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[neoanarch]

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G vs C

 

[TheD]

Just take the SoC image and go from there. The CPU takes up roughly 37-40% of the die shot (no memory I/O as well since that was always on the GPU), and we know the die is about 168mm^2.

http://www.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/archive22/HC22.23.215-1-Jensen-XBox360.pdf

The XeCPU ends up around 65mm^2 give or take.

I went looking but could not find a die shot at the time, so I used some math.

If the Xenon is 65mm squared then the WiiU CPU could fit just about half the transistors, Looks like it could be 1 core of approx the same size?

Keep in mind that a non integrated CPU will also need an external interface (like a FSB PHY), something the SOC does not have (only the FSB block and FSBR).

 

[lightchris]

Not scaling linearly does not do mean much for the Wii U CPU (it would mean the 360 CPU is even bigger).

Not as much if the CPU is originally designed for a 45nm process.

Broadway is not a fast CPU at all, it is nearly the same as the CPUs in the Apple G3 macs.
They did not stand any chance at all vs the P4, yet alone a CPU (xenon) that is 1.5x as powerful as it.

From what I've heard, Xenon has less IPC than P4. Makes sense to me, because even though P4 had a lot of problems (especially due to the overly long pipleine), it's at least capable of OoOE. I'd rate Broadways IPC to be higher than Xenons by a fair amount.

 

[AlStrong]

I went looking but could not find a die shot at the time, so I used some math.

Are you keeping in mind that a non integrated CPU will also need an external interface (like a FSB PHY), something the SOC does not have (only the FSB block and FSBR).

If you want to get pedantic about it, then just add 5%. The rest is all practically there. Ultimately, the thing is closer to twice the size of WiiU CPU.

 

[Kenka]

OK, so I will list all certain points regarding the CPU, not extrapolating anything:

• At the same process node (45 nm), the CPU in the WiiU occupies twice (thrice?*) less space than the one in the 360. So it is certain that there will be less transistors in the former. Correct assumption so far?
  
• Also, the clock frequency might be lower, that's another factor that reduces the WiiU CPU output in comparison with the X360's, also correct?
  
• Finally, we know that the WiiU is BC with the Wii, so that means all its components (CPU included) must emulate the Wii system, which gives another condition for the CPU to fulfill.

Unknown parameters are the architecture (maybe not in light of the line above), instruction set and the memory cache of the WiiU CPU. Can these parameters eventually give the edge to WiiU, if they are used correctly? Have I missed any other? I just want to be able to navigate through all future posts in these threads, so I know who is saying something relevant, and who isn't.


*edit: the WiiU CPU might take as much as space as one-third of the X360's (though not specified if the dude quoted is talking about pre- or post-Xbox Slim silicon.

 

[Log4Girlz]

OK, so I will list all certain points regarding the CPU, not extrapolating anything:

• At the same process node (45 nm), the CPU in the WiiU occupies twice less space than the one in the 360. So it is certain that there will be less transistors in the former. Correct assumption so far?
  
• Also, the clock frequency might be lower, that's another factor that reduces the WiiU CPU output in comparison with the X360's, also correct?
  
• Finally, we know that the WiiU is BC with the Wii, so that means all its components (CPU included) must emulate the Wii system, which gives another condition for the CPU to fulfill.

Unknown parameters are the architecture (maybe not in light of the line above), instruction set and the memory cache of the WiiU CPU. Can these parameters eventually give the edge to WiiU, if they are used correctly? Have I missed any other? I just want to be able to navigate through all future posts in these threads, so I know who is saying something relevant, and who isn't.

There will be kinds of code which will run faster on the Wii U CPU, but on a whole, I think it is safe to describe it as anemic.

 

[TheD]

Just look at the die shots between the original and the new one, and tell me how much is different aside from the additional FSB replacement. The whole thing is practically there. If you want to get pedantic about it, then just add 5%.

Well we did lose a lot of size from 65nm to your estimates of it at 45nm.

