage only to be blasted into oblivion by a new obstacle that arrives at lightning speed. Unsurprisingly, I think World 4 took my lives from the 60s down to 20 or so and I think I've successfully triggered (but not used) the Super Guide in every mine cart level in the game. I'm getting better at them, but I'm still not a fan of those sequences even though they're apparently Donkey Kong Country staples.

But I am still enjoying the game overall. I might be used to and prefer the pacing and difficulty level of the average Mario platformer but that doesn't mean I can't have some fun with Donkey Kong as well.

And here's a quick question for anyone who has completed the game: As early as the second world, I've come across different "targets" on walls or hanging sacks that I'm not sure how to open. Without completely giving it away, do I have to make use of the moves at my disposal to trigger or break these objects or should I be looking at cues in the environment? I'll be replaying the levels eventually for more puzzle pieces (though I think time trials would be needlessly frustrating for me) so it would be nice to have a hint to work with.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
I've never played through DKC3, sadly. However, I'll say DKC2 is one of the greatest platformers ever. DKC holds a lot of memories for me, but doesn't have the level design that DKC2 has. DKCR while a solid title bothers me in a few ways; The controls don't feel as tight to me as something like DKC2, and there are many stages where you're required to die to figure out what to do / where to do. I don't exactly love gameplay like that, whereas a game like DKC2 you can simply use your good platforming reactions to get through a level as you play it. And if you fail, it's usually because you screwed up, not because you had yet to figure out the challenge.
 
J

JoeInky

Member
Exeunt said:
The only parts during which I feel the difficulty is a little much are the mine cart and rocket barrel levels.
Click to expand...

Just wait until you unlock mirror mode, level's flipped, diddy removed, checkpoints removed and one-hit deaths.
Feels great when you beat a hard level in that mode.


Exeunt said:
And here's a quick question for anyone who has completed the game: As early as the second world, I've come across different "targets" on walls or hanging sacks that I'm not sure how to open. Without completely giving it away, do I have to make use of the moves at my disposal to trigger or break these objects or should I be looking at cues in the environment? I'll be replaying the levels eventually for more puzzle pieces (though I think time trials would be needlessly frustrating for me) so it would be nice to have a hint to work with.
Click to expand...

Don't really know how to answer that without spoiling it, I guess you could say you have to use things in the environment.
But to be completely specific:
You have to throw barrels at them if I remember correctly
 
P

PokéKong

Member
Exeunt said:
And here's a quick question for anyone who has completed the game: As early as the second world, I've come across different "targets" on walls or hanging sacks that I'm not sure how to open. Without completely giving it away, do I have to make use of the moves at my disposal to trigger or break these objects or should I be looking at cues in the environment? I'll be replaying the levels eventually for more puzzle pieces (though I think time trials would be needlessly frustrating for me) so it would be nice to have a hint to work with.
Click to expand...

You have to throw a barrel at them. A Diddy or a regular blank barrel will do.

Odd how Returns is very light on barrel throwing compared to the others. I guess rolling and ramming yourself into objects to break them took the role of barrel tossing in most situations, it took me a while to figure out those target sacks too once barrels actually came into play.
 
E

Exeunt

Member
JoeInky said:
Just wait until you unlock mirror mode, level's flipped, diddy removed, checkpoints removed and one-hit deaths.
Feels great when you beat a hard level in that mode.
Click to expand...

I wonder if I even have the skills to complete that mode! I completed the level (in World 6 I think?) with the Rambi blocks at the end and wondered if I would be able to ever reach that point without falling down a bottomless pit. I probably wouldn't attack mirror mode right after finishing normal mode, but that does sound absurdly difficult. At least the game deals with your deaths very quickly—I've felt that it throws you back into the action with relatively little delay, which is fortunate considering how much I die in pretty much every level at this point. It's hard, but not insurmountable in the regular game—for someone at my skill level, mirror mode might be too much. I should probably focus on beating the game before I worry about any of this though.

JoeInky said:
Don't really know how to answer that without spoiling it, I guess you could say you have to use things in the environment.
But to be completely specific:
You have to throw barrels at them if I remember correctly
Click to expand...

PokéKong;39762470 said:
You have to throw a barrel at them. A Diddy or a regular blank barrel will do.

Odd how Returns is very light on barrel throwing compared to the others. I guess rolling and ramming yourself into objects to break them took the role of barrel tossing in most situations, it took me a while to figure out those target sacks too once barrels actually came into play.
Click to expand...

Oh, okay. I doubt I would've figured that out by myself without a lot of trial and error; I figured I would have to beat the ground somewhere to trigger something in the background that would appear and smash whatever was in my way. I thought the barrels seemed rather randomly strewn about when I found they never contained anything, but I figured you were able to use them to clear certain paths of enemies if you wanted to. Thanks for the tip!
 
B

Barrel Cannon

Member
Playing DKC at my cousins house made me buy a snes and I got the Yoshi's island bundle because the DKC bundle was sold out. I later got the chance to buy another game and I saw DKC2 and DKC3 in the store(DKC1 was sold out yet again). I chose DKC2 because it was like 5 dollars cheaper(which is sort of meaningless because the game was still around $85, and no that doesn't include tax).

