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Media Create Sales: Week 9, 2013 (Feb 25 - Mar 03)

Laguna

Banned
I'd totally overlooked the PSP, so it's 11 handheld and 9 console which isn't as cool as an even split.

As for the split, I'd thought of the 10 most wanted handheld games, 6 were 3DS and 4 were Vita (because I overlooked PSP). Given the disparity in install bases and release schedules, I'm amazed the Vita can hang with the 3DS in the desirability stakes. Yet, it apparently can.

Of course, these are just 'most wanted' charts, so there's no real significance to any of this.

Like you already pointed out there is a big disparity between those to systems regarding release schedule btw. announced titles, therefore PSV owners votes are concentrated on very few titles, while 3DS users votes are divided between many games. but obviously the positioning of the titles makes clear in what market positioning both handhelds actually are.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Guys, are we seriously considering Famitsu's Most Wanted charts too? Even ******** is more reliable, seriously. :p

They consider only votes from Famitsu's readers, a quite low and very core-oriented base, so not reliable for the whole market at all.
 

BriBri

Member
You're breaking kayfabe here. I wanted to believe back in the day that Jerry Lawler was the #3 wrestler in the world;)

Seriously though, do people expect new Vita announcements (exclusives and ports) soon after the late Feb/March increase in sales/interest?
 
I can see that it could just hover above 200k, but lifetime (of course being legs dependent), I'm a bit more confident. :)

I don't know why (maybe for the reasons I said? XD), I can see it closer to 300k, but I'm no expert. :p
300k just seems really high for a SMT, only 2 games we know of managed that and they both released 18 years ago. I think best case for SMT4 would be around 250k, but that's definitely well above my own expectations.

For comparison, here's how Atlus' other 3DS games have done:

[3DS] Etrian Odyssey IV: Legends of the Titan (134,499)
[3DS] Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers (94,041)
[3DS] Devil Survivor: Overclocked (39,801)
 
Guys, are we seriously considering Famitsu's Most Wanted charts too? Even ******** is more reliable, seriously. :p

They consider only votes from Famitsu's readers, a quite low and very core-oriented base, so not reliable for the whole market at all.

Typically the No. 1 spot has 1,000~2,000 votes. So, yeah. Practically meaningless.
 
I'm surprised there are 10 handheld and 10 console games on there. I'm also surprised that the handheld split is 60/40 rather than 90/10.

Surprising.

FFX HD and GE2 showing up on PSV and not on PS3/PSP is surprising, but TLOU being on that list is the most surprising thing to me. Western games outside of GTA and COD simply don't sell in Japan. Goes to show you how unreliable the list is.
 

Road

Member
Abyss - one of biggest Tales games, released on stationary consoles
Innocence - one of weakest Tales games, released previously on handheld

sounds like totally valid comparision...

You could have a case if Namco released Vesperia for Vita and it sold 50k.

Code:
            Original    Remake Retention
Phantasia    212,000   632,000      298%
Destiny      896,000   368,000       41%
Eternia      676,000   249,000       37%
Destiny 2    763,000   135,000       18%
Rebirth      596,000    90,000       15%
Abyss        714,000   122,000       17%
Innocence    262,000    71,000       27%

Retention = Original / Remake.

I'm not sure if it Innocence not being very popular is the only reason that make Innocence R sell poorly, but it could be one of the reasons, yes.

Reminds me how they had more Wii sold than Nintendo shipped ;)

They had the same for DS last year. It's good to see their accuracy has improved over time...
 
There's nothing surprising about a Famitsu's most wanted list because it's never been even remotely accurate in painting a picture of how Japan is anticipating a title.Amazon Charts, the place that shall not be named, and Comg are about 100x more accurate. Weird how in the one place we get accurate numbers, is the one thread with the most useless barometers lol

Edit: On the bright side for SMT4, unless something changes soon in Nintendo's lineup it pretty much has the whole release slot it's in to itself.
 
300k just seems really high for a SMT, only 2 games we know of managed that and they both released 18 years ago. I think best case for SMT4 would be around 250k, but that's definitely well above my own expectations.

