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[enzo_gt]

TBH if the roster ends up being 32 and most people forever think it was to be 28, I think that would've been a tangible enough of a difference that the inaccurate leaks hurt the game, even if it's only a 4 character difference, it's much closer to vanilla's starting roster.

I think it would have made a more positive reaction even in spite of X-Men, 4Women, etc.

 

[Turbanator]

The only thing that could alter the perception are mind-blowing additions to the roster. The gameplay being good isn't enough for the majority of people Capcom is looking to sell the game to. The story doesn't look that great, so what exactly is going to rope people in?

Do you think Venom would do the trick?

 

[Shadoken]

Isn't sf3 loved by the hardcore fgc but hated by the masses for it's "bad roster" ie all new characters no fan favorites.

Its really loved by hipster FGC , thats why its so popular on GAF. I think the graphics dont look too good , I mean look at this.

 

[sephi22]

Do you think Venom would do the trick?

I think he'd be the season 2 Akuma of sfv. He'd lead to a spurt in sales, but they will plateau again after the casuals get bored after losing online.

I can see this game being successful only if a lot of casuals buy it at launch and stay with it. If a casual player hops online and only faces hardcore players then this game won't have any legs

 

[Newniverse]

Let people find out venom is in the game while this whole spider verse business is going on. Instant attraction.

 

[kobu]

Its really loved by hipster FGC , thats why its so popular on GAF. I think the graphics dont look too good , I mean look at this.

this never gets old

 

[Doctrine Dark]

Do you think Venom would do the trick?

I think Venom is a character that could have a significant impact.

He has to be on the base roster, though.

 

[sephi22]

Let people find out venom is in the game while this whole spider verse business is going on. Instant attraction.

Oh shit I forgot about the comic book crowd. That's 10 more copies right there.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Well obviously it can't, since it's drawing heavy criticism from casual observers who frankly don't understand the market or what it takes to be a good fighting game beyond the superficial.

My solution is to go full esports and eschew the casuals entirely, provide cheaper games or launch their games as a free service with a mind to sell extra content - like Killer Instinct on PC.

The other way is to recognize where they've been criticized and develop Street Fighter VI, which I think will exist based on the success of CPT if nothing else, as a "comeback" game designed to address the concerns of casuals.



It's very divisive WITHIN the FGC.

It's not hard to find people who think it's the best Street Fighter, and people who think it's the worst.

I personally don't think a fighter game could ever go the FGC only route and do well. As a small comparison there's killer instinct which has its hardcore fanbase but has been struggling (though part of that is due to the platform).

 

[BronsonLee]

My understanding was that KI actually does very well

Them slowly doling it out to other platforms probably helps too

 

[sephi22]

Being F2P helped KI. When they announced that Season 3 bundle with everything before it for $60, a lot of people jumped in including me.

Heck even DOA5 is a F2P success. That game's been getting waifu DLC till this day. If Capcom shuts down CPT and puts all those resources into Chun costumes, they can probably feed their employees for a few years.

I hope the Steam release gets a similar deal.

ASW should start making DLC outfits for its waifus. They are undoubtedly the best looking ladies in gaming, and the best animated.

Guilty Gear's so niche that even if every active player buys a costume, it wouldn't cover the cost of making one, because of all the hand painting and animating they need to do.
Blazblue's another story though. That game's fueled by weebs and waifus Kappa.

 

[Karsticles]

Being F2P helped KI. When they announced that Season 3 bundle with everything before it for $60, a lot of people jumped in including me.

Heck even DOA5 is a F2P success. That game's been getting waifu DLC till this day. If Capcom shuts down CPT and puts all those resources into Chun costumes, they can probably feed their employees for a few years

I hope the Steam release gets a similar deal.

ASW should start making DLC outfits for its waifus. They are undoubtedly the best looking ladies in gaming, and the best animated.

 

[Sheroking]

My understanding was that KI actually does very well

Them slowly doling it out to other platforms probably helps too

As a free-to-start product, it will acquire casuals based on the value proposition alone. Going to Steam will be huge for Killer Instinct as more people will see it and give it a chance.

It would be the same with Street Fighter, and by going this route they no longer have to fill the expectations of casuals looking for $60 worth of SP content. They'd be able to let the people explore the game for free, and peddle the game more directly to the FGC and an MP only experience.

 

[enzo_gt]

Rewatching some gameplay videos, dunno if it's noted, but before the match officially starts, you can switch back and forth between your two characters as much as you want and they jump in and out.