 

[Quinton McLeod]

Reading this thread feel like I've gone back in time to 2006/7 with PS3/Sony fans in exactly the same denial mode when sub-par ports of common games were being released because of complexities in its architecture. Lots of talk about SPE's acting as GPGPU-like parts and feeding general purpose code onto them.

The Wii-U is going to get sub-par ports of multi-platform games while PS3/360 are out, that is for sure, once they are both EOL'd it is likely that third parties will migrate to Orbis/Durango and kill current gen development, if Wii-U does not have the userbase for non-Nintendo games, it is likely that it will be dead for third parties. However, just like PS3 got the best looking games of the generation via strong first party development, Wii-U will also get great looking games via Nintendo's internal studios who will use the weird architecture to it's fullest.

To me it means that instead of becoming more third party friendly, Nintendo are set to become more reliant on first party games, the opposite of what was intended with Wii-U. All it would have taken is $10 more on the CPU and $5 more on the RAM. For less than $20 per unit Nintendo have basically sabotaged healthy third party relations. The difference between Nintendo and Sony (who were in the same position in 2006) is that Sony sent out first party developers and engineers to third parties to help them get to grips with PS3's oddball architecture, sometimes that meant they wound up helping the 360 version of the game as well, but they still did it and ensured that PS3 received all major third party games, they even got previously exclusive games ported like Bioshock and Mass Effect. I'm not sure that Nintendo will take the same steps to ensure third party support.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.
It's like your brains stop recording data after a certain date. Like an old beat up dvr.

Did you all forget the sheer number of games announced for this year on the WiiU? Did you all forget when Reggie said they've got so many games in the pipeline that they're already planning for the holiday of 2013? Did you forget about Japan??

Do you guys honestly think 3rd parties didn't already have access to the hardware? Why would they suddenly abandon the WiiU after the public performs a teardown?


Did you guys forget that Crytek was able to get Crysis 3 running on the WiiU with settings set to high in just a short while? Are you guys forgetting the overwhelming positive responses 3rd parties have been giving the WiiU? What about the fact that the eShop is ultra friendly to indie devs? What about the Unity engine and the games that come with that? Are you people serious when you're telling me 3rd party support is in trouble?

Your basing Nintendo's doom off of information that isn't accurate nor complete. You're ignoring devs who have said positive things and ignoring or refusing evidence which proves the contrary of your claims. Hell, you're even ignoring your own eyes. I've never seen so much blind fanboyism in my life. This is scary as hell!

 

[Waaghals]

Crysis 3 isn't coming to WiiU as far as I remember.
Crytek said it wasn't worth the effort.

I haven't heard anything about Cryengine 3 running on WiiU, though I'm not going to say that it can't.


Edit: Cevat Yerli said it was running "Beautifully" earlier this year, but crysis 3 is not in development.

strange, if the engine was running great on the system....

 

[Captain Smoker]

Crysis 3 isn't coming to WiiU as far as I remember.
Crytek said it wasn't worth the effort.

I haven't heard anything about Cryengine 3 running on WiiU, though I'm not going to say that it can't.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/20/crytek-cryengine-3-beautiful-on-wii-u

Crytek: CryEngine 3 'Beautiful' on Wii U

 

[AlStrong]

Well we did lose a lot of size from 65nm to your estimates of it at 45nm.

All it means is that the 65nm scaling wasn't great (clearly). They probably had to spend a lot more time with the 45nm re-design. edit: physical I/O certainly plays a role too (Cell & Broadway in particular). The Phys FSB on Xenon though is somewhat smaller than any of the memory I/Os on most other designs though; you can see that the CPU cores themselves become significantly thinner in one dimension.

edit:

They also lost about 25M transistors in the migration for the XCGPU (372M) vs CPU + GPU (165M+232M). There's a lot more to just shrinking the chip. Even G70 lost about 25M transistors for the 90nm shrink (G71) after "optimizations"; hitting the same clocks can be done with fewer transistors at smaller dimensions for example (or at the same node, you spend more transistors to hit higher clocks).

