They are market mismatches. Maybe too western focused, or pretty much a lack of innovaion. Nintendo is pretty much the only publisher that consistently pumps out hits. Why is it so difficult for other publishers to do that ?
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They are market mismatches. Maybe too western focused, or pretty much a lack of innovaion. Nintendo is pretty much the only publisher that consistently pumps out hits. Why is it so difficult for other publishers to do that ?
Why did Vita get secondary treatment for almost all PS4/PSV games and still sold better on it?
Laplasakos
Member
Out of the Top 20 best selling PS4 games in Japan, only 5 are exclusive to the system, the rest have a PS3 version or a Vita version or both. PS4 doesn't have all the big third party games in Japan, but it will soon have with DQXI and MHW, except if you want to count the DQ spin offs which again have PS3 and Vita versions.
So while ''PS4 has all big third party games in Japan'' may be true it can also be considered a misinformed phrase without proper context, the context here is that most of the big games like MGSV, Persona 5, DQ spin offs are available in other platforms.
Despite all this, PS4 is selling better hardware and software numbers than PS3, which brings us again to the question, what do you mean by ''unnatractive to expand the market'' because numbers prove otherwise (again if i am reading it correctly because it doesn't seem that you want to properly explain it to me).
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Better software? That'd interesting to see the stats of since almost every major japanese release has had a dramatic contraction on it's ps3 version outside of western third parties.
When you realize that PS3 was a system that ended 4th at its generation and PS3 like numbers aren't anything to celebrate about you'll understand what 'unattractive to expand the market'' means.
Well,I suppose the problem is that we're taking something like "doing better than PS3" and equating it to "expanding the market". It's not such a consequantial equation, especially considering we're comparing PS3's first three years with PS4's first three years and that, so far, the difference doesn't seem to be so pronounced that we can think this represents a relevant expansion compared to what happened in the past gen.
And that's because it's important to remind how PS3 sales at the beginning were the perfect benchmark of abject failure. The software suffered as well, between the small amount of relevant-to-Japanese's-taste releases and the hardware numbers limiting the potential for several games. 2009 was the first year when things got healthier.
Thats an interesting point and I think its because console experiences from Japanese publishers are not very different from handheld experiences. People will go for convenience if they feel the console experience doesnt add anything.
That's the main point. Handhelds >>> home consoles in Japan.
PS4 is getting the support of a lonely market leader and doesn't sell like one, apparently there is a reason and is known from years ago.
Laplasakos
Member
If you want to compare the generation of PS3 with the inclusion of portables, it's fine by me although i can't see how this is fair. For me that i compare home consoles with home consoles, PS3 came second. 10 million, surely isn't something to celebrate but given the marker conditions (because i think it's an important factor), it's not a small number.
This seems like a proper explanation that i can understand, thank you.
There is a big difference between handhelds and consoles in the west versus Japan. Western publishers invest big in consoles and create casual lesser experiences for handhelds. Japanese publishers invest big in handhelds and mobile yet offer no differentiating experience on consoles. This is a logical consequence of the market but what I am saying is that now that handhelds are declining and mobile is plateauing the only way to go up in Japan is to release quality console experiences for PS4 and Switch.
A good strategy could be
Succesful mobile game --> invest in big budget console release.
LizardKing
Member
His whole point is that PS4 isn't really what the Japanese market is looking for because what the Japanese market is looking for is portability. Which is why it's not attractive to expand the market. So it's only natural to compare consoles to handhelds because it's a discussion of what the market wants to play their games on. Even Sony's biggest and only real success since ps2 was psp.
That's the problem. This is the Japanese traditional market we're talking about, the one where the line between handhelds and home consoles has been blurred for the longest time: DS first and PSP later spawned a radical shift that has yet to be undone (and, by looking at PS4's numbers and current Switch's hype, it doesn't seem it'll happen any time soon). You can't just look at home consoles / handhelds separately, they're part of the same industry. That's also why (again) you can't just compare Wii and Switch by saying "Well, Wii was the best selling home console, and we saw how the support didn't improve as much as we hoped...": Wii may have been the best selling HOME console, but it was thr second best selling console for a while and then it became the third best selling console once PSP's resurgeance happened.
