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[warp_]

Did we read the same article?

His starting comparison of Marvel to "Olive Garden in Italy" is weak, but not unrelated, so I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.

Proof that the game is doing poorly in the UK and Japan, which adds to the argument he's trying to make (those markets are not the ultimate determinants of Marvel's success, given that they have historically done weak compared to the US).

Unlike you, I'm not gonna end my post with any silly snark attempt.

He implies that Media Create (or as he terms it, Media Crate) numbers are fake and also fails to mention that while Marvel games do worse in Japan, this one sold 10% of the numbers that the MVC3 did. That's not just "not great", as he puts it, that's historically bad.

MVCI was outsold its first week by Destiny 2 and NBA2K in Japan. Abyssmal isn't even a strong enough word.

 

[Compbros]

How's the article "something else?" The author is right. He even condenses the entire article to one line: "My takeaway is this: wait and see before passing any major judgement." I mean, that's a reasonable approach to take. He's not being controversial or inflammatory about anything.

Because it's ignoring a lot of circumstantial (and concrete) evidence of the game doing poorly. Sure, it's bigger in the US but most games are. At the same time Capcom fighters are a global brand and Marvel has some of the most popular heroes in the World including the most popular in Spider-man. To see it sell 8,700 in Japan and be 12th in UK when the games that week combined sold 250k paints a picture. People can say anyone spelling doom is jumping to conclusions but the reverse is true in that people can say anyone thinking it's gonna have great numbers in the U.S. are being optimistic. Capcom's goal of 2 million by March is almost certainly unreachable and I think it'll be lucky to hit 1.3 million by the end of next year. It's bad because the gameplay is outstanding but Capcom has fucked up at every turn in regards to this game and their last 6 years of fighting games.


Also, don't forget, people thought this would do Injustice numbers or even beat it simply based off of how popular the Marvel brand is. A brand that strong combining to sell probably around 60-70k so far when factoring in PC for a beloved franchise looks bad. Do people with the wait and see attitude think NA is gonna propel it to a success? I don't see it happening, I see 250k and that's ME being optimistic.

 

[MechaX]

LOL let's not try to justify things with clearly false statements

Hey, he is at least good at that weird PS1 port of Super Turbo!

 

[Shin K Dash]

This is where people like him typically resort to
1. Twitch numbers
2. People playing it online
3. Tournament entries

even though they have been proven with SFV to not actually affect sales, considering it has yet to hit it's original sales goal.

Edit: Oh hey I was right! Plus we also got this weird line:

Basically.

People fail to realize that the competitive scene or "esports" mostly operates at a lost to the developers. The point of it is to market your games to either get more people buying copies off the shelve or get more people downloading it and buying micro-transactions. The fact that the tournament scene is not pushing a steady number of copies off the shelve makes me wonder how substantial this esports model for Capcom will be in the long run.

 

[ZeroCDR]

Define 'good'. He's good compared to your average 9-to-5 working with 2 kids at home, 'can't do a bnb' gaffer. He would get mopped by FGC-GAF like Q, FSlink, Luce, Karst, etc. Heck I have 3x DSP's SFV ranked points and I'm a pot monster.

Maximillian can body him 1 handed. LowTierGod can body him 5-0. DSP is a joke

Good at, as in, good at. Not best. I don't have any love for the guy but he is definitely better than the average player (when not streaming his persona). I'm not surprised to see him ranking high this early. I don't expect it to last.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

Basically.

People fail to realize that the competitive scene or "esports" mostly operates at a lost to the developers. The point of it is to market your games to either get more people buying copies off the shelve or get more people downloading it and buying micro-transactions. The fact that the tournament scene is not pushing a steady number of copies off the shelve makes me wonder how substantial this esports model for Capcom will be in the long run.

Yup. He mentions it being an example of Capcom "playing the long game". Clearly they're not winning the long game if barely anyone new is actually buying into the game post-launch. Like it's struggling to sell 100k in three month timespans and never ranks among the top-selling monthly titles.

 

[MechaX]

Basically.

People fail to realize that the competitive scene or "esports" mostly operates at a lost to the developers. The point of it is to market your games to either get more people buying copies off the shelve or get more people downloading it and buying micro-transactions. The fact that the tournament scene is not pushing a steady number of copies off the shelve makes me wonder how substantial this esports model for Capcom will be in the long run.