For comparison, here's how Atlus' other 3DS games have done:

[3DS] Etrian Odyssey IV: Legends of the Titan (134,499)
[3DS] Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers (94,041)
[3DS] Devil Survivor: Overclocked (39,801)

Yeah, Nocturne, I think, got to around 250K so that would be best case scenario for SMTIV, but that is REALLY high today and it's only the Persona games that can guarantee that figure. SMTIV would be very impressive if it can even get to 200k.

Code:
            Original    Remake Retention
Phantasia    212,000   632,000      298%
Destiny      896,000   368,000       41%
Eternia      676,000   249,000       37%
Destiny 2    763,000   135,000       18%
Rebirth      596,000    90,000       15%
Abyss        714,000   122,000       17%
Innocence    262,000    71,000       27%

Retention = Original / Remake.

I'm not sure if it Innocence not being very popular is the only reason that make Innocence R sell poorly, but it could be one of the reasons, yes.
It would be important to note that only Phantasia, Destiny and Innocence are actual remakes. The others are all ports.
 
Code:
            Original    Remake Retention
Phantasia    212,000   632,000      298%
Destiny      896,000   368,000       41%
Eternia      676,000   249,000       37%
Destiny 2    763,000   135,000       18%
Rebirth      596,000    90,000       15%
Abyss        714,000   122,000       17%
Innocence    262,000    71,000       27%

Retention = Original / Remake.

I'm not sure if it Innocence not being very popular is the only reason that make Innocence R sell poorly, but it could be one of the reasons, yes.
Most of the games on that list are ports rather than remakes. The only Tales remakes afaik are Phantasia (PS1), Destiny (PS2), Phantasia: Narikiri Dungeon (PSP) and Innocence (PSV). And soon Hearts (PSV).

edit: beat!
 

Nekki

Member
Ah, goalposts twitching I see.

150k would be amazing for a new IP on a supposedly doomed handheld. The final Layton outing would look upon it glumly despite being on "beast mode" 3DS.

Not comitting to it doing 150k though. Seems a bit too optimistic.

It would be quite good yes. But let's not forget, it's a new IP in what is right now Japan's favourite game genre, from a well known developer and with a very big backup from Sony. So in the end it wouldn't be AS surprising. Selling software is all good and always a plus, but I wonder how many Vita units this game will shift.

And Layton's situation has nothing to do with the 3DS.
 
Code:
            Original    Remake Retention
Phantasia    212,000   632,000      298%
Destiny      896,000   368,000       41%
Eternia      676,000   249,000       37%
Destiny 2    763,000   135,000       18%
Rebirth      596,000    90,000       15%
Abyss        714,000   122,000       17%
Innocence    262,000    71,000       27%

Retention = Original / Remake.

I'm not sure if it Innocence not being very popular is the only reason that make Innocence R sell poorly, but it could be one of the reasons, yes.

Thanks.

Between:

low quality of original
low sales of original version
low production value of remake
questionable shift of 2d to 3d
low vita userbase

I don't think 70k is that bad of a result ;)
 
Thanks.

Between:

low quality of original
low sales of original version
low production value of remake
questionable shift of 2d to 3d
low vita userbase

I don't think 70k is that bad of a result ;)
For a full remake, 70k is pitiful regardless. The game looked essentially PSP level anyway, they should've released it there instead and at least broken 100k.

Also, Innocence was always 3D. You're thinking Hearts.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
While not very specific, we did have a few more developers assert they're going to be making PS4 games:

GamesIndustry.biz said:
"As has been announced, Grasshopper Manufacture will make games for PS4, as will (parent company) GungHo Online Entertainment and (sister company) Acquire. I can't go into detail at this stage, but for sure the new challenge is exciting," he added.

"During PlayStation Meeting 2013, Sony showed such a strong vision. Now we have to decide how to find our own victories within that and present games that express the Grasshopper world. And that makes me horny again."
Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-11-suda51-excited-by-playstation-4-possibilities

I presume by "as has been announced" he's referring to the list, but uh, since we know how lists go, I felt this was relevant.
 

randomkid

Member
All Megaten that sold over 200k since the 32bit gen on:

[PS1] Persona (391,566)
[SAT] Devil Summoner [355,656]
[PS2] Persona 4 (294,214)
[PS1] Persona 2: Innocent Sin (274,804)
[GBC] Devil Children: Black Book / Red Book (261,185)
[SAT] Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers (258,679)
[PS2] Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne (245,520)
[PSV] Persona 4 Golden (233,523)
[PS2] Persona 3 (210,319)
[PSP] Persona 3 Portable (208,877)
[PS1] Persona 2: Eternal Punishment (200,103)


I think SMT4 will just barely pass 200k.

