Riky
$MSFT
Because you know I never said thatNot make search in your post history, I have no time to waste. You said tons of absurdity around the ps5 hardware you don't even remind
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Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition Q&A: ‘Next-Gen Consoles Are Much More Powerful Than We First Thought’
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Game Dev
Frankly I'm ok with the XSX and PS5 floating around the 1080p mark in demanding scenes in this game. Resolution matters if I can have it but not at the expense of everything else. They at least tried to move the needle in terms of visuals with raytraced GI and lighting . I've always said I actually wouldn't mind 1080p games pushing amazing visuals :
Xbox Series X developer: Lockhart not holding back Series X at all
Notice the antennas? All that comparison validates is that dlss might be better than 4k with some crappy temporal anti aliasing ruining PQ.
The issue I have are with people who need to make excuses for the XSS. Whether that is blaming devs if they voice some opinion of it or if their game performs poorly in comparison as expected on it. The XSS is just a budget low powered machine why blame shift and praise it? All the while flip flopping on their views about PS5s power differences and how huge they are.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
I want you, right now, to list me consumer ready PC parts, including a case to put it in, for £250
Lets see what you can do.
assurdum
Banned
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/next-gen-ps5-xsx-ot-console-tech-thread.1480978/post-262010705Because you know I never said that
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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
Man you're still at it You look so desperate trying to convince people you're a neutral that it's working against you Maybe people would believe him if his nick was LightMage :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Yeah, you're full of shit riky.
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dcmk7
Banned
This what you mean?Not make search in your post history, I have no time to waste. You said tons of absurdity around the ps5 hardware you don't even remind
Or this one?
He is not exactly a prophet is he? Just a terrible troll.
EDIT: Man I'm well, well too late with this.
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For future projects why not but if your game/project is a past gen game where you have no issues with the amount of geometry on screen what do you gain? It's not needed. It's just the usual excuse by xbox fans as if mesh shaders would somehow increase the resolution or decrease memory usage of the game when it is not limted by it (they say they have their own software based geometry pipeline). The GPU on the XSS is just weak especially with the raytracing in the game which is why you get that low performance. It really is that simple. Why blame shift to the dev when it comes to the XSS?The rest of my post still stands
assurdum
Banned
He repeated it constantly. He doesn't even remind what he said about ps5
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Riky
$MSFT
So I never said what you claimed and never said "terrible" at all, every machine has a limiting factor somewhere and PS5 is no different.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
You have made the same 'mistake' as many of the Sony fans here with regard to the 'experience' XSS would bring. First off MS NEVER said the XSS would have identical performance other than resolution. Graphics were always something that was going to be compromised on the XSS. It is disingenuous to state otherwise. For the record that experience always related to features. Quick resume, fps boost, and 60 fps are some examples of the same features across the board. The biggest hog of memory will always be texture data and the XSS needs less of that data than the XSX or PS5. If SFS and VA are used it will significantly improve memory efficiency. It is on MS to ensure those features are available for developers to use and on developers to use them.Those features were designed for the XSX too, you are discovering that XSX and PS5’s jump from 8 GB (12 in the case of XOX to XSX) to 16 GB of RAM was epically small and need to compensate while you are selling that it will help close the gap between XSS and XSX.
We went from XSS has the same experience at 1440p to same experience at 1080p to redefining that same does not mean actually the same but you can change framerate, remove raytracing or other features, reduce draw distance, have more pop-in, etc… at a lower resolution because hey it is cheaper (then smart delivery forcing you to download XSX and XSS versions of the game making the game bigger than on PS5, according to Xbox fans not PS5 fanboys…). There is nothing that cannot be redefined to make XSS look great…
Apparently a $349 digital only 512 GB XSX would have been impossibly high priced, not have helped the ecosystem, and a bad value compared to the much much lower specced $299 XSS….
Your comments about your personal feelings about the XSS are largely irrelevant because everyone is different. Just because you don't want a lower resolution Xbox doesn't mean no one on earth does. The system will always be cheaper to produce and sell and that is the whole point. The XSX SOC is already the most expensive SOC, with the worst yields. Only making that version of the system would mean even fewer Xbox consoles out there and fewer potential customers especially in developing countries like India. Ultimately that would mean less Game pass subs and MS wants more subs not to go toe to toe with Sony in a myopic battle to sell only game consoles.