I am personally curious on this as well; like selling gamer chairs and a few sticks here and there can't possibly be cutting it. In SFV's case, they are getting people to tune in, but not necessarily getting people to actually play. This is different from your MOBA's or even FPS games where this can translate into even longer legs or micro transactions. Even in cases like Smash with very attenuated dev support, you can at least translate exposure into buying games of other franchises.

Between SF and Marvel esports efforts, where they likely had to pay off a lot to bump off random volleyball games, I am just curious what the end game is here if it's not translating into pushing more copies.

 

[Compbros]

It's not a flop because when you look at how the online gameplay community is, it's basically bigger than any other fighting game out there. I love Injustice 2, but one year from now that game online community will be mostly dead, just like it happened with Injustice 1. Capcom is always about the long game. And I understand you prefering western made games with big story modes if that's your thing, but since I grew up with basically like a competitive scene wannabe, oriental fighting games has always been my thing. SFV online scene is easily the strongest right now when it comes to fighting games. Yes, it has become a niche market, but that's okay in my book. I don't mind the several DLCs and season passes because I'm used to pay several times for these games, it was like that back in the Snes era, we just had to buy different cartridges instead.

Can we stop with this whole "NRS games dead after a year" thing? I played MK9 a few weeks ago and was getting a ton of matches. It had over 100 people for one lobby and people playing ranked in the middle of a Tuesday. Games last a looooong time these days and online communities will remain active for quite a while. You'll never hit near their peak numbers but it's not like there's 16 people online for MK9 let alone MKX.


How do you know SFV has "easily" the best online scene right now? Are there numbers for this? Any metric you can point to at all?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Basically.

People fail to realize that the competitive scene or "esports" mostly operates at a lost to the developers. The point of it is to market your games to either get more people buying copies off the shelve or get more people downloading it and buying micro-transactions. The fact that the tournament scene is not pushing a steady number of copies off the shelve makes me wonder how substantial this esports model for Capcom will be in the long run.

Be a real shame to go from sold out arenas to bumming it out in arcade venues.

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

pretty sure tekken has the best online numbers right now going by the steamcharts stats

 

[Kebiinu]

It's not a flop because when you look at how the online gameplay community is, it's basically bigger than any other fighting game out there. I love Injustice 2, but one year from now that game online community will be mostly dead, just like it happened with Injustice 1. Capcom is always about the long game. And I understand you prefering western made games with big story modes if that's your thing, but since I grew up with basically like a competitive scene wannabe, oriental fighting games has always been my thing. SFV online scene is easily the strongest right now when it comes to fighting games. Yes, it has become a niche market, but that's okay in my book. I don't mind the several DLCs and season passes because I'm used to pay several times for these games, it was like that back in the Snes era, we just had to buy different cartridges instead.

Capcom is not thinking in terms of "online community" they're thinking sales, they're a corporation. Not a, "We can sell 100 copies, but if those 100 customers are loyal enough to keep the community afloat, then it's not a flop!"

SFV is the definition of flop, lol. Despite what the online community tells you, the game was not a success for Capcom. I don't even think it reached their sales goal. Neither will MvC:I going by these current sales. Your 500k prediction is basically you saying you predict it will flop.

Again, this is about sales. Which is what Capcom really, REALLY needs.

 

[iJack]

Can we stop with this whole "NRS games dead after a year" thing? I played MK9 a few weeks ago and was getting a ton of matches. It had over 100 people for one lobby and people playing ranked in the middle of a Tuesday. Games last a looooong time these days and online communities will remain active for quite a while. You'll never hit near their peak numbers but it's not like there's 16 people online for MK9 let alone MKX.


How do you know SFV has "easily" the best online scene right now? Are there numbers for this? Any metric you can point to at all?

Try Injustice 1. My experience with it (both Steam/PS4) since the end of 2014 was awful. Hours on queue waiting to the point I just gave up. Same for Guilty Gear Xrd Sign since middle 2015. That's my personal experience with those.