 

[Keits]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQrm4i9sZhA

Champ vs a bunch of us. Great stuff, from CEO sunday evening when we were really getting the hang of it. Still much slop though.

 

[Eternal Flame]

Mcv3 early build exhibition at EVO 2010 for comparison.

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=g_O6xkbLr0A

Link isn't working.


Here's one from EVO 2010 featuring Justin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_O6xkbLr0A

The level of play in the Justin/FChamp matches is already more advance than that. But again, they are used to Marvel 3 engine so it's easier to move from 3 to this than from 2 to 3.

Marvel 3 still looks aesthetically better.

Looking at this makes me realize how nice it would have been to see some of the other stages more often in tourneys. ( yeah I know "lag" and Darkness) but still some were nice. Hopefully infinite won't be a training/white stage snooze fest.

 

[Ryce]

Is this a glitch? I’m playing the demo and the chromatic aberration went wild on Dante’s portrait. It’s like the game is taunting me.

Just get rid of it altogether. It’s so hideous.

 

[sephi22]

It seems MoonmoonOW is an Aris mod/subscriber, so he might've seen that Aris rant about being a fighting game consumer and got the wrong impression about Yipes being a shill from that.

 

[JayEH]

capcom thought that dante model was ok


they thought that chun li model was ok


they looked at it and said "this is fine"

they were so proud of that chun li model that made sure that you got real good looks of it in the e3 trailer.

 

[Durden77]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQrm4i9sZhA

Champ vs a bunch of us. Great stuff, from CEO sunday evening when we were really getting the hang of it. Still much slop though.

Ugh I really want this game.

 

[crimzonflame]

Isn't sf3 loved by the hardcore fgc but hated by the masses for it's "bad roster" ie all new characters no fan favorites.

I honestly never liked SF3. I remember not many people paying much attention to it when it came to the arcades. This is my experience locally. Then all off a sudden like magic no one at my arcade was playing SFA3 anymore and everyone is playing 3S. It was all so sudden. Could never explain it.

 

[JayEH]

can both players use infinity storm at the same time?

 

[Risero]

The problem with Capcom's game as a service model is that unlike MOBA's which made that model popular, SFV and MVCI are charging a full 60$ price tag. So if you want the full game you need to pay 60$ plus several 30$ season passes unlike MOBAs which let you get all current and future characters for 40-60$ all of which come out at one character a month. Now obviously more work to make a MOBA character than a fighting game character but the point that you are paying 60$ for an incomplete game and the DLC characters aren't cheap or earnable in the case of MVCI. Now Overwatch also adopted the game as a service model with about 3 character releases a year. Overwatch not only has a lower price of 40$ but it also gives the player all future content for free, holding back only skins behind a paywall. Capcom wants to have their cake and eat it to so to speak. They want to charge for a full 60$ game but they also want to have a free to play esc deal with the characters where everything post release is hidden behind a pretty expensive paywall. They left the normal fighting game standard of providing a full game at launch, but they haven't gone full free to play. They need to either

1. Adopt the MOBA method of making the game free but you have to earn/buy characters
Or
2. Adopt the Overwatch method of charging for the game and cosmetics but make all the characters free

Because right now they're stuck in this in-between that nobody likes

 

[Keits]

can both players use infinity storm at the same time?

No, not in the CEO build. And we all felt pretty vulnerable after activation in that build too. Doing it out of blockstun wasnt at all like mvc3.

 

[Blueblur1]

Mcv3 early build exhibition at EVO 2010 for comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_O6xkbLr0A

Wow, MvC3 looked so much better at 50% than Infinite has so far. Unbelievable.

 

[Risero]

Link isn't working.


Here's one from EVO 2010 featuring Justin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_O6xkbLr0A

The level of play in the Justin/FChamp matches is already more advance than that. But again, they are used to Marvel 3 engine so it's easier to move from 3 to this than from 2 to 3.

Marvel 3 still looks aesthetically better.

I disagree that it looks better. The effects and character models on the character select screen especially look mediocre in comparison to the MVCI demo

 

[shaowebb]

LOL. Called it...folks are already trying to rock Ultron/Rocket. I figured since both have moves that essentially act as assists plus they both have great screen control people would use that shit with their tags and become super annoying. Suddenly I'm seeing lots of offscreen demo play and folks are loading down rocket traps, callin groot, taggin in and goin Ultron nuts.

