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LTTP || Zelda: Skyward Sword || and my vacation from the evil HD consoles [SPOILERS]

mantidor

Member
It actually isn't true 1:1, but I get what you're saying.

This just makes me want to say once again that I hope the next Zelda implements full 1:1 motion swordplay.

How is it not 1:1? the sword did exactly what I did, or am I missing something? are you talking about rotation, maybe? hmm...

And actually I wouldn't mind the sword going back to be a button, while I could manage to enjoy it, the thing is that sword play is really not that easy, I used to think that using the sword slashes with only eight directions was "too simple", but that thing is hard! Zelda is not about the sword anyway, motion plus added a lot to all the other items except the sword.

I mean, unless the get the perfect A.I. to fool anyone into believing they are master swordmans, but I doubt that is possible without reducing it to "waggle" like TP.
 

The Hermit

Member
This is one of the most bipolar games I've ever played. One minute I could be playing and saying to myself, "This is easily the best Zelda game ever," and the next I'm going, "What the fuck were you thinking, Nintendo?" This happens so often.

That was one of the most common opinion on the OT... It really is mind boggling.

I really enjoyed the gameplay, but I have the constant feeling that this game could be sooo much more.

That rumor of endless post-endgame content didn't help either...
 
How is it not 1:1? the sword did exactly what I did, or am I missing something? are you talking about rotation, maybe? hmm...

And actually I wouldn't mind the sword going back to be a button, while I could manage to enjoy it, the thing is that sword play is really not that easy, I used to think that using the sword slashes with only eight directions was "too simple", but that thing is hard! Zelda is not about the sword anyway, motion plus added a lot to all the other items except the sword.

I mean, unless the get the perfect A.I. to fool anyone into believing they are master swordmans, but I doubt that is possible without reducing it to "waggle" like TP.

This is exactly why it isn't true 1:1. It is when you are just moving the sword around, but as soon as it detects a swing it snaps it to a preset slash animation. Not that this is a terrible thing, but it does bother me a bit. It creates a dissonance with the timing of the slash on screen and what they player is actually doing. Because of this, one major benefit of 1:1 is that they can avoid accidental sword swings by giving the player full control.

For example, Zelda Battle Quest on Nintendo Land uses 1:1 motion control. There is no snapping the slashes. It's all very smooth, and the swordplay looks fantastic.

I just hope that if they go with motion for the next Zelda it's more like Battle Quest's swordplay.
 

ASIS

Member
This is exactly why it isn't true 1:1. It is when you are just moving the sword around, but as soon as it detects a swing it snaps it to a preset slash animation. Not that this is a terrible thing, but it does bother me a bit. It creates a dissonance with the timing of the slash on screen and what they player is actually doing. Because of this, one major benefit of 1:1 is that they can avoid accidental sword swings by giving the player full control.

For example, Zelda Battle Quest on Nintendo Land uses 1:1 motion control. There is no snapping the slashes. It's all very smooth, and the swordplay looks fantastic.

I just hope that if they go with motion for the next Zelda it's more like Battle Quest's swordplay.

Are they using the same methods as Wii sports? If so then its not going to work, controls aren't advanced enough for a game like zelda to do this.
 
BEST

BOSS

ARENA

EVER!!

Almost...

GZLE01-316.png
 

gillFTR

Member
I consider myself a zelda fan but after tp with the wii I promised to myself I wouldnt play skyward sword after it was anounced motion plus only.
 

DjRoomba

Banned
People that dislike this game, are dissapointed, or dont think this is one of the best zeldas are blinded by nostalgia or aging curmudgeons who haw forgotten what it is to have fun. This is, in my opinion, one of the best games Nintendo has ever developed. Like seriously, what sane person could look at Ocarina of time and this game and say Ocarina is better?? You would have to be retard like my brother Billo
 
People that dislike this game, are dissapointed, or dont think this is one of the best zeldas are blinded by nostalgia or aging curmudgeons who haw forgotten what it is to have fun. This is, in my opinion, one of the best games Nintendo has ever developed. Like seriously, what sane person could look at Ocarina of time and this game and say Ocarina is better?? You would have to be retard like my brother Billo

Well, I really like Skyward Sword, and it's in my top 5 Zelda rank...