MS had bigger plans to reach a larger audience and more XSXs isn't the way to reach non enthusiasts who have limited funds. I'm happy that you are flush with cash but not everyone is in your shoes and has your unlimited disposable income. Combine that with the fact that Xbox has less mind share than Sony and it makes perfect sense for MS to do whatever they can to move XSS to an impulse buy. It is funny though to see people make fun of MS for not making any money with Xbox and see you suggest a $350 XSX which would come dangerously close to dumping territory. Sony and MS shareholders might not appreciate that move.
Unless you are looking for specific examples of 'poor' performance the XSS has provided outstanding outcomes for its price point. Can you provide ANY examples of a PC or console that has outperformed the XSS for LESS money? This is a $300 console that has raytracing, I can't think of a video card alone that offers that. There are more expensive consoles that don't have the same number of 120 fps titles as the XSS or offer emulation at all yet against all logical data some people continue to make up unrealistic imaginary standards to knock the least costly device this generation. People attack the XSS for not always hitting 1440p when the PS5 and XSX don't always hit 4K (thanks
THE DUCK
). People complain about its storage when again unlike other more expensive consoles it had working external AND internal memory storage options at launch. These complaints would make more sense if this device was the MOST expensive not the cheapest. I have a feeling of these comments more of a personal issue with MS as a company than the XSS as a budget console. Why are third parties held up as the standard for what the XSS can do and not MS? How have MS games ran on this 'horrible' console? Gears Hivebusters came out last year did it run at 500p? Forza 4 was updated for the XSS how did it perform? What about the multitude of games where the XSS outperformed the X1X, last gens best and most expensive console? I have a feeling that MS will release more games for their console and if we were seriously judging its performance we'd look at MS published games. MS Flight Simulator is coming out next month. If that game runs at a constant 500p with tons of frame drops or is utterly unplayable we may finally have a title proving the XSS is not up to the task for this generation. I'm looking forward to seeing the results.
You have no credibility sir. You have never made a cogent argument against the XSS and I doubt you ever will. Them being fully aware of SFS and not using it doesn't mean anything. How would they know what it would offer them if they aren't even using the tech? This game wouldn't be a good gage of anything in the future seeing how it was built around an older graphics pipeline.
Weren't you the guy arguing that MS would not release any games that are graphically impressive? And you are talking about acting foolish? I swear some people here completely lack self awareness. I'll just say that software graphic features are more CPU intensive than hardware ones. SFS will do much more than save some CPU cycles seeing how it's whole purpose is to improve memory usage.
Superayate
Member
Always the same fight around the XsS 
Superayate
Member
Just for information (don't want to be real part of XsS fight) but that's not what said one dev for exemple regarding the XsS to be honest, saying that when the cross gen period will be finished, that will be better for the XsS. That was remedy dev.
dcmk7
Banned
You have made the same 'mistake' as many of the Sony fans here with regard to the 'experience' XSS would bring. First off MS NEVER said the XSS would have identical performance other than resolution. Graphics were always something that was going to be compromised on the XSS. It is disingenuous to state otherwise. For the record that experience always related to features. Quick resume, fps boost, and 60 fps are some examples of the same features across the board. The biggest hog of memory will always be texture data and the XSS needs less of that data than the XSX or PS5. If SFS and VA are used it will significantly improve memory efficiency. It is on MS to ensure those features are available for developers to use and on developers to use them.
Your comments about your personal feelings about the XSS are largely irrelevant because everyone is different. Just because you don't want a lower resolution Xbox doesn't mean no one on earth does. The system will always be cheaper to produce and sell and that is the whole point. The XSX SOC is already the most expensive SOC, with the worst yields. Only making that version of the system would mean even fewer Xbox consoles out there and fewer potential customers especially in developing countries like India. Ultimately that would mean less Game pass subs and MS wants more subs not to go toe to toe with Sony in a myopic battle to sell only game consoles.
MS had bigger plans to reach a larger audience and more XSXs isn't the way to reach non enthusiasts who have limited funds. I'm happy that you are flush with cash but not everyone is in your shoes and has your unlimited disposable income. Combine that with the fact that Xbox has less mind share than Sony and it makes perfect sense for MS to do whatever they can to move XSS to an impulse buy. It is funny though to see people make fun of MS for not making any money with Xbox and see you suggest a $350 XSX which would come dangerously close to dumping territory. Sony and MS shareholders might not appreciate that move.
