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[vitacola]

You're right, if someone like @repi from DICE commented on this it would have been far more notable but still as a designer he must know the limits what he can or can't do on a hardware in general, see the content of the tweet about player count etc.

Well, pretty much every passionate gamer knows a bit about the technical facts and limitations of hardware. CPU power being proportional to physics, players on a map and AI should be common knowledge around here. So, yeah I could have tweeted this too, the buzz about it would have been non existing though

 

[kurosawa]

Nintendo made a console enough to run this-gen games and they didn't worry about next-gen that starts only next year and at a cost to devs.

Problem is Nintendo knows its hardware and develops games specificaly for it, so they won't have a problem; third-parties want their games ported with the less work=costs possible, so tweaking their games for this specific console are time and cost-consumers (see EA for example).

In this sense, and if Nintendo really wanted 3rd party to jump in from the start, than they should have made a more powerful console to deal with the ports... my view is that they don't really care about it as long as they keep selling their 1st party games. And they still make some of the best games every generation.

 

[Verendus]

I dnt understand what you are saying but nintendo consoles are established to. They dont have third party support but they have stronger first party titles.. This gen if you look at the top 20 titles saleswise wii and ds titles from nintendo take a major share

And, why do you as a consumer, give a crap about this particular fact? Are you Reggie or Iwata? Am I missing something here? Anyhow, Wii got away with its success because it was new and innovative, since everyone and their granny bought one, but this business model isn't smart long-term when it comes to losing the support of so many major third parties. Nor is it good for the consumer who has to miss out on so many good games. Their first party didn't help them when PS1 and PS2 basically wiped their ass with the Gamecube and N64 either, by the way.

Software is very important, and no third party support creates a huge absence of games. There were dozens of good/great games last generation that were simply not available on the Wii. It's probably going to end up being a repeat again now because Nintendo decided to stay in the past.

Yeah, Mario is great. Metroid Prime was great. Zelda, well, TP and SS were okay. But five or ten first party games don't make a console. Especially when the competitors have dozens being released and provide a hell of a lot more choice.

 

[vitacola]

He doesn't design levels or characters

He's the Lead Designer for BF3: Armored Kill, not a level or character designer, a different thing altogether.

Lead Designers have to work with both the art AND the programming/development side of game production.

Ah, okay
But isn't he working more like an "ambassador" between the two worlds? Sometimes I am confused by all those fancy titles.

 

[Poimandres]

Does anybody here honestly thing nintendo would have been able to convince the hardcore crowd if they had a console that is equivalent to ps4 or 720 in terms of power or any third party for that matter? No they would have ignored it just as much. That market and that support is a written off position for nintendo they should not try to pursue something they will never achieve and should try to maintain whatever they have (casuals, kids and their own first party development resources)

If all the next gen consoles were roughly equivalent in power and services offered, I would DEFINITELY get the Nintendo console because they have the strongest first party offerings. Most "hardcore" gamers recognize things like Mario Galaxy and Zelda as truly great and desirable games.

Also, if it was easy to port games between three consoles do you truly believe that 3rd party developers would leave money on the table?

 

[Nirolak]

Ah, okay
But isn't he working more like an "ambassador" between the two worlds? Sometimes I am confused by all those fancy titles.

As a lead designer, he needs to know what will and won't work in terms of design with the platforms they are developing the game on.

Armored Kill for example has lots of vehicles and the largest maps in the franchise, so those are both technical limits he would have to check thoroughly with technical staff.

DICE is also a technology driven developer, so having deep technical knowledge across the staff is import for knowing what limits their games can and cannot push.

If he was a character artist on downloadable games, sure, there's a fair chance he won't know the ins and outs of the platforms he's working on, but he's a lead designer at one of the absolute top technology driven studios in the world.

 

[Bidermaier]

Nintendo made a console enough to run this-gen games and they didn't worry about next-gen that starts only next year and at a cost to devs.

Problem is Nintendo knows its hardware and develops games specificaly for it, so they won't have a problem; third-parties want their games ported with the less work=costs possible, so tweaking their games for this specific console are time and cost-consumers (see EA for example).

In this sense, and if Nintendo really wanted 3rd party to jump in from the start, than they should have made a more powerful console to deal with the ports... my view is that they don't really care about it as long as they keep selling their 1st party games. And they still make some of the best games every generation.

I think Nintendo really does not care about the thirds parties. But the problem here is that the third parties do not seem to care about themselves.

 

[orioto]

If all the next gen consoles were roughly equivalent in power and services offered, I would DEFINITELY get the Nintendo console because they have the strongest first party offerings. Most "hardcore" gamers recognize things like Mario Galaxy and Zelda as truly great and desirable games.