 

[Diffense]

Is it confirmed that the Wii GPU has compute capabilities? It's rather likely but I haven't seen anything definite.

Part of me hopes they'd gone for a higher spec but I'm certain the costs and design constraints associated with the gamepad played a role in the decisions they made. After having played the Wii U, I think the gamepad is a nice addition. It might sound gimmicky but it feels very natural interacting with a home console that way. I don't want to go back to pushing an analog stick in order to select letters to type or reaching for a separate keyboard. Also, the integration of TV control gives the whole package a very "finished" feeling. Just grab the Gamepad from the cradle and you're able to turn on every device you need. The TV remote feature is also a clever way to give everyone a reason to hold the Wii U pad. Non-gamers often find standard controllers intimidating. As a child, I've had family members refuse to touch them. With the Wiimote's similarity to TV remote, Nintendo overcame that barrier. I think the Wii U Gamepad's similarity to the popular phones, tablets and ebook readers may have a similar effect. However it has the advantage over the Wiimote of being a fully featured controller with enough buttons.

Anyway, that was a huge digression. My concerns are about the relative power of Wii U not its absolute capabilities. It'll be plenty powerful for great games but hopefully it won't be left in the dust by PS++ and XBox++ so it'll get ports of 3rd party games. Whether the GPU has compute capabilties is actually relevant IMO. Yes, the GPU is not suitable for all kinds of computation but there are certain heavy non-graphical calculations than can be reasonably offloaded to the GPU. Any kind of repetetive calculation on data sets will be right at home on the GPU. Physics comes to mind. But it would be a pretty big job to rewrite a physics engine using openCL so that it performs properly on the Wii U when that code performs well on the XBOx/PS CPUs. So if those are the facts, I can understand why a developer with limited resources would say that the Wii U CPU is weak and can't run his game properly as it is.

Actually, it seems very much like Nintendo to say: "The GPU can handle all these calculations so we don't need a very powerful CPU. Let's save transistors, power, and money". But the software engineering will have to catch up in order to take full advantage of the system.

 

[Psychotext]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/20/crytek-cryengine-3-beautiful-on-wii-u

Crytek: CryEngine 3 'Beautiful' on Wii U

"Runs beautifully..." we just need to work out how to get physics in there as we seem to have run out of juice on the CPU.

 

[Skyfireblaze]

You're a good example to what I've been saying for awhile.

People appear to like comparing consoles to PCs and you just can't.

1) PCs have a lot of overhead. The OS, other applications, the API and etc. So, it takes beefier specs to get some serious visuals on a PC. Plus, not every PC is the same, so developers have to develop software that would work for most PCs and not just one universal piece of hardware.

2) Consoles are specifically designed for games. So, their architecture is slightly different than a PC. Plus, there isn't as much overhead. Also, since consoles are the same among everyone who buys one, developers can use tricks which are guaranteed to work with every console (See Halo 4 for example). Not only that, but developers have direct access to the hardware which could push out even better visuals.

Don't compare your desktop PC to a console. You'll just confuse yourself.



That's called BS.
The GPU is capable of instructions commonly done on the CPU. This alleviates a lot of work from the CPU. So, if you look at it, it's like running a quad core APU. So, taking players away from multiplayer or doing stupid stuff like that is unnecessary.

Also, it's not impossible to port games from 7-6 year old hardware to something more modern. It's just that developers have been so used to offloading a ton of crap to the CPU and are totally new to programming to a GPGPU. Now, I believe the CPU in the WiiU is slow. However, I believe it was intentional to get developers to program for the much superior GPGPU. However, developers get lazy and don't want to do it. They want to simply ignore the GPGPU and simply copy and paste their games to the WiiU for a quick buck.

First of all thanks for replying and second, I know that a Console to PC comparison is always flawed and that you can't just expect a linearity in scaling between different consoles just like it would scale on a PC just by turning settings and features down I tried to make a different point though I guess me being tired when I wrote what I did I missed my own point a bit but so please let me rephrase what I actually tried to ask:

I know that porting to the Wii from the PS3/360 was a monumental task due to the sheer difference in design and raw power but that it could be done with a great investment in time and possibly money, see Call of Duty for Wii and of course not many publishers and developers bothered with completely recoding their games due to them being unsure if their investment is going to be returned by consumers.

