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[nkarafo]

I guess you've finally realized that your last couple of posts in our exchange were... nonsense.

Anyway, let me know when you actually want to engage in productive discussion about this video game. Otherwise, I'm done with you.

I'll bite.

In order to have a "productive discussion" you need to follow the topic. You quoted my post without context. Like i said, my first post was my opinion. Nothing more. And then another poster told me it's a troll post because the features i complain about were intended by the dev. So i made another post answering that "just because it's intended doesn't mean i should like it". What i mean with this is that being an intended feature it doesn't mean you can't criticize it, which is what that poster's was trying to tell me. Which was an absurd point to have.

Whether i liked those features or not were beside the point.

You then quote my answer to him and you post something that had nothing to add to the particular argument between me and that poster.

 

[Blarg]

There's some great platforming designs but unfortunately Mario's movement abilities being nerfed ruin the game for me. It's the Brawl of the 3D Marios.

 

[EatinOlives]

There's some great platforming designs but unfortunately Mario's movement abilities being nerfed ruin the game for me. It's the Brawl of the 3D Marios.

No way, this is the game that easily has the best and most precise controls for a 3D platformer.

At first I balked at decisions like 8-way directional movement, but when I was playing through the game I realized how brilliant that decision was. It not only allows you as a player to be able to turn and move around on a dime without any fear of "veering" off to the side onto your death, but the level designers were also able to trust that you had that much precision and designed later levels accordingly. You'd pull off long jumps in rapid succession with precision and speed that simply weren't possible in the pervious games.

It's brilliant for this type of platformer. Playing SMG2 is returning to the same level design philosophy (collections of disjointed platforms that take you from A to B in a highly linear fashion focusing on acrobatics), but without the controls to back that design up. 3DW is an absolute refinement over the style of levels they were going for since SMG1.

 

[Mandelbo]

If it didn't have the few arbitrary "you need to use the gamepad to play this level" levels, I think I'd prefer it to 3DL overall - it's still a fantastic game, easily one of the best on the Wii U, even if I think the structure is more well suited to handheld.

Also I agree that locking movement to eight directions here works very much in the game's favour, moreso than Galaxy because of the camera limitations I feel.

 

[MadJackChurchill]

EDIT: Not worth derailing this discussion.

Obviously this is a different beast to the adventure Marios. Different strokes etc.

 

[StormBrute]

It really is amazingly good; it might be my favorite Mario game when I think back on it. Champion's Road was like a religious experience, trying dozens upon dozens of times to finally beat it.

The co-op just makes it even better and more fun to play. I just love it.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Well... Yeah. As far as i know things in games are intended by the developers? They aren't using a random feature generator?

Thinking about it, most games and similar platformers use a button to run. Third-person open world games, platformers such as Rayman, first person shooters. I don't really get that aspect of your complaint. How is that antiquated when it's the norm for most games today?

 

[BowieZ]

It's too weird and disjointed for my tastes, with randomly assigned world maps that make no sense.

 

[Business]

I hope Nintendo sticks with the formula the same way it does with 2D Mario. Maybe even replace 2D Mario all together with it.

 

[AgeEighty]

l don't think you understand what he meant by sense of place.

Galaxy had a far greater sense of place for a few reasons: first it had a hub, that evolved throughout the game and felt alive. There was Rosalina's backstory you could stumble across by visiting a library. Even the levels themselves, albeit abstract and sometimes absurd (toilet bowl beach) felt more like actual places, thanks to NPCs inhabiting them, more natural looking formations (waterfalls, grottos, underground lakes, ice mountains etc) and simply better contextualization: you're supposed to be on a space adventure so it makes sense for you to jump from planetoids to planetoids.

3D World was purely functional design. Some people like it but to me it made it feel soulless and factory made.

I know what he meant. But the bulk of 3DW levels are the same way: they're hills, mansions, snowy plains, deserts, volcanoes, train cars, and so forth. It wasn't just a maze of abstract geometric shapes. I think Galaxy was the more abstract of the two location-wise; more of the levels were generically spacey.

The punchline is that the most abstract levels in 3DW were the post-Bowser ones, which are themed after Galaxy.

 

[nkarafo]

Thinking about it, most games and similar platformers use a button to run. Third-person open world games, platformers such as Rayman, first person shooters. I don't really get that aspect of your complaint. How is that antiquated when it's the norm for most games today?

When the first 3D Mario game was released (Mario 64), it used the analog to control speed exclusively instead of using a button to run, like previous games. The more you push the analog, the faster you run. Sunshine did the same. Galaxy did the same. It felt more natural, that's why they used it that way.

I felt like in 3D World they went back to SMB style of controlling the speed, which is better for 2D and a D-Pad but feels antiquated to me in 3D with an analog.