To be perfectly honest, if we go outside of the "traditional" moniker, we need to consider the mobile market as well, adopted from Japan in huge ways before everywhere else and differently than everywhere else. Also, since I remember how Aostia criticised my lacking of mobile references back when I made the follow-up post on Switch v.s. Wii - you're not wrong of course, but I didn't think it was needed to be talked about because, at the current state, it seems things have stabilised enough, i.e. we're not witnessing major audience increases anymore/shifts/changes of sorts, thus we're looking at a relationship between the mobile and the traditional market where things have settled right now. Still, I suppose I should've mentioned mobile as well back then, you're right.
Kresnik258
Member
So, going by Sohei Niikawa, president of NIS...
...Disgaea 6 will most likely be PS4/Switch.
He also wants to start a petition to get a Vita successor made.
Lol.
Laplasakos
Member
I strongly disagree comapring portables with home consoles. The radical shift you mentions only applies to japanese game development which of course translates to actual sales but in no way you can mix all portables and home consoles in the same bag with each generation. For example, Wii is the best selling console of the seventh generation, this is what you will hear from 99% of the gaming community, nobody is gonna throw DS in because it's a handheld. Seriously, i have been reading GAF and other forums for more than 10 years and first time i am seeing someone saying that PS3 ended 4th of it's generation, or Wii ended second. Home consoles and portable are different, apple and oranges. That's how i see it and i think the majority too. Because otherwise let's throw mobile too and call it the best selling gaming system ever made, since going by you saying, mobile has spawned a radical shift for gaming too.
We are back to square zero. Which are these big games from 3rd parties that aren't on PS4 and hold its potential back? Monster Hunter? You can bet that will see big decline in Japan. Is there anything else?
1st Course
Member
I don't think this is true anymore?
02./00. [PS4] Warriors Stars # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.03.30} (¥7.800) - 40.368 / NEW
06./00. [PSV] Warriors Stars # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.03.30} (¥6.800) - 17.866 / NEW
03./00. [PS4] Blue Reflection: Maboroshi ni Mau - Shoujo no Ken # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.03.30} (¥7.800) - 34.592 / NEW
08./00. [PSV] Blue Reflection: Maboroshi ni Mau - Shoujo no Ken # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.03.30} (¥6.800) - 13.850 / NEW
03./00. [PS4] Valkyria Revolution <RPG> (Sega) {2017.01.19} (¥7.990) - 38.197 / NEW
07./00. [PSV] Valkyria Revolution <RPG> (Sega) {2017.01.19} (¥6.990) - 18.219 / NEW
Danganronpa V3 sold better on the Vita but in general it seems like the PS4 version usually sell better these days.
How about looking at titles which sell >100k at least? Because I think that's where we'll see the preference of the "wider" audience.
1st Course
Member
DQ Heroes 2 is the only recent PSV/PS4 release that come to my mind and match that criteria atm. It sold better on PS4 FW
01./00. [PS4] Dragon Quest Heroes II: The Twin Kings and Prophecy's End <RPG> (Square Enix) {2016.05.27} (¥7.800) - 184.820 / NEW
02./00. [PSV] Dragon Quest Heroes II: The Twin Kings and Prophecy's End <RPG> (Square Enix) {2016.05.27} (¥6.800) - 120.664 / NEW
Laplasakos
Member
Kresnik258
Member
I'm kinda interested to see how the PS4/Vita legs are for these titles. Traditionally, PS4 versions were opening higher but selling less over time, even when the port on the handheld was shocking quality:
137./000. [PSV] Nights of Azure # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥5.800) - 49.170 / NEW (32.904 <84,75%>)
140./000. [PS4] Nights of Azure # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥6.800) - 48.147 / NEW (35.907 <88,23%>)
An effect which was kinda amplified when the port was of more decent quality:
061./000. [PSV] One Piece: Pirate Warriors 3 <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2015.03.26} (¥6.800) - 121.327 / NEW (54.308 <74,56%>)
091./000. [PS4] One Piece: Pirate Warriors 3 <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2015.03.26} (¥7.800) - 80.266 / NEW (46.693 <71,30%>)
(Although a PS3 version existed for that game).