So all I wondered is that if it might be easier for 3rd-party developers to port games from the PS4/720 to the Wii U that technically only excel in the graphics area than it was for PS3/360 to Wii. And I honestly would be stunned if 3rd-parties wouldn't want to get as much games as they can on the Wii U given the commercial success of the Wii if, and only if, the effort wouldn't outweight the possible profit gained. Of course we don't even know what kind of hardware the PS4/720 will have yet for sure but that's exactly why I asked about the Wii U having a more "standardized" technology.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

So all I wondered is that if it might be easier for 3rd-party developers to port games from the PS4/720 to the Wii U that technically only excel in the graphics area than it was for PS3/360 to Wii. Of course we don't even know what kind of hardware the PS4/720 will have yet for sure but that's exactly why I asked about the Wii U having a more "standardized" technology.

Having a more standardised technical design is great, but if both Sony and Microsoft create significantly more powerful machines then there is a problem. Efficiency.

Considering the combined install base of the Xbox 360 and PS3, will it be worth a developers time to port a game if they have trouble running it on the Wii U hardware?

 

[AlStrong]

• At the same process node (45 nm), the CPU in the WiiU occupies twice (thrice?*) less space than the one in the 360. So it is certain that there will be less transistors in the former. Correct assumption so far?
  
  
  *edit: the WiiU CPU might take as much as space as one-third of the X360's (though not specified if the dude quoted is talking about pre- or post-Xbox Slim silicon.
  

• 
  
  He's talking about the Slim. Needs clarification, but I think he meant 1 core + L2 (that's half of the 360 CPU) vs WiiU CPU, or just not counting L2 in either CPU (eDRAM is 2-4x denser than SRAM, so they might have similar space requirements after overhead)?
  
  Anyways, there's going to be different transistor densities across the chip anyway (cache is denser than logic, and then eDRAM is also denser than SRAM cache). So it'd be somewhat meaningless to look at transistor count. There's also going to be a lot of transistors that go towards longer pipeline stages to even allow high clocks as well.
  
  It's fun to look at from a high level, but there's only so much you can gain from looking at a photo i.e. can't really judge performance... much.

 

[Kenka]

He's talking about the Slim. Needs clarification, but I think he meant 1 core + L2 (that's half of the 360 CPU) vs WiiU CPU, or just not counting L2 in either CPU (eDRAM is 2-4x denser than SRAM, so they might have similar space requirements after overhead)?

Anyways, there's going to be different transistor densities across the chip anyway (cache is denser than logic, and then eDRAM is also denser than SRAM cache). So it'd be somewhat meaningless to look at transistor count. There's also going to be a lot of transistors that go towards longer pipeline stages to even allow high clocks as well.

It's a fun to look at from a high level, but there's only so much you can gain from looking at a photo i.e. can't really judge performance... much.

Thank you! I'm off digging the subject further.

 

[AzaK]

So the GPU is actually weaker than 360/PS3?

Wow Nintendo. :/

Where the hell did you get that from?

 

[chertipros]

Crysis 3 isn't coming to WiiU as far as I remember.
Crytek said it wasn't worth the effort.

I haven't heard anything about Cryengine 3 running on WiiU, though I'm not going to say that it can't.


Edit: Cevat Yerli said it was running "Beautifully" earlier this year, but crysis 3 is not in development.

strange, if the engine was running great on the system....

wouldn't EA be in charge of deciding whether or not they should port crysis to the wii u?

 

[cRIPticon]

I consider it buried at this point. Metro devs are extremely technical and have a hell of a lot more weight than "random Dynasty Warriors dev on twitter".

Silliest post of this thread.

 

[extralite]

My 360 broke just months after the 3 years RROD warranty MS gave customers because their hardware was admittedly misdesigned. And I didn't even play it much. My PS3 also broke after around 3 years, YLOD. Sony doesn't even give a longer warranty.

