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LTTP || Zelda: Skyward Sword || and my vacation from the evil HD consoles [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter jetsetfluken
- Start date
The dungeons were fine no issue there. There might have been some annoyances but nothing like OoT's water temple (thank god).
I don't really get the complaints about dungeons. Overworld, yeah I get that. My main gripe is about filler.
Also that link about the architecture is really fascinating. I think he overreached a bit with the skeleton boss thing but otherwise really good.
I don't really get the complaints about dungeons. Overworld, yeah I get that. My main gripe is about filler.
Also that link about the architecture is really fascinating. I think he overreached a bit with the skeleton boss thing but otherwise really good.
Franchuzas87
Member
No way. Since OOT, it's hard to remember any 3D dungeon where you can have more than one key at the time. Dungeons such as Forest Temple or Water Temple required a good knowledge of the design, and even some backtracking. Almost none of that remains in modern Zeldas, where dungeons have good to great puzzles, but only one (and obvious) way to go (although TP has some notable exceptions).
I was one of the few who LOVED the tadpole quest, the music and graphics were so good during that part, it was annoying actually finding them but the atmosphere was fun and doing the dolphin flips.
I love the fact that I can play this game as lazily as possible, I can put the nunchuk over the edge of the sofa and my wiimote on the right of my lap and still control Link. The controls in this game are excellent.
I loved the adventure pouch customization (you can choose defense, "hacker", offense, minimal) I liked how seamless the game was, with real-time item changing and the quick save statues. Makes me want to keep playing.
I love the fact that I can play this game as lazily as possible, I can put the nunchuk over the edge of the sofa and my wiimote on the right of my lap and still control Link. The controls in this game are excellent.
I loved the adventure pouch customization (you can choose defense, "hacker", offense, minimal) I liked how seamless the game was, with real-time item changing and the quick save statues. Makes me want to keep playing.
Jailer of Hope
Member
Personally, I think TP is the pinnacle of dungeon design because it uses less keys and block pushing. Everything seems so much more natural from a mechanical and thematic stand point.
kunonabi
Member
It's still incredibly easy to figure out what you need to do next in OoT and the puzzles are all incredibly obvious. OoT are mostly designed around senseless backtracking and tedium. They aren't engaging at all as they every step is just a chore. It's similar to Dino Crisis where the simplest thing takes forever simply because of padding. Mindless busy work does not make for great dungeon design.
you lack a bit of time context.
water and forest temple back in the day where a NIGHTMARE to traverse the first time around, I know I (ME!!) got lost or clueless a couple of times in both.
Crescendo170
Member
I disliked the controls, though I suspect alot of it has to do with the latency on my tv. It's slightly noticable in other games, but with the added delay of motion-controls it just felt really disconnected and unsatisfying to play.
Yeah I really don't understand the freakout over the tadtones. I thought it was fun. The swimming controls aren't great, but that isn't unique to the tadtones.
You either need to pay more attention or get a better at remembering. Cause they're still there. Seriously, we need to look at these dungeons game to game and I think you'll see the things you mentioned have made their way into modern Zeldas. The final floors in The Temple of the Ocean King and the Spirit Track towers are crazy open, and non-linear.
SecretMoblin
Member
Yes, this is an important point.
And I really hope we're not conflating "nonlinearity" with "good game design"...
That whole area with the flooded woods was one of the most stunningly beautiful sections in a game Ive ever seen. The music is so relaxing and vibrant at the same time, and the underwater sound effects added to that too.
I really cant grasp how anyone could have hated that area, especially so vehemently as so many people seem to. Swimming controls were excellent too. Far better than in any other game Ive played.
Skyward Sword took exactly the opposite approach to dungeons compared to TP. Small, hub-based, clearly dungeons with no blurring the lines like we got with the mansion. Many of them are designed around a central room, which provides a consistent hook and focus for each stage, and helps to orient the player. And the art direction was just phenomenal, probably the series' best. It has some of my favorite dungeons in the series. Bosses were also great, and a nice contrast to TP's screen filling epics.
I am not fully taking into account the 'dungeonifying' of the overworld, and I've neglected the pirate ship in particular (which was one of my favorite areas of the game!)
One of the reasons I liked SS so much despite its flaws was it reminded me a lot of the older games, particularly Zeldas 1 and 3. I don't know if it was the art or the color choices or the tone or what, but those two games kept coming to mind (alongside the shadow of Minish Cap).
That said, it is pretty clear that the 'formula' for 3D Zeldas is getting a bit stale, and I'm hoping for another Majora's Mask-esque remix for the next game.
I am not fully taking into account the 'dungeonifying' of the overworld, and I've neglected the pirate ship in particular (which was one of my favorite areas of the game!)