Mixups in this game are gonna get nuts. Plus lol at the Anti-Keits tech returning from TVC. Reality stone homing orbs plus Infinity storm = red balls on a red background vs a colorblind man. Its Burning Wasteland from TVC all over again.

 

[Skilletor]

Wow, MvC3 looked so much better at 50% than Infinite has so far. Unbelievable.

I'm just not seeing it. Game looks super flat and washed out there. Aside from a few models, I far prefer how MvC:I looks.

 

[vg260]

I disagree that it looks better. The effects and character models on the character select screen especially look mediocre in comparison to the MVCI demo

Only on a purely technical level, which should be a given considering they're on different generations of tech. That really isn't saying much in terms of aesthetics. The fact that it's even debatable which looks "better" given the tech differences says a lot.

IMO, both MvC3 and TvC are better looking games when you adjust for inflation so to speak.

 

[Karsticles]

Watching the footage Keits shared brings 2 things to mind:
1) Reality Stone probably needs a nerf.

2) The screen should really zoom out to always include the floor instead of panning around. This was a problem in MvC3, but it's an egregious problem here. Having the screen teleport down every time you tag from superjump height is jarring.

Also, Dr. Strange's special effects are WAY better in MvCi than UMvC3. If they go back and give everyone else the same levels of flash this will easily outdo UMvC3 in the graphical department.

 

[bangbang i'm a timpani]

pros still aren't tagging in neutral.

 

[AWizardDidIt]

Air juggling into projectile super then tagging in your partner and doing another projectile super from the other side is seriously the hypest shit I can't get over it.

I feel like after watching all the videos I can out of E3 and CEO that Captain Marvel looks like she might be an early contender for high tier. She's getting a lot of play and just seems really solid.

 

[Dahbomb]

pros still aren't tagging in neutral.

Because it's not that safe unless the opponent is in block stun/very far away.

Even in that video you could see FChamp punishing tags with Captain Marvel's slide. Granted Captain Marvel is pretty good in that build but there were still many happy birthday moments in those sets.

 

[Risero]

Air juggling into projectile super then tagging in your partner and doing another projectile super from the other side is seriously the hypest shit I can't get over it.

I feel like after watching all the videos I can out of E3 and CEO that Captain Marvel looks like she might be an early contender for high tier. She's getting a lot of play and just seems really solid.

Do you have a link to footage of that? I've been looking for it because it sounds cool

 

[Keits]

pros still aren't tagging in neutral.

You have to cover your teammate. They stand there for like 4 seconds vulnerable when you tag them out. If the opponent does a beam super or you make a bad call you can eat a ton of damage.

Capt. Marvel's armor felt really strong in that build. She could put it on for free at superjump+ height, very hard to punish, and then armor tons of lights and projectiles for a duration. Takes her from pretty good to really scary.

 

[DR2K]

MVCi gameplay systems aren't really making the case for the replacement of assists or 3v3. It's "assist" system is narrowed down to specific gems that all work the same exact way. With specific activations that work the same.

The way tag mechanics work are so convoluted and that it's the opposite of newbie friendly.

I just don't see the rationale behind these changes.

 

[Anth0ny]

MVCi gameplay systems aren't really making the case for the replacement of assists or 3v3. It's "assist" system is narrowed down to specific gems that all work the same exact way. With specific activations that work the same.

The way tag mechanics work are so convoluted and that it's the opposite of newbie friendly.

I just don't see the rationale behind these changes.

Exactly!


like always, new players will go online, get fucking annihilated by players who know how the tag system works. it'll all just be a clusterfuck of colors and characters popping in and out of the screen.


and then they never play the game again

 

[sephi22]

Karsticles, I'm reading what you're saying about these strange changes but not seeing it.

Like he doesn't even throw an astral spirit in his level 3 anymore. He flies towards the opponent himself. I don't know if that's a balancing decision or what but his level 3 looks way worse than 3. Eye of Agamotto special is nicely detailed though.

Exactly!


like always, new players will go online, get fucking annihilated by players who know how the tag system works. it'll all just be a clusterfuck of colors and characters popping in and out of the screen.


and then they never play the game again

But down, down dragon punches and autocombos tho. You scrubs think you know more than Capcom?

 

[Durden77]

Honestly the thing that's most disappointing to me about the game's presentation are not the graphics (and I've still got faith they will be smoothed up a bit before release), it's the voice acting.