My Wii didn't break, no other of my consoles ever broke completely and the ones that partially did like DC (bad drive) or NES (dirty connectors) and SNES (one stereo audio channel is missing) did so years after their usual 5 years lifetime.

I take it the Wii U won't break and that's because it's the only system powered according to what it should be at this time. HD consoles were overpowered, Wii was underpowered, Wii U is right for now.

I'm really looking forward to buying a PC called PS4 that will break halfway into its lifetime (which is 6, not 10 years). This misdesigned hardware shit is anti-consumer and what Nintendo really needs to learn from Sony is how to make an actual account system and how not to restrict imports.

I'm missing the days when all this shit was limited to PC gaming. Keep your power hungry stuff off consoles please.

 

[Sentenza]

Silliest post of this thread.

Not really.

 

[Nirolak]

wouldn't EA be in charge of deciding whether or not they should port crysis to the wii u?

Kind of.

Crytek could technically do it with their own money since they own the IP and can pick distribution methods, but EA has only funded them for the other three.

 

[Vagabundo]

I'm missing the days when all this shit was limited to PC gaming. Keep your power hungry stuff off consoles please.

I'm with you on this. I miss the days of near instant gaming on consoles, of being able to leave them on all the time, and barely a whisper out of them. And they would last forever.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Did you all forget the sheer number of games announced for this year on the WiiU? Did you all forget when Reggie said they've got so many games in the pipeline that they're already planning for the holiday of 2013? Did you forget about Japan??

look at all those wiiU games

 

[Perkel]

I'm with you on this. I miss the days of near instant gaming on consoles, of being able to leave them on all the time, and barely a whisper out of them. And they would last forever.

I miss those days when humans used round stone as whell, it lasted forever.

New things tend to be complicated.

 

[Sentenza]

It's hardly 'settling for mediocrity'. The Wii U is modern tech - it's just that the tech is focused on the pad stuff, rather than graphical horsepower.

Completely misplaced, then.

EDIT: Damn, that was an old post. Not sure how I stumbled upon it.

 

[BruiserBear]

I miss those days when humans used round stone as whell, it lasted forever.

New things tend to be complicated.

lol

 

[RedSwirl]

Crysis 3 isn't coming to WiiU as far as I remember.
Crytek said it wasn't worth the effort.

I haven't heard anything about Cryengine 3 running on WiiU, though I'm not going to say that it can't.


Edit: Cevat Yerli said it was running "Beautifully" earlier this year, but crysis 3 is not in development.

strange, if the engine was running great on the system....

They said they were doing something on Wii U, or working with Nintendo somehow. They just didn't specify. The only detail we know is that it ain't Crysis 3. Homefront 2 (being developed at Crytek UK) was originally slated to have a Wii U version but that disappeared in listings.

 

[Van Owen]

Maybe things were running better on early dev kits that were PPC with higher clocks than 360, then Nintendo gave them the final enhanced Wii CPU with low clocks.

 

[Oppo]

Did you all forget the sheer number of games announced for this year on the WiiU? Did you all forget when Reggie said they've got so many games in the pipeline that they're already planning for the holiday of 2013? Did you forget about Japan??

Not all of us keep tabs on every single little bit of Wii U news, but I'm sure we'd love it if you'd post some links to back this up, so we can see what you are talking about. I have seen the games list and it is not impressive at all, so please, educate me. It is possible that I missed some huge announcement.

Do you guys honestly think 3rd parties didn't already have access to the hardware? Why would they suddenly abandon the WiiU after the public performs a teardown?

Of course not, you're right that would be unreasonable. And silly.

Did you guys forget that Crytek was able to get Crysis 3 running on the WiiU with settings set to high in just a short while? Are you guys forgetting the overwhelming positive responses 3rd parties have been giving the WiiU? What about the fact that the eShop is ultra friendly to indie devs? What about the Unity engine and the games that come with that? Are you people serious when you're telling me 3rd party support is in trouble?

In order...

