I'm trying to tell you that shit doesn't matter to me, I don't even own any of the smash games as the upcoming one will be the first one Ive ever purchased. Switch Kirby out with some other character that does the same thing and It wouldn't matter to me. The point I'm trying to make is that I have fun with the games even after not caring about the IPs. If you care about the IPs of course the game would become more interesting. Your statement is suggesting that IPs are what makes a game fun and thats just false. Look at the countless sonic games or tomb raider games. Hell Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games isn't fun to me and no amount of IP would make that game fun for me. Sure recognizable IPs will give me giggles but its not the end all be all for me.charlequin said:
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Media Create Sales 2/18 - 2/24
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
^^ i'm gonna call bullshit on this one. Street Fighter, if populated with Sesame Street characters, would be disdained. I don't ever want to hear someone claiming that IPs don't matter and that only the game underneath matters. It's utter bullshit.
Crushed said:AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHH
As an avowed descriptivist, I must formally tell you to suck it. Both idioms are in common use throughout the US, and logical correctness has never been a terribly powerful influence on English grammar. Keep fighting the good fight, tho.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
(THOUGH)
boiled goose
good with gravy
PantherLotus said:^^ i'm gonna call bullshit on this one. Street Fighter, if populated with Sesame Street characters, would be disdained. I don't ever want to hear someone claiming that IPs don't matter and that only the game underneath matters. It's utter bullshit.
I think that IPs might draw you in, but whether you stay or not depends on the quality of the game.
Smash bros is what it is today because of both of these things. if it didnt have nintendo characters no one would put enough effort into it to give the game a chance, play it enough to get good, etc.
The IPs help, no doubt, but its not what makes smash fun enough that you can play it for 5 years or more and still enjoy it.
PantherLotus said:(THOUGH)
Tho was good enough for Webster, it's good enough for me.
TwinIonEngines said:As an avowed descriptivist, I must formally tell you to suck it. Both idioms are in common use throughout the US, and logical correctness has never been a terribly powerful influence on English grammar. Keep fighting the good fight, tho.
You tell him. The time has come to take up arms and fight back against the prescriptivist scourge.
I don't think you are understanding what Im getting at... I stated that I like IPs when I said yes they give me "giggles"(sarcasm) , but but that in the end the gameplay is what matters for me. The underlining gameplay in a smash game is fun, as in a street fighter game, but to give another example, I love Tekken 5 and I hate Tekken 4. Same IPs, but because Steve or Law is in Tekken 4 doesn't mean I like it. I love Soul Calibur but I really dislike Soul Calibur 3. IPs are important but they don't actually make the act of playing the game more fun to me. Right now Im starting to debate even buying Crisis Core being the huge fan I am of FFVII because I've been watching gameplay videos and it doesn't interest me much. I'll still give it a try before I buy because of the IP but its going to have to attack me from a gameplay point for me to dedicate my dollars to it.PantherLotus said:^^ i'm gonna call bullshit on this one. Street Fighter, if populated with Sesame Street characters, would be disdained. I don't ever want to hear someone claiming that IPs don't matter and that only the game underneath matters. It's utter bullshit.
Webster dictionaries hold as much credibility nowadays as Funk & Wagnalls.TwinIonEngines said:Tho was good enough for Webster, it's good enough for me.
As to the IP discussion, I agree that an established IP draws in consumers, no question of that, so it has value... but if the game is shit, it has the opposite effect on the IP. Sonic has become a good example of this. At first, he was a game-selling IP... but now thanks to hideous design and "shitty friends", the brand has devolved and eroded. It still sells to some who don't know what is or isn't a "good game", but it'll never track Mario-like numbers ever again.
So quality is the great equalizer in the end.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Jirotrom said:I don't think you are understanding what Im getting at... I stated that I like IPs when I said yes they give me "giggles"(sarcasm) , but but that in the end the gameplay is what matters for me. The underlining gameplay in a smash game is fun, as in a street fighter game, but to give another example, I love Tekken 5 and I hate Tekken 4. Same IPs, but because Steve or Law is in Tekken 4 doesn't mean I like it. I love Soul Calibur but I really dislike Soul Calibur 3. IPs are important but they don't actually make the act of playing the game more fun to me. Right now Im starting to debate even buying Crisis Core being the huge fan I am of FFVII because I've been watching gameplay videos and it doesn't interest me much. I'll still give it a try before I buy because of the IP but its going to have to attack me from a gameplay point for me to dedicate my dollars to it.
so the lack of them can hurt but their inclusion doesn't necessarily help? i can agree with that completely.