I've said this before but it's interesting to me that with all the talk of the modern Persona brand being such a "phenomenon" that the new games haven't actually come close to outselling the original. There's no doubt that people are more interested in new Persona these days but it's still interesting that a chunk of the original fanbase has basically disappeared. The PSX era really was a heady time for non-blockbuster RPGs, I wonder where all those fans went.

Also really wish we had an inkling what Famicom and Super Famicom era sales were like, to see if Persona 1 is actually the franchise best.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
It is in number 1 at Tsutaya Ranking which is mostly accurate sooo i think it will have a good opening.I for once didn't expect it to pass Hatsune Miku PS3 but now it seems likely.

For Tsutaya being accurate you must know if Soul Sacrifice had special promotions or not at the specific stores.

Comgnet, Tsutaya, vgc, Famitsu most wanted. I think we covered every irrelevant point in this thread.
 
I've said this before but it's interesting to me that with all the talk of the modern Persona brand being such a "phenomenon" that the new games haven't actually come close to outselling the original. There's no doubt that people are more interested in new Persona these days but it's still interesting that a chunk of the original fanbase has basically disappeared. The PSX era really was a heady time for non-blockbuster RPGs, I wonder where all those fans went.

Also really wish we had an inkling what Famicom and Super Famicom era sales were like, to see if Persona 1 is actually the franchise best.

I don't think you can talk of fanbase when it comes to the first Persona. It succeeded because it was on an healthy platform for jRPG, where several titles of the genre sold more than one million units, many of them sold over 500k units.

It is true that no recent Persona sold as much as the first entry, but you can clearly see how there does exist a fanbase nowadays, that allows a fighting game to be one of the best selling titles of the genres, that allows porting and ri-edition to sell almost as the original entries, etc.
 

hiska-kun

Member
For Tsutaya being accurate you must know if Soul Sacrifice had special promotions or not at the specific stores.

Comgnet, Tsutaya, vgc, Famitsu most wanted. I think we covered every irrelevant point in this thread.

No, we haven't yet. According to this blog, Vita Hardware sold 1.5 comparing to last week (in this store).

先週の本体実績はその前の週の1.5倍、本当に「Vita」が元気になりました。

http://gamesmaya.blog98.fc2.com/

Now we're complete.
 

Skyzard

Banned
No, we haven't yet. According to this blog, Vita Hardware sold 1.5 comparing to last week (in this store).

先週の本体実績はその前の週の1.5倍、本当に「Vita」が元気になりました。

http://gamesmaya.blog98.fc2.com/

Now we're complete.

1.5x last weeks? :O) one store but still I have a feeling it won't be too bad really.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
No, we haven't yet. According to this blog, Vita Hardware sold 1.5 comparing to last week (in this store).

先週の本体実績はその前の週の1.5倍、本当に「Vita」が元気になりました。

http://gamesmaya.blog98.fc2.com/

Now we're complete.


Wow, looks like I might be eating some crow on Wednesday!
 

Usobuko

Banned
While not very specific, we did have a few more developers assert they're going to be making PS4 games:


Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-11-suda51-excited-by-playstation-4-possibilities

I presume by "as has been announced" he's referring to the list, but uh, since we know how lists go, I felt this was relevant.

Sony needs it. Nothing that was shown in that conference that give any indication that Japan will eat it up. Perhaps Knack, due to its aesthetics, since Disney/Pixar films usually have a faithful following there. Sony would probably held a proper conference showing Japanese-centric games before PS4 launch.

Ironically, the lack of Wii U success in the West probably means Metal Gear, FF, Fighting games etc. will be staying on PS4.
 
For Tsutaya being accurate you must know if Soul Sacrifice had special promotions or not at the specific stores.

