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LTTP: Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Not as bad as 4!

The ratio between gameplay to cutscene or what have you is way way worse.

I swear that game can ramble about nothing for 10 minutes and people will just excuse it, blah.

Don't forget that MGS1 is a very short game in general though.

You go from "Snake, it's Master Miller" to "SNAKE, DID YOU LIKE MY SUNGLASSES?!" in like 3-4 hours. It's my favourite game of all-time, but I have to admit that MGS1 wasn't just shorter with its cutscenes, it was shorter period.

So the ratio might be somewhat similar. MGS4 is simply more game, not just more cutscene. For MGS2 or MGS3 though, you've got a point.
 

VDenter

Banned
But all of MGS is cutscene heavy, expect Peace Walker and V.

It's just how MGS was. Sure, they were shorter in 1 and longer in 4, but MGS was all about story told through cutscenes. You either love it or hate it.

No because most cutscenes in MGS4 are overstretched garbage. They are nowhere near as interesting as the ones in the previous games. When the game is not showing fan service down your throat it is showing you a boring power point slide presentation.
 

JeffZero

Purple Drazi
This is where the ride ends for me. Wonderful, wonderful game, flawed as it is. I love the crazy amount of cutscenes.
 

sotojuan

Member
MGS4 is the prime example of how less limitations negatively affect designers and developers. Kojima just went crazy with the PS3's power and storage.
 

Tagyhag

Member
I liked the game, especially the music and its sheer amount of replayable content/easter eggs.

But I guess I just never felt like it was as flawless as most people describe it.

The gameplay was still a bit clunky, the story was silly and overused nanonachines, the B&B Corps and their backstories were fucking awful, and chapter 3 is boring and chapter 4 is pure fanservice in a way that tries to mask its poor pacing. Maybe if I had played the 1st MGS when it just came out and I was much younger it could have blinded me.

I think I would have enjoyed the game lot more had the entire game been like chapter 1 and 2, especially the latter.

All that said, it was a fitting conclusion to the Solid storyline and I had a good time with it. Though people saying it's one of the best stories in all mediums (looking at you Dan Ryckert) baffle me.

People just need to watch more movies or read more.
 
May not be my favourite MGS - that goes to MGS2 - but I absolutely love the ridiculousness of Mount Snakemore.

2614951-metal-gear-solid-4-outer-haven.jpg


Oh, and the fight with Ocelot at the end hits all the right notes.
 

Gen X

Trust no one. Eat steaks.
It's my least favorite after MGS2 although there were some memorable moments. Those adverts too!
 
People can say whatever they want about MGS4, but at least it was a true MGS game with Kojima creative touches and quirks ingrained in it. MGS5 felt like a loss of focus. You immediately notice how it was a reaction to what other developers were doing rather than something he wanted to do. I remember his interview when GTA 5 came out and how he wanted a game that achieved similar levels of openness, and it worried me. Unfortunately my concerns were at the right place, and MGS5 was just a game that had MGS name on it nothing more. All the things that makes an MGS game an MGS game were gone from MGS5.
 

BiGBoSSMk23

A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
Peace Walker and V really made me appreciate this game.

I had a lot of criticisms in the following years after it.

But really, it's the same characters we loved, no fuckery, just Kojima in full-swing.

Fan service to the max and that's a beautiful thing.

We will likely never see another game like this get made for any beloved franchise.

So proud of its ridiculous long windedness, so unabashedly deluded with its grandeur, so much heart...

Fuck yeah, MGS4.

Two time GAF GOTY 4 life.
 

-SG

Member
People say 4 is way over the top, but what Metal Gear game isn't? I absolutely loved this game. It brought me back to gaming after a long, long hiatus.
 

sotojuan

Member
I don't think people realize how many times Kojima said he didn't want to make them any more.

Ever since the first MGS right? I mean, I get it and it's important context, but the game is still not fun. I'm sure he had a choice between 8 hour cutscenes and 4 hour cutscenes.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
Getting this in 2008 was the point I FINALLY decided to join in on the world of PlayStation... for me this game WAS the killer app that made me buy the console, even MGS 5 didn't give me that feeling, and that game is the only MGS I've ever traded in, still got my copy of 4 to this day!
 

offshore

Member
A classic. I don't know how everybody else approached trying to track Naomi, but I was taking it really seriously, meticulously studying footprints, constant map-checking and everything :lol.

No exaggeration to say that that is one of my favourite moments in all of gaming.
 
Definitely the worst entry in the series, for me. Unpopular opinion, but hey.

There's no amount of fanservice (that's all it is, really) that can save it.

Aside from act 4 and some other sequences, it's bad.

And don't get me started on the "beauty and beasts" unit. That's embarassing, even by Kojima's standard.