I'd imagine the PS4 versions will start legging it better through the increased hardware sales these days, but on the flip side we were seeing more 'mainstream friendly' titles (i.e. Jikkyou 2016; Attack on Titan; Hollow Realization) selling better over time on Vita in recent months.
137./000. [PSV] Nights of Azure # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥5.800) - 49.170 / NEW (32.904 <84,75%>)
140./000. [PS4] Nights of Azure # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥6.800) - 48.147 / NEW (35.907 <88,23%>)
An effect which was kinda amplified when the port was of more decent quality:
061./000. [PSV] One Piece: Pirate Warriors 3 <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2015.03.26} (¥6.800) - 121.327 / NEW (54.308 <74,56%>)
091./000. [PS4] One Piece: Pirate Warriors 3 <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2015.03.26} (¥7.800) - 80.266 / NEW (46.693 <71,30%>)
(Although a PS3 version existed for that game).
I'd imagine the PS4 versions will start legging it better through the increased hardware sales these days, but on the flip side we were seeing more 'mainstream friendly' titles (i.e. Jikkyou 2016; Attack on Titan; Hollow Realization) selling better over time on Vita in recent months.
Apparently it was almost a PSP or Vita game:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1400514
I guess they couldn't get the budget for it since it did already flop in Japan before. The game did better in the west so that's probably how a port got greenlit to begin with.
With these specific examples does performance come into play? The difference between the two platforms is becoming more noticeable.
Latest batch of Nintendo Switchon My Nintendo Store sold out in 21mn, it seems. They do note the console was available on July 3, 4, and 6, so it looks like they have more units to ship finally.
https://twitter.com/net_syohin/status/882899216682557441
https://twitter.com/net_syohin/status/882899216682557441
I checked Bic Camera Yurakucho weekly lotteries. No clear pattern in the end but it looks shipments for that specific retailer decrease.
Week 21 (May 22 - May 28) - 93 Switch consoles => Media Create: 27.146 sales
Week 22 (May 29 - Jun 04) - 84 Switch consoles => Media Create: 23.524 sales
Week 23 (Jun 05 - Jun 11) - 83 Switch consoles => Media Create: 27.291 sales
Week 24 (Jun 12 - Jun 18) - 99 Switch consoles => Media Create: 37.709 sales
Week 25 (Jun 19 - Jun 25) - 59 Switch consoles => Media Create: 22.361 sales
Week 26 (Jun 26 - Jul 02) - 54 Switch consoles => Media Create: 25.805 sales
Week 21 (May 22 - May 28) - 93 Switch consoles => Media Create: 27.146 sales
Week 22 (May 29 - Jun 04) - 84 Switch consoles => Media Create: 23.524 sales
Week 23 (Jun 05 - Jun 11) - 83 Switch consoles => Media Create: 27.291 sales
Week 24 (Jun 12 - Jun 18) - 99 Switch consoles => Media Create: 37.709 sales
Week 25 (Jun 19 - Jun 25) - 59 Switch consoles => Media Create: 22.361 sales
Week 26 (Jun 26 - Jul 02) - 54 Switch consoles => Media Create: 25.805 sales
LordRaptor
Member
In a topic about MC / Famitsu sales numbers, which are Japan oriented and have never differentiated between "Home consoles" and "Portable Consoles" in their reportage of sales numbers, the question isn't why people following and discussing these numbers choose to use the entire data set - it is why you want to exclude significant portions of that data set.
Dengeki data is out:
http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/553/1553313/
Looks like RH Perfect Chronology has 60% sell-through. Definitely on the low end.
http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/553/1553313/
Looks like RH Perfect Chronology has 60% sell-through. Definitely on the low end.
Right, there is no inherent boundary between handheld and consoles, simply different feature sets. It would be like excluding a console because it has motion controls instead of traditional button input. It's a bit misleading to exclude a console for 'reasons'.