Also, if it was easy to port games between three consoles do you truly believe that 3rd party developers would leave money on the table?

That and there was the early release strength. This gen has been loooong, and people wants something new. If Nintendo just tried to convince people the WiiU was a good taste of the next gen, and that the next gen wouldn't make that huge difference (even if it wasn't true!), they would have had a chance at grabbing a part of the audience, maybe enough to create a good third party dynamic.

For that they needed just the power to output a clean ps3 game with modern shader (maybe they have it, nobody knows at this point), and and and, the fucking games ips to impress with it...

 

[Osiris]

As a lead designer, he needs to know what will and won't work in terms of design with the platforms they are developing the game on.

Armored Kill for example has lots of vehicles and the largest maps in the franchise, so those are both technical limits he would have to check thoroughly with technical staff.

DICE is also a technology driven developer, so having deep technical knowledge across the staff is import for knowing what limits their games can and cannot push.

If he was a character artist on downloadable games, sure, there's a fair chance he won't know the ins and outs of the platforms he's working on, but he's a lead designer at one of the absolute top technology driven studios in the world

Indeed.

And seeing as he started out through "gameplay design" (i.e. Gameplay mechanics, what's fun?) rather than either level/asset design or programming I'm quite impressed to see him in a lead role, we're talking about the one area of development that seems, initially at least, to be far less constrained by technical limitations than other areas of design obviously are. (I'm sure Bish could correct me on any mistake in that thinking though I'm sure )

He's obviously gained a very healthy respect for those limitations to advance from gameplay design to lead.

 

[scitek]

Despite Nintendo not knowing how to court third parties, they at least know how to make money, something most of those third parties aren't very adept at.

 

[kurosawa]

I think Nintendo really does not care about the thirds parties. But the problem here is that the third parties do not seem to care about themselves.

third parties think nintendo's secret is making "childish" games. so they try that. they make gimped versions of "grown-up" games directed towards kids, failing to understand that most of nintendo's kids are now 30+ years of age. they can't understand this dedication, because they really can't see what nintendo really has on its favour. it's not "childish" games... it's good games with great gameplay.

 

[RurouniZel]

Though, ironically, if either Microsoft or Sony ever drop out, that might be when we see Nintendo set their sights without reservations on the traditional, core oriented big leagues. Then there might be a point to them creating what many would see as a "pure" hardcore game console.

Yep. If Sony's financial problems continue and ended up going bankrupt in another 20 years or so, then I could see Nintendo considering a return to a purely "gamers" machine, as it were. Right now that space is too crowded and like with the Gamecube before it would largely be ignored by gamers like us because we have our PlayStations and Xboxs.

While I would have loved Nintendo to make a powerhouse machine, I fully admit the only reason I wish for it is because I knew once the machine came out and was inevitably underpowered for GAF's tastes there'd be no end to the "Nintendo sucks, Nintendo are cheap" mantra. As I was fine with the Wii's graphics, I'm fine with current gen as well. Fuck I was fine with a Sega Genesis, and still am. I honestly don't give a shit so long as the art direction is consistent and to my liking.

 

[NeonZ]

In this sense, and if Nintendo really wanted 3rd party to jump in from the start, than they should have made a more powerful console to deal with the ports... my view is that they don't really care about it as long as they keep selling their 1st party games. And they still make some of the best games every generation.

I think Nintendo could work by itself... but only if they could vastly increase their output. The Nintendo 64, Gamecube and even late Wii years showed pretty clearly that Nintendo's standard output just isn't enough to keep people around for long. Their games don't come out fast enough to sustain a console by themselves.

The Wii only lasted that long due to them making several games which were super hits (Wii Sports, Wii Fit, MKWii, NSMB), but they really can't bet on that happening again. Maybe they'll make more games in co-operation with third parties, like the upcoming Bandai Namco developed Smash Bros Wii U/3DS, but I don't think that would be enough to replace actual third party support...

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Not with 4x the RAM and a "Blu Ray" drive, no.

2010 it could have easily released at this price though.

Reinvest the R&D from the tablet into the console and this thing could have been $400 just like the 360.

 

[Shion]

Can I ask a quick couple questions? It's all I really care about:

Can the Wii U play everything that the PS3/360 can play at least as well or better (provided the devs don't have technical issues like the launch software has been showing)? I don't understand the whole "43% slower than PS3" RAM thing, so I just want this simple answer.

No.

A game with heavy use of CPU and RAM (Skyrim, for example) would run like shit on Wii U.