Unless you are looking for specific examples of 'poor' performance the XSS has provided outstanding outcomes for its price point. Can you provide ANY examples of a PC or console that has outperformed the XSS for LESS money? This is a $300 console that has raytracing, I can't think of a video card alone that offers that. There are more expensive consoles that don't have the same number of 120 fps titles as the XSS or offer emulation at all yet against all logical data some people continue to make up unrealistic imaginary standards to knock the least costly device this generation. People attack the XSS for not always hitting 1440p when the PS5 and XSX don't always hit 4K (thanks
Why are third parties held up as the standard for what the XSS can do and not MS? How have MS games ran on this 'horrible' console? Gears Hivebusters came out last year did it run at 500p? Forza 4 was updated for the XSS how did it perform? What about the multitude of games where the XSS outperformed the X1X, last gens best and most expensive console? I have a feeling that MS will release more games for their console and if we were seriously judging its performance we'd look at MS published games. MS Flight Simulator is coming out next month. If that game runs at a constant 500p with tons of frame drops or is utterly unplayable we may finally have a title proving the XSS is not up to the task for this generation. I'm looking forward to seeing the results.
You have no credibility sir. You have never made a cogent argument against the XSS and I doubt you ever will. Them being fully aware of SFS and not using it doesn't mean anything. How would they know what it would offer them if they aren't even using the tech? This game wouldn't be a good gage of anything in the future seeing how it was built around an older graphics pipeline.
Weren't you the guy arguing that MS would not release any games that are graphically impressive? And you are talking about acting foolish? I swear some people here completely lack self awareness. I'll just say that software graphic features are more CPU intensive than hardware ones. SFS will do much more than save some CPU cycles seeing how it's whole purpose is to improve memory usage.
My argument is based purely on facts bud.
Coming from you that I have no credibility is hilarious.. since you have been caught lying multiple times and you criticise developers even calling them lazy. Where is your credibility exactly?
How about keep the arguments to facts.. and actually on topic.
You talk about price and performance.. the price to Terraflops of the XSS pales in comparison to PS5 DE. That's the true value for money. And it's capable of uncompromised games and no 540p figures in sight.
The CFO has been interested in SFS for years, he knows about it. Yet despite this he still made his prediction.
It's almost like an expert knows what he's talking about.
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Romulus
Member
Are there any side by sides that really show the difference? I watched the df vid and everything looked so similar to me.
Nobody is saying the XSS isn't cheap but when you start trying to call out devs rather than the limited hardware when its weaker GPU is doing exactly what it is capable of I will call out your and Riky's bullshit defense of it. SFS saves memory usage if you don't already have a software based method like say granite. There is more than one way to skin a cat.You have made the same 'mistake' as many of the Sony fans here with regard to the 'experience' XSS would bring. First off MS NEVER said the XSS would have identical performance other than resolution. Graphics were always something that was going to be compromised on the XSS. It is disingenuous to state otherwise. For the record that experience always related to features. Quick resume, fps boost, and 60 fps are some examples of the same features across the board. The biggest hog of memory will always be texture data and the XSS needs less of that data than the XSX or PS5. If SFS and VA are used it will significantly improve memory efficiency. It is on MS to ensure those features are available for developers to use and on developers to use them.
Your comments about your personal feelings about the XSS are largely irrelevant because everyone is different. Just because you don't want a lower resolution Xbox doesn't mean no one on earth does. The system will always be cheaper to produce and sell and that is the whole point. The XSX SOC is already the most expensive SOC, with the worst yields. Only making that version of the system would mean even fewer Xbox consoles out there and fewer potential customers especially in developing countries like India. Ultimately that would mean less Game pass subs and MS wants more subs not to go toe to toe with Sony in a myopic battle to sell only game consoles.
MS had bigger plans to reach a larger audience and more XSXs isn't the way to reach non enthusiasts who have limited funds. I'm happy that you are flush with cash but not everyone is in your shoes and has your unlimited disposable income. Combine that with the fact that Xbox has less mind share than Sony and it makes perfect sense for MS to do whatever they can to move XSS to an impulse buy. It is funny though to see people make fun of MS for not making any money with Xbox and see you suggest a $350 XSX which would come dangerously close to dumping territory. Sony and MS shareholders might not appreciate that move.