Maybe I'm just too used to UMvC's explosively awesome VA, but everyone here sounds pretty flat and dumb. Like you compare Dante's sexy as fuck "...Jackpot" on his super in UMvC3 to his weird little "YeAh!!!" in this on the same super, and it's just like what the hell. How do you backtrack so badly on that. And it seems like that kind of across the board.

 

[enzo_gt]

MVCi gameplay systems aren't really making the case for the replacement of assists or 3v3. It's "assist" system is narrowed down to specific gems that all work the same exact way. With specific activations that work the same.

The way tag mechanics work are so convoluted and that it's the opposite of newbie friendly.

I just don't see the rationale behind these changes.

Neutral setups that you would otherwise create using an assist are now done through a switch. You gain considerably more flexibility in what you want as the assist (anything up to a super, even) but you lose mobility during the switch, and it's a bit more telegraphed than in MvC3, but then you also have the gems to work with on top of that.

There's pros and cons, but the intrateam dynamics are so different from what is a pretty big change to the mechanics so it's difficult to compare directly to MvC3. Some parts got more complicated (and I didn't even mention combo structure), and some parts got less complicated.

IMO they've done a pretty good job of showing and telling (although, maybe not to the general audience lol) why it's got a lot to sink your teeth into, which has alleviated one of my biggest complaints about the game on paper.


You know what's convoluted? MvC3 not telling you jack shit about it's mechanics. People have played MvC3 their whole lives without knowing what a DHC is. Put a tutorial in MvC:I that says you can tag anytime and MvC3 is in the dust as far as newbie friendliness goes. There is no way MvC:I isn't the most newbie friendly MvC of all time. It isn't even CLOSE.

 

[sephi22]

Honestly the thing that's most disappointing to me about the game's presentation are not the graphics (and I've still got faith they will be smoothed up a bit before release), it's the voice acting.

Maybe I'm just too used to UMvC's explosively awesome VA, but everyone here sounds pretty flat and dumb. Like you compare Dante's sexy as fuck "...Jackpot" on his super in UMvC3 to his weird little "YeAh!!!" in this on the same super, and it's just like what the hell. How do you backtrack so badly on that. And it seems like that kind of across the board.

Thank you. Another person shares my #1 complaint. You think the voice actor strike might've had an impact? The voice acting is flaccid all around.

I don't want Magneto or Super Skrull in this game for the same reason. There's no way they can top or even match their MvC3 voice acting.

 

[Lulubop]

Watching the footage Keits shared brings 2 things to mind:
1) Reality Stone probably needs a nerf.

2) The screen should really zoom out to always include the floor instead of panning around. This was a problem in MvC3, but it's an egregious problem here. Having the screen teleport down every time you tag from superjump height is jarring.

Also, Dr. Strange's special effects are WAY better in MvCi than UMvC3. If they go back and give everyone else the same levels of flash this will easily outdo UMvC3 in the graphical department.

Nova's too.

 

[lucebuce12]

Honestly the thing that's most disappointing to me about the game's presentation are not the graphics (and I've still got faith they will be smoothed up a bit before release), it's the voice acting.

Maybe I'm just too used to UMvC's explosively awesome VA, but everyone here sounds pretty flat and dumb. Like you compare Dante's sexy as fuck "...Jackpot" on his super in UMvC3 to his weird little "YeAh!!!" in this on the same super, and it's just like what the hell. How do you backtrack so badly on that. And it seems like that kind of across the board.

The weird thing is that even the returning voice actors just sound bored. When EVERYONE sounds dull or just sounds incredibly lifeless, it's pretty obvious that this is a directing issue.

 

[enzo_gt]

Also, every character being able to continue OTG after spike in the air is a plus for newbies too. MvC3 though? Lol if you even figured out OTGs were a mechanic in that tiny window you have post-spike to call an assist to keep it going.

Y'all trippin' if you think this isn't more of an intuitive game at face value and mechanically. The MvC games are historically some of the most newbie unfriendly games of all time.

 

[Frost Walrus]

Honestly the thing that's most disappointing to me about the game's presentation are not the graphics (and I've still got faith they will be smoothed up a bit before release), it's the voice acting.

Maybe I'm just too used to UMvC's explosively awesome VA, but everyone here sounds pretty flat and dumb. Like you compare Dante's sexy as fuck "...Jackpot" on his super in UMvC3 to his weird little "YeAh!!!" in this on the same super, and it's just like what the hell. How do you backtrack so badly on that. And it seems like that kind of across the board.

Yeah, this has been bugging me a lot while looking at footage. About the only characters thus far that seem to live up to the MvC3 ham are Thanos and maybe Ultron, but I can't tell half of what they're saying.