 

[Meelow]

I think Nintendo could work by itself... but only if they could vastly increase their output. The Nintendo 64, Gamecube and even late Wii years showed pretty clearly that Nintendo's standard output just isn't enough to keep people around for long. Their games don't come out fast enough to sustain a console by themselves.

The Wii only lasted that long due to them making several games which were super hits (Wii Sports, Wii Fit, MKWii, NSMB), but they really can't bet on that happening again. Maybe they'll make more games in co-operation with third parties, like the upcoming Bandai Namco developed Smash Bros Wii U/3DS, but I don't think that would be enough to replace actual third party support...

A lot of people seem to forget that if the Wii U doesn't get great AAA games from the western devs it won't be too bad because the Wii U can get the indie/eastern/and plus Ubisoft and Activision support, so it seems Nintendo might be in a much better position then the Wii was.

 

[Globox_82]

WiiU will do just fine. Nintendo will make money off it and release some great first party games. I am not interested in WiiU but I don't like this bashing, it reminds me of PS3 bashing. Give nintendo at least 2 years.

I don't think it will be as successful as Wii but it will make money for big N

 

[pieatorium]

A lot of people seem to forget that if the Wii U doesn't get great AAA games from the western devs it won't be too bad because the Wii U can get the indie/eastern/and plus Ubisoft and Activision support, so it seems Nintendo might be in a much better position then the Wii was.

you say no western support and then list 2 of the 3 biggest western publishers as supporting

 

[kurosawa]

WiiU will do just fine. Nintendo will make money off it and release some great first party games. I am not interested in WiiU but I don't like this bashing, it reminds me of PS3 bashing. Give nintendo at least 2 years.

I don't think it will be as successful as Wii but it will make money for big N

Spot on. As long as they keep on making great first party games, I couldn't care less.

 

[Raitosaito]

The issue here is it seems full HD is the same type of HD we got on these other platforms, only this time HDMI is there right out of the gate.

I don't like being one of those guys but we've been in an HD era for quite a few years now, and for Nintendo to only meet the baseline of this is nothing short of disappointing.

Someone took me seriously, so I guess some people still don't realize that this whole thread is a joke.

 

[Meelow]

you say no western support and then list 2 of the 3 biggest western publishers as supporting

Yeah, I mean Indie/Eastern with Ubisoft and Activision since we know Ubisoft is loving the Wii U and Activision is giving Nintendo big support right now.

I mean EA, THQ, etc that might not giving Nintendo massive support.

 

[BlackJace]

WiiU will do just fine. Nintendo will make money off it and release some great first party games. I am not interested in WiiU but I don't like this bashing, it reminds me of PS3 bashing. Give nintendo at least 2 years.

I don't think it will be as successful as Wii but it will make money for big N

+1

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I mean EA, THQ, etc that might not giving Nintendo massive support.

Well, THQ may end up supporting no one.

 

[Meelow]

Well, THQ may end up supporting no one.

That makes me really sad, I'm planning to work in the game industry and I don't want to see developers make bad mistakes like THQ made, hopefully THQ jumps back but if they don't...

 

[beast786]

WiiU will do just fine. Nintendo will make money off it and release some great first party games. I am not interested in WiiU but I don't like this bashing, it reminds me of PS3 bashing. Give nintendo at least 2 years.

I don't think it will be as successful as Wii but it will make money for big N

I just picked up wii u and this thread makes me sad. I bought wii and it collected dust until once a while when a first party title came that I was interested. The 3rd party was horrible and it didn't even have any eye candy so I can at least check that out.

it seems the wii u will be the same. I promised myself I won't pick up wii 2 unless Nintendo proves otherwise.

I hope we get good support because the game pad is much better than I expected.

 

[pieatorium]

Yeah, I mean Indie/Eastern with Ubisoft and Activision since we know Ubisoft is loving the Wii U and Activision is giving Nintendo big support right now.

I mean EA, THQ, etc that might not giving Nintendo massive support.

Ubi putsout alot of games everywhere, they even have Vita exclusives.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Anybody that thinks Nintendo don't want third parties are kidding there self .
It was something the talk about more than once and it's the main reason why a console that look like it was going to surpass PS2 die so fast .
MS listen to Epic and put more ram in 360 , Sony making there next console more dev friendly .
Nintendo don't want to go out of there way but want third parties to jump aboard
Maybe Wii U will sell like crazy and some might but i don't think people should expect much Nintendo will always be Nintendo .
It going to get ports the question is going to get the big games after 720\ PS4 comes out .

 

[Combichristoffersen]

That makes me really sad, I'm planning to work in the game industry and I don't want to see developers make bad mistakes like THQ made, hopefully THQ jumps back but if they don't...