One of the reasons I liked SS so much despite its flaws was it reminded me a lot of the older games, particularly Zeldas 1 and 3. I don't know if it was the art or the color choices or the tone or what, but those two games kept coming to mind (alongside the shadow of Minish Cap).
That said, it is pretty clear that the 'formula' for 3D Zeldas is getting a bit stale, and I'm hoping for another Majora's Mask-esque remix for the next game.
So you need to play Majora's Mask.
But yeah the tadpoles were ok, I could live without them though.
shadyspace
Banned
Gonna replay this on my Wii U hopefully before the end of the year.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
Skyward Sword would have been the best game ever if it were paced differently.
For example, instead of the dragon trials being mandatory to progress (and slowing everyone down) they should have been optional side quests that rewarded you with those awesome items. Obviously, some of the latter areas would have needed to be reworked so that these items weren't necessary, but nothing out of Nintendo's reach.
Twilight Princess suffered from similar problems. I remember an Iwata Asks pointing towards this being Miyamoto's fault; he doesn't like producing content certain players won't see, so by making it mandatory everyone sees it.
Imagine if all the side quests in Majora's Mask became mandatory story sequences. We'd all have pretty big issues with that as well.
For example, instead of the dragon trials being mandatory to progress (and slowing everyone down) they should have been optional side quests that rewarded you with those awesome items. Obviously, some of the latter areas would have needed to be reworked so that these items weren't necessary, but nothing out of Nintendo's reach.
Twilight Princess suffered from similar problems. I remember an Iwata Asks pointing towards this being Miyamoto's fault; he doesn't like producing content certain players won't see, so by making it mandatory everyone sees it.
Imagine if all the side quests in Majora's Mask became mandatory story sequences. We'd all have pretty big issues with that as well.
MaxwellGT2000
Member
I agree about a few details that could have been, I really loved this game though, so much that it actually became my favorite Zelda title, however I wouldn't rank it the best, if that makes any sense, basically I see this game as near perfect for what it was going for, but what it went for was almost as if designed specifically for me, stuff I love, but if I was to rate it for everyone it would be a 9.7 or so, higher than any of the other Zeldas, minus my former favorite, Link to the Past, which I would just give a perfect 10, I don't know how you could improve that game, I cannot fathom it, thus it's the one I could say is perfect in every way and something anyone could play.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Those poor robots 
especially the ones that knew their fates.
especially the ones that knew their fates.
Glad to hear the positive response.
I have SS sitting on my shelf and still haven't started it yet. Envy me!
I insist on finally finishing the 2nd quest of the first Zelda after all these years, and the very end of Spirit Tracks, before I can start SS. Then I'll have beaten every quest of every major entry (sorry, Oracle fans, but I can't get into those inferior Link's Awakening clones) and can start SS with a clean conscience.
Wii Sports Resort is honestly one of my favorite games this gen, so I am fully hyped but ready to be critical where necessary. I'd start another LTTP when I have a go, but fear it would become the slowest blog ever given my speed of play (most 3D Zeldas take me 2 years or more, due to saving them for just the right nights / conditions. This one should be faster, but that might mean 6 months min).
I have SS sitting on my shelf and still haven't started it yet. Envy me!
I insist on finally finishing the 2nd quest of the first Zelda after all these years, and the very end of Spirit Tracks, before I can start SS. Then I'll have beaten every quest of every major entry (sorry, Oracle fans, but I can't get into those inferior Link's Awakening clones) and can start SS with a clean conscience.
Wii Sports Resort is honestly one of my favorite games this gen, so I am fully hyped but ready to be critical where necessary. I'd start another LTTP when I have a go, but fear it would become the slowest blog ever given my speed of play (most 3D Zeldas take me 2 years or more, due to saving them for just the right nights / conditions. This one should be faster, but that might mean 6 months min).
Fantastic game. My favorite 3D Zelda for sure. It's the only one that halfway through I didn't get the urge to "just be done with it". I loved every minute of the game. It keeps throwing new stuff for you to do at every turn, just like Mario Galaxy. Really, only loses to A Link to the Past as far as Zeldas go.
The controls are great and hopefully here to stay. The main town was the best in any Zelda other than Clocktown from Majora's Mask. The dungeons are some of the best in the series. Special nod to Ancient Cistern, which is a brilliant, brilliant dungeon only matched by a few from Twilight Princess. The items are the best in the series by far. It's the first Zelda that actually encourages you to keep using all of your items until the very endv (seriously, even the slingshot keeps being useful!). The item upgrade system was very welcome. Sidequests were great. And so was the story and nods to other games in the series. Awesome boss battles as well. And the fact that they actually upped the difficulty this time. I died or got close to dying MANY times! That was a great surprise. And I haven't even tried hero mode yet!
Really, almost perfect game and contender for top 5 of the generation. My only real issue is that the sky overworld is too empty.