But I also think Ocarina has better pace and, for the most part, better dungeons (definitely more challenging and less linear). I hope I'm not retarded.
 
People that dislike this game, are dissapointed, or dont think this is one of the best zeldas are blinded by nostalgia or aging curmudgeons who haw forgotten what it is to have fun. This is, in my opinion, one of the best games Nintendo has ever developed. Like seriously, what sane person could look at Ocarina of time and this game and say Ocarina is better?? You would have to be retard like my brother Billo
The kind of person who doesnt like being treated like a moron, stupid padding, and an even worse sidekick than Navi? Probably those people.

The nostalgia argument, like the Zelda cycle argument, is just weak ass dribble spewed by people who only want to hear what they want to hear.
 

ronito

Member
People that dislike this game, are dissapointed, or dont think this is one of the best zeldas are blinded by nostalgia or aging curmudgeons who haw forgotten what it is to have fun. This is, in my opinion, one of the best games Nintendo has ever developed. Like seriously, what sane person could look at Ocarina of time and this game and say Ocarina is better?? You would have to be retard like my brother Billo

I hate this kind of thinking.

People lay out valid issues with the game and are met with
"You just don't understand it!"

No. I get it. I think it's poorly done.

And honestly, better than Ocarina of Time? Even if you fixed the controls this is nowhere close to that.
 

Taruranto

Member
People that dislike this game, are dissapointed, or dont think this is one of the best zeldas are blinded by nostalgia or aging curmudgeons who haw forgotten what it is to have fun. This is, in my opinion, one of the best games Nintendo has ever developed. Like seriously, what sane person could look at Ocarina of time and this game and say Ocarina is better?? You would have to be retard like my brother Billo

I would have liked the game if it wasn't so damn dispersive! I mean, would have killed them to insert some kind of hand-holding to help the player? Does Nintendo think i have a brain or something!?
 
This is my favorite Nintendo game this generation (yes, even beating Galaxy 2, DKCR and Prime 3, all masterpieces), my favorite Zelda, and probably my third favorite Nintendo game of all time after Prime 2 and DKC.

The Zelda formula just seems to be near perfected in this game, while somehow still seeming more fresh than Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Yes, there are many that wish Zelda to go in a more "hardcore", exploration based direction, but I'm taking Zelda for what it really has been since LttP and Ocarina.

It's a real shame to me that many couldn't get into this game because of the controls. Unlike many of the lovers of this game, I won't demonize you at all for that, though, because my weird TV setup made the controls in this game a bit painful sometimes too. I still loved the controls when they worked out, but I really do feel that if somehow the remote controls were removed and just the game design remained (despite much of it depending on that controller), it would be more widely considered the best Zelda, except maybe in the minds of Zelda II and Majora's Mask fans.
 

Red

Member
Seeing this thread bumped reminds me how much I enjoyed SS. It had its fair share of problems, but it was a blast to play.

I have been trying to get back into traditional console gaming over the past week or so, after not having picked up a gamepad since last year. It's tough. I know a lot of you guys are 'in' there, surrounded by a world where a traditional controller feels right to you, so it will be tough for you to understand. But the M+ controls in SS are so good that they feel like an actual, natural extension of yourself as a gaming platform.

I know there are many who disagree, and I can't fault you for it. But i wish you could see things from my side.
 

Ysiadmihi

Banned
I often find myself wishing I had the level of control over my weapons in Dark Souls that SS gives you over your sword. It's a shame so many people couldn't get comfortable with the controls (or in many cases, weren't willing to give them a chance because of "teh waggle") because once you have mastered them, they turn the game into an experience like no other. I have no doubt the next Zelda will be a good game, but it just won't be as fun for me if they completely scrap the option to use a Wiimote+nunchuck.
 

Red

Member
I often find myself wishing I had the level of control over my weapons in Dark Souls that SS gives you over your sword. It's a shame so many people couldn't get comfortable with the controls (or in many cases, weren't willing to give them a chance because of "teh waggle") because once you have mastered them, they turn the game into an experience like no other. I have no doubt the next Zelda will be a good game, but it just won't be as fun for me if they completely scrap the option to use a Wiimote+nunchuck.
Dark Souls is exactly the game I was thinking of when I made my last post :p

I try playing that game now after a long hiatus and it's like holding an alien rubik's cube in my hands. I don't know what the buttons do or how they are affected by situational differences. I'm wrestling with technology i don't understand.