- I'd love to see the Crytek quote/source, if you could?

- I've seen a overwhelmingly lukewarm-to-tepid response to the Wii U across the board personally; devs are usually effusive at launch even when there's doubt. Not so this time.

- I do not believe for a single second that Nintendo is being "ultra friendly to indie devs". I mean that a total about-face from how they've been historically. Plus dev kids cost a fortune, and use an exotic and unfamiliar toolchain. Sorry I think this is baseless speculation on your part. Happy to be proven wrong, but I can't see how you could make a case for indie Wii U development vs PC or iOS/Android.

- Unity games are available everywhere including iOS and Android.

- Totally.

Your basing Nintendo's doom off of information that isn't accurate nor complete. You're ignoring devs who have said positive things and ignoring or refusing evidence which proves the contrary of your claims. Hell, you're even ignoring your own eyes. I've never seen so much blind fanboyism in my life. This is scary as hell!

Honestly, that is sort of my first reaction to your posts. I think you should step back, apply Occam's Razor, and maybe just accept that every bit of evidence we have points to a slowish CPU in the Wii U. It's not the end of the world.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I also want to know what the smaller chip is on the MCM. Anandtech states off chip memory, but that was just an assumption. They even question marked it.

Serial EEPROM? Hollywood had it. I'm surprised myself that nobody can make a more solid guess. Nintendo has said themselves that the eDRAM is on-chip. It's definitely not RAM.

 

[KageMaru]

It's fun to look at from a high level, but there's only so much you can gain from looking at a photo i.e. can't really judge performance... much.

Good job Al, now you're going to give a certain devoted group false hope that these developers are indeed clueless and the CPU packs a lot more power than we're led to believe. =p

 

[lwilliams3]

Maybe things were running better on early dev kits that were PPC with higher clocks than 360, then Nintendo gave them the final enhanced Wii CPU with low clocks.

But was some talks about that in previous threads, but according to Lherre the system was not downgraded.

It exist more than 3 devkits models (or upgrades) on wii U.

The first ones were really "gimped" in performance, but I think V3-4-5 ... are nearly "the same", not big changes if I remember correctly.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

look at all those wiiU games

Straight ether, damn

 

[Apophis2036]

look at all those wiiU games

NSMB U, Nintendo Land, ZombiU, Pikmin 3, Lego City Undercover, Wonderful 101, Wario Ware, Rayman Legends, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate are all EXCLUSIVES in the first 4.5 months of the launch window.

Bayonetta 2 later in 2013.

Already rumours of RE6, NFS MW, Tomb Raider, Splinter Cell, and Watch Dogs multi platforms aswell.

Yeah you are right, WiiU has no games in 2013... Muppet.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

NSMB U, Nintendo Land, ZombiU, Pikmin 3, Lego City Undercover, Wonderful 101, Wario Ware, Rayman Legends, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate are all EXCLUSIVES in the first 4.5 months of the launch window.

Bayonetta 2 later in 2013.

Already rumours of RE6, NFS MW, Tomb Raider, Splinter Cell, and Watch Dogs multi platforms aswell.

Yeah you are right, WiiU has no games in 2013... Muppet.

Calm young one.

Calm.

List wars are only fun until someone loses a testicle.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Calm young one.

Calm.

List wars are only fun until someone loses a testicle.

I think you mean list wars aren't fun until someone gets

Spoiler

butt

hurt

 

[Like the hat?]

Wasn't out of order processing supposed to make up for lower clock speeds or something? I remember reading that on gaf before. (Sorry, I asked this before but I forget what thread and when, and never saw a response. I'm pretty tech illiterate)

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

NSMB U, Nintendo Land, ZombiU, Pikmin 3, Lego City Undercover, Wonderful 101, Wario Ware, Rayman Legends, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate are all EXCLUSIVES in the first 4.5 months of the launch window.

Bayonetta 2 later in 2013.

Already rumours of RE6, NFS MW, Tomb Raider, Splinter Cell, and Watch Dogs multi platforms aswell.