I was trying to be a good kid and choosing the cheaper one to make the purchase easier on my dad's wallet because back then a $85 dollar game was a big purchase(you modern day gamers have it lucky!). I'm glad I made that choice because I eventually played the other ones as I grew up and DKC2 was my favorite. It made those rainy days so good.

PS
Listen to the DKC2 remixed soundtrack from Overclocked Remix!
 
M

_machine

Member
What's GAF's opinion on the GBA ports?

I've played the all three original on my friends SNES years ago and having just played all the Mario Advance Ports I've been really thinking of getting the three GBA ports for my NDSL. I can easily get all three for a reasonable price and dump them for my GBA flash cart for easier use and don't have to worry about save batteries. I'm just a little worried after the world map thread which showed how they'd ruined the world map.
 
K

KevinCow

Banned
_machine said:
What's GAF's opinion on the GBA ports?

I've played the all three original on my friends SNES years ago and having just played all the Mario Advance Ports I've been really thinking of getting the three GBA ports for my NDSL. I can easily get all three for a reasonable price and dump them for my GBA flash cart for easier use and don't have to worry about save batteries. I'm just a little worried after the world map thread which showed how they'd ruined the world map.
Click to expand...

Undeniably inferior to the originals, but still pretty great games if they're the only way you can play them.

If you have a Wii, I would highly recommend getting the SNES versions on Virtual Console instead.
 
G

ghibli99

Member
Altazor said:
he did, but I thought the GBA-DKC3 soundtrack was pretty poor, with some exceptions :(

I hate what he did to the snow, forest and mountain themes.
Click to expand...
Interesting... I listened to a bunch of them earlier, and I liked almost all of them. Seems like Wise focused more on melody than atmospherics, so I guess it depends on what you favor more in your videogame music. When it comes to mascot platformers, I prefer songs that instantly get stuck in my head. I've always loved his almost Amiga-like approach to instrumentation and song structure... Chris Hulsbeck's work on Super Turrican (SNES) impressed me in very similar ways. I loved showing off the music to that game and DKC1 to my friends back in the day!
 
A

Altazor

Member
ghibli99 said:
Interesting... I listened to a bunch of them earlier, and I liked almost all of them. Seems like Wise focused more on melody than atmospherics, so I guess it depends on what you favor more in your videogame music. When it comes to mascot platformers, I prefer songs that instantly get stuck in my head. I've always loved his almost Amiga-like approach to instrumentation and song structure... Chris Hulsbeck's work on Super Turrican (SNES) impressed me in very similar ways. I loved showing off the music to that game and DKC1 to my friends back in the day!
Click to expand...

exactly. Eveline Fischer's OG Water World is dark as fuck, but not as memorable as Wise's... and, well, that fits perfectly with the water levels in DKC3: we're close to the abyss, dark, mysterious, oppresive, unknown.

On the other hand, Wise's Stilt Village is far, FAR better than Fischer's.
 
T

tiggerkiddo

Member
_machine said:
What's GAF's opinion on the GBA ports?

I've played the all three original on my friends SNES years ago and having just played all the Mario Advance Ports I've been really thinking of getting the three GBA ports for my NDSL. I can easily get all three for a reasonable price and dump them for my GBA flash cart for easier use and don't have to worry about save batteries. I'm just a little worried after the world map thread which showed how they'd ruined the world map.
Click to expand...

Yea not as good as the originals but still good enough ports. They will do nicely for on the go but I remember that it seemed like there was almost too much red on the screen. Maybe it was my bad eyes but at times it seemed like the background of the levels made Diddy/Dixie blend in a little much. Probably just my poor vision.

And count me one of those rare few who prefered the SNES DKC3 soundtrack to the Wise GBA one.
 
G

ghibli99

Member
tiggerkiddo said:
Yea not as good as the originals but still good enough ports. They will do nicely for on the go but I remember that it seemed like there was almost too much red on the screen. Maybe it was my bad eyes but at times it seemed like the background of the levels made Diddy/Dixie blend in a little much. Probably just my poor vision.
Click to expand...
I don't think it was you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKeJ3FX1F0
http://gbatemp.net/topic/297885-don...tion-request/page__view__findpost__p__3732696

Probably had to really mess with the palette if this was released when unlit GBAs were still commonplace.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Jumped on a few of the DKC games earlier, noticed a small thing in DKC2 that I often forget, on ship stages when you jump on an enemy and they fall off screen you may have noticed they splash into the water, I think the same thing happens in the swamp. This is actually kind of obvious but there's another stage type with a quirk like this, the lava stages have a noticeable smoke sizzle where the enemy falls off screen into the lava, damn I love this game.
And my brief stint on DKCR leads me to think that visually Mast Blast is a very cool stage with its forward progression into the background, starting in the jungle, blasting to the beach, then to various pirate ships. I also gave this single wii remote control scheme a whirl, felt awkward and I swiftly headed back to the nunchuck.

_machine said:
What's GAF's opinion on the GBA ports?