Lack of IPs can hurt yes... as I know quite a few games I would have skipped on, they also can help but that varies from person to person. For me if you stick Cloud or Sephiroth in a game I'm most likely there unless the game is horrible. Another example is Kingdom Hearts... I go off and on, with that game not quite sure if I like it alot or really dislike it. Ends up its just a decent game at its core, and thats the vibe I get from Crisis Core, of course I wont know this till I play it.PantherLotus said:so the lack of them can hurt but their inclusion doesn't necessarily help? i can agree with that completely.
Anywho long story short I feel that smash is a fun game at its core, and yes the IPS help but I personally am not a huge fan of Nintendo IPs, I like Nintendo games, but the IPs arent the be all end all for me. What saddens me is I know Powerstone would have sold more if it were decorated with recognizable IPs, same goes for Rival Schools/Project justice.
Mithos Yggdrasill said:WT heck. Your number is out of this world if you mean Japan.
DBZ did about the same first week number and sold around 120k. That was when the userbase was smaller though.
Family Ski did 10k lower and looks like it will reach over 100k.
I'm not confident WE2008 can do 150k but I hope it does.
charlequin
Banned
Jirotrom said:I'm trying to tell you that shit doesn't matter to me
And I'm telling you your argument is bullshit. Art, look/feel, atmosphere, music -- these things all contribute to the enjoyment of any game; the idea that Smash would sell, or be enjoyed, nearly as much with faceless blobs or some random selection of 40 characters with no history behind them is totally laughable.
ethelred said:You tell him. The time has come to take up arms and fight back against the prescriptivist scourge.
HEY SEGATA I'M GONNA GIT YOU SUCKA
DAMN STRAIGHT I SPELLED IT "GIT"
amtentori said:I think that IPs might draw you in, but whether you stay or not depends on the quality of the game.
Smash bros is what it is today because of both of these things. if it didnt have nintendo characters no one would put enough effort into it to give the game a chance, play it enough to get good, etc.
The IPs help, no doubt, but its not what makes smash fun enough that you can play it for 5 years or more and still enjoy it.
Well said. If it was just fanwank, then the Mario Party series would have been loved by nearly everyone. It's not. There's a solid, fun game under all that fanservice. I won't say 'deep' since I don't want to go anywhere near that can of worms, but it IS a good game.
PantherLotus said:^^ i'm gonna call bullshit on this one. Street Fighter, if populated with Sesame Street characters, would be disdained. I don't ever want to hear someone claiming that IPs don't matter and that only the game underneath matters. It's utter bullshit.
This talk reminds me of the Raiden switcharoo and how well that went over.
to you it may be bullshit, to me I wouldn't care. You think everyone that plays smash loves the IPs? So all these people get no enjoyment from the core gameplay? What of all the tourney players that play smash, does the core gameplay not matter to them is it just a fanservice game to them? IPs are great but there is a core game underneath all that fluff that goes hand in hand with everything else. I never said they didn't contribute at all I said it doesn't matter to "me" I guess you know what I'm feeling because you are in my damn mind. I guess Ergheiz is a fun game because it had some final fantasy characters in it.charlequin said:And I'm telling you your argument is bullshit. Art, look/feel, atmosphere, music -- these things all contribute to the enjoyment of any game; the idea that Smash would sell, or be enjoyed, nearly as much with faceless blobs or some random selection of 40 characters with no history behind them is totally laughable.
HEY SEGATA I'M GONNA GIT YOU SUCKA
DAMN STRAIGHT I SPELLED IT "GIT"
Also...where the fuck did I say smash would sell the same?
MMV's internal R&D still mystifies me some, but I do know they have a least two core game R&D units as well as separate teams for art/animation and sound. I'd imagine at least one of those two teams is 100% focused on Harvest Moon, given the frequency of releases and series popularity... plus the game's creator is president of MMV now.charlequin said:Yep. It's huge in the West now -- I don't think you can really go through life as (say) a 13-year old girl gamer without getting sucked into Harvest Moon right now.