With SS, i pick up the wiimote and it does what i want it to do. Simple, intuitive. I move, it moves.

The argument, I guess, then becomes: but Crunched, you just don't understand the controls, they will come to you in time. That's fine, and I don't disagree. But with SS's M+, I don't need to 'relearn' anything. It's just there. As soon as I pick it up, it makes sense.
 

Lachie007

Member
I hate this kind of thinking.

People lay out valid issues with the game and are met with
"You just don't understand it!"

No. I get it. I think it's poorly done.

And honestly, better than Ocarina of Time? Even if you fixed the controls this is nowhere close to that.

I dunno. The controls were so good i can't help it think your taking the piss
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Hopefully the kind of relationship Link and Zelda has in this game can be portrayed in equal measure, or preferably even better, in future Zelda games.

Hopefully future Zelda games do not limit their relationship just as "Lol go there Link lol I am in trouble help me please" "Yes, my princess. Yes my princess. Yes my princess."

Oh, and I just simply don't understand the amount of difficulty people seem to have with the controls when they are saying stuff like "unplayable." Yes minor hiccup happens, yes sometimes there are problems here and there, but to deem it as "unplayable" is just a huge exaggeration in my opinion. The controls are fine, and I applaud Nintendo for being brave enough to implement such a daring control scheme to one of its main flagship titles (not many company would be willing to take such a risk, I think)
 

Lachie007

Member
I wish i could play it now! I kinda wish it came out a lot earlier in the wii's life though. Maybe more people would be more willing to give the controls a fair shake.
 

ronito

Member
So I finished it this weekend.

A few last thoughts:

- My wiimote had a really difficult time registering the downward strike and a sword thrust. And I had multiple people try it out and they have the same problems. This made the fights against the first 3 forms of demise especially painful as I'd go through and get him all set up to hit the spike only to have Link keep doing weird strikes. It also make the last fight against Girahim really difficult.

- the final version of demise was the second most bad-ass form of Gannon I've seen. First being the wind waker. Also the last fight was really fun.

- even if the controls were not an issue there was just WAY too much filler. This took me about twice the time as the previous iterations and more than double on Link to the Past and I did the whole thing with just two bottles and I didn't particularly go out of my way to do any sidequests. Whereas in most of the prior iterations I did and still clocked in well beneath this play time.

- The filler gave way to pacing issues. The last hour of the game was fantastic. Running down to Girahim while you're swarmed by enemies then on to the girahim fight and then onto Demise it was just brilliant. But before that there was a serious lull in the latter half of the game.
"Get the three flames!"
"Cool!"
"But to do that you have to do these challenges first."
"Uh, ok."
"Ok now go and get the flame!"
"Alright!"
"But wait you can't get to the flame yet you need to <set something right> first!."
"ugg...ok."
<3 challenges, fetch quests, dungeons later>
"You got the three flames!"
"Yes! Let's fight!"
"Now you need the song back to the thunder head!"
"Alright!"
"But wait first you have to do this bird challenge."
"sigh ok."
"Now you're ready! Go find the wind spirit!"
"finally"
"Oh you want the song? I only know a fourth of it. Go back and talk to the dragons."
"Seriously?"
"Oh you want my part of the song? First you have to gather some notes for me."
"fuckall are you going to let me fight this guy or not?!!!"

- I did have a lot of fun with it, but I think the biggest issue with it isn't even the controls. It's the filler/pacing. A good entry to the series but a flawed one too.
 
I loved Skyward Sword. I thought it had some of the coolest Zelda temples in a Zelda series. The only thing I didn't like was the first 3 hours and the last boss.
 

mantidor

Member
- I did have a lot of fun with it, but I think the biggest issue with it isn't even the controls. It's the filler/pacing. A good entry to the series but a flawed one too.

I enjoyed the filler but I can see why many didn't like it.

I think that this is simply the idea Nintendo has of a "big" game, which is apparently what they set out to do, probably to please fans. But most expect something a la skyrim so of course they are going to be dissapointed.