Sure, other 3D games have a sprint button. Which is used for additional speed. But this additional speed is usually instant fastest speed you can get (in 3D World you still need some time until you reach the "boost" speed). And most of the time it comes with disadvantages like stamina drain, or you can't use your weapons while you run, and things like that. It's used differently than "simply run faster" so it makes sense having it as a separate "ability". Because you don't want to use it all the time.

Maybe if the run button was the "boost" button instead (the speed you reach after the poof of smoke), it would feel better to me. But as it is now, you need to have the button pressed 99% of the time since pushing the analog all the way never gives enough speed for anything.

 

[theaface]

It gets much better the further into the game you get and the challenge increases. For seasoned gamers I think the genius and challenge in modern Mario games lies in getting all stage collectibles and the post game content.

But yeah, 3D World is brilliant.

 

[Smasher89]

The game was hyped up for its multiplayer, and while good, there is one part it could have taken from four swords adventures, stats from who "won" the most stages and basicly crown a winner of the game after a full playthrough, such a small thing would make this soo much better!


Still the best mario game since galaxy 2, better in some ways, worse in some, I liked the sillyness of the game not taking itself that serious even though it had some hard stuff in it!

Should get back to beat the 2 absolute last worlds with all the characters, almost 100%ed with beating all stages with all characters (had help of a friend for a day helped alot).
That said, its hard and I probably need to play thorough the game again to get warmed up enouigh for those final ones

 

[nkarafo]

I know what he meant. But the bulk of 3DW levels are the same way: they're hills, mansions, snowy plains, deserts, volcanoes, train cars, and so forth. It wasn't just a maze of abstract geometric shapes. I think Galaxy was the more abstract of the two location-wise; more of the levels were generically spacey.

The punchline is that the most abstract levels in 3DW were the post-Bowser ones, which are themed after Galaxy.

Maybe "themes" was not the right word. My argument was mostly about the level design. Most of the levels in 3D World are made out of cubes. There are also too many 90 degree corners. It feels like the worlds are constructed by legos or something. Looks too artificial, never natural.

I felt this way with Galaxy games too, to a point. But 3DWorld took it even further.

I personally prefer a 3D world to look a bit more natural, like a proper place. Sunshine was the best in this IMO. And Mario 64 wasn't bad either despite the limitations of the hardware.

 

[eXistor]

I'm also inclined to say it's the best 3D Mario, but it's also a vastly different beast from most other 3D Mario's and it's almost unfair to compare them. It's really a 2D Mario that takes place in 3D environments. Everything alludes to this from the controls (run button for example) to the camera (isometric) and the level-design itself (linear).

I think it's absolutely wonderful, but I feel its detractors might not understand what the game is going for, this is not a sequel to Mario 64/Sunshine or even Galaxy1/2, this is a sequel to Mario 3.

 

[McBradders]

I couldn't do it. Bane of my existence.

Shit is hard and the coin placement is straight up hateful.

 

[Kingpin Rogers]

I found the game to be a boring slog for 90% of my playtime. I don't understand the praise it gets.

 

[Aldric]

I think it's absolutely wonderful, but I feel its detractors might not understand what the game is going for

l understand what it was going for, l think it didn't do it well. l'm not even opposed to the idea of merging the two styles, l enjoyed 3D Land for what it was. At least in this game you press the run button and you immediately reach max speed, no need to run in circles like a moron for an arbitrary amount of time until the game decides to give you another boost. lt was also a better fit to the system it was released on, using stereoscopic 3D to do some clever things with level design that wasn't done before in a 3D Mario, such as these top down levels where you had to fall into far away platforms. And the final Bowser battle was brilliant, unlike 3D World's which was all style and no substance.

 

[AgeEighty]

Maybe "themes" was not the right word. My argument was mostly about the level design. Most of the levels in 3D World are made out of cubes. There are also too many 90 degree corners. It feels like the worlds are constructed by legos or something. Looks too artificial, never natural.

I felt this way with Galaxy games too, to a point. But 3DWorld took it even further.

I personally prefer a 3D world to look a bit more natural, like a proper place. Sunshine was the best in this IMO. And Mario 64 wasn't bad either despite the limitations of the hardware.

Mario 64 actually had a lot less variation than 3D World did. There were only 15 stages that got recycled six times each with minor variations. And across those stages were threaded less cohesive themes, I felt.

I don't know, I just never felt like sharp corners in 3DW were as important as the sheer breadth of ideas the game had for its levels; it really put every other 3D Mario game to shame in that regard. And the platforming itself was, I felt, far better executed than they'd managed in a very long time.