I don't really know the exact dev situation, but it seems to me like they've got one tiny, understaffed team churning out title after title in an attempt to milk that market, and I just don't think it's going to work out for them. Magical Melodies was a really solid effort, relatively speaking, and I think they'd do better to take that approach with the DS as well -- two titles spread across the generation, each dramatically increasing the feature set and depth of the game.
I agree that the franchise should be looked at as more of a "tentpole" series, with major releases just once or twice per generation/platform and way more effort and polish involved. The Girl and International rereleases don't bother me much, but they shouldn't used as bugfixes and really, I think sales would be better overall if their additions were there from the outset anyway. The divergent/outsourced spinoffs (like Neverland's Rune Factory or Arte Piazza's Innocent Life) seem okay though.
The real issue is that some have problems differentiating between having fanservice and being fanservice. There is a difference, and Smash Bros pretty clearly illustrates that.PantherLotus said:^^ i'm gonna call bullshit on this one. Street Fighter, if populated with Sesame Street characters, would be disdained. I don't ever want to hear someone claiming that IPs don't matter and that only the game underneath matters. It's utter bullshit.
Smash Bros is somewhat unique in that it's core concept predates the grafted on "fanwank" too, it has a solid core built around an original game design. In fact that core design is so playable and refined that it's able to draw an audience indipendant of the fanservice crowd (though obviously, there's plenty of overlap between the two) and support a thriving tourney scene (something no other fighter outside the base SF & VF molds has ever managed afaik).
Now obviously, the Nintendo influence has shaped the series to some degree (a *lot* of focus has been put on nostalgia and collection) but it's still important to note the thing has an clear appeal outside just "fanwank". It's almost like the opposite of something like Kingdom Hearts or Dissidia, both of which started on the conceptual level as IP crossovers and built their designs around that idea.
PantherLotus said:^^ i'm gonna call bullshit on this one. Street Fighter, if populated with Sesame Street characters, would be disdained. I don't ever want to hear someone claiming that IPs don't matter and that only the game underneath matters. It's utter bullshit.
I so want that game now.
Count Vs Cookie Monster - FIGHT.
I fully agree with this. I truly appreciate the series, but even if I carefully follow news about this, I've trouble to follow them sometimes. I'd welcome a lower number of iterations each generation.jarrod said:MMV's internal R&D still mystifies me some, but I do know they have a least two core game R&D units as well as separate teams for art/animation and sound. I'd imagine at least one of those two teams is 100% focused on Harvest Moon, given the frequency of releases and series popularity... plus the game's creator is president of MMV now.
I agree that the franchise should be looked at as more of a "tentpole" series, with major releases just once or twice per generation/platform and way more effort and polish involved.
Pureauthor said:There're how many Harvest Moon games?
There're how many Sekaiju no Meikyu games?
...
I'm thinking EO2 needs it more. Famitsu it is!
We always use Famitsu in the long run anyways
Only thing I'm saying about Smash Bros in here: Pureauthor's post is mostly on point...
(I'd also say that the same has happened for some of the lesser-recognized Smash Bros. characters: whether Marth and Roy had a history was mostly irrelevant since people outside Japan had no idea what that history consisted of. [Yes, I know Roy hadn't had his own game by the time of Melee's release, but he at least had the history of his series.] And there are other characters from low-visibility and/or older franchises: Ness, Lucas, Pit, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Ike...)
I think it's an oversimplification to center the argument around these two categories of positive and negative feelings. If a character one is fully indifferent toward (Sheik, for example) was ousted in favor of an original character of the equivalent archetype (fast ninja in this case), the game would remain basically the same for that person--it wouldn't "most definitely be less fun." And then there's the possibility that a character one is indifferent toward could be replaced with a character that person likes; that would actually become an improvement.
Personally I'm just about half and half on characters that I feel negatively about versus characters that I feel positively or neutrally about--less than 2% in favor of the positive/neutral category. If Smash had gone with its original Dragon King design that was going to start from the ground up and create original characters, I wouldn't be too hung up over it. I like the Street Fighter cast, after all, and the same goes for Soul Calibur, and those characters had no built-in history. I do value the soundtrack far too highly to have wanted to give that up, though, so overall I'll take what I have to--but I suspect that some people are indifferent toward even the music. To such people, I wonder if the dichotomy being set up by all sides here looks amusing.
[Edit: To be fully clear, I'm not saying Smash's selling power would be anywhere close to where it is without the Nintendo IP power behind it--I wonder if it would have even a fifth the sales--but only that, to some individuals who are admittedly outliers, it isn't a particularly relevant aspect of the game.]