But this is what Zelda is, quirky things, interacting, exploring, collecting. I personally liked a lot the idea of having only three areas that are enormous and you get to discover little by little. But I do agree the collecthatons could have been handled better.
 
I don't think of these things as "filler" while playing through the game, so it always feels weird to read about it afterwards.
What about having to collect the water by going all the way back to Skyview Temple, or collecting water with the robot to get into the Fire Sanctuary by going up Eldin Volcano?
I liked the game but there was so many parts where I thought: "Nintendo, do you really expect me to go up there again?" The game was COLLECT, COLLECT, COLLECT.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
What about having to collect the water by going all the way back to Skyview Temple, or collecting water with the robot to get into the Fire Sanctuary by going up Eldin Volcano?
I liked the game but there was so many parts where I thought: "Nintendo, do you really expect me to go up there again?" The game was COLLECT, COLLECT, COLLECT.

The two you mentioned were the only real annoying in the moments for me (retrieving the water from the first temple was bullshit of the highest order). But stuff like the Silent Realm challenges or the Tadtones or even the actual escort up Eldin itself never felt like filler to me. I enjoyed them all.
 
I really like this game. It's not as good as OOT and MM, but a damn sight better than TWW and TP. I have some issues with it, but I honestly really enjoyed it.

I really wish Hero Mode was always available to you. Makes the game that much more fun I think to have to actually think about resource management every once in a while.
 

atbigelow

Member
Folks playing with a hacked Wii, rejoice: there are plenty of Ocarina cheats around to fix some of the annoying interface issues the game has. You can:

-Disable random Fi notifications.
-Change text speed to instant (wigs out on a few cutscenes but works fine most of the time)
-Remove widescreen cinema bars.
-Disable item collection notifications.

There's some other stuff I can't remember, but it makes the game feel so much better without it stopping every couple of minutes to bother you.
 
Have these dungeon architectural analysis been posted on GAF? These are pretty old but Robert of zeldadungeon had written a series of articles based on the designs and themes of SS. It really gave me a new found appreciation for the game, and after reading something like this, it's a little disheartening to see people call this game "terrible" or that the series is dead to them.
 

Hiltz

Member
The two you mentioned were the only real annoying in the moments for me (retrieving the water from the first temple was bullshit of the highest order). But stuff like the Silent Realm challenges or the Tadtones or even the actual escort up Eldin itself never felt like filler to me. I enjoyed them all.

I pretty much agree with you. The tadtone fetch quest wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be and I wasn't bothered by some of the other things. I liked the silent realm quests even though I recall losing twice on the first one and almost lost the last one. Once I decide to do a second play through, I'll use those cheats to make the overall experience a bit better.
 
What about having to collect the water by going all the way back to Skyview Temple, or collecting water with the robot to get into the Fire Sanctuary by going up Eldin Volcano?
I liked the game but there was so many parts where I thought: "Nintendo, do you really expect me to go up there again?" The game was COLLECT, COLLECT, COLLECT.

Required hindsight as well. I don't think in those terms.

Have these dungeon architectural analysis been posted on GAF? These are pretty old but Robert of zeldadungeon had written a series of articles based on the designs and themes of SS. It really gave me a new found appreciation for the game, and after reading something like this, it's a little disheartening to see people call this game "terrible" or that the series is dead to them.

Mindblowing stuff there.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Have these dungeon architectural analysis been posted on GAF? These are pretty old but Robert of zeldadungeon had written a series of articles based on the designs and themes of SS. It really gave me a new found appreciation for the game, and after reading something like this, it's a little disheartening to see people call this game "terrible" or that the series is dead to them.

This is amazing
 

Hiltz

Member
Yeah, that article just blew my mind. I recall there was another article that kind of explained the origins of Zelda's mythos too.
 

apana

Member
I can see why some people didn't like Skyward Sword, in the sense that it is not the direction most people want to see the series go in, but I really enjoyed it. The game was all about Zelda gameplay, meaning streamlined dungeons and motion controls. It had the best gameplay and mechanics out of any of the Zelda games. If you are looking for reasons to be critical you can be but if you actually want to play and appreciate it for what it is you will recognize this is another excellent entry into the Zelda franchise.
 