 

[Theosmeo]

The final few worlds are what really shined for me, the beginning left me kinda bored though. Champion's road was the best part!

 

[Double Donut]

3D World is the reason I bought a Wii U. One of the most magical gaming experiences I've ever had. It's got a special place in my heart.

 

[Biocoincoin]

3D World is terrific ! Multiplayer is tons of fun too: it takes the game in another direction and reveals more excellent design choices from nintendo. Don't miss that !

 

[nkarafo]

Mario 64 actually had a lot less variation than 3D World did. There were only 15 stages that got recycled six times each with minor variations. And across those stages were threaded less cohesive themes, I felt.

Mario 64 had much more natural looking levels though. The desert level for instance felt like a proper place and the Pyramid itself looked great and complex enough. Same with many other levels, the first level felt like a place, the Mansion felt like a place, etc. The actual hub castle felt like a real place to explore with secret passages and a sense of mystery around it.

It wasn't just cubes floating. Sure, the Bowser levels were somewhat like the ones in 3DWorld. But most of the game had explorable areas that had a sense of place and didn't feel artificial.

 

[Poona]

This is my least favourite 3D Mario. It was 2D gameplay on a 3D plane, and I couldn't even explore as I was getting told to get out of the level asap due to the timer.

64, Sunshine, and both galaxy games I prefer over this. Glad that odyssey isn't giving us 2d gameplay again.

 

[KHlover]

Multiplayer Mario > Singleplayer Mario. 3D World might just be my favorite Mario ever, other contender being NSMBU.

Odyssee being Singleplayer was a pretty big disappointment to me, hope it'll end up more like 64 and Galaxy than Sunshine in terms of quality.

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

Have you completed Champion's Road?
Co-op is hilarious.
The maps are wildly different from each other and the gimmicks don't stay too long to get old.
It's also just 300MB.

Don't lie. it's 1.7GB.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

The best 3D platformer by miles. Loved every second of it.

 

[Krooner]

Talk about another game that gets over hated.

More than that - the entire series. People go on about it being deliriously over-saturated, They've done 4 games in 11 years... Five if you count Luigi U. Yet everyone goes on as if it's Assassin's Creed.

 

[MadJackChurchill]

Don't lie. it's 1.7GB.

Misremembered. Still incredible.

 

[11037]

Best 3d platformer every made

Yep, Super Mario 3D World is fantastic.

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

Misremembered. Still incredible.

Especially when games were released at the same time that were literally 50 TIMES bigger.

 

[Alastor3]

I HAAAATTTEEE Mario 3D Land because the levels are sooo short and it just feel disconnected.... How is 3D world about level length?

 

[timetokill]

But I'm glad Nintendo is FINALLY (or so it seems) giving us a proper 3D Mario again.

This is the worst meme on GAF

 

[Elixist]

best wii u game. wouldve loved an expansion pack.

 

[higgsboson1997]

Completely agree.

It's my favourite game ever.

 

[hotcyder]

Is it really better than Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie? I've been seriously debating picking it up for a very long time now, and like the OP, I just couldn't get all that into the Galaxy games.

Depends what metrics you want to compare the titles against, and which are more important to your enjoyment of a 3D platformer;

I prefer 3DW overall just because - by the virtue of being designed around obstacle courses than sandboxes - they could present a number of ideas per level, rapidly iterate on them, and swap them out in the next level. 64's levels are at least free-form and let you choose your objectives, but as a result their design is a lot more safe - either revolving around a mountain, a body of water, a flat maze, or whatever rainbow ride is meant to be. (I should also keep in mind that the 64s hardware probably prohibited a design ethos like 3DW, so they adopted the sandbox nature to capitalise on that)

That being said, 64's control scheme is a lot more fully featured (though I never felt in 3DW that it would of benefited from 64's control scheme as the levels were designed around a simple control scheme) - and the fact that it's structured in a way that the surprises are doled out as you explore the castle, rather than 3DW where it's like chocolates on a conveyor belt.

Banjo Kazooie does have good Metroid vibes in terms of using unlocked abilities to be able to explore more of the game, and overall benefits from being released 2 years after Mario - levels with more defined theme, with appropriate enemies and audio.

Banjo Tooie and Donkey Kong took the abilities as keys thing a little too far though - playing a trumpet, shooting a feather, pounding the ground all just to push a button. Tooie could of benefited from tighter level design too (even if the size is certainly a selling point).

IMO.

 

[nkarafo]

Is it really better than Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie? I've been seriously debating picking it up for a very long time now, and like the OP, I just couldn't get all that into the Galaxy games.

What did you like about Mario 64 and B-K?

If you liked the freedom of movement and exploration, you won't like 3DWorld.