Now back to actually talking about sales--which is where I'm staying.
I'm surprised the series isn't affected more considering how often new games seem to be released. But being surpassed eventually by Rune Factory would be pretty cool, actually: I think there's more untapped potential in that setting and I really want to see it drawn out.
...but it does overlook the possibility of neutral feelings, and I think most others arguing any side of this are doing the same. It's one thing to say that Street Fighter would suck with Sesame Street characters who are (presumably) disliked around here, but what if Street Fighter was populated with fighters who people had no feelings toward beforehand? ...Well, actually, it is. The SF cast built recognition through gameplay and forged their own positive that way.Pureauthor said:Unless your opinion of Nintendo characters/music/setting are in the negative zone, the game would most definitely be less fun without the Nintendo properties.
(I'd also say that the same has happened for some of the lesser-recognized Smash Bros. characters: whether Marth and Roy had a history was mostly irrelevant since people outside Japan had no idea what that history consisted of. [Yes, I know Roy hadn't had his own game by the time of Melee's release, but he at least had the history of his series.] And there are other characters from low-visibility and/or older franchises: Ness, Lucas, Pit, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Ike...)
I think it's an oversimplification to center the argument around these two categories of positive and negative feelings. If a character one is fully indifferent toward (Sheik, for example) was ousted in favor of an original character of the equivalent archetype (fast ninja in this case), the game would remain basically the same for that person--it wouldn't "most definitely be less fun." And then there's the possibility that a character one is indifferent toward could be replaced with a character that person likes; that would actually become an improvement.
Personally I'm just about half and half on characters that I feel negatively about versus characters that I feel positively or neutrally about--less than 2% in favor of the positive/neutral category. If Smash had gone with its original Dragon King design that was going to start from the ground up and create original characters, I wouldn't be too hung up over it. I like the Street Fighter cast, after all, and the same goes for Soul Calibur, and those characters had no built-in history. I do value the soundtrack far too highly to have wanted to give that up, though, so overall I'll take what I have to--but I suspect that some people are indifferent toward even the music. To such people, I wonder if the dichotomy being set up by all sides here looks amusing.
[Edit: To be fully clear, I'm not saying Smash's selling power would be anywhere close to where it is without the Nintendo IP power behind it--I wonder if it would have even a fifth the sales--but only that, to some individuals who are admittedly outliers, it isn't a particularly relevant aspect of the game.]
Now back to actually talking about sales--which is where I'm staying.
(I hope that quoted correctly.)ethelred said:It stacks up pretty well against the earlier entries overall, though it's significantly lower than last year's Harvest Moon.
Code:Mineral Town GBA 20,050 14,749 10,537 161,430 Mineral Town (Girls) GBA 10,757 - - 108,362 Colobuckle Station NDS 22,926 14,619 9,439 107,136 Colobuckle Station (G) NDS - - - 112,811 Island I Grew Up On NDS 70,980 30,360 24,925 304,348 Tree of Life Wii 18,733 7,236 - 25,969
It's also lower than Rune Factory 2's first week, which is kinda funny. Could we be seeing the spinoff transcending the mother series?
I'm surprised the series isn't affected more considering how often new games seem to be released. But being surpassed eventually by Rune Factory would be pretty cool, actually: I think there's more untapped potential in that setting and I really want to see it drawn out.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Smash Bros - Nintendo characters = Naruto PS2 fighting games.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
The Abominable Snowman said:Smash Bros - Nintendo characters = Naruto PS2 fighting games.
are they really that good? I'll try 'em out. Which one would you suggest?
The Abominable Snowman said:Smash Bros - Nintendo characters = Naruto PS2 fighting games.
No..the only relative Smash has in fighting games is Powerstone, and even they differ quite a bit
PantherLotus said:^^ i'm gonna call bullshit on this one. Street Fighter, if populated with Sesame Street characters, would be disdained. I don't ever want to hear someone claiming that IPs don't matter and that only the game underneath matters. It's utter bullshit.
I, for one, would play the crap out of Sesame Fighter.
Smash Bros really has no relative equals. It has clones (that Hudson/Konami fighter, that XBLA fighter) but nothing else like it that's even approaching being on level with it in terms of gameplay. That's somewhat unlike Street Fighter (which has KOF, GG, etc) or Virtua Fighter (Tekken, SC, etc).