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
Have these dungeon architectural analysis been posted on GAF? These are pretty old but Robert of zeldadungeon had written a series of articles based on the designs and themes of SS. It really gave me a new found appreciation for the game, and after reading something like this, it's a little disheartening to see people call this game "terrible" or that the series is dead to them.

I knew about most of this stuff but it's always a great read. Thanks for posting
 

DrLazy

Member
I got it as a gift. After spending what felt like two hours of wandering around town I finally quit when I got to the flying bird section.

In old Zelda they gave you a sword and started the gameplay. Taking 2 hours of story and tutorial is ridiculous. I gave up on it.
 

Lachie007

Member
How the hell it did it take 2 hours to get the sword.

Because of this thread ive gone back to this game. (screw resi 6) Going through the hero mode.

Love it
 

Red

Member
I got it as a gift. After spending what felt like two hours of wandering around town I finally quit when I got to the flying bird section.

In old Zelda they gave you a sword and started the gameplay. Taking 2 hours of story and tutorial is ridiculous. I gave up on it.
'Old Zelda'? Everything since OoT has had at least a brief tutorial. Twilight Princess had an even longer intro than this. Even some of the 2D games have some time before you get a sword in your hands. It's really only 1-3 with pretty quick grab-and-go gameplay.

Unless that's what you're talking about? I don't think Skyward Sword is a shift to 'new Zelda' outside of the controls.

I do agree about the filler and pacing issues, ronito. I'm in the opposite camp for controls, but I got bugged a lot by the uninteresting 'colllect some things' gameplay. Fi was anothee big problem. I don't think she ruined the game, but she sure liked to talk.
 

sphinx

the piano man
'Old Zelda'? Everything since OoT has had at least a brief tutorial. Twilight Princess had an even longer intro than this. Even some of the 2D games have some time before you get a sword in your hands. It's really only 1-3 with pretty quick grab-and-go gameplay.

Unless that's what you're talking about? I don't think Skyward Sword is a shift to 'new Zelda' outside of the controls.

I do agree about the filler and pacing issues, ronito. I'm in the opposite camp for controls, but I got bugged a lot by the uninteresting 'colllect some things' gameplay. Fi was anothee big problem. I don't think she ruined the game, but she sure liked to talk.

the tutorials in every 3D zelda game are all annoying, out of the 5 games we've got the only one that got it slightly better was ocarina of time because it quickly gets you in a temple (deku tree) and the tutorial feeling is quickly over.

that being said, I still have to compare SS, WW, and MM "tutorial" parts to TP, which I am playing right now and it went pretty fast.

After subsequent playthroughs I am not as sure that the TP first 2 hours are the worst in a zelda game...
 

leroidys

Member
I can see why some people didn't like Skyward Sword, in the sense that it is not the direction most people want to see the series go in, but I really enjoyed it. The game was all about Zelda gameplay, meaning streamlined dungeons and motion controls. It had the best gameplay and mechanics out of any of the Zelda games. If you are looking for reasons to be critical you can be but if you actually want to play and appreciate it for what it is you will recognize this is another excellent entry into the Zelda franchise.

I don't think its simply a matter of chilling out and realizing how good the game is. There are myriad legitimate complaints and design flaws. This isn't to say that it is impossible for many to love the game and get enjoyment out of it, but it is not so clear cut.

I am kind of surprised by all the praise for the dungeons, especially coming after the absolutely phenomenal dungeon design in TP. The dungeons in SS aren't terrible, but they clearly show the teams roots in making handheld zelda games. There was poor sense of scale and verticality in most temples (the biggest exception being the water temple). It reminded me very much of Minish Cap, where you just run from one room to the next, and if you're ever faced with a puzzle, the solution is immediately obvious and its just a matter of fighting the inconsistent controls to advance.

The bosses were altogether quite good, but not the series best. And then, for me, everything that happened outside of the dungeons was pretty garbage. Boring, dead environments with very sparse secrets that you had to backtrack across again and again collecting things. Rarely were there other characters to interact with (outside of the one town), or substantial sidequests to pursue.

I also think that the game has the worst story in a console Zelda. Outside of the beginning when you're chasing Zelda around, it just never felt that epic or important. Compared to saving the world from darkness in LttP or TP, it just felt very inconsequential, due in no small part to the way in which it was told.