I think the writing is on the wall for THQ, sadly. I loved Saints Row 3, and the first Darksiders was really good, but they've been mismanaged for years :/

 

[Freezie KO]

A lot of people seem to forget that if the Wii U doesn't get great AAA games from the western devs it won't be too bad because the Wii U can get the indie/eastern/and plus Ubisoft and Activision support, so it seems Nintendo might be in a much better position then the Wii was.

That was the argument last gen too. That devs who couldn't afford to go HD and wanted to develop for PS2 would develop for Wii. A few did, I guess. More went HD though. And some went HD and then shut down.

I went into a Wii U purchase expecting a situation similar to Wii, and that's what it's looking like. We just have to accept that this is Nintendo's new business model and move on.

If they're going to be two years ahead of the Sony/MS war, it might be nice to just have Nintendo release their own quirky consoles in between the Mega Power Arms Race generations.

 

[pieatorium]

That was the argument last gen too. That devs who couldn't afford to go HD and wanted to develop for PS2 would develop for Wii. A few did, I guess. More went HD though. And some went HD and then shut down.

I went into a Wii U purchase expecting a situation similar to Wii, and that's what it's looking like. We just have to accept that this is Nintendo's new business model and move on.

If they're going to be two years ahead of the Sony/MS war, it might be nice to just have Nintendo release their own quirky consoles in between the Mega Power Arms Race generations.

It wont be 2 years, probably a little les than 1

 

[Meelow]

Ubi putsout alot of games everywhere, they even have Vita exclusives.

And?

I think the writing is on the wall for THQ, sadly. I loved Saints Row 3, and the first Darksiders was really good, but they've been mismanaged for years :/

Yeah it's sad, I didn't even know until last year THQ was having problems, I thought they were fine financially.

That was the argument last gen too. That devs who couldn't afford to go HD and wanted to develop for PS2 would develop for Wii. A few did, I guess. More went HD though. And some went HD and then shut down.

I went into a Wii U purchase expecting a situation similar to Wii, and that's what it's looking like. We just have to accept that this is Nintendo's new business model and move on.

If they're going to be two years ahead of the Sony/MS war, it might be nice to just have Nintendo release their own quirky consoles in between the Mega Power Arms Race generations.

Yeah but the difference is the Wii U is HD, it might have closer architecture to the PS4/720, Nintendo is much bigger in Japan then they ever were and Nintendo made all the right moves for the Wii U to make it indie friendly, the Wii wasn't HD and after the 6th gen fully ended all the big developers only gave the PS2 small games, the Wii also had limited memory for the WiiWare and was pretty much a nightmare to develop on unlike the Wii U eShop, there is as big difference between the Wii and Wii U.

 

[pieatorium]

And?

They aren't doing anything for the WiiU that they don't do on other platforms.

 

[Meelow]

They aren't doing anything for the WiiU that they don't do on other platforms.

Ok?

I think Watch Dogs will tell it all, if there is a Wii U version in development that will show how serious Ubisoft is about the Wii U.

 

[Thoraxes]

*IF* DICE doesn't have WiiU, it mean no Frostbite 2.0 for WiiU which basically means next to no support from EA as they are moving all their projects to FB.

EA likes money. There will be Frostbite 2.0 on WiiU. Let's not get crazy.

I guess the only question is: When/Who will develop Frostbite 2.0?

 

[pieatorium]

Ok?

You said they were loving the WiiU, like it was some kind of rare phenomenon for Ubisoft to have luanch games for a new system.

 

[Nirolak]

Announced, unreleased Wii U games published by EA:
-Need for Speed: Most Wanted

Announced, unreleased games published by EA that have platforms:
-Crysis 3
-Dead Space 3
-Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel
-Sim City
-Command & Conquer
-Overstrike
-Tiger Woods PGA Tour 14

Am I missing anything?

 

[Meelow]

You said they were loving the WiiU, like it was some kind of rare phenomenon for Ubisoft to have luanch games for a new system.

I'm not saying it's rare, I'm saying they are giving the Wii U huge support and if there games sell well why should that change?

 

[Fugu]

Does anybody here honestly thing nintendo would have been able to convince the hardcore crowd if they had a console that is equivalent to ps4 or 720 in terms of power or any third party for that matter? No they would have ignored it just as much. That market and that support is a written off position for nintendo they should not try to pursue something they will never achieve and should try to maintain whatever they have (casuals, kids and their own first party development resources)

Because frankly if nintendo scares of casuals and kids due to an exorbitant price by going for high end consoles they will loose a lot more sales then the few complaining hardcore gamers that would never buy a nintendo console no matter how powerful it is or not. Same with third parties. No matter how hard they try sony and ms will be the primary platforms and nintendo will be distant third unless nintendo decides not to make first party games

This is impressive. Here, you've managed to write off a group because you think that they have already written off another group. It's staggering.