Unless you are looking for specific examples of 'poor' performance the XSS has provided outstanding outcomes for its price point. Can you provide ANY examples of a PC or console that has outperformed the XSS for LESS money? This is a $300 console that has raytracing, I can't think of a video card alone that offers that. There are more expensive consoles that don't have the same number of 120 fps titles as the XSS or offer emulation at all yet against all logical data some people continue to make up unrealistic imaginary standards to knock the least costly device this generation. People attack the XSS for not always hitting 1440p when the PS5 and XSX don't always hit 4K (thanks
Why are third parties held up as the standard for what the XSS can do and not MS? How have MS games ran on this 'horrible' console? Gears Hivebusters came out last year did it run at 500p? Forza 4 was updated for the XSS how did it perform? What about the multitude of games where the XSS outperformed the X1X, last gens best and most expensive console? I have a feeling that MS will release more games for their console and if we were seriously judging its performance we'd look at MS published games. MS Flight Simulator is coming out next month. If that game runs at a constant 500p with tons of frame drops or is utterly unplayable we may finally have a title proving the XSS is not up to the task for this generation. I'm looking forward to seeing the results.
You have no credibility sir. You have never made a cogent argument against the XSS and I doubt you ever will. Them being fully aware of SFS and not using it doesn't mean anything. How would they know what it would offer them if they aren't even using the tech? This game wouldn't be a good gage of anything in the future seeing how it was built around an older graphics pipeline.
Weren't you the guy arguing that MS would not release any games that are graphically impressive? And you are talking about acting foolish? I swear some people here completely lack self awareness. I'll just say that software graphic features are more CPU intensive than hardware ones. SFS will do much more than save some CPU cycles seeing how it's whole purpose is to improve memory usage.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
You keep saying I'm lying, you have any proof of that? Show one post where I called anyone lazy dude. Haha teraflops to performance? What normal person goes to the store and asks which console has the best flops to performance? The PS5 DE is not a better deal since it's MORE expensive and offers LESS features. You also talk about uncompromised performance and in Metro PS5 runs at less than 1080p, that is the definition of compromise especially for a higher price. Funny how you don't have any complaints about that. Shows again you have no cogent argument against the XSS.
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
Sony fans ran him off and anyone else who doesn't praise Sony.
dcmk7
Banned
You keep saying how great price it is for the hardware. Well it isn't is it when use that ratio.
Or DF recent analysts.
Not to mention need an expansion card to extend the small hard drive to a useful size.
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dcmk7
Banned
No.
Another lie. Ugly habit from you it was the Xbox crowd.
Like I said before bud, you lie constantly and just aren't credible, I don't understand quite why you do it.
That desperate for Sony to look bad. Would go to those extremes. Lying isn't a good look though.. that's not the answer.
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
A post from John about early Xbox Series performance complaints is the reason why he was ran off years ago by Sony fans? My goodness dude you are really reaching. I do like your personal attacks and lack of any actual data but that is typical.
In the end the PS5 DE is not a good alternative to the XSS and that is based on features and price. To attack the small size of its expandable storage is funny when the more expensive console can't do it at all is more bad comedy. There is no need for mental gymnastics or hoop jumping it is a simple fact. Also you have no answer to the compromised performance of the PS5 in Metro which is typical of Sony fans who are not capable of criticising that company. What ever makes you feel better and apparently that is inventing crap about the XSS. It's pretty sad dude.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Since you don't know what you are talking about I'll drop this line of discussion. On topic the XSS has plenty of power left for this generation of games and I'm looking forward to seeing that bare out with MS Flight Simulator next month.
dcmk7
Banned
Disappointing.. I wondered what lie and act of revisionism you were going to tell next.
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Kenpachii
Member
DF video.
assurdum
Banned
Not only machine has limiting factor it seems. You can't even admit when you pissed out of the vase.
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Stuart360
Member
Look at Johns post history, its there for all to see. That post you posted was nearly 6 months after he was ran off the forum by Sony fans over the whole Gears 5 crap.
I was here when it was happening, and it was not nice to see.
Check his post history and look at all the prior posts, you will see the disgusting shit he had from the Sony faithful here.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Nobody blamed the devs. It's just that with the use of all next gen features they will be able to get more performance out of the little beast.
MasterCornholio
Member
You said serious though.
Edit: What's interesting is that serious and terrible are interchanged with each other in many dictionaries. Even some consider them synonyms.