I was wrong in my statement earlier that SB was the only "divergent" fighter deep enough to support a tourney scene though... I forgot the awesome Virtual On series, which had (has?) a very dedicated scene itself.
I was wrong in my statement earlier that SB was the only "divergent" fighter deep enough to support a tourney scene though... I forgot the awesome Virtual On series, which had (has?) a very dedicated scene itself.
charlequin
Banned
Jirotrom said:You think everyone that plays smash loves the IPs?
I think trying to claim the game isn't fanwank (whether it is in fact other things as well) is... pretty intense denial.
jarrod said:The Girl and International rereleases don't bother me much, but they shouldn't used as bugfixes and really, I think sales would be better overall if their additions were there from the outset anyway.
Magical Melody shipped with the option to play a boy or a girl built in, first time around; they should really just do that instead of relying on rereleases, especially if people start just waiting for the Girl version every time....
The divergent/outsourced spinoffs (like Neverland's Rune Factory or Arte Piazza's Innocent Life) seem okay though.
Neverland did a good job with Rune Factory, by almost all accounts. I think diversifying this way was a good call for them; they should do a big (I'm talking relative here) budget Rune Factory for Wii.
It's almost like the opposite of something like Kingdom Hearts or Dissidia, both of which started on the conceptual level as IP crossovers and built their designs around that idea.
Yeah.... not buying it. Ignoring Dissidia, the end result with both Kingdom Hearts and Smash is the same: any purchase that's influenced in essentially any way by the game's story, mood, appearance, etc. is being influenced by the fanwankery. Every little thing in SSBB is filled in with old Nintendo stages, obscure characters, and theme music; every spot in KH is either a Final Fantasy or Disney world.
Most people generally agree that both KH and SSBB are good games, and one certainly could enjoy either without caring about the fanwankery, but then... one can enjoy many things without caring about some aspect of them, but that aspect is still there.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
so you guys are saying that SMASH is the greatest non-fighting game of all time and the only one of its kind?
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Here's something that properly belonged a couple threads ago, so maybe someone else commented on it at the time. Going by the Famitsu software pie, the week of SSBB/DMC4 was the most home console-tilted software week in years, at 79.6% of total sales. The last time home consoles had over 70% was the week Final Fantasy XII came out, at 78.6% (78.1% of which was PS2).
Agreed... though MM undersold both versions of AWL basically everywhere I think. :/charlequin said:Magical Melody shipped with the option to play a boy or a girl built in, first time around; they should really just do that instead of relying on rereleases, especially if people start just waiting for the Girl version every time....
It may beat it in EU though thanks to the Wiimake.
Actually, RuneFactory Wii was unofficially confirmed awhile back by Wada (MMV's pres, creator of HM) iirc. Neverland's one of the most underappreciated JP devs of all time imo.charlequin said:Neverland did a good job with Rune Factory, by almost all accounts. I think diversifying this way was a good call for them; they should do a big (I'm talking relative here) budget Rune Factory for Wii.
Well, that's not exactly what I'm saying... I was just pointing out that the R&D thought process behind both were basically opposite, even if the result is similar. I'd say Smash has a more comparably innovative and complex design for it's genre though, and that's likely in part due to game design being the leading component (while KH's IP mix was it's starting point)... but yeah, that's largely subjective.charlequin said:Yeah.... not buying it. Ignoring Dissidia, the end result with both Kingdom Hearts and Smash is the same: any purchase that's influenced in essentially any way by the game's story, mood, appearance, etc. is being influenced by the fanwankery. Every little thing in SSBB is filled in with old Nintendo stages, obscure characters, and theme music; every spot in KH is either a Final Fantasy or Disney world.
Most people generally agree that both KH and SSBB are good games, and one certainly could enjoy either without caring about the fanwankery, but then... one can enjoy many things without caring about some aspect of them, but that aspect is still there.