Having said all that, I don't hate the game. It's just not a great Zelda for me, and ranks down there with portable entries like Phantom Hourglass, Minish Cap, and Spirit Tracks. I feel like it owed too much to the portable tradition of the series, and not enough to its console heritage. They felt the need to overly streamline everything so that casuals could play without thinking, but they obscured this behind a difficult to learn (though admittedly awesome and worth the risk) control system. Sometimes I wish nintendo would just pick a slightly smaller audience for some of its games and fully concentrate on making that cohesive experience. Interviews seemed to lead on that this was some sort of refocusing of the series, but it seems muddier than ever to me, and for the first time ever, I don't have high hopes for future titles.
 

Oceanwind

Neo Member
I actually didn't have much trouble with the controls, but I still didn't like this game as much as the other 3D Zelda games. I think the biggest problem for me was that there were too many parts of the game that were just really boring.

I just got really bored when I had to go through the Skyview Temple again. I almost considered just stopping right then because the beginning of the game had been pretty boring for me up til then. I had only really enjoyed the first boss fight and Lanayru; everything else was pretty meh. I glad I didn't stop, though because the Ancient Cistern was amazing, and I also enjoyed the Sandsea and the Sandship

After that the game got boring for me again. I didn't like the escort mission or collecting Tadtones. The last dungeon and the sequence after that were pretty fun though.

I also didn't like Fi. Her design and theme music were the only good things about her in my opinion. Why does she need to tell you your health is low when you can see how many hearts you have left, Link is flashing red, and there is a beeping sound? Did they really think the player would somehow miss all of these signs?

Basically, for me this game went from being boring to amazing, then back to being boring, then amazing again. The highs were really great, fun, and memorable, but you have to slog through all of the boring stuff like tutorials, collecting Tadtones, fighting the Imprisoned three times. If you don't have a problem with any of these things, I can see why you would like this game so much. But for me, it just dragged down the whole experience too much. I don't think I'll ever replay Skyward Sword.
 

mantidor

Member
I am kind of surprised by all the praise for the dungeons, especially coming after the absolutely phenomenal dungeon design in TP. The dungeons in SS aren't terrible, but they clearly show the teams roots in making handheld zelda games. There was poor sense of scale and verticality in most temples (the biggest exception being the water temple). It reminded me very much of Minish Cap, where you just run from one room to the next, and if you're ever faced with a puzzle, the solution is immediately obvious and its just a matter of fighting the inconsistent controls to advance.

I don't see how that descrIptIon of the dungeons is any different than TP dungeons, which for me were bland compared to SS. Very few complain about the quality of the dungeons in the 2d games though, I've never heard them till now.

And dead environments and boring story? Specially compared to TP? What game were you playing?
 

DarkKyo

Member
This game had the perfect amount of length to it. Some tasks towards the end started to feel like busy work but I was okay with it because I didn't want the game to end.

All around amazing experience. Loved it.
 

kunonabi

Member
Well, I really like Skyward Sword, and it's in my top 5 Zelda rank...

But I also think Ocarina has better pace and, for the most part, better dungeons (definitely more challenging and less linear). I hope I'm not retarded.

What? Ocarina had some of the worst dungeon design in the entire franchise. I was a letdown by SS dungeons since I was expecting something along the lines of TP/ST quality but they were still far better than the crap OoT put out.
 

leroidys

Member
I don't see how that descrIptIon of the dungeons is any different than TP dungeons, which for me were bland compared to SS. Very few complain about the quality of the dungeons in the 2d games though, I've never heard them till now.

And dead environments and boring story? Specially compared to TP? What game were you playing?

You've never heard anyone complain about the dungeons in the DS games or Minish Cap? I am certainly not the first to bring this up.

Maybe bland is not the right word so much as "static". There just isn't a lot going on in many of the environments or reasons to explore them.

Note, I did NOT compare the overworld to TP, I compared the dungeons. I found the overworld in both games lacking, especially the cool looking but completely non-interactive Hyrule town and the bleak and boring Kakariko. Ugh. But at least in TP there was more to explore, and you weren't forced to retread areas nearly as much.
 
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