So effectively you were calling that the 36CUs is a really bad limitation for the PS5. Doesn't matter if you used serious or terrible that's what you meant.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
Difference is there like any game at 1080p vs 4k. But overall experience is great on all consoles. Enjoyable on Series S.
But enjoying things is not the point of console war. It's about taking a bigger dump than the other dude.
MasterCornholio
Member
vaibhavpisal
Member
Cannot start a thread with his video.
MasterCornholio
Member
That's fine I thought you didn't know. But the admins might deal with someone that's trying to push it. I haven't seen that happened yet but I wouldn't risk posting that source to often.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
What haven't they banned that King trash gaming guy's videos. Or he just ain't relevant enough?
Negotiator101
Member
Microsoft need to update their tools (6 7 months in and powerful features are still not being used), it's obvious now that they are still way behind where they should be and it's holding back games on both systems currently, not good enough Phil.
Stuart360
Member
Unless the rules have changed, i'm pretty sure its againt the rules to promote your own Youtube vids on here.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Sounds about right, and no one in their right mind would post his shit here. Maybe the mods haven't noticed his cringe videos yet.
MasterCornholio
Member
Well people that try to promote their channels here usually get banned. I guess nobody talked to a mod about it yet.
dcmk7
Banned
D dark10x explicitly pointed out that Xbox fans were even sending stuff to his house, that's what it ascended too. It's truly disgusting behaviour.
Just over some bad comparisons.
What is wrong with fanboys, I will never get it, and yes, I'm taking about both sides, if he has experienced abuse from Sony fans in the past that wouldn't surprise me and should be called out too.
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Did they? This lines up with their Insomniac interview where the devs there also stated the same, on their side they stated there's more to get out of the SSD than they were able to with Ratchet & Clank and there's some untapped power still.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
It's a last gen game ported to current gen with raytracing so it's not using the full capabilities of current gen consoles.
I mean if you look at Ratchet and Clank PS5 there's significantly more detail in that game compared to previous gen, plus you get raytracing and 60fps .
Romulus
Member
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Wait who's John?! No one mentioned John! It was quite obvious with the way Sony fans are around here who ran him off. The only revisionist history is that it was somehow the tiny minority of Xbox people were anywhere near the presence of the Sony guys.
MS needs to ensure that their development kit is mature but this particular title is a poor example seeing how it was developed way before the XSS was a thing. Again I am really looking forward to see how Flight Simulator is handled on the XSS. The thing is that when a game runs well on the XSS the detractors all disappear only to reappear when they can find a game that suits their narrative. It's quite amazing.
Captain Toad
Banned
Did they? I doubt they said that during their Ratchet and Clank analysis.
dcmk7
Banned
Doesn't mention Sony.. in his final post. Some insane Xbox fanboys even sending stuff to his house.
Appalling behaviour.
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abel empire
Banned
Not really it only has raytraced gi
It isnt new its just enhanced virtual texturing theres nothing new here. Its decades old technology has hadbeen countless names in the past decades, tiled resources, sampler feedback, sampler feedback streaming, mega textures its all virtual texturing just give it a break, its in rage x360, doom 2016 removed from doom eternal engine, its in far cry 4 and almost all open world games. Its just another buzzword to keep you fanatics chatting.
abel empire
Banned
I believe microsoft are masters of marketing and confusion, sampler feedback has been in hardware on amd gpu's for years infact it was on ps4 in hardware aswell, being in hardware just helps the software process and the process is called virtual texturing, it was called mega textures in x360 days on games like rage,
Was well advertised by microsoft during xbox one events and direct x 12 as the new holy grail that will save graphics back in 2014 memory under the name tiled resources.
And now its back again with another name "sampler feedback streaming"
This is all palavar its an excuse for the slower io they have on series consoles compared to ps5 to try and convince people that its some sort of new tech thatll rival the io on ps5 which is all fraud, infact they copied the ps4 simply put the ps4 had hardware decompression and sampler feedback in hardware so microsoft must have copied that n thought sony would have gone the same route. but sony went a whole new paradigm. So for your own sake just dont be fooled by sfs it isnt new your only hope is if decompression and direct storage works as advertised.
Heres ps4's hardware decompression
And hardware virtual texturing done on ps4 a decade ago. So basically xbox copied ps4s approach testament to cernys intellect but cerny cooked different magic on ps5.