The larger issue seems to be using the "fanwank" angle to generally discredit SSB's game design and genre legitimacy. Frankly, "fanwank" isn't why Melee's managed a thriving tournament scene and saying the game's on par with CC2's Naruto fighters is like classing Virtua Fighter with 8ing's Narutos. Honestly, I don't even like the SSB games much (being raised on Capcom & AM2's efforts, it's always been tough for me to break into other fighters) but it's not hard to see the value in it's design, depth or mechanics.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Uh, I may be the only one but I see NO relation between PS and SSB. One is free roaming, the other is 2D plane. Completely different button setup. lack of "special moves". EtcHK-47 said:No..the only relative Smash has in fighting games is Powerstone, and even they differ quite a bit
I see the Naruto games having a lot more in common, especially the 2D plane, level platforming, jumping/recovery, blocking mechanics, the way movement is handled, objects and certain powerups, and the way moves are implemented.
goldenticket
Member
great for EO2! hope we get an english version announcement soon.
family ski is still doing well.
anyone know the aprox japanese #'s for SMG
family ski is still doing well.
anyone know the aprox japanese #'s for SMG
charlequin said:Yeah.... not buying it. Ignoring Dissidia, the end result with both Kingdom Hearts and Smash is the same: any purchase that's influenced in essentially any way by the game's story, mood, appearance, etc. is being influenced by the fanwankery. Every little thing in SSBB is filled in with old Nintendo stages, obscure characters, and theme music; every spot in KH is either a Final Fantasy or Disney world.
Most people generally agree that both KH and SSBB are good games, and one certainly could enjoy either without caring about the fanwankery, but then... one can enjoy many things without caring about some aspect of them, but that aspect is still there.
Dude...it's not that difficult to understand the problem here. People are taking issue with this because the original comment about 'fanwank' was used in the pejorative sense.
Oblivion said:Dude...it's not that difficult to understand the problem here. People are taking issue with this because the original comment about 'fanwank' was used in the pejorative sense.
It was also used in the context of sales... being that this is, you know, a sales thread. You guys certainly have gone off in an entertaining tangent, though. But concerns about your game's quality and needs to defend its legitimacy seem like issues of projection.
NintendosBooger
Member
Is EO the ideal game to get if all a gamer -- like me -- cares about in his RPGs is character development, items, and grinding? Don't care for setting, graphics, art, music, etc....
ethelred said:It was also used in the context of sales... being that this is, you know, a sales thread.
But you were still making a jab at SSB.
You guys certainly have gone off in an entertaining tangent, though. But concerns about your game's quality and needs to defend its legitimacy seem like issues of projection.
Also, don't get the wrong idea. I don't mind what you said, afterall this wouldn't be the first time you make a comment like that to get a rise out of people. I actually just found it funnier how Charlequin was defending it like it was an innocuous comment, that's all.
edit: Okay, after examining the thread again, it seems it was Firestorm who started this whole thing. Ugh. :/
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
NintendosBooger said:Is EO the ideal game to get if all a gamer -- like me -- cares about in his RPGs is character development, items, and grinding? Don't care for setting, graphics, art, music, etc....
EO is the ideal game if like upgrading your characters and making maps from First-Person old-school RPG style. It's the most like an old-school wRPG that has been out in a long, long time.
Oblivion said:But you were still making a jab at SSB.
Also, don't get the wrong idea. I don't mind what you said, afterall this wouldn't be the first time you make a comment like that to get a rise out of people. I actually just found it funnier how Charlequin was defending it like it was an innocuous comment, that's all.
edit: Okay, after examining the thread again, it seems it was Firestorm who started this whole thing. Ugh. :/
Apology accepted.
BenNX74205
Member
ethelred said:Sad to see a quality original game losing out to fanwank.
This only qualifies as "context of sales" in that you said "quality original game" was outsold by "fanwank." If you can't see the pejorative nature of "fanwank" (and the implication that it is not "quality"), then more power to you.ethelred said:It was also used in the context of sales...
charlequin
Banned
jarrod said:Agreed... though MM undersold both versions of AWL basically everywhere I think. :/
Yeah, although, like, coming out at the butt-ass-end of the GC's life probably didn't help. I think they made a smart call making it a Wii game in Europe.
Actually, RuneFactory Wii was unofficially confirmed awhile back by Wada (MMV's pres, creator of HM) iirc. Neverland's one of the most underappreciated JP devs of all time imo.
Really? Awesome! I'd love to see a version that made both the ARPG aspects and the farming aspects deeper and more complex, and I think it's the sort of game that hopefully could actually do well on the Wii.
The larger issue seems to be using the "fanwank" angle to generally discredit SSB's game design and genre legitimacy.