Ok, I don't understand the point you're trying to make in the vast majority of this post. What does it mean that we can't mix portables and home consoles in the same bag with each generation? Or better: you can make such argument with a more solid ground if we're talking about the pre-DS era, but the DS was a paradigm-changer. The announcement of DQIX for DS was another major event back in 2006: the next main installment in the biggest gaming franchise for Japan coming to a portable console. That's exactly when the two bags (using your own terms) started looking more and more like just one bag. And then the PSP saw its sales increasing thanks to MHP2nd (and MHP2nd G) bringing lots of sales and convincing more and more developers about the console's potential of selling software, thus more games announcements (with several former PS2-games/brands coming to PSP). How did this not have an impact on Wii/PS3/360's software support, especially early on. The past few years, with 3DS and PSV? Mostly the same. Only now we're starting to see a bigger amount of releases for PS4, but again, why should be ignore the platforms (well, the platform mainly
) that by far represented the healthiest piece of the cake? A piece of the cake that received relevant support from Japanese publishers and developers? What's the point in doing so?Also, what's with referencing what "the gaming community" says and extending it to what happened years go in Japan? It's true, in the West we see a bigger separation between home consoles and portable devices, and this comes from developers as well, but what does it mean that "the gaming community never referenced the DS, because it's a handheld". Yes, gaming forums may be home console-biased, and? What does it have to do with how things actually play out in the real life, especially since we're talking about Japan, where it's crystal clear how the handheld/home division is not so important for both customers and developers.
Ok, you've been reading forums for 10+ years and it's the first time you've heard PS3 was the 4th best selling console in Japan while Wii was the 2nd (then 3rd) best selling platform. And? Does that change the actual sales numbers in Japan for that generation? Does the incredible enthusiasm for Platinum Games change the fact that the vast majority of their games have failed to see respectable sales (Nier: Automata, of course, is one of the exceptions, what a great success story)?
Finally, handhelds and home consoles aren't exactly apples and oranges: certainly more in the West, since the development community has usually failed to bring major franchises to handhelds, outside of specific versions / spin-offs / etc. But this is not the case for Japan. We have lots of relevant and less relevant Japanese-focused franchises that have been released on handhelds, which is completely different from what we can usually see in the West. Also, if we really want to speak of gaming as a whole (outside of the "traditional" space), mobile can't be ignored. Like, at all.
Laplasakos
Member
Ok, I don't understand the point you're trying to make in the vast majority of this post. What does it mean that we can't mix portables and home consoles in the same bag with each generation? Or better: you can make such argument with a more solid ground if we're talking about the pre-DS era, but the DS was a paradigm-changer. The announcement of DQIX for DS was another major event back in 2006: the next main installment in the biggest gaming franchise for Japan coming to a portable console. That's exactly when the two bags (using your own terms) started looking more and more like just one bag. And then the PSP saw its sales increasing thanks to MHP2nd (and MHP2nd G) bringing lots of sales and convincing more and more developers about the console's potential of selling software, thus more games announcements (with several former PS2-games/brands coming to PSP). How did this not have an impact on Wii/PS3/360's software support, especially early on. The past few years, with 3DS and PSV? Mostly the same. Only now we're starting to see a bigger amount of releases for PS4, but again, why should be ignore the platforms (well, the platform mainly
So you are saying that pre-DS it was wise to not mix portables and consoles but after-DS it's not fine? Now that DS is no more, are we back to not mixing portables and consoles? Or is it because DS caused a big impact in software development the landscape has changed radically that the effects are still on today so it's wise to keep mixing portables and consoles? If it's the latter, then i can't agree with it because we are already seeing the effects fading, with japanese developers going to a more western focused way of thinking (worldwide success if you prefer) and the two franchises that you mentioned (DQ and MH) are back on home consoles. In the end, it's totally understandable if someone want to mix portable and hardware numbers, especially when you are talking about Japan, although i find it strange that you are changing view and comparisons based on regions or whenever you prefer, something that you are clearly doing in your post. In your first phrase in every paragraph you totally disagree with me (or not understanding my view) but right in the next you understand it and say it's totally fine doing it (meaning seperating portables and home consoles) when we are talking about west.