 

[QisTopTier]

No one plays ranked in asw games

Asw players tend to migrate forward as well sign is redundant for vs atm when they are 2 updates ahead of that

 

[Compbros]

Try Injustice 1. My experience with it (both Steam/PS4) since the end of 2014 was awful. Hours on queue waiting to the point I just gave up. Same for Guilty Gear Xrd Sign since middle 2015. That's my personal experience with those.

Of course I1 is done because I2 plays very similarly so there's no itch in I1 that I2 doesn't scratch except with characters. MK9/X/I2 play differently so you can't get the same out of MKX that you would in MK9 or I2. Xrd has gotten 2 updates since then and has gained more popularity. Your frame of reference for these games are literally years old. Have you fired up Rev 2? MKX? Anything that's not SFV to say why these things are dead?


Edit: Also, I1 died quickly because it sucked.

 

[QisTopTier]

pretty sure tekken has the best online numbers right now going by the steamcharts stats

Yup T7 is a monster compared to other fighters on steam

SFV gets the perk of being crossplay at least

 

[Blueblur1]

Also been removed from Capcom unity website

http://www.capcom-unity.com/johndmoney/blog

He's profile is still there though. #FakeNews

Spoiler

lol I just wanted to use that hashtag once

 

[warp_]

http://www.capcom-unity.com/johndmoney/blog

He's profile is still there though. #FakeNews

Spoiler

lol I just wanted to use that hashtag once

He is no longer listed on the staff section on the forum though

 

[FSLink]

Yeah maybe DSP is good-

@TheyCallMeDSP 11h11 hours ago
More
you earn mad props from me for also using Nemesis, must be tough with the insane combo spam on PS4.

.....lol

 

[Compbros]

Yeah maybe DSP is good-




.....lol

I played him yesterday, completely kilt me with dirty noodles and jump attacks.

 

[Shin K Dash]

Be a real shame to go from sold out arenas to bumming it out in arcade venues.

it's a sad future but a realistic one. As a dev, you cannot use esports as a foundation; your game is your foundation and esports is simply a column. And a column, no matter how strong it is, wont stay erect on a weak foundation.

 

[Pompadour]

Capcom is not thinking in terms of "online community" they're thinking sales, they're a corporation. Not a, "We can sell 100 copies, but if those 100 customers are loyal enough to keep the community afloat, then it's not a flop!"

SFV is the definition of flop, lol. Despite what the online community tells you, the game was not a success for Capcom. I don't even think it reached their sales goal. Neither will MvC:I going by these current sales. Your 500k prediction is basically you saying you predict it will flop.

Again, this is about sales. Which is what Capcom really, REALLY needs.

I think you may need to define flop because I wouldn't call a game a flop if it failed to meet sales expectations (and you're right, still hasn't) but continues to receive support through DLC and through eSports. There's no evidence of them cutting their losses and I would figure that if a company produced a "flop" they wouldn't throw good money after bad.

SFV has been out for a year and a half. It's not like they're legally obligated to keep supporting it, especially by dropping a big update two days ago.

And they are thinking of the online community. The online community gives them money. They advertise the game with YouTube videos and by playing online it gives others a reason to play online. I'm sure there's dudes that buy every DLC female costume and never jump online but they aren't funding SFV themselves.

 

[Blueblur1]

He is no longer listed on the staff section on the forum though

Hmm, interesting.

 

[Kintaro]

I think you may need to define flop because I wouldn't call a game a flop if it failed to meet sales expectations (and you're right, still hasn't) but continues to receive support through DLC and through eSports.

Any product that has failed to meet sales expectations is a disappointment. SFV isn't a flop, but it certainly isn't a glowing success either. DLC support, eSports and such were probably earmarked a long time ago during development. All of that is probably decent marketing for them. DLC sales are probably pretty decent too. Decent enough to keep going.

Then again, Capcom has very few things to lean on for long-term success, so they may as well try to get what they can out of what they have. If Monster Hunter World disappoints...oh boy.

 

[Nanashrew]

Did we read the same article?

His starting comparison of Marvel to "Olive Garden in Italy" is weak, but not unrelated, so I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.

Proof that the game is doing poorly in the UK and Japan, which adds to the argument he's trying to make (those markets are not the ultimate determinants of Marvel's success, given that they have historically done weak compared to the US).

Unlike you, I'm not gonna end my post with any silly snark attempt.