If you liked the Bowser stages in Mario 64, you will like it. 3DWorld is like that but with a more limited camera and controls.

 

[Jacknapes]

One of the best WiiU games i've played in it's lifetime.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

l don't think you understand what he meant by sense of place.

Galaxy had a far greater sense of place for a few reasons: first it had a hub, that evolved throughout the game and felt alive. There was Rosalina's backstory you could stumble across by visiting a library. Even the levels themselves, albeit abstract and sometimes absurd (toilet bowl beach) felt more like actual places, thanks to NPCs inhabiting them, more natural looking formations (waterfalls, grottos, underground lakes, ice mountains etc) and simply better contextualization: you're supposed to be on a space adventure so it makes sense for you to jump from planetoids to planetoids.

3D World was purely functional design. Some people like it but to me it made it feel soulless and factory made.

This is my "beef" with 3DWorld as well.
It feels just like a collection of "levels to beat".

The first Galaxy game gave me some context, and I prefer that.

 

[Greatest Ever]

Most overrated Nintendo game of all time. Stiff controls and animations, dumbed down acrobatics, terrible speed boost system, bad camera that doesn't have Land's stereoscopic 3d crutch, almost nonexistent exploration with boring optional collectibles obtained by completing gameplay scenarios taken straight from the NSMB series, and for all the praise it gets for being "precision platforming" perfection, simplistic level design with far more filler and gimmicks than people admit (walk all over flipswitch panels in dark rooms for 3 minutes, chase after rabbits on large flat terrain, collect five trinklets on a tiny slice of beach level etc).

lt's supposed to be the best of both worlds, 3D exploration based platformers and 2D sidescrollers but it's actually the complete opposite. lt's not focused and precise enough to compete with the best 2D sidescrollers (if you think anything in 3D World is as good as Tropical Freeze's Bopopolis you're wrong) and it's not expansive or intrinsically fun to control enough to appeal to fans of more traditional 3D platformers. lt's a 3D Mario game for people who hate 3D Mario games.

l'm glad the next Mario is a completely different style and if Nintendo wants to go back to a more linear level progression l hope they'll make Galaxy 3 instead of 3D World 2.

lt had cool music though l'll give it that.

Perfect post. Game leaves me with nothing but sheer apathy.

I HAAAATTTEEE Mario 3D Land because the levels are sooo short and it just feel disconnected.... How is 3D world about level length?

Pretty much the exact same. The level length, even later on, is so short barely anything sticks.

 

[Sapiens]

It's plenty fun, but SM3DLand was better.

 

[phant0m]

I like 3D World but I enjoyed 3D Land more.

Im excited for return to form in Odyssey.

3D World and Land were great for their time... but I'm ready to move on to something grand.

Same.

 

[Raw64life]

Fantastic game that belongs right up there with the other 3D Marios. I remember the hate it got when it was first revealed and then massive amounts of crow were served after the game launched.

 

[phanphare]

And the graphics. Oh my! I realize it's not the technical juggernaut of say, an Uncharted 4 or Final Fantasy XV, but yet, I finding myself more impressed with the visuals of SM3DW than the both of those games. A lot more so. I don't know why. I do know that Nintendo nailed—completely nailed—the essence of Mario with the art style.

good art and good animations at a locked 60fps with no dips trumps pretty much any graphical "pretties" or whatever for me

video games are a medium in motion and for me personally no one does it better

glad you're liking the game, it's really great. my only complaint is that it's almost a little too ADD with its levels but the replayability is off the charts.

 

[entremet]

Super Mario 3D World is great but I couldn't be happier EPD Tokyo is moving on from this style of Mario game.

I love that style of game, but it's been four of those game straight (yes Galaxy games are course based as Nintendo mentioned themselves lol)

Sunshine was in 2002. Jeez.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

I prefer all of the other 3D Mario games to 3D World. I'll probably return to it at some point but I didn't care for it at all. Even multiplayer left me cold.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Lol World 3....


.... Keep playing 😃

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Don't know if I've ever been more consistently impressed with a game's design than with this one. Even throughout the "post-game" it kept throwing ew things at us (played with one other person all the way through).

 

[ScOULaris]

Game is incredibly easy and dull as a result. Co-op was a bad idea and poorly implemented.

It wasn't anywhere near the Galaxy games.

All of this 1000%.

3D World is a solid game, but it's braindead difficulty and snoozefest aesthetics and level design put it waaaay below the other 3D Mario games. Hell, I'd even put Sunshine over it. As a matter of fact, I'd put 3D Land over it too.

Galaxy 1 and 2 still shit on 3D World from a great height IMO.

 

[Pyrokai]

I liked 3D Land better, but 3D World was also fun : )