I think, it's clear what i mean by that the majority seperates home consoles and portable. I also disagree that gaming forums are home console biased and i don't know why you are mixing it into our discussion. Does this means that, because i like to seperate sales i am console biased? The part where i said i have been reading forums for more 10+ years was to emphasize the general consensus and not to try to seem like a sales-age genius or anything.
Last, i don't understand where Platinum falls into this, but since you mentioned it, Platinum always had respectable sales (Bayonetta, MGS Rising, Nier) when they putted their games where their audience is (meaning not WiiU).
Gotdatmoney
Member
I dont get the point of separating consoles and handhelds when the discussion os selling video games. Different hardware jas differemt form factors but money dumped into the gaming ecosystem is all that matters. The PS3 was not where the majority of gaming was done in Japan. I don't get why we would ignore the 2 systems that sold over 20 million units to insinuate that the one that sold half did well.
Even if we were talking worldwide the PSP sold like what, 10 million less than the PS3/360? The DS sold 60 million more. We aren't mixing them because?
Even if we were talking worldwide the PSP sold like what, 10 million less than the PS3/360? The DS sold 60 million more. We aren't mixing them because?
Platinum always had respectable sales lol. Now this is quite a spin lol.
I guess, Vanquish, Anarchy Reign,Madworld , and Infinite Space does not exist lol.
I mean, it is not like Bayonetta 1 had terrible sales as it is unable to hit its expectation which lead to the sequel abandon by Sega here.
I guess, Vanquish, Anarchy Reign,Madworld , and Infinite Space does not exist lol.
I mean, it is not like Bayonetta 1 had terrible sales as it is unable to hit its expectation which lead to the sequel abandon by Sega here.
Yeah I would expect more systems that week.
encephalon
Member
Are shortages expected for the whole year? I think I'll want one for Xenoblade, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to get one.
Though I'm not in a major metropolitan area.
Though I'm not in a major metropolitan area.
Judging on that Splatoon 2 Direct...absolutely.
I Stalk Alone
Member
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Platinums retail success is definitely hit or miss, but thier success rate is dramatically higher when you put them in a position where they actually have a chance to succeed.
They made awesome games with nintendo, but as wii u exclusives they had no chance. Activision wasted them on super low budget games, microsoft was trying to get a huge AAA rpg with multiplayer out of them, thats not what they do.
Give them a decent budget and put thier games on playstation/xbox/pc and they can do well.
They made awesome games with nintendo, but as wii u exclusives they had no chance. Activision wasted them on super low budget games, microsoft was trying to get a huge AAA rpg with multiplayer out of them, thats not what they do.
Give them a decent budget and put thier games on playstation/xbox/pc and they can do well.
Laplasakos
Member
I said respectable sales, not multi million worldwide groundbreaking sales. Quite a spin
Especially considering that handhelds are directly competing for Japanese development dollars and are particularly relevant to the Japanese market.
At least in Japan, they are very much relevant to each other. There's reason behind, say, DQ going PS2->DS. And that's because that's where the bulk of Japanese console consumers went, which is relevant to the PS2->PS3 sales cliff.
From publishers to retailers to customers nobody seperates home from portable consoles. If you have touch with Japanese gaming market you know that, we don't live in 2000 anymore. And all these in a year Nintendo launched a hybrid console.
I'm in the same boat. Best idea is to check the websites that keep track of stock and get one while you can.
Nintendo announced increased shipments at July and August. They didn't talk only for Splatoon and Monster Hunter launches.
I said respectable sales, not multi million worldwide groundbreaking sales. Quite a spin
Which part of Vanquish, Anarchy Reign and Madworld is respectable sales? Spin and spin nation?
Even Infinite Space is example of how when they seems to have found some kind of hit, there is not enough stock to produce which cause it to flounder in Japan.
Except for some success like MGR and recent Nier, Platinum had been famous of being the bomba Games and there is a reason for that.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Is Japan burning down stores yet
OfficerRaichu15
Member
Ftfy