MvC has done decent in those territories at the very least. MvCi cratered on opening week. There's no wait and see about this, we have the numbers to past games to compare to. Ultra Street Fighter 2, a low effort $40 port of an old game outsold MvCI in two countries in the first week. That is a spectacular bomba.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Not sure if posted

Final Fantasy IX Tops PS4 Download Charts in Japan; Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite Debuts in 20th

List in order:

Final Fantasy IX
Star Wars Battlefront – Ultimate Edition
Assassin's Creed Freedom Cry
Destiny 2
Titanfall 2
Dragon Quest III
NieR: Automata
PES 2018 Barcelona Edition
Patapon
Need for Speed
Battlefield 4 Premium Edition
Undertale
Assassin's Creed Syndicate
Dragon Quest II
Minecraft: PlayStation 4 Edition
Samurai Shodown V Special
Grand Theft Auto V
Earth Defense Force 4.1: Shadow of New Despair
Everybody's Golf
Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite

https://www.dualshockers.com/final-fantasy-9-tops-ps4-download-charts/

 

[Inuhanyou]

MVCI didnt seem to have any hype behind it whatsoever even in the west

 

[Jawmuncher]

MVCI didnt seem to have any hype behind it whatsoever even in the west

It really didn’t. It was mainly all hate since E3 and the roster just sunk things further. MvC is all about the hype and between the characters and presentation it didn’t bring it. Which is a shame because it’s a fun game to play.

 

[Madness]

MVCI didnt seem to have any hype behind it whatsoever even in the west

Even worse is how their PR treated fans like morons. Saying no X-Men were in the game because fans don't really remembee Wolverine and Magneto and people only picked Magneto for function over who he was. The series started as X-Men vs Street Fighter for fucks sake. Capcom deserves everything it gets regarding SFV and now MvC:I for how it has marketed, sold and created its games.

 

[BronsonLee]

I blame Combofiend for everything

The Magneto comments, Spencer inexplicably being in this game, all of the graphics, clearly his doing to lure people away

 

[lucebuce12]

He sacrificed his favourite franchise for the sake of the future, bless him.

 

[dragonzdogma]

...and what will it take to get you to buy it?

I was could've gotten the game at $34 preoder
But I still skipped it because of the way the characters eyes looked, they have dead eyes, especially in their portraits.

The roster is one of the worst.

But all it it would take for me to buy it , is if capcom would announce that the would revamp the overall presentation of the game, hud , portraits, character select screen , ect.


Hire shinkiro to do some art for this game, geez.


Also, add Gene already.

 

[slosherbomb]

pathetic

 

[lucebuce12]

...and what will it take to get you to buy it?

Roster is really really shitty.

Adding She-Hulk would make it not so shitty.

 

[deftech sold out]

Bought this earlier today. Not feeling it at all. Timing is weird on combos, gem mechanic is lame, and the roster is terrible.

 

[LaNaranja]

...and what will it take to get you to buy it?

The roster is bad, the characters look terrible, abut the biggest thing keeping me back is Capcom themselves. Street Fighter 5 has some of the most disgusting DLC practices I have ever seen. Like holy shit, they are currently trying to sell 16 Street Fighter V costumes for $29.99. Like what the fuck is wrong with those disgusting monsters. The base game sells for $40 on PSN. Or how about two limited time only Capcom Tour costumes, along with some color swaps, and a yet to be revealed stage, for $24.99. "Be sure to grab it before it's gone!" Fuck off.

 

[Boss Doggie]

The series started as X-Men: Children of the Atom

fixed

so yeah it is damning

 

[patchday]

Well pretty every fighting game out there has inferior roster to MvC2 pretty much (in regards to pure numbers & probably brand recognition). Unfortunately as tech advanced, games have actually devolved, gotten more expensive, and come with less features (not across the board, but in some cases)

MvC2 was a masterpiece with over 50 characters and you could play it at your local Arcade the way God intended

Come at me bro, nothing can touch this

 

[Cerium]

Well pretty every fighting game out there has inferior roster to MvC2 pretty much (in regards to pure numbers & probably brand recognition). Unfortunately as tech advanced, games have actually devolved, gotten more expensive, and come with less features (not across the board, but in some cases)

MvC2 was a masterpiece with over 50 characters and you could play it at your local Arcade the way God intended

Come at me bro, nothing can touch this

Hold my beer.