Thank God we got Ground Zeroes after this mess, which to me felt like a little MGS1 remake (the intro, at least) with good gameplay.

Nothing will ever come close to what MGS was on the psone (and admittedly, I was a little kid, so maybe I was easy to please); the perfect balance between over-the-top/awkward and serious tone.
 

Blablurn

Member
God I loved 4 so much. I remember that there was huge party going on during the release of the game. But I decided not to go there and play MGS instead all weekend long. No regrets.
 

13ruce

Banned
This game was the shit it was a crazy ride played through it with friends and my sister multiple times in my early teenage years, it was awesome AF. We all were into the game the crazy cutscenes the gameplay we loved it to death.

I will never forget the experiences/memories this game made it was awesome.
 
My favorite game of all time. A truly amazing experience.

Nice to see first post nailing it. xD

Even though "nanomachines" were mentioned way more then they had to and even with that god awful meryl and.. akiba(?) fight scene, the game was still awesome. I mean I have never cringed as much as I did when I saw those too rolling around, killing frogs and eventually deciding to get married to each other. I have no idea how anyone though that scene was a keeper.

The ending also dragged on way too long and I think it would have been way more memorable if snake had just shot himself. Tragic but memorable. Also the "here's to you" cover which ends the last cutscene is amazing.

In my opinion best mgs.
 
Worst in the series, no competition (not counting portables or spin offs:

Raiden: “I won't live a proxy life... A slave to someone else's will.”

Snake: “I'm a shadow. One that no light will shine on. As long as you follow me, you'll never see the day.”

Raiden: “You and I are both just pawns in this proxy war. But once this is over, we will have our freedom.”

…

Snake: “Don't be an idiot. You know you've got someone to protect.”

Raiden: “It was never going to work out for me. It even rained the day I was born.”

Snake: “You've got it all wrong. You were the lightning in that rain. You can still shine through the darkness.”

Raiden: “The lightning....”

Jim-Carrey-What-the-hell-are-you-talking-about.gif


The melodrama in this was too much. Game went just too far into it's own asshole.
 
Thoroughly enjoyed it when I played it back when released and it's definitely up there as one of my more memorable gaming memories.

That said, When I tried replaying it later on, I just couldn't get back into it. It's not that I think there's anything overtly wrong with it, I just feel I got everything I could out of it in a single playthrough, and that's fine.
 

Bl@de

Member
Worst in the series, no competition (not counting portables or spin offs:

The melodrama in this was too much. Game went just too far into it's own asshole.

Yep. Game was a terrible bloated anime with some gameplay interruptions. And the bosses were just ...
 

WoolyNinja

Member
I'm hopeful that Death Stranding is Kojima going back to this style of game. I miss the over the top awesome cutscenes, the only thing close for me recently was Yakuza 0.
 

Three

Member
Game was great. I actually played it really really late too (when the ps4 was coming out late). I loved the fight on the submarine. I loved the Metal gear battle on the dock. I loved the varied boss fights. Loved everything about it even though I enjoyed 1 and 2 in a different way. Everything about it has this over the top epic feel which I can understand some not liking.
 

SomTervo

Member
Act 1 > 6/10 (would be 10 if it weren't for constant cutscene interruptions)

Act 2 > 10/10

Act 3 > 3/10

Act 4 > 7/10

Act 5 > 4/10 (it's literally minutes of gameplay)

Just can't reconcile that. I really, really don't like MGS4.

MGS4 and Max Payne 3 are two of the worst-paced games in history. They both boil down to "clear one room/area > cutscene > walk through one small room > cutscene > clear another small room/area > cutscene" ad nauseam.

At least in MGS1-3 and V you got long stretches where you were free to explore or there were no interruptions. The gameplay really got to speak. MGS4 fucks that up so badly.

Story is fun but the pacing just fucks it.

Definitely the worst entry in the series, for me. Unpopular opinion, but hey.

There's no amount of fanservice (that's all it is, really) that can save it.

Aside from act 4 and some other sequences, it's bad.

And don't get me started on the "beauty and beasts" unit. That's embarassing, even by Kojima's standard.

Thank God we got Ground Zeroes after this mess, which to me felt like a little MGS1 remake (the intro, at least) with good gameplay.

Nothing will ever come close to what MGS was on the psone (and admittedly, I was a little kid, so maybe I was easy to please); the perfect balance between over-the-top/awkward and serious tone.

Worst in the series, no competition (not counting portables or spin offs:

Raiden: ”I won't live a proxy life... A slave to someone else's will."

Snake: ”I'm a shadow. One that no light will shine on. As long as you follow me, you'll never see the day.”

Raiden: ”You and I are both just pawns in this proxy war. But once this is over, we will have our freedom."

...

Snake: ”Don't be an idiot. You know you've got someone to protect."

Raiden: ”It was never going to work out for me. It even rained the day I was born."