It doesn't help that the sound effects seem to drown most characters out.

 

[Risero]

MVCi gameplay systems aren't really making the case for the replacement of assists or 3v3. It's "assist" system is narrowed down to specific gems that all work the same exact way. With specific activations that work the same.

The way tag mechanics work are so convoluted and that it's the opposite of newbie friendly.

I just don't see the rationale behind these changes.

The gems aren't a replacement for assists, they're a groove system / replacement for X factor, the free form tag is a replacement for assists. The tag isn't opposite of new friendly, assists were. Tags are much easier to keep track of and understand in comparison to assists where you have to pick one of 3 (which don't have descriptions) then in battle you have to try and call them randomly in a trial and error to see what assists are good and do what. Then of course there's the concept of assist punishing which leads to noobs never using assists because knowing how to call them properly isn't something the game teaches at all. The tag on the other hand is simple, as the player knows exactly what is going to happen every time they hit that button. My 12 year old brother who hated umvc3 because "it's hard and complicated" was playing the MVCI demo and he was tagging mid

Spoiler

auto

combo like a mother fucker.

The tag simultaneously lowered the necessary skill floor while raising the skill ceiling

 

[Newniverse]

Also, every character being able to continue OTG after spike in the air is a plus for newbies too. MvC3 though? Lol if you even figured out OTGs were a mechanic in that tiny window you have post-spike to call an assist to keep it going.

Y'all trippin' if you think this isn't more of an intuitive game at face value and mechanically. The MvC games are historically some of the most newbie unfriendly games of all time.

This.

The gems aren't a replacement for assists, they're a groove system / replacement for X factor, the free form tag is a replacement for assists. The tag isn't opposite of new friendly, assists were. Tags are much easier to keep track of and understand in comparison to assists where you have to pick one of 3 (which don't have descriptions) then in battle you have to try and call them randomly in a trial and error to see what assists are good and do what. Then of course there's the concept of assist punishing which leads to noobs never using assists because knowing how to call them properly isn't something the game teaches at all. The tag on the other hand is simple, as the player knows exactly what is going to happen every time they hit that button. My 12 year old brother who hated umvc3 because "it's hard and complicated" was playing the MVCI demo and he was tagging mid

Spoiler

auto

combo like a mother fucker.

The tag simultaneously lowered the necessary skill floor while raising the skill ceiling

and this.

 

[Durden77]

Thank you. Another person shares my #1 complaint. You think the voice actor strike might've had an impact? The voice acting is flaccid all around.

I don't want Magneto or Super Skrull in this game for the same reason. There's no way they can top or even match their MvC3 voice acting.

IIRC, I don't think Capcom was one of the companies they were going against. I could be wrong though.

And yeah, UMvC3 seriously has some of the best VA in games period. Just glorious sound bites everywhere you look. It honestly got taken for granted a little I think, because you get something like this and you realize how much that stuff matters.

The weird thing is that even the returning voice actors just sound bored. When EVERYONE sounds dull or just sounds incredibly lifeless, it's pretty obvious that this is a directing issue.

Yeah, this is probably more it. It's definitely not just like a thing to where 1 or 2 characters sound worse, they all do. It's really a shame, and it may even be a design choice to make the game more "muted" along with the graphics, which is an even bigger shame if that's the case. The stars aligned with UMvC3's VA, and now we'll never get that again.

I just hope this is just some hasty placeholder VA they put out for the demo. I do know that a decent amount of VA changed in MvC3/UMvC3 from pre-release to release. But considering that it looks like a lot of the story cutscenes are recorded, I doubt it unfortunately.

 

[Karsticles]

Via Dahbomb:
https://youtu.be/w9dUGcMBr0Q

I learned 2 things from this video:
Morrigan has the best aerial rushdown of the cast so far, and it gives me hope for Jedah being "preserved".
Reality X-Factor gives you Phoenix feathers that go full screen - lol!

It's sad that a planet buster like Morrigan is so uninteresting, though. They should have kept the fly-cancels, but disabled specials during her flight.

 

[Newniverse]

I think Venom is a character that could have a significant impact.

He has to be on the base roster, though.

Pretty much my thinking, and I think he will be.

Via Dahbomb:
https://youtu.be/w9dUGcMBr0Q

Before I continue to watch this video, and maybe this is just me, but those effects and graphics look atleast 2 times better, and this video is even off screen. All this talk about the e3 build looking better, is sounding about right.