The controls are great and hopefully here to stay. The main town was the best in any Zelda other than Clocktown from Majora's Mask. The dungeons are some of the best in the series. Special nod to Ancient Cistern, which is a brilliant, brilliant dungeon only matched by a few from Twilight Princess. The items are the best in the series by far. It's the first Zelda that actually encourages you to keep using all of your items until the very endv (seriously, even the slingshot keeps being useful!). The item upgrade system was very welcome. Sidequests were great. And so was the story and nods to other games in the series. Awesome boss battles as well. And the fact that they actually upped the difficulty this time. I died or got close to dying MANY times! That was a great surprise. And I haven't even tried hero mode yet!
Really, almost perfect game and contender for top 5 of the generation. My only real issue is that the sky overworld is too empty.
Mato
Member
I love this game. My favorite game this gen and my favorite Zelda also. The art direction is stunning, most beautiful game ever. All the little novelties here and there where great too. If there's two things I would prefer different would be:
1:More procedural generation. This could work for anything, even simple things like grass placement and size, could add a sense of things not being static but ever changing.
2:The impression the overworld conveys. In all Zelda games the illusion of reality is broken once you reach the boundaries and then you know it's just black behind the polygonal sky. I don't know how but the should find some procedural way to deal with that.
1:More procedural generation. This could work for anything, even simple things like grass placement and size, could add a sense of things not being static but ever changing.
2:The impression the overworld conveys. In all Zelda games the illusion of reality is broken once you reach the boundaries and then you know it's just black behind the polygonal sky. I don't know how but the should find some procedural way to deal with that.
SecretMoblin
Member
Nooooooooo! They may be inferior to LA, but they're both great games in their own right.
Better than Minish Cap and Phantom Hourglass, in my opinion.
Okay, if / when they hit the eShop, I'll stop being stubborn.
grimshawish
Banned
Playing some more today. It irritates me how bad the first few dungeons in this are.
Since the lake dungeon I have been having a fucking BLAST!
On the ghost pirate ship (the millennium troupe of Zelda games it seems) atm; looking forward to continuing through.
Nothing has been dull or wrong since that Lake level. Its like an entirely different game.
Can't believe they screwed the beginning up so much.
Since the lake dungeon I have been having a fucking BLAST!
On the ghost pirate ship (the millennium troupe of Zelda games it seems) atm; looking forward to continuing through.
Nothing has been dull or wrong since that Lake level. Its like an entirely different game.
Can't believe they screwed the beginning up so much.
TheContact
Member
my copy is still shrink wrapped. haven't had time to play this yet. i really really should though. do you need to play with wiimote sensor or can you play with the classic controller?
I have said this a million times... there are a lot of great things in this game. The hand holding is absolutely out of control though. There is not one instance were the game actually lets you discover anything (played to about the third dungeon... after the ship part). I simply cannot play a game were the game constant feels the needs to remind me of my goal, mention obvious clues and just take control away just when I'm starting to have fun.
I recall someone posting their ideas for a next gen Zelda game... something that right after a brief introduction just trust you into the world without holding your hand from that point on (sounded a bit like dark Souls). That's what this series needs. Not more of this bull shit.
I recall someone posting their ideas for a next gen Zelda game... something that right after a brief introduction just trust you into the world without holding your hand from that point on (sounded a bit like dark Souls). That's what this series needs. Not more of this bull shit.
dragonbane
Member
Yup. The first half is just bad. I hated the game so much, because TP is one of my 3D favourites and I was hoping SS would be just as good. However, exactly starting with the lake dungeon, the game gets better and better. Once I reached the gate of time I had a blast.
Still, many annoyances remain, but the second half makes up for the most part. I think it's funny that even the music gets better after the lake temple. I didn't hate the music before that point, but it was pretty forgettable. Not many memorable tunes. But the second half suddenly has a ton of them.
Pretty weird overall. I really have the feeling two completely different teams made this game.
Seriously. Especially the dowsing. I'm not very good at remembering stuff, but every time I had to find something I knew instantly where it was. But Fi was like "No, there is 100% chance you are stupid. Would you like to dowse this object?" At least it was optional in most cases, I didn't use it whenever possible.Varna said:
But you really should finish it. It's a chore to get to the good parts, but people aren't lying about them. They are there and they are good.
Huh? But Lanayru Mining Facility is one of the best dungeons in the game... The whole desert area is good.
papersleeves
Member
Playing the game for the first time right now. So far so good. About to catch my bird!
Dion Blaster
Member
Loved the game but I need an interconnected world. I mean that's basically the essence of Zelda, exploring a world with secrets and enemies. The areas were very interesting but the way they were laid out cut down the exploration and adventure.
grimshawish
Banned
HATED the first desert instance, second is absolutely fine though so far - and very adventurous which am loving.
Didn't 'hate' the first time round, just found it rather repetitive. The story at that point had begun to annoy me (I really wish there was an option to play Zelda); and I found whilst the dungeon was a lot of fun - it was again a bit too laboured. I don't think the items were clicking with me.