Snake: ”You've got it all wrong. You were the lightning in that rain. You can still shine through the darkness."

Raiden: ”The lightning...."

Jim-Carrey-What-the-hell-are-you-talking-about.gif


The melodrama in this was too much. Game went just too far into it's own asshole.

Yup
 
Not as bad as 4!

The ratio between gameplay to cutscene or what have you is way way worse.

I swear that game can ramble about nothing for 10 minutes and people will just excuse it, blah.

4 has the most cutscenes overall, but nothing is as bad as the final third of 2 (basically from once you reach Shell 2 onward) in terms of cutscene to gameplay ratio.
 
I generally hated it for the nanomachines story, soulless bosses, and awful character depictions. The polygons were excellent, but the colors were just bad.

At least there was some Boktai.
 

SomTervo

Member
But all of MGS is cutscene heavy, expect Peace Walker and V.

It's just how MGS was. Sure, they were shorter in 1 and longer in 4, but MGS was all about story told through cutscenes. You either love it or hate it.

MGS games HAVE long cutscenes, but those cutscenes were traditionally paced well with gameplay. 1-3 were like:

> cutscene-heavy exposition
> short stretch of gameplay
> pretty long cutscene
> very long stretch of gameplay
> short cutscene
> longish stretch of gameplay
> short cutscene
> longish stretch of gameplay
> super long cutscene

Etc. That's what 1-3 at all like. They have long cutscenes but there's gameplay segments to match or surpass those. Like parts of MGS3 where you go through 3-4 whole substantial jungle areas before another cutscene or story beat.

MGS4 is like (especially in Middle East and Shadow Moses)

> 10 min cutscene
> 10 mins of gameplay
> 20 min cutscene
> 1 min of gameplay*
> 5 min cutscene
> 15 min gameplay
> 10 min cutscene

etc. It's just unplayable for me. Couldn't bear repeated playthroughs.

*In Middle East there's literally a part where you come out of a cutscene into a room, walk across that room, and then another cutscene begins (think it's the monkey/Drebin introduction cutscene).
 
Worst in the series, no competition (not counting portables or spin offs:

Raiden: ”I won't live a proxy life... A slave to someone else's will."

Snake: ”I'm a shadow. One that no light will shine on. As long as you follow me, you'll never see the day."

Raiden: ”You and I are both just pawns in this proxy war. But once this is over, we will have our freedom."

...

Snake: ”Don't be an idiot. You know you've got someone to protect."

Raiden: ”It was never going to work out for me. It even rained the day I was born."

Snake: ”You've got it all wrong. You were the lightning in that rain. You can still shine through the darkness."

Raiden: ”The lightning...."

Jim-Carrey-What-the-hell-are-you-talking-about.gif


The melodrama in this was too much. Game went just too far into it's own asshole.

Nothing there was as bad as the Johnny/Meryl cutscene.
 
MGS games HAVE long cutscenes, but those cutscenes were traditionally paced well with gameplay. 1-3 were like:

> cutscene-heavy exposition
> short stretch of gameplay
> pretty long cutscene
> very long stretch of gameplay
> short cutscene
> longish stretch of gameplay
> short cutscene
> longish stretch of gameplay
> super long cutscene

Etc. That's what 1-3 at all like. They have long cutscenes but there's gameplay segments to match or surpass those. Like parts of MGS3 where you go through 3-4 whole substantial jungle areas before another cutscene or story beat.

MGS4 is like (especially in Middle East and Shadow Moses)

> 10 min cutscene
> 10 mins of gameplay
> 20 min cutscene
> 1 min of gameplay*
> 5 min cutscene
> 15 min gameplay
> 5 min cutscene

etc. It's just unplayable for me. Couldn't bear repeated playthroughs.

*In Middle East there's literally a part where you come out of a cutscene into a room, walk across that room, and then another cutscene begins (think it's the monkey/Drebin introduction cutscene).

Not really. You basically describe 1 and 4 though. 2 was almost as bad as 4 in terms of pacing. There were only two extended gameplay sequences with minimal cutscene interruption: The tanker and the bomb diffusing segment. And then for 3, it was basically the vast majority of cutscenes all occurred in the first 4th (up thru the Ocelot fight) and final fourth (once you reach the fortress). The middle of the game (starting with the cave until you reach the fortress there was barely any cutscenes at all... the only one of significance being the Sokolov one.
 

SomTervo

Member
Not really. You basically describe 1 and 4 though. 2 was almost as bad as 4 in terms of pacing. There were only two extended gameplay sequences with minimal cutscene interruption: The tanker and the bomb diffusing segment. And then for 3, it was basically the vast majority of cutscenes all occurred in the first 4th (up thru the Ocelot fight) and final fourth (once you reach the fortress). The middle of the game (starting with the cave until you reach the fortress there was barely any cutscenes at all... the only one of significance being the Sokolov one.