 

[Pooya]

I guess the only question is: When/Who will develop Frostbite 2.0?

If they decide to do it DICE engineers are certainly the best, most qualified.

next NFS is probably going to be on FB again, that should be on WiiU looking how MW is coming.

edit: Is Most Wanted WiiU official yet or not?

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Announced, unreleased Wii U games published by EA:
-Need for Speed: Most Wanted

Err, where was it announced outside of website releases?

 

[pieatorium]

I'm not saying it's rare, I'm saying they are giving the Wii U huge support and if there games sell well why should that change?

I don't see a reason to single out the WiiU though especially to use the word love,

 

[Poimandres]

Ok?

I think Watch Dogs will tell it all, if there is a Wii U version in development that will show how serious Ubisoft is about the Wii U.

I don't think Watch Dogs will mean too much, because it's definitely coming for PS3/360 as well. When developers start making big titles for the PS4/720 without PS3/360 versions... that will be the test of Wii U support.

 

[Meelow]

I don't see a reason to single out the WiiU though especially to use the word love,

I didn't mean it like that, I mean how much exclusive games they gave the Wii U, they are supporting the Wii U much more then the other western developers (excluded Activision).

I don't think Watch Dogs will mean too much, because it's definitely coming for PS3/360 as well. When developers start making big titles for the PS4/720 without PS3/360 versions... that will be the test of Wii U support.

I agree, but for some reason I have a few doubt in my mind that Watch Dogs is coming to PS3/360, it's just the way Ubisoft confirmed it and how they looked unsure when they confirmed it, but that's just my opinion, I'm probably wrong.

I mean Watch Dogs coming to PS4/720.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Has SC:Blacklist been announced yet?

 

[Pooya]

Has SC:Blacklist been announced yet?

no

 

[pieatorium]

I didn't mean it like that, I mean how much exclusive games they gave the Wii U, they are supporting the Wii U much more then the other western developers (excluded Activision).

Like I already said they are doing the same with Vita, best third party western dev support there too

 

[velvet_nitemare]

You are dreaming if you think WatchDogs isn't. Oming to PS360. Those platforms are way more likely to get it than Wii U.

 

[Skyfireblaze]

Yep. If Sony's financial problems continue and ended up going bankrupt in another 20 years or so, then I could see Nintendo considering a return to a purely "gamers" machine, as it were. Right now that space is too crowded and like with the Gamecube before it would largely be ignored by gamers like us because we have our PlayStations and Xboxs.

While I would have loved Nintendo to make a powerhouse machine, I fully admit the only reason I wish for it is because I knew once the machine came out and was inevitably underpowered for GAF's tastes there'd be no end to the "Nintendo sucks, Nintendo are cheap" mantra. As I was fine with the Wii's graphics, I'm fine with current gen as well. Fuck I was fine with a Sega Genesis, and still am. I honestly don't give a shit so long as the art direction is consistent and to my liking.

Lets be friends! I totally think the same way

Well to contribute to the topic, since I'm not terribly knowledgeable about development-processes and hardware itself I might appear very stupid with that question and I'm sure it has been asked before though from what I read the Wii U has much more "standardized technology" than the Wii even though it lacks raw power so wouldn't it be possible to port PS4/720 games in the same way I can still run BF3 on a Dual-Core CPU with a 4770 and it just wouldn't look pretty but would be playable?

I understand that DICE and the Metro people probably aren't happy with the Wii U since they might need to cut the numbers of players in multiplayer and have other shortcomings with their games and I also understand that porting games to the Wii was a sheer impossible task thanks to the vastly different architecture and setup though shouldn't Wii U (down)porting be a much smaller effort now compared to then and this time actually turn out profitable for publishers when they add Wii U game sales to the other two platforms?

I don't want to troll, these things just really make me curious

 

[ozfunghi]

Announced, unreleased Wii U games published by EA:
-Need for Speed: Most Wanted

Announced, unreleased games published by EA that have platforms:
-Crysis 3
-Dead Space 3
-Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel
-Sim City
-Command & Conquer
-Overstrike
-Tiger Woods PGA Tour 14

Am I missing anything?

I'm thinking... yes. You are missing something. It's been fairly obvious something happened between E3 2011 and E3 2012.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I'm thinking... yes. You are missing something. It's been fairly obvious something happened between E3 2011 and E3 2012.

Are you referring to Nintendo supposedly shitcanning EA's proposal to have Origin on Wii U?