 

[patchday]

I love Smash but that's a Brawler in my book. I play it pretty often with my kids

Was expecting something like KOF 14 to get a mention. Never played that one

edit- Also in that screenshot you have lots of DLC. That further drives home my point lol. MvC2 came with over 50 base

 

[FadedRevolution]

I love Smash but that's a Brawler in my book. I play it pretty often with my kids

Was expecting something like KOF 14 to get a mention. Never played that one

edit- Also in that screenshot you have lots of DLC. That further drives home my point lol. MvC2 came with over 50 base

Are you really implying that Marvel 2 is a game of more quality than SSB4?

 

[Karsticles]

I love Smash but that's a Brawler in my book. I play it pretty often with my kids

Was expecting something like KOF 14 to get a mention. Never played that one

edit- Also in that screenshot you have lots of DLC. That further drives home my point lol. MvC2 came with over 50 base

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but the only reason MvC2 has such a huge roster is that most of it is copy/pasted from other Capcom games. Part of the reason it's such a wonderfully broken mess with only 1/10th of the roster being playable at high levels is that the copy/paste job was sloppy, and balance was hardly considered. It's a wonderful accident that MvC2 is in the annuls of gaming history, but it isn't an example of anything being done well by the developer compared to modern gaming.

 

[Zee-Row]

Japan probably likes the X-Men just as much as the US does. It was stupid to not include them.

 

[Liliana Eileen]

Hold my beer.

Jackpot.

 

[Salty Rice]

Hold my beer.

More like hold my apple juice. /s

 

[Seesaw15]

Well pretty every fighting game out there has inferior roster to MvC2 pretty much (in regards to pure numbers & probably brand recognition). Unfortunately as tech advanced, games have actually devolved, gotten more expensive, and come with less features (not across the board, but in some cases)

MvC2 was a masterpiece with over 50 characters and you could play it at your local Arcade the way God intended

Come at me bro, nothing can touch this

9 new characters and the rest reused sprites.

 

[Liliana Eileen]

More like hold my apple juice. /s

Good thing you out that /s there

 

[Dre3001]

Capcom deserves a ton of blame for most of MvCI criticisms as they should.

But I have a hard time not believing that Disney played a huge role in this game ending up the way it did.

Looking at the rosters its completely obvious the character selections were made as a way to promote the upcoming Avengers film next year. Especially with the entire stones concept considering the next Avengers will revolve around that.

The soundtrack in this game also sounds exactly like something you would hear in one of the more recent Marvel movies like Civil War, Dr. Strange, Spiderman Homecoming, etc.

I am not absolving Capcom from the poor character design or bland presentation. But in terms of character selection this just comes off as Disney trying to keep the Avengers characters in the spotlight until the new film next year.

The only characters on the Marvel side that wont be in the new Avengers or have no ties to it are Ghostrider and Nova.

 

[nded]

Street Fighter 5 has some of the most disgusting DLC practices I have ever seen. Like holy shit, they are currently trying to sell 16 Street Fighter V costumes for $29.99. Like what the fuck is wrong with those disgusting monsters. The base game sells for $40 on PSN. Or how about two limited time only Capcom Tour costumes, along with some color swaps, and a yet to be revealed stage, for $24.99. "Be sure to grab it before it's gone!" Fuck off.

Asking $4 per costume or half price in bulk has an almost charming simplicity compared to the loot box DLC model. The CPT stuff isn't just pure profit for Capcom either; 30+% of that goes towards the tourney prize pot and 50% to run CPT.

 

[Samanosuke Akechi]

 

[FluxWaveZ]

The roster is bad, the characters look terrible, abut the biggest thing keeping me back is Capcom themselves. Street Fighter 5 has some of the most disgusting DLC practices I have ever seen. Like holy shit, they are currently trying to sell 16 Street Fighter V costumes for $29.99. Like what the fuck is wrong with those disgusting monsters. The base game sells for $40 on PSN. Or how about two limited time only Capcom Tour costumes, along with some color swaps, and a yet to be revealed stage, for $24.99. "Be sure to grab it before it's gone!" Fuck off.

At least I can get the new characters for free in SFV.