Comgnet, Tsutaya, vgc, Famitsu most wanted. I think we covered every irrelevant point in this thread.

Tsutaya Shibuya had a big promotion for SS, many posters all around the shop, a corner with tv showing some rolling demos, copies of the game on it, Vita bundle information and so on, and 2 demostations with around 10 people were testing the game on launch day (i was there around 17.30)
I remember some gaffer posted some pictures last week.

But i think that was a promotion like other you can see elsewhere when a game is released, so nothing exceptional in my opinion
 

BlackJace

Member
No, we haven't yet. According to this blog, Vita Hardware sold 1.5 comparing to last week (in this store).

先週の本体実績はその前の週の1.5倍、本当に「Vita」が元気になりました。

http://gamesmaya.blog98.fc2.com/

Now we're complete.

1.5 more or 1.5 less?
 

Takao

Banned
Sony needs it. Nothing that was shown in that conference that give any indication that Japan will eat it up. Perhaps Knack, due to its aesthetics, since Disney/Pixar films usually have a faithful following there. Sony would probably held a proper conference showing Japanese-centric games before PS4 launch.

Ironically, the lack of Wii U success in the West probably means Metal Gear, FF, Fighting games etc. will be staying on PS4.

RIP Deep Down
 
My bad for leaving that out, then again, I don't think it's ready for the launch.

Still plenty of time to announce things though, there are games we 100% know are coming this holiday that haven't properly been announced yet like COD,Fifa 14,BF4 etc.

I think in general Japanese pubs have shorter lead times between announce and release than western pubs too. Sqaure Enix seems to be pretty bad at this both for their Japanese and western stuff though, Tomb Raider was first shown off almost 2 years ago.

I would expect to see some of the stuff that is big in the west get a focus at E3, MGS and FF for sure and perhaps a Capcom fighting game. If Soul Caliber isn't dead we might see or hear something from that in the near future i would hope.
 

lupin23rd

Member
Ironically, the lack of Wii U success in the West probably means Metal Gear, FF, Fighting games etc. will be staying on PS4.

Do you think mainline FF, Metal Gear, etc.. would be coming to Wii U even if it was selling gangbusters? I think those teams are firmly in the "can't wait to show you what we can do with 8GB of RAM" camp.
 

Usobuko

Banned
Do you think mainline FF, Metal Gear, etc.. would be coming to Wii U even if it was selling gangbusters? I think those teams are firmly in the "can't wait to show you what we can do with 8GB of RAM" camp.

Wii U might have a shot if the next xbox and PS4 tank horribly as well. What I meant was the western sales of Wii U strongly cemented the notion that these franchises will appear on PS4. Not disagreeing with those teams are waiting for new consoles to give these franchise a facelift either.
 

Terrell

Member
Ironically, the lack of Wii U success in the West probably means Metal Gear, FF, Fighting games etc. will be staying on PS4.

2 things:

1) Final Fantasy will go where it goes irrespective of the Western market, as Square Enix knows that at this point, if there's still fans of the franchise left in the Americas and Europe, they'd follow it ANYWHERE, even to iOS, if required.

2) Is there any further for fighting games to go, really, except some extra polygons on the character models and better textures? The vast majority of them have decided to fall into the UNrealistic 3D arena, and there's only so much benefit that modern technology offers that.

And also: Ono will not allow Tekken to be on a platform unchallenged.
 
Ironically, the lack of Wii U success in the West probably means Metal Gear, FF, Fighting games etc. will be staying on PS4.
While I don't really disagree, at the same time I sort of wonder why all those franchises were on PSP if western sales matter so much as to dictate their destination. Same deal for Kingdom Hearts, Ace Combat, etc.
 

AntMurda

Member
While I don't really disagree, at the same time I sort of wonder why all those franchises were on PSP if western sales matter so much as to dictate their destination. Same deal for Kingdom Hearts, Ace Combat, etc.

I would believe the general stereotype is.

DS --- Children / Female / Old casual farts
PSP ---- Teen / Young Adult / Dude Bro / Emo Otakus

Humorous generalization. But the demographic breakdown for publishers and creators were probably something like that.
 
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