But the Lake onwards (best dungeon in a Zelda game actually - I loved it) is pretty fantastic so far. But I really didn't enjoy the desert but did half-enjoy aspects to the dungeon. Although I was running through the same chamber constantly which was a bit boring.
One thing I love about the return to the desert is the carting sequence; its so throwaway, a lot of this part of the game is. Entire mechanics just thrown in. I suspect they'll be used later ofc, but its handled really well and the game feels more like an adventure than a series of levels designed around a new item.
grimshawish
Banned
Pirate ship music has been amazing.
I think that first dungeon is one of the worst in the series history and the music played a part in it too. Whats mostly disappointing is it was not Great Oak in the backyard, you worked to get to it and ugh! so terrible.
Wow. Skyward Sword is totally not my kind of game, and I couldn't penetrate it at all. It took the Zelda formula in a bunch of directions I did not like. But then, I am one of those who thinks Majora's Mask is the best of the 3D entries. The two games clearly share almost no design goals or ideals.
But glad to see there are people who love it so much. More power to you. One thing that modern entry haters need to always remember is that the old games still exist, and there will be other people (like the Souls creators) trying other things inspired by them.
But glad to see there are people who love it so much. More power to you. One thing that modern entry haters need to always remember is that the old games still exist, and there will be other people (like the Souls creators) trying other things inspired by them.
Same here. I feel a bit cheated after the whole thing. One of the Nintendo higher ups was making comparisons between the two. But yeah... these guys have no idea what made that particular game so special.
Reluctant-Hero
Member
Started this up this morning for the first time on my Wii U. I'm only an hour in,
, but I've really enjoyed what I've played so far. And colors, my god the colors. Nintendo, you glorious bastards.
Looking forward to digging deeper into this.
just rescued my crimson sky bird
Looking forward to digging deeper into this.
brandonh83
Banned
I really don't like Majora's opening at all. It gets better when you actually leave Clock Town though but all the secret boys club bullshit is boring.
Reluctant, how does the Wii U upscaling treat Skyward Sword? After looking at Twilight Princess this morning and definitely noticing a superior image quality, I may just buy a bunch of Wii games for now until some better Wii U games come around.
Muffdraul
Member
I played through Skyward Sword twice back to back. I kinda want to play it again, can't believe it's already been a year. But I'm going to try and hold out for the inevitable Wii U HD re-release. (I played some SMG on Wii U last night, and while it was indeed running at 1080p, it really didn't look much different.)
Last gen Zelda re-release, now with 2x more inevitability than Wind Waker Wii!
don't hold your breath
All the bosses in dungeons were great. The ones that I thought were awful were Demise and Ghirahim, which sucks because you have to fight them so many times.
Agree 100%
Bending_Unit_22
Member
Zelda is my favorite franchise and I enjoyed it until the second near final fetch quest. I did the tadtones mostly because it was stunningly beautiful to swim around the flooded forest zone. I forget what you have to collect for the mountain zone, I just recall getting to it and saying no, I'm out.
Muffdraul
Member
Oh, I'm holding it. There's no other reason they wouldn't have spec'd the Wii U to automatically upscale Wii games the same way the 360 and PS3 do with last gen games. Wii HD editions incoming.
There's no other reason for nintendo to have removed the GBA slot from the DSi then to sell GBA games on the eshop. GBA games for DSi incoming.
That's just not how nintendo operates man. Take it from a fellow nintendo fanboy. Rational expectation does not work with this company.
Muffdraul
Member
You make it sounds as if they've never done this sort of thing before. They've been doing tarted up re-releases of past-gen games for a long time. Everything from SNES and even NES stuff on the GBA, N64 stuff on the DS, and more relevant, the "Wii Control" series, reissues of GCN game on the Wii.
The real question is, why would they suddenly stop now?
It was frustrating against Tentalus a few times, simply because I had trouble getting the skyward strike to register consistently (had to rely on the bow, and precise aiming under pressure is not my strong suit). I also was one of those rare people who generally had trouble getting the hang of Moldarach, generally because I had trouble with the stabbing motion.
Fine motor control isn't exactly my forte ;-)
The Wii play control titles numbered 7, one of which never made it over here, three of which the controls were already "done" (Metroid prime 3 -> 1 & 2, NPC Pikmin -> NPC Pikmin 2), and then the horribly botched DKJB and Mario Power Tennis.
Stuff like Mario 64 DS, Starfox 64 3DS, OoT 3DS were quick updates to decade old games just to have something for a new hardware launch. If something like this was happening for Wii U, we would know about it already.
It's entirely possible that they'll do some HD re-releases, but you are completely deluded to count it as inevitable. They're just as likely to release Wii isos on the VC, or nothing at all.