I think the larger issue is that ethelred made fun of the game and people flipped out like it was their mother. :lol I love Smash, myself (especially when liquor is involved) but I don't really think it's VRY SRS.
Frankly, "fanwank" isn't why Melee's managed a thriving tournament scene and saying the game's on par with CC2's Naruto fighters is like classing Virtua Fighter with 8ing's Narutos.
I'd actually agree. The fan aspect (which, again, is pretty fun itself) is actually a good pairing with the gameplay; it provides the ideal excuse for a ginormous character roster and it gets the game a lot of exposure that it wouldn't otherwise have. Mario Kart is a similar case -- a series with several very strong games that probably wouldn't have gotten any traction without a blatant marketing overlay to get it in people's hands the first time.
jay said:Good to see the in group/out group stuff on this site is still alive and well.
Heavens to Betsy! Social dynamics in a large group of semi-strangers interacting about a shared interest!
Powerstone is a lot like the One Piece Grand Battle 3 for PS2. (Or was it Combat Rush?)The Abominable Snowman said:Uh, I may be the only one but I see NO relation between PS and SSB. One is free roaming, the other is 2D plane. Completely different button setup. lack of "special moves". Etc
I see the Naruto games having a lot more in common, especially the 2D plane, level platforming, jumping/recovery, blocking mechanics, the way movement is handled, objects and certain powerups, and the way moves are implemented.
The Naruto PS2 games (Narutimate Hero, not the Ninden 3D adventure games) are actually pretty good.
I'm a fan of 2D fighters, and the fighting and controls are spot-on. The frequency of reversals and kawarimi's and such makes for frantic, epic 2 player battles. Even some of my friends that don't like anime enjoyed it.
It uses the license fairly well also. (Can only speak for JPN versions)
Both games have good implementations of assisting characters, powerups, platformed/quasi-interactive elements, etc.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I didn't really like the feel of the PS2 fighters compared with the GC ones, 8ing's fighting engine just felt a little tighter to me.inner-G said:Powerstone is a lot like the One Piece Grand Battle 3 for PS2. (Or was it Combat Rush?)
The Naruto PS2 games (Narutimate Hero, not the Ninden 3D adventure games) are actually pretty good.
I'm a fan of 2D fighters, and the fighting and controls are spot-on. The frequency of reversals and kawarimi's and such makes for frantic, epic 2 player battles. Even some of my friends that don't like anime enjoyed it.
It uses the license fairly well also. (Can only speak for JPN versions)
BenNX74205 said:This only qualifies as "context of sales" in that you said "quality original game" was outsold by "fanwank." If you can't see the pejorative nature of "fanwank" (and the implication that it is not "quality"), then more power to you.
Wait, your argument is that it only qualifies as a context of sales in that I was talking about one game outselling another game in sales? Golly, I just can't think of another contextual layer to add on there.
And would you have preferred for me to have said "quality fanwank?"
Segata Sanshiro
Member
DAMN YOU AND ALL THOSE WHO ARE LIKE YOU, YOU VILE DESCRIPTIVIST!charlequin said:And I'm telling you your argument is bullshit. Art, look/feel, atmosphere, music -- these things all contribute to the enjoyment of any game; the idea that Smash would sell, or be enjoyed, nearly as much with faceless blobs or some random selection of 40 characters with no history behind them is totally laughable.
HEY SEGATA I'M GONNA GIT YOU SUCKA
DAMN STRAIGHT I SPELLED IT "GIT"
The wavebird killed it for me.XiaNaphryz said:I didn't really like the feel of the PS2 fighters compared with the GC ones, 8ing's fighting engine just felt a little tighter to me.
/Hides from N-fans
I just really like me a DualShock for fighting games, totally subjective. Plus I didn't have a boot disc for my GCN so I could only play with dub voices.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Funny thing is, the only fighters I can play fine with the GC controller are Smash and the Naruto ones. The few others I have on GC I use a stick.inner-G said:The wavebird killed it for me.
/Hides from N-fans
I just really like me a DualShock for fighting games, totally subjective. Plus I didn't have a boot disc for my GCN so I could only play with dub voices.
charlequin
Banned
Segata Sanshiro said:DAMN YOU AND ALL THOSE WHO ARE LIKE YOU, YOU VILE DESCRIPTIVIST!
IM IN UR LANGUAGE
SHAPIN ITS GRAMMAR N VOCAB THRU USAGE