I've played the all three original on my friends SNES years ago and having just played all the Mario Advance Ports I've been really thinking of getting the three GBA ports for my NDSL. I can easily get all three for a reasonable price and dump them for my GBA flash cart for easier use and don't have to worry about save batteries. I'm just a little worried after the world map thread which showed how they'd ruined the world map.
Click to expand...
In general the SNES versions obliterate the GBA ports.
DKC3 is better than the other ports at least, it's worth looking into for the extra world and different soundtrack. But don't go near the DKC1/2 ports, the sound is so horrible it could make me cry.

Altazor said:
he did, but I thought the GBA-DKC3 soundtrack was pretty poor, with some exceptions :(

I hate what he did to the snow, forest and mountain themes.
Click to expand...

The snow theme is utter balls, but I will not have you slander the forest and mountain themes, sure they are a complete tonal shift but it's great stuff (well, opinions and all that so you can in fact slander them), granted I can understand how the overly jaunty new forest theme may be grumbled at when being chased by a giant Saw. The mountain theme has the unfortunate task of going up against the most beloved SNES DKC3 track but I like its hill top zone style take on a mountain theme and the occasional wind ambiance.
Ambiance is actually quite a big thing in the GBA version, the riverbank stages are entirely environmental sound effects unless you go in the water which brings in a great little piano melody, unfortunately the water is deadly in 2/3 riverbank stages. Other stages like the Lakes, Snow, Jungle and Pipes also have silent stretches with no music and plenty of sound effects, it's a bit odd, possibly compensating for the atmoshpheric style of the original SNES soundtrack.
 
A

Altazor

Member
Nocturnowl said:
The snow theme is utter balls, but I will not have you slander the forest and mountain themes, sure they are a complete tonal shift but it's great stuff (well, opinions and all that so you can in fact slander them), granted I can understand how the overly jaunty new forest theme may be grumbled at when being chased by a giant Saw. The mountain theme has the unfortunate task of going up against the most beloved SNES DKC3 track but I like its hill top zone style take on a mountain theme and the occasional wind ambiance.
Ambiance is actually quite a big thing in the GBA version, the riverbank stages are entirely environmental sound effects unless you go in the water which brings in a great little piano melody, unfortunately the water is deadly in 2/3 riverbank stages. Other stages like the Lakes, Snow, Jungle and Pipes also have silent stretches with no music and plenty of sound effects, it's a bit odd, possibly compensating for the atmoshpheric style of the original SNES soundtrack.
Click to expand...

Nah, the mountain theme is perfectly fine on its own, it's just that... yeah, well, you said it: it's going up against THE DKC3 track, the one with the most memorable melody (and immediate reference to its predecessor)...

and yeah, well, you are also right about the sound effects as a compensation. It's a shame the GBA soundchip sucks though - I wonder how the GBA-DKC3 songs would sound with a SNES-style chip.
 
A

Anticitizen One

Banned
While I love DKCR I prefer the bosses and claymation look of the SNES DKC games and the music too (Which is strange because Retro did such an exceptional job with the music on metroid prime trilogy).
 
R

Razek

Banned
atbigelow said:
Actual DKCR version of Fear Factory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sReKKTg8opw
Click to expand...

It's a good try, but for me it doesn't capture that original deep bass that made it sound so good. Also, the instrumentation choices are sometimes annoying on the ears. I think the original is far superior.

I've never played 2 or 3 but have listened to their music soundtracks many times over the years. Some day I should get around to playing them.
 
K

KevinCow

Banned
I think the only DKC3 GBA track that possibly beats its SNES counterpart is the Waterfall theme. And even then... it's close. The SNES version is still great.

I love Dave Wise, but I think Eveline's take was mostly better.

Also gotta agree with Altazor that the snow, tree, and mountain themes were way too jaunty. They just didn't fit at all.
 
D

DICKS AHOY

Banned
Anticitizen One said:
While I love DKCR I prefer the bosses and claymation look of the SNES DKC games and the music too (Which is strange because Retro did such an exceptional job with the music on metroid prime trilogy).
Click to expand...

Main problem is they tried too hard to emulate Wise's style for Returns rather than sticking to what they were already good at. I think they also mentioned in interviews they were trying to emulate Kirkhope/Banjo-Kazooie to make it feel more 'familiar' to Rare's style which definitely comes through at some points in Returns, such as the mole train boss.

I mean, something like this would have sounded stunning in in a DKC game. I guess since DKC3 gets unfairly dumped on for having a different direction to the first two games Retro played it far too safe? Tracks like Water World already have that other-wordly feel you'd find in Super Metroid and the Prime trilogy, so it would've been a good enough fit.
 
D

drspeedy

Member
boutdown said:
I would have played Returns if I they allowed me to use a normal controller. I missed out, I know.
Click to expand...

1) Hack

2) Dolphin

3) Man up! (and take your butthurt like the rest of us)


Also: David Wise for life. Even the people that HATE on SFA agree one one thing...
no offense to eveline


@Astrosanity: yup. And the whole lava levels REEK of Magmoor Caverns...
 
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