There were definitely still a lot of interruptions in 2, but the few egregiously long cutscenes were padded out. Most of the cutscenes were way shorter than MGS4's.

1 is a way shorter game than any of them, with shorter cutscenes and shorter gameplay segments. I think the ratio is OK.

Yes, 3's big stretch is in the middle, but I think all of MGS4's gameplay alone would fit into that stretch. There's so much more gameplay in MGS3. 1 and 2 are tighter things.

Besides, I don't think 1-3 have the 'one room > cutscene > one room > cutscene' effect that MGS4 has going on for substantial portions of the game.

I'm trying to base my argument around length and quantity of cutscenes, but in reality it's the placement of the cutscenes that is what fucks up the pacing.
 

Vagrant

Member
The worst in the series to me, by far. The cutscenes are boring and far too long for how uninteresting they are. The story itself is garbage that came from Kojima listening to his insane fan base that is just over-explanation city. Not as inventive as MGS2 and not fun like MGS3. The characters are mostly terrible, but again, not in a fun way like previous games (any cutscene with Naomi is enough to make my eyes roll backwards into my head). Marked the turning point where the fan service in the games went from a bit much to extremely creepy. Let's fetishize PTSD-stricken war victims who will dance and pose for you- wooooo!

Most importantly, the meager amount of gameplay in there is clunky and poorly balanced after the initial spectacle of it wears off. The war areas are half-baked and more annoying than anything with things like infinite spawning enemies in a stealth game, straight out of CoD. Can be sneaking through an area and a enemy will just appear out of nowhere and run straight into you. The problems with chapter 3 and 4 are well established so I won't even get into them. I feel there's only five truly good sneaking sequences in the entire game: the start of chapter 1 until you get your gear from MK2, infiltrating liquids camp after you see the beasts the first time, The very beginning village of chapter 2, tracking trail after laughing octopus, and the one sneaking area in chapter 5. The rest are all marred by other crap that distracts and annoys (see infinite respawns, etc).

Oh and the shooting feels clunky, enemies aren't fun to shoot, they barely react. They just twitch as you shoot loads of bullets into them until they do their ridiculous ragdoll somersault upon death. Just a huge downgrade from previous games. Which sucks given the game wants you shoot those guns during the war sequences. The large amount of weapons feel like a squandered opportunity given how little you'll use them. Oh and another reason the shooting action feels unsatisfying, Snake constantly stumbles with hit stun as he's shot taking away his aim, it doesn't increase the difficulty, it just makes the action feel tedious and janky. Previous games had a bit of this but it was rarer, and they didn't focus on the action as much as this one.

The boss fights are fun overall, but have some serious issues too. The same stupid post-robot boss fight with the beasts wears out its welcome after the first one. It just straight up repeats and later ones add nothing new. Just an excuse to ogle the aforementioned women. The bosses themselves are a spectacle, but outside of maybe the wolf fight there's next to no variety in how you fight them, just big ol' damage sponges. A total letdown after MGS3. Heck, even for all the complaints about the bosses in MGSV at least you had other options with how you dealt with them rather than just shoot until dead/knocked out.

Basically the game can be neat the first time through, and certainly brings a lot of spectacle and nostalgia. However, after that, it just doesn't hold up unlike the rest of the games. Replays feel like a complete chore. If you did like the game, you're doing yourself a favor if you never replay it.
 

Kinyou

Member
I like the game over all but it does have a pacing problem, and I'm not talking about the cutscenes here. After act 2 it just starts to deviate more and more from the core gameplay. In fact, after act 3 you dont even encounter normal human enemies anymore, it's just geckos, mini geckos or frogs from that point forward and fighting those just isn't fun. The stealth aspect gets also more and more sidelined as the acts progress.
 
There were definitely still a lot of interruptions in 2, but the few egregiously long cutscenes were padded out. Most of the cutscenes were way shorter than MGS4's.

1 is a way shorter game than any of them, with shorter cutscenes and shorter gameplay segments. I think the ratio is OK.

Yes, 3's big stretch is in the middle, but I think all of MGS4's gameplay alone would fit into that stretch. There's so much more gameplay in MGS3. 1 and 2 are tighter things.

Besides, I don't think 1-3 have the 'one room > cutscene > one room > cutscene' effect that MGS4 has going on for substantial portions of the game.

I'm trying to base my argument around length and quantity of cutscenes, but in reality it's the placement of the cutscenes that is what fucks up the pacing.

Yes, I understand what you are saying in regards to pacing. I actually think 2 is the worst in this regard. I actually thought 3 was the worst in terms of quality though. The Boss was the only interesting character. Vulgan was just boring and Eva I could take or leave.
 
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