So, people were talking about 2013 and you:
-added 3 2012 launch games
-added 5 games of which we only have "proof" about 2 (nfs and sc)

Great way to prove your argument.

Yeah you are right, WiiU has no games in 2013... Muppet.

i don't know how long you're gonna last here, i'm not the first one in this thread that you've insulted. well, that's what ignore lists are for i guess. i have no time for children.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I think you mean list wars aren't fun until someone gets

Spoiler

butt

hurt

I like saying testicles though.

i don't know how long you're gonna last here, i'm not the first one in this thread that you've insulted. well, that's what ignore lists are for i guess. i have no time for children.

Don't start that deadly slope.

Defeat foes through civility and kindness. But always be aware of the opinions of those that piss you off... to a degree. If you're going to ignore someone do it for something important.

Misogyny, bigotry, just being a right wanker.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Calm young one.

Calm.

List wars are only fun until someone loses a testicle.

I think it's a decent point. Well, unwittingly anyway.

If Nintendo can keep getting exclusives (paid or not), they might be able to keep interest in the system going for it's life span. One thing with the Wii is that because it was non-HD, it looked like shit (JAGGIES EVERYWHERE) even with aesthetically great games.

Won't be a problem with the U.

But Nintendo will have to get exclusives for their system for the next 5 or 6 years to keep people from trading it in. Can they do it? Dunno.

I think Nintendo should try to get a moba on it's system as well. Also, they should port some of the Wii's best games in HD (Xenoblade, Last Story, Super Mario Galaxy collection, Metroid collection, etc) to fill in the dead seasons.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I think it's a decent point. Well, unwittingly anyway.

If Nintendo can keep getting exclusives (paid or not), they might be able to keep interest in the system going for it's life span. One thing with the Wii is that because it was non-HD, it looked like shit (JAGGIES EVERYWHERE) even with aesthetically great games.

Won't be a problem with the U.

But Nintendo will have to get exclusives for their system for the next 5 or 6 years to keep people from trading it in. Can they do it? Dunno.

I think Nintendo should try to get a moba on it's system as well. Also, they should port some of the Wii's best games in HD (Xenoblade, Last Story, Super Mario Galaxy collection, Metroid collection, etc) to fill in the dead seasons.

It's really a bad point because most of those 2013 games are rumored.

Nothing to make a list or immediately buy a system over.

 

[squidyj]

NSMB U, Nintendo Land, ZombiU, Pikmin 3, Lego City Undercover, Wonderful 101, Wario Ware, Rayman Legends, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate are all EXCLUSIVES in the first 4.5 months of the launch window.

Bayonetta 2 later in 2013.

Already rumours of RE6, NFS MW, Tomb Raider, Splinter Cell, and Watch Dogs multi platforms aswell.

Yeah you are right, WiiU has no games in 2013... Muppet.

apophis u so crazy.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

apophis u so crazy.

He's an asteroid.

 

[vazel]

OMG at this thread. Haha.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

look at all those wiiU games

Jesus.

Thats a FAR bigger problem than a weak CPU or slow RAM.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Jesus.

Thats a FAR bigger problem than a weak CPU or slow RAM.

Potentially product of actually.

 

[Mindlog]

look at all those wiiU games

Holy crap, they're making a Lost Planet 3.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

NSMB U, Nintendo Land, ZombiU, Pikmin 3, Lego City Undercover, Wonderful 101, Wario Ware, Rayman Legends, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate are all EXCLUSIVES in the first 4.5 months of the launch window.

Bayonetta 2 later in 2013.

Nintendo published games are exclusive to a Nintendo console? Stop the presses!

Already rumours of RE6, NFS MW, Tomb Raider, Splinter Cell, and Watch Dogs multi platforms aswell.

Don't forget Secret Wii U Game. It's about as credible as anything else on this list.

Yeah you are right, WiiU has no games in 2013... Muppet.

Pretty sure the discussion was what's currently announced for the future, not some launch day games and a bunch of unannounced ports for games that would be already out for 6